Holy poop! I had made his deck back in 2011! I think it needs updating, ill have a look at the new stuff. I think i posted my list in my clan thread. Finks ftw!
Been playing this deck even more, and it turns out that Ghostly Flicker cuts 5-7 entire turns off your clock. Once you get recursion set up, you get lands then cards with whatever, then just hit with Child while holding infinite counters. The old way was Death Denied+Mnemonic Wall, but this is way faster.
I think the most important question of RtR for this deck is this: -
Is Rupture Spire or Transguild Promenade better for this deck (art-wise, at least)?
I think the most important question of RtR for this deck is this: -
Is Rupture Spire or Transguild Promenade better for this deck (art-wise, at least)?
Transguild is really nice, Rupture is meh. But you certainly play both, right?
I think running both would be an overkill, depending on the variants used. The amount of common mana fixing options we have (panoramas and gates alike) meant that mana fixing is quite rarely an issue (it is unbelievable but true). To be honest, I am more concerned with running more basic lands these days.
I run 5 Gates, Rupture, Transguild, Evolving Wilds, Terramorphic Expanse, and Bajuka Bog, that leaves room for 30 basics.
Mana fixing is always an issue. Early you need one of every color, but late game, Blue is the only color that matters at all. Everything you do late game is capped by your blue mana. Counters, Ghostly Flicker, Archeomancer, and more. Having lands that tap for white or whatever early and the all-important blue mana late is very important.
No Command Tower or Halimar Depths? I also noticed your most recent list excluded Terminate & Dimir House Guard. Were they not pulling their weight?
Yes Command Tower, I just forgot. Depths comes into play tapped, and with gates, I feel I cannot afford it.
Dimir House Guard doesn't do anything by himself and there are not really any four drops that need to be transmuted for. Terminate uses valuable red mana, which Rend Flesh doesn't. I need Red mana for Child and Pyro/REB, and being able to get only 1 or 2 mountains let's me get more islands, which are the only lands that really matter.
While I see the importance of mana fixing here, I think that having both the spire and promenade to be too much of an overkill given that I have other decent mana fixers already in the form of Trinket Mage (for the 5 Artifact lands or Wayfarer's Bauble), Sakura-Tribe Elder, Farhaven Elf, Yavimaya Elder (sorta but not really a good example), Chromatic Star, Wayfarer's Bauble, Mycosynth Wellspring, Prophetic Prism, Darksteel Ingot, Traumatic Visions, Evolution Charm, Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, Far Wanderings, among others. This is not to mention the various cantrip effects that I run ranging from Brainstorm to Sea Gate Oracle which will eventually dig me the land I need. With the balance of probabilities almost guaranteeing that I get sufficient amount of blue mana during the late game (13 out of my 38 mana producing lands produce blue mana, excluding the other mana fixing artifact, terramorphic expanse and evolving wilds.
I wouldn't lie to you though; I do run into colour issues randomly but it happens no more than it would hit a random five colour deck and even then, it is usually easily resolved by a few strategic mulligans or after a turns or so..
While I see the importance of mana fixing here, I think that having both the spire and promenade to be too much of an overkill given that I have other decent mana fixers already in the form of Trinket Mage (for the 5 Artifact lands or Wayfarer's Bauble), Sakura-Tribe Elder, Farhaven Elf, Yavimaya Elder (sorta but not really a good example), Chromatic Star, Wayfarer's Bauble, Mycosynth Wellspring, Prophetic Prism, Darksteel Ingot, Traumatic Visions, Evolution Charm, Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, Far Wanderings, among others. This is not to mention the various cantrip effects that I run ranging from Brainstorm to Sea Gate Oracle which will eventually dig me the land I need. With the balance of probabilities almost guaranteeing that I get sufficient amount of blue mana during the late game (13 out of my 38 mana producing lands produce blue mana, excluding the other mana fixing artifact, terramorphic expanse and evolving wilds.
I wouldn't lie to you though; I do run into colour issues randomly but it happens no more than it would hit a random five colour deck and even then, it is usually easily resolved by a few strategic mulligans or after a turns or so..
I play in a meta with a TON of Blue decks, so I don't have time to not have my mana ready to go.
I love this idea. Such an amazing looking list and I would love to play this. I think personally I would put it together with a fusion elemental as well to play with other pauper players and child to play with real edh players assuming this deck can keep up. (can it play with or against edh decks, with rates and all?)
Lastly, when was the last time the main list here was updated?
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BBBB mono black midrange RRRR mono red aggro GWGW selesnya aggro
Silly question, but i'll try:
how would you improve the deck if you had access to, say, cheap uncommons?
What would you include?
What weakness would you fix with uncommons?
Would you include a "type" (function-wise) of card that is not in the current list?
Cheap, not really? The number one uncommon, IMHO would be Eternal Witness. The next would be Worthy Cause. I cannot think of anything I would want more than infi sacs that don't target and saving 1-2 mana per recursion loop, while using my bad color of mana.
How well would this deck do without the use of a commander? My LGS mostly plays highlander and not EDH so I was wondering if this would be a good choice for a starting player who doesn't wanna spend too much money right off the bat. Although capsize is taunting me with that $25 price tag.
Without Child of Alara? Someone (Overheat, I reckon) was using Paragon of the Amesha. Maybe you need more removals or other tweaks as you lose the Wrath effect from CoA. But I think it1ll do good.
No I mean, not having a commander at all. As my LGS plays highlander (essentially the same thing without a commander and no color restrictions) and not commander.
This would be a poor deck without Child. It is needed both to win and to control the board. You could turn this into a highlander deck, but you would need some more removal and large creatures.
@Bangoo- You usually only have mana problems early on, so the vivid lands would probably be better. Only the Green, Blue, and Black ones would be of any use, however, and maybe not even the Green one. Near the end of the game, blue and black mana is the only color that matters, everything else might as well be colorless. Red is used for REB and Pyroblast, but not much else. White is only good for making Unmake easier on the black. Since I took out Pridemage, I have zero white spells, leaving me only needing Plains for Child, and probably only having Boros Guildgate in for symmetry. The trilands would be fine, all autoincludes over the bad guildgates. Having even more CIPT lands is probably not a good idea, since this deck is already as slow as sin. Also, cycling lands are for suckers in this deck. I tried them, but I played them every time anyway.
@Dragon- As the outspoken fan of the wizards, the problem with Goblin Electromancer is that he dies to Child. For just one more mana, I could get a land into play that would reduce the cost of my first spell per turn...forever.
I am very happy that there is still interest in this deck. With the variant section full of "pauper" EDH decks, it is nice to have one thread devoted to hanging with real decks and not just running Craw Wurms into each other ;). Playing this deck treaches what is actually important about winning a game of multiplayer Magic. It is not about the huge bombs, but about resource management and winning with a stupid 6/6 trampler that never, ever goes away.
Commander: Child of Alara BURGW, Adeliz, the Cinder Wind UR
Tiny Leaders: Gwafa, Hazid Profiteer UW
Regular Pauper: Stompy G, Mono-G Tron G, Infect G
Turn 2 Two Goblin Guide
Is Rupture Spire or Transguild Promenade better for this deck (art-wise, at least)?
Transguild is really nice, Rupture is meh. But you certainly play both, right?
Turn 2 Two Goblin Guide
Mana fixing is always an issue. Early you need one of every color, but late game, Blue is the only color that matters at all. Everything you do late game is capped by your blue mana. Counters, Ghostly Flicker, Archeomancer, and more. Having lands that tap for white or whatever early and the all-important blue mana late is very important.
Turn 2 Two Goblin Guide
No Command Tower or Halimar Depths? I also noticed your most recent list excluded Terminate & Dimir House Guard. Were they not pulling their weight?
Yes Command Tower, I just forgot. Depths comes into play tapped, and with gates, I feel I cannot afford it.
Dimir House Guard doesn't do anything by himself and there are not really any four drops that need to be transmuted for. Terminate uses valuable red mana, which Rend Flesh doesn't. I need Red mana for Child and Pyro/REB, and being able to get only 1 or 2 mountains let's me get more islands, which are the only lands that really matter.
Turn 2 Two Goblin Guide
I wouldn't lie to you though; I do run into colour issues randomly but it happens no more than it would hit a random five colour deck and even then, it is usually easily resolved by a few strategic mulligans or after a turns or so..
I play in a meta with a TON of Blue decks, so I don't have time to not have my mana ready to go.
Turn 2 Two Goblin Guide
They must just have it listed incorrectly, Gatherer lists it as a common...
http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=2951
Kitchen Finks is my clan name
Thank you for the clarification!
Lastly, when was the last time the main list here was updated?
RRRR mono red aggro
GWGW selesnya aggro
Cheap, not really? The number one uncommon, IMHO would be Eternal Witness. The next would be Worthy Cause. I cannot think of anything I would want more than infi sacs that don't target and saving 1-2 mana per recursion loop, while using my bad color of mana.
Turn 2 Two Goblin Guide
oh my bad, the card automatically links to the FNM version, which would explain the price
Still, how well would this deck do without the commander?
Commander: Child of Alara BURGW, Adeliz, the Cinder Wind UR
Tiny Leaders: Gwafa, Hazid Profiteer UW
Regular Pauper: Stompy G, Mono-G Tron G, Infect G
Commander: Child of Alara BURGW, Adeliz, the Cinder Wind UR
Tiny Leaders: Gwafa, Hazid Profiteer UW
Regular Pauper: Stompy G, Mono-G Tron G, Infect G
@Bangoo- You usually only have mana problems early on, so the vivid lands would probably be better. Only the Green, Blue, and Black ones would be of any use, however, and maybe not even the Green one. Near the end of the game, blue and black mana is the only color that matters, everything else might as well be colorless. Red is used for REB and Pyroblast, but not much else. White is only good for making Unmake easier on the black. Since I took out Pridemage, I have zero white spells, leaving me only needing Plains for Child, and probably only having Boros Guildgate in for symmetry. The trilands would be fine, all autoincludes over the bad guildgates. Having even more CIPT lands is probably not a good idea, since this deck is already as slow as sin. Also, cycling lands are for suckers in this deck. I tried them, but I played them every time anyway.
@Dragon- As the outspoken fan of the wizards, the problem with Goblin Electromancer is that he dies to Child. For just one more mana, I could get a land into play that would reduce the cost of my first spell per turn...forever.
I am very happy that there is still interest in this deck. With the variant section full of "pauper" EDH decks, it is nice to have one thread devoted to hanging with real decks and not just running Craw Wurms into each other ;). Playing this deck treaches what is actually important about winning a game of multiplayer Magic. It is not about the huge bombs, but about resource management and winning with a stupid 6/6 trampler that never, ever goes away.
Anyway this is my updated list.
1 Rhystic Study
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Dizzy Spell
1 Pyroblast
1 Terminate
1 Devour Flesh
1 Grim Harvest
1 Shred Memory
1 Impulse
1 Arcane Denial
1 Memory Lapse
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Counterspell
1 Faerie Trickery
1 Unmake
1 Capsize
1 Soul Manipulation
1 Forbidden Alchemy
1 Perplex
1 Ghostly Flicker
1 Snakeform
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Wrecking Ball
1 Death Denied
1 Gatecreeper Vine
1 Dimir Infiltrator
1 Vedalken Æthermage
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Cadaver Imp
1 Sea Gate Oracle
1 Drift of Phantasms
1 Gravedigger
1 Archaeomancer
1 Mnemonic Wall
1 Scrivener
1 Mulldrifter
1 Izzet Chronarch
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Mycosynth Wellspring
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Preordain
1 Disturbed Burial
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Cultivate
1 Far Wanderings
1 Divination
1 Compulsive Research
1 Mind Extraction
1 Deep Analysis
1 Reap and Sow
1 Foresee
1 Rush of Knowledge
1 Urborg Uprising
1 Brainspoil
1 Kaervek's Torch
2 Plains
9 Island
6 Swamp
2 Mountain
6 Forest
1 Command Tower
1 Rupture Spire
1 Transguild Promenade
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Rakdos Guildgate
1 Azorius Guildgate
1 Izzet Guildgate
1 Golgari Guildgate
1 Selesnya Guildgate
1 Dimir Guildgate
1 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Gruul Guildgate
1 Boros Guildgate
1 Simic Guildgate
Turn 2 Two Goblin Guide