I thought of going Bant as well but, at least from my limited testing, Path isn't as necessary as you'd think. Aside from Goyf there isn't really anything we care about that Bolt doesn't kill. Wurmcoil and Eldrazis, sure, but we should have Cryptic mana by then. Also, as another poster said, this deck doesn't want to ramp it's opponents if it doesn't have to.
Also like other posters, I hate the Vapor Snags. Hated them looking at the list, still hate them after testing. I'm going to be testing Forked Bolt, I think it's very well-positioned and under-utilized, but does anyone else have any ideas? Also I really want to squeeze the fourth Goyf in somewhere, but I don't know what to cut based on my limited testing. Any advice would be great. Last but not least there is still a lot of Tron in my meta, the best thing I can think of for it is Sowing Salt, any other ideas? Maybe cheaper targeted LD is better, the only thing that really scares me in the MU is an active Eye of Ugin.
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Standard: Humanimator
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
I thought of going Bant as well but, at least from my limited testing, Path isn't as necessary as you'd think. Aside from Goyf there isn't really anything we care about that Bolt doesn't kill. Wurmcoil and Eldrazis, sure, but we should have Cryptic mana by then. Also, as another poster said, this deck doesn't want to ramp it's opponents if it doesn't have to.
Also like other posters, I hate the Vapor Snags. Hated them looking at the list, still hate them after testing. I'm going to be testing Forked Bolt, I think it's very well-positioned and under-utilized, but does anyone else have any ideas? Also I really want to squeeze the fourth Goyf in somewhere, but I don't know what to cut based on my limited testing. Any advice would be great. Last but not least there is still a lot of Tron in my meta, the best thing I can think of for it is Sowing Salt, any other ideas? Maybe cheaper targeted LD is better, the only thing that really scares me in the MU is an active Eye of Ugin.
Path is highly relevant against a lot of cards in the format that Bolt fails against. Just going through matchups...
Vs. Jund- Kills Kitchen Finks (without recursion) and Tarmogoyf Vs. Birthing Pod- Kills Restoration Angel, Kitchen Finks, Murderous Redcap Vs. RG Tron - Kills Wurmcoil Engine, Ulamog Vs. UW tron - Kills Elesh Norn, Wurmcoil Engine, Ulamog, Iona (if they don't name white) Vs. UW restoration Control - Kills Restoration Angel (duh) and Baneslayer Angel (post board) vs. Zoo - Kills off Goyf, Knight of the Reliquary, anything else Vs. affinity - Kills Master of etherium, or any card pumped by ravager counters.
And this is more or less just the "main" matchups, not counting less common decks like Doran and company. Bolt is great, and it's nice that it can dome your opponent, but Path definitely has a lot of highly important relevant matchups where you would much rather have it than bolt.
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Find me online - I'm on Cockatrice * Tag - Badd B - Or on MTGO - Tag - Cbus05
Yeah I did overlook Angel (don't know how, I play Pod :S) but the rest (after Angel, Goyf and Tron dudes) really either aren't that important or don't show up often enough. Certainly Path is better when comparing just the cards, but the SB options red gives make it more than worth it imo.
I tested Forked Bolt over Snags and it was actually pretty sweet, against Affinity, Pod, Jund and UW to some extent it was very good. Obviously not exciting against Tron but that's fine. Still not sure what to cut for the fourth Goyf, but I'm sure I want it.
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Standard: Humanimator
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
While this deck not only seems cool and fun to play, my biggest concern is the storm matchup. This deck seems like it folds to storm pretty badly. What do you guys do?
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Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
We play a ton of counterspells + Clique, Storm really doesn't seem that scary (though it's a MU I haven't played yet). Post-board we have a ton more counterspells including Pierce and have grave hate if you want it. The matchups that scare me at all are actually the very fast creature decks like UWR and Zoo.
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Standard: Humanimator
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
So I've assembled about 90% of the list (read everything but goyf). I can't really justify getting goyfs just yet, especially since I'm pretty sure that he will be reprinted somehow in the future.
I've been looking through for budget options and I've come up with 2, Thornweald Archer and Talara's Battalion. Obviously they aren't best but they seem to fulfill similar options to goyf and hopefully don't hamper play too much. The Archer is a perfect blocker especially for vialing in, and can still apply as much pressure as witness and snapcaster. Talara's Battalion is as big as goyf is normally, but in this type of deck its restricted to being vialed in almost exclusively. Still trample is nice and its a big body.
Thoughts? I know budget discussion isnt really what's needed for a developing deck like this but there is a local modern tourney coming up that I'd like to prepare for.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
If I was going budget Id choose something like Sphinx of Jwar Isle. He flies, he peeks he has shroud. Nice budget control finisher.
No one seems to like vapor snag but I love them. It saves guys from removal, and can help rebuy scm/restoration angels/eternal witness etb effetcs if you need them. I think the deck needs more creatures actually to make aether vial stronger. Perhaps some phantasmal images could be cool, especially copying all the etb creatures in the deck? Or even something like Venser, shaper savant? I wish man o war was legal, lol. It would be awesome in this deck.
I really think the deck idea is awesome. I think more creatures for vial would really help alot, especially creatures that disrupt obviously, or buy turns versus aggro decks like rdw. Once eternal witness and cryptic command show up, the game is yours.
Where would you really want them? Stifle can be good given the meta (though I've never been a fan, too easily played around) but it's one mana which is super relevant because you can hit fetches. All of the modern options are more expensive.
I've been playing Shouta's list -2 Vapor Snag, +1 Goyf, +1 Forked Bolt and I've liked it. The deck's bad worst matchups are fast creature decks like UWR and Tokens and both of those cards are awesome in those matchups. I actually want a second forked bolt but don't know what to drop. There are so many targets in the format for it it's great. I do find that I'm often hitting a 1 drop and doing one to the face, though. Does Pillar of Flame have much utility in this format? Maybe I just want an instant speed option. Happy with Forked for now though, definitely better than a Snag, and the 4th Goyf is something the deck has always wanted imo.
I just found that Snag was good (read:not horrible) in already-good MUs. the decks that play dudes we'd want to bounce are decks we're already strong against as our end-game is insane. Snagging my own dudes came up but there are better things to do than spend a mana, a card and a life to return my own creature to hand. Like killing a turn one Delver or Steppe Lynx (as opposed to just bouncing it).
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Standard: Humanimator
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Have you tried tweaking the manabase to side in Sowing Salt? It usually single handedly dispatch tron, especially since you can recur it with Mage/Witness and protect it with counters.
I had originally dismissed that because it seems too slow to keep them from getting an early Karn or Wurmcoil and is a wonky card to try to play with the manabase. I'll see if it works.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Hey, all. Been playing a deck which is very similar in scope and method to this list, but Bant as people have asked for. While I'm not 100% square with the Eternal Command base, I'll post what I've played and have had some success with. Your mileage may vary, though I'm rather happy with the deck.
Major differences with my list and Shouta's (aside from Red/White):
Mystic Snake instead of Cryptic: This is likely to be one of peoples' major issues with my version, as I do not run Cryptic, instead preferring the less-powerful-on-his-own Mystic Snake. My deck, however, is more tightly focused on synergy and playing draw-go wherever possible. Mystic Snake is a big part of that; since he interacts very favorably with Restoration Angel (which is massive in this list), I functionally get the effect of bounce-recast Witness for Cryptic folded into a single four-mana package... while still being able to Blink Witness for generic card advantage whenever I need to. I like this interaction a lot. You may not. If you prefer Cryptic, play Cryptic in this slot.
Noble Hierarch instead of Vial: Since only Vial and Witness are played at sorcery speed in this deck, Vial, while good, is unnecessary. Hierarch accelerates mana, sets up non-creature interactions, and powers down a turn 2 Shackles, which can end games by itself. If you like Vial, run Vial, though I'd strongly suggest that you remove Shackles from the list as well in that case.
V. Shackles: Shackles really helps the aggro matchup (duh), and a major path to victory everywhere else. Beats pretty much everything but Giest. Playing this card renders the deck vulnerable to Blood Moon and Choke, however, as you have to include a stupid number of islands to make the manabase work. Again, YMMV; I consider it to be worth the risk.
Echoing Truth for Shouta's Bounce Package: This is a slower list than Shouta's, and as a result a more comprehensive bounce spell is useful. Sometimes you want three, and sometimes two; hence the 2/1 split. Shackles lets you get away with fewer bounce spells than Shouta runs; if you dump Shackles, you want 3-4 for sure.
Voidslime/Rune Snag for Remand and Spell Snare: Play either Rune Snag (if in an aggro environment) or Voidslime (if in a combo environment) here. Voidslime stops Storm very efficiently, especially with Mindbreak backup; Rune Snag is Rune Snag. As I mentioned earlier, this list is slower than Shouta's; Remand, while excellent when you have a Tarmogoyf on the board, is not nearly as good when your dudes are smaller or not-yet-played. Spell Snare is great, but again, if you're playing the slow game, a more general counterspell is better, I've found.
Restoration Angel for Vendilion Clique: Clique is good. Angel is better. If I had three more creature slots in the deck, they'd be Clique. Clique gets you a card-advantage-neutral one card worth of disruption and beats for 3. Angel is almost always a 2-or 3-for one when she comes down, and can block to boot. Angeling a Mystic Snake is often a big enough tempo and card advantage shift on its own to swing the game. Angeling a Snapcaster can get just plain dirty. She, in short, gets along with everyone in the deck.
The average lion is approximately 190 cm long and 60 cm wide = 11400 cm2 = 0.00000114 km2
Now, if we take that times a trillion we get 11,400,000 km2 of lion.
Noble Hierarch instead of Vial: Since only Vial and Witness are played at sorcery speed in this deck, Vial, while good, is unnecessary. Hierarch accelerates mana, sets up non-creature interactions, and powers down a turn 2 Shackles, which can end games by itself. If you like Vial, run Vial, though I'd strongly suggest that you remove Shackles from the list as well in that case.
Isn't the point of this deck creating a soft lock with Eternal Witness + Cryptic Command (bouncing Witness with another mode) + Aether Vial (to bring her in again without mana commitment)? While I kinda like your deck, it's way too 'fair'. It's hard to play fair in an eternal format such as Modern.
has anyone considered maxing out on the thirsts and running trinket mage + standard hate package?
CA from thirst, finds vials, controls the board? What I've been thinking lately, also I"ve been testing 2 of Jace, architect of thought and it appears to be working
Thoughts so far:
1. Restoration Angel is huge when she's working. I've been setting my vials on 3/4 instead of 2/3 and the synergy with the rest of the deck is great, opens up a lot more moves. There are many games where she just sits in hand as a dead card. Still undecided.
2. I don't like Remand, probably will cut some but haven't decided what for yet.
3. I like this mana base a lot more than the japanese version, I would always have mana trouble with that list.
4. I want to make room for Jace AoT but I don't think I'd ever want to cast him
5. This deck seems to destroy jund pretty easily
6. Still not decided on Sleight of Hand vs Serum
What happened to this deck? Why did it die off? Did RtR kill it with deathrite shaman and people main decking decay which can kill vials? Or are people just more prepared for it so it doesn't have a surprise factor?
The deck's primary focus is mana denial, a turn 2 Boomerang/Eye can many times be a time walk for you. The bouncing antics keep their mana count low until you can get your mana online for sustaining the antics. Primal Command tops off my list to search out a win con, reshuffle, or stabilize, or keep them a turn behind. Staved off Urzatron for 10+ turns in a game off 3 mana thanks to spreadings and boomerangs/eyes. Ended up losing after they used karn to remove a spreading and landing emrakul. A long game, but it put up a great fight and had I paid more attention would have eaten the 6 from the wurmcoil and bounced karn during combat rather than the wurmcoil.
This list is sans Goyf, as budget says no chance and I can't justify the slots for him.
The Hatching Plans are in there as a hand refill, via either Perilous Research or Beast Within, or post sb w/ back to nature.
In my opinion, the real problem I had in the past was the limited creature base. Sometimes it becomes very difficult to control the board. I felt two things happened that were much needed compared to the original list:
+1 Tarmogoyf
+2 Izzet Charm
+1 Gifts Ungiven
Charm is great for getting rid of Confidants and Bloodbraids, and dealing with affinity when you're in a pinch. The addition of a Goyf, along with Gifts allows you to shore up the lack of creatures. Gifting for Goyf, Witness, Snap, and Clique is a can't miss tutor, especially when you already have Witness in hand.
I know people have problems with Izzet Charm, but I think it's perfect in this deck, and perfect for Modern in general. Cards like Huntmaster take care of the aggro decks, while Meddling Mage and the splash of blue take care of hard to deal with combo decks. I've been digging my changes a lot, and am tempted to stick in another Gifts somewhere.
Thoughts?
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Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
As this is the deck I'm currently running in Lantern's IQ (just a small SB ajustment of Jace->Venser SS), I'll post what I can remember of the matches I make it through and some of the tech I found effective in the M/U's.
Some changes I have already considered to my list were 1-2 Frost Titans (expensive CC, but following the theme of the deck) and 3-4 Regress/Consign to Dream, 0-2 Tamiyo and 1-2 Crucible of Worlds in place of the Hatching Plans Engine (would be moved to SB). I am a little reluctant to remove it, however, as Perilous has won me a few games. Time Warp is something I have also considered, but don't think it will be as effective as what is already there.
I'm going to stick this for a few to see if it shows up anywhere else. Apparently it just won an online PTQ.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
@Infinitive I like the list because I was going there with Mystic snake and the like but I feel Vial is needed so you can have the flash in ability. It allows you to cheat through the mana plays.
Also beating with the Angel for the win is the most common way I would see my list winning. I'll post it once I find it.
it was a ETB abuse deck for the most part but I like lots of your ideas. Shackles for one is great for the deck and something I need to get. I'm gonna make some changes to the list.
\\\
-2 Momentary Blink
-2 Venser, the Sojourner
-4 Kitchen Finks
+3 Vendalken Shackles
+4 PtE
+1 Island
IDK if it will make a big deal but I haven't tested it yet.
I think this deck should pack some Electrolyze in the 75. Even main deck. It helps dealing with annoying creatures with 1 toughness like Bob, Tokens and stuff. And it cantrips.
Definitely. I think Electrolyze and Bolt are autoincludes- you can't get past the early game without cards like them (and there aren't non-red cards that do that). You definitely need to be RUG for this deck to be competitive. You're really a UG deck splashing the best options to get you to the lategame, because you'll win that anyways.
I think the third Electrolyze, the fourth Remand, and the 23rd land are flex spots, and I wouldn't want to change anything else.
I think the main consideration for me is the sideboard. There are a few possible configurations. There's the fairly obvious one, which is having some combination of these cards.
I'd rather play Noble Hierarch, and I wouldn't play that in this deck either.
Also like other posters, I hate the Vapor Snags. Hated them looking at the list, still hate them after testing. I'm going to be testing Forked Bolt, I think it's very well-positioned and under-utilized, but does anyone else have any ideas? Also I really want to squeeze the fourth Goyf in somewhere, but I don't know what to cut based on my limited testing. Any advice would be great. Last but not least there is still a lot of Tron in my meta, the best thing I can think of for it is Sowing Salt, any other ideas? Maybe cheaper targeted LD is better, the only thing that really scares me in the MU is an active Eye of Ugin.
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Path is highly relevant against a lot of cards in the format that Bolt fails against. Just going through matchups...
Vs. Jund- Kills Kitchen Finks (without recursion) and Tarmogoyf
Vs. Birthing Pod- Kills Restoration Angel, Kitchen Finks, Murderous Redcap
Vs. RG Tron - Kills Wurmcoil Engine, Ulamog
Vs. UW tron - Kills Elesh Norn, Wurmcoil Engine, Ulamog, Iona (if they don't name white)
Vs. UW restoration Control - Kills Restoration Angel (duh) and Baneslayer Angel (post board)
vs. Zoo - Kills off Goyf, Knight of the Reliquary, anything else
Vs. affinity - Kills Master of etherium, or any card pumped by ravager counters.
And this is more or less just the "main" matchups, not counting less common decks like Doran and company. Bolt is great, and it's nice that it can dome your opponent, but Path definitely has a lot of highly important relevant matchups where you would much rather have it than bolt.
I tested Forked Bolt over Snags and it was actually pretty sweet, against Affinity, Pod, Jund and UW to some extent it was very good. Obviously not exciting against Tron but that's fine. Still not sure what to cut for the fourth Goyf, but I'm sure I want it.
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
I've been looking through for budget options and I've come up with 2, Thornweald Archer and Talara's Battalion. Obviously they aren't best but they seem to fulfill similar options to goyf and hopefully don't hamper play too much. The Archer is a perfect blocker especially for vialing in, and can still apply as much pressure as witness and snapcaster. Talara's Battalion is as big as goyf is normally, but in this type of deck its restricted to being vialed in almost exclusively. Still trample is nice and its a big body.
Thoughts? I know budget discussion isnt really what's needed for a developing deck like this but there is a local modern tourney coming up that I'd like to prepare for.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
No one seems to like vapor snag but I love them. It saves guys from removal, and can help rebuy scm/restoration angels/eternal witness etb effetcs if you need them. I think the deck needs more creatures actually to make aether vial stronger. Perhaps some phantasmal images could be cool, especially copying all the etb creatures in the deck? Or even something like Venser, shaper savant? I wish man o war was legal, lol. It would be awesome in this deck.
I really think the deck idea is awesome. I think more creatures for vial would really help alot, especially creatures that disrupt obviously, or buy turns versus aggro decks like rdw. Once eternal witness and cryptic command show up, the game is yours.
I've been playing Shouta's list -2 Vapor Snag, +1 Goyf, +1 Forked Bolt and I've liked it. The deck's bad worst matchups are fast creature decks like UWR and Tokens and both of those cards are awesome in those matchups. I actually want a second forked bolt but don't know what to drop. There are so many targets in the format for it it's great. I do find that I'm often hitting a 1 drop and doing one to the face, though. Does Pillar of Flame have much utility in this format? Maybe I just want an instant speed option. Happy with Forked for now though, definitely better than a Snag, and the 4th Goyf is something the deck has always wanted imo.
I just found that Snag was good (read:not horrible) in already-good MUs. the decks that play dudes we'd want to bounce are decks we're already strong against as our end-game is insane. Snagging my own dudes came up but there are better things to do than spend a mana, a card and a life to return my own creature to hand. Like killing a turn one Delver or Steppe Lynx (as opposed to just bouncing it).
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
I had originally dismissed that because it seems too slow to keep them from getting an early Karn or Wurmcoil and is a wonky card to try to play with the manabase. I'll see if it works.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
3 Eternal Witness
3 Mystic Snake
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Restoration Angel
Instants:
4 Mana Leak
4 Voidslime or Rune Snag
3 Path to Exile
3 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Echoing Truth
3 Vedalken Shackles
Land:
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Breeding Pool
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Temple Garden
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Forest
3 Island
1 Plains
2 Treetop Village
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Mindbreak Trap
3 Detention Sphere
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Echoing Truth
Major differences with my list and Shouta's (aside from Red/White):
Mystic Snake instead of Cryptic: This is likely to be one of peoples' major issues with my version, as I do not run Cryptic, instead preferring the less-powerful-on-his-own Mystic Snake. My deck, however, is more tightly focused on synergy and playing draw-go wherever possible. Mystic Snake is a big part of that; since he interacts very favorably with Restoration Angel (which is massive in this list), I functionally get the effect of bounce-recast Witness for Cryptic folded into a single four-mana package... while still being able to Blink Witness for generic card advantage whenever I need to. I like this interaction a lot. You may not. If you prefer Cryptic, play Cryptic in this slot.
Noble Hierarch instead of Vial: Since only Vial and Witness are played at sorcery speed in this deck, Vial, while good, is unnecessary. Hierarch accelerates mana, sets up non-creature interactions, and powers down a turn 2 Shackles, which can end games by itself. If you like Vial, run Vial, though I'd strongly suggest that you remove Shackles from the list as well in that case.
V. Shackles: Shackles really helps the aggro matchup (duh), and a major path to victory everywhere else. Beats pretty much everything but Giest. Playing this card renders the deck vulnerable to Blood Moon and Choke, however, as you have to include a stupid number of islands to make the manabase work. Again, YMMV; I consider it to be worth the risk.
Echoing Truth for Shouta's Bounce Package: This is a slower list than Shouta's, and as a result a more comprehensive bounce spell is useful. Sometimes you want three, and sometimes two; hence the 2/1 split. Shackles lets you get away with fewer bounce spells than Shouta runs; if you dump Shackles, you want 3-4 for sure.
Voidslime/Rune Snag for Remand and Spell Snare: Play either Rune Snag (if in an aggro environment) or Voidslime (if in a combo environment) here. Voidslime stops Storm very efficiently, especially with Mindbreak backup; Rune Snag is Rune Snag. As I mentioned earlier, this list is slower than Shouta's; Remand, while excellent when you have a Tarmogoyf on the board, is not nearly as good when your dudes are smaller or not-yet-played. Spell Snare is great, but again, if you're playing the slow game, a more general counterspell is better, I've found.
Restoration Angel for Vendilion Clique: Clique is good. Angel is better. If I had three more creature slots in the deck, they'd be Clique. Clique gets you a card-advantage-neutral one card worth of disruption and beats for 3. Angel is almost always a 2-or 3-for one when she comes down, and can block to boot. Angeling a Mystic Snake is often a big enough tempo and card advantage shift on its own to swing the game. Angeling a Snapcaster can get just plain dirty. She, in short, gets along with everyone in the deck.
Anyhoo, hope this was helpful.
Magnificent Quote of the day:
Isn't the point of this deck creating a soft lock with Eternal Witness + Cryptic Command (bouncing Witness with another mode) + Aether Vial (to bring her in again without mana commitment)? While I kinda like your deck, it's way too 'fair'. It's hard to play fair in an eternal format such as Modern.
CA from thirst, finds vials, controls the board? What I've been thinking lately, also I"ve been testing 2 of Jace, architect of thought and it appears to be working
1 Plains
5 Island
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Hinterland Harbor
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Flooded Grove
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Treetop Village
4 Æther Vial
Instant:
4 Cryptic Command
3 Mana Leak
2 Remand
2 Spell Snare
1 Spell Pierce
2 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Vapor Snag
4 Path to Exile
2 Sleight of Hand
Creature:
3 Eternal Witness
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Restoration Angel
3 Geist of Saint Traft
Sideboard still being sorted out.
Thoughts so far:
1. Restoration Angel is huge when she's working. I've been setting my vials on 3/4 instead of 2/3 and the synergy with the rest of the deck is great, opens up a lot more moves. There are many games where she just sits in hand as a dead card. Still undecided.
2. I don't like Remand, probably will cut some but haven't decided what for yet.
3. I like this mana base a lot more than the japanese version, I would always have mana trouble with that list.
4. I want to make room for Jace AoT but I don't think I'd ever want to cast him
5. This deck seems to destroy jund pretty easily
6. Still not decided on Sleight of Hand vs Serum
4x Snapcaster Mage
3x Eternal Witness
2x Vendillion Clique
Artifacts:
1x Vedalken Shackles
Instants:
4x Remand
4x Cryptic Command
4x Boomerang
2x Spell Pierce
2x Beast Within
2x Perilous Research
2x Hatching Plans
Sorceries:
3x Devastation Tide
4x Eye of Nowhere
2x Primal Command
Lands:
4x Breeding Pool
4x Hinterland Harbor
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Ghost Quarter
3x Forest
4x Island
3x Grimoire Thief
4x Spreading Seas
2x Back to Nature
2x Echoing Truth
2x Wipe Away
2x Jace Beleren
The deck's primary focus is mana denial, a turn 2 Boomerang/Eye can many times be a time walk for you. The bouncing antics keep their mana count low until you can get your mana online for sustaining the antics. Primal Command tops off my list to search out a win con, reshuffle, or stabilize, or keep them a turn behind. Staved off Urzatron for 10+ turns in a game off 3 mana thanks to spreadings and boomerangs/eyes. Ended up losing after they used karn to remove a spreading and landing emrakul. A long game, but it put up a great fight and had I paid more attention would have eaten the 6 from the wurmcoil and bounced karn during combat rather than the wurmcoil.
This list is sans Goyf, as budget says no chance and I can't justify the slots for him.
The Hatching Plans are in there as a hand refill, via either Perilous Research or Beast Within, or post sb w/ back to nature.
GW/R Enchantress (Legacy) R/WG
RW/G/ Norin The Champion/Norin the Artist (Modern) B//WR
GU Eternal Bouncing Command (Modern) UG
WUBRG Wish On A Stick (Modern) GRBUW
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Copperline Gorge
1 Flooded Grove
1 Cascade Bluffs
2 Breeding Pool
2 Steam Vents
4 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
Creature
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique
3 Eternal Witness
4 Aether Vial
Sorcery
2 Serum Visions
Instant
2 Vapor Snag
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Remand
3 Mana Leak
2 Izzet Charm
2 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Cryptic Command
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Phantasmal Image
3 Meddling Mage
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
In my opinion, the real problem I had in the past was the limited creature base. Sometimes it becomes very difficult to control the board. I felt two things happened that were much needed compared to the original list:
+1 Tarmogoyf
+2 Izzet Charm
+1 Gifts Ungiven
Charm is great for getting rid of Confidants and Bloodbraids, and dealing with affinity when you're in a pinch. The addition of a Goyf, along with Gifts allows you to shore up the lack of creatures. Gifting for Goyf, Witness, Snap, and Clique is a can't miss tutor, especially when you already have Witness in hand.
I know people have problems with Izzet Charm, but I think it's perfect in this deck, and perfect for Modern in general. Cards like Huntmaster take care of the aggro decks, while Meddling Mage and the splash of blue take care of hard to deal with combo decks. I've been digging my changes a lot, and am tempted to stick in another Gifts somewhere.
Thoughts?
Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
Some changes I have already considered to my list were 1-2 Frost Titans (expensive CC, but following the theme of the deck) and 3-4 Regress/Consign to Dream, 0-2 Tamiyo and 1-2 Crucible of Worlds in place of the Hatching Plans Engine (would be moved to SB). I am a little reluctant to remove it, however, as Perilous has won me a few games. Time Warp is something I have also considered, but don't think it will be as effective as what is already there.
GW/R Enchantress (Legacy) R/WG
RW/G/ Norin The Champion/Norin the Artist (Modern) B//WR
GU Eternal Bouncing Command (Modern) UG
WUBRG Wish On A Stick (Modern) GRBUW
Also beating with the Angel for the win is the most common way I would see my list winning. I'll post it once I find it.
EDIT: found it
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Restoration Angel
3 Mystic Snake
2 Vendilion Clique
4 AEther Vial
4 Remand
4 Mana Leak
4 Cryptic Command
2 Momentary Blink
2 Venser, the Sojourner
2 Temple Garden
4 Breeding Pool
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Celestial Collonade
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Plains
it was a ETB abuse deck for the most part but I like lots of your ideas. Shackles for one is great for the deck and something I need to get. I'm gonna make some changes to the list.
\\\
-2 Momentary Blink
-2 Venser, the Sojourner
-4 Kitchen Finks
+3 Vendalken Shackles
+4 PtE
+1 Island
IDK if it will make a big deal but I haven't tested it yet.
Definitely. I think Electrolyze and Bolt are autoincludes- you can't get past the early game without cards like them (and there aren't non-red cards that do that). You definitely need to be RUG for this deck to be competitive. You're really a UG deck splashing the best options to get you to the lategame, because you'll win that anyways.
This list looks excellent to me:
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Eternal Witness
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Remand
3 Electrolyze
4 Cryptic Command
I think the third Electrolyze, the fourth Remand, and the 23rd land are flex spots, and I wouldn't want to change anything else.
I think the main consideration for me is the sideboard. There are a few possible configurations. There's the fairly obvious one, which is having some combination of these cards.
2 Combust
0 Huntmaster of the Fells
3 Pyroclasm
0 Sowing Salt
3 Spellskite
2 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Tormod's Crypt
Alternatively, we could do something like this:
4 Deceiver Exarch
3 Pestermite
4 Splinter Twin
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Which is certainly viable (and is a reason to put Izzet Charms in some of the flex spots.