Drogskol reaver Is very powerful, as a swinger card draw and life gain. With a secondary life gain such as a loxodon warhammer if he ran it makes him even more powerful. I wouldn't put Necropotence in this deck because he doesn't really need that kind of card draw. His deck focuses on tempo-ing up until he's ready to come out full force. It'd be more useful late game with a dry hand, but at that point why not recurring Insight or some other huge draw spell?
Drogskol reaver Is very powerful, as a swinger card draw and life gain. With a secondary life gain such as a loxodon warhammer if he ran it makes him even more powerful. I wouldn't put Necropotence in this deck because he doesn't really need that kind of card draw. His deck focuses on tempo-ing up until he's ready to come out full force. It'd be more useful late game with a dry hand, but at that point why not recurring Insight or some other huge draw spell?
Well I've come to view lifegain as an incidental bonus, and not something I actively try to achieve, but you're right about the amount of card draw this deck has. I was thinking about replacing either Mystic Remora or Rhystic Study if I were to put Necropotence in.
Hey man every deck i have with black in it has a No Mercy in it. the card is beautiful. makes people either second guess attacking or (if they have green or white) waste a enchantment killer on it.
Hey man every deck i have with black in it has a No Mercy in it. the card is beautiful. makes people either second guess attacking or (if they have green or white) waste a enchantment killer on it.
so worth it!!
I agree, No Mercy is a great card. If I recall, it's in my Stax deck or my Doran deck.
Don't tempt me. I'm already itching to make an Esper Stax deck, but it's not worth it unless I gut this deck.
Well I've come to view lifegain as an incidental bonus, and not something I actively try to achieve, but you're right about the amount of card draw this deck has. I was thinking about replacing either Mystic Remora or Rhystic Study if I were to put Necropotence in.
I agree on the lifegain part. I don't have much lifegain in my deck aside from the Reaver, Serra Ascendant, Vault of the Archangel and anything with Loxodon Warhammer on it, but it's a beautiful sight to see them draw you cards when it does happen. Life is generally not a concern. My early beaters come out hard and fast and if one happens to be Serra Ascendant, I'm already healing through damage.
I don't think you honestly need Necropotence. You're not running many ways to achieve infinite mana, and at best you'd probably use Necropants as an Arena or two. The Remora and Study are better tempo cards simply because in the face of seasoned players, they're going to be taxed for at least the study. I probably wouldn't ever pay 4 for the remora, that's just insane, but the study for sure. That alone is a reason to run them in my opinion..
With Humility out, Dakkon is a 1/1 even without any lands.
Vengeful Pharaoh would be a No Mercy that can also bring some beats. If someone wants to blow their GY removal to hit that, meh, whatever.
Humility is a hilarious card, though I see no use for it particularity unless you're running equipment things to beef him up past everyone else. Pharaoh is honestly underwhelming, and I'd rather run Dread or No Mercy in it's place(preferably no mercy). BBB is a pain to achieve early enough for it to matter, and unlike No Mercy/Dread, it only stops one creature, and it TARGETS, which is highly relevant. I wouldn't bother, not for this build.
Well I you want to keep skull don't cut rhystic or remora you want to up your draw count. You can sadly cut any removal as you can draw into it with necro. Also if you like swords war and peace loves necro.
I think a deck like this lives necro as a full hand means garunteed land drops and answers also not being combo and having lots of removal you can safly over draw when answers must be found. I like war and peace with it as a package simply becuase you can draw forever reliquary tower makes this rather silly.
Well I you want to keep skull don't cut rhystic or remora you want to up your draw count. You can sadly cut any removal as you can draw into it with necro. Also if you like swords war and peace loves necro.
I think a deck like this lives necro as a full hand means garunteed land drops and answers also not being combo and having lots of removal you can safly over draw when answers must be found. I like war and peace with it as a package simply becuase you can draw forever reliquary tower makes this rather silly.
I'll test it out. Card draw is a nice thing to have.
have you considered Perplex? It's still decent as a counter in my opinion, as people rarely are comfortable dropping their hand, especially early game. It has the added bonus of being a transmute, which fetches some of your best stuff:
and I'm sure I missed some. Normally I'd steer away from transmutes when you have access to better tutors, but this one in particular has a large list of things to grab with it and a variety of choices with it as well, with choices of card draw, removal, a hard counter or tuck counter, Recursion, a sword, and the satchel is really powerful.
have you considered Perplex? It's still decent as a counter in my opinion, as people rarely are comfortable dropping their hand, especially early game. It has the added bonus of being a transmute, which fetches some of your best stuff:
and I'm sure I missed some. Normally I'd steer away from transmutes when you have access to better tutors, but this one in particular has a large list of things to grab with it and a variety of choices with it as well, with choices of card draw, removal, a hard counter or tuck counter, Recursion, a sword, and the satchel is really powerful.
As a counter, I found it as lackluster as you did in some situations. I'd prefer a hard counter in most situations. As for the Transmute, I tried Drift of Phantasms for a while, and I just honestly don't like Transmute in general. Even Tolaria West doesn't impress me and usually just sits in my hand most of the time. If I could Transmute at instant speed, I'd like it a whole lot better.
I agree that a hard counter or hard tutor is better in most situations, but it's hard to overlook the flexibility of the card, especially in your deck. Drift of Phantasms is underwhelming to me simply because other than it's transmute, it's largely useless. I'd use it in my wizard deck but thats because blue is limited on tutors, the only real tutor being Long-Term Plans which is an awkward tutor also.
It's a personal choice I guess. I've always been a fan of browbeat like cards that are winning either way. It is dissapointing to see someone about to play their last combo piece, having mana untapped, and only having Perplex in hand. It is amusing to attempt anyways to see the player happily throw their hand backwards over their shoulder though lol.
I agree that a hard counter or hard tutor is better in most situations, but it's hard to overlook the flexibility of the card, especially in your deck. Drift of Phantasms is underwhelming to me simply because other than it's transmute, it's largely useless. I'd use it in my wizard deck but thats because blue is limited on tutors, the only real tutor being Long-Term Plans which is an awkward tutor also.
It's a personal choice I guess. I've always been a fan of browbeat like cards that are winning either way. It is dissapointing to see someone about to play their last combo piece, having mana untapped, and only having Perplex in hand. It is amusing to attempt anyways to see the player happily throw their hand backwards over their shoulder though lol.
I'd rather just have a hard counter. At least that way if it fails, I can shrug and know that I gave it my best.
Oh believe me, it it were more reliable, I'd run it and Grip of Amnesia.
I feel the same way about Grip. Grip draws you a card, so either way it at least replaces itself. At worst its a Tormod's Crypt that cantrips for 1U. I normally won't cast Perplex unless I know it's worth countering or if I know they have important cards in hand. I tutor with it more than I counter, but it's still nice to have.
I'm rather new to commandeer and only started trying out the format.
Dakkon seemed like an amazing blank-state general that I can toy around with, plus, he's in my favorite colors.
My experienced so far:
1) I can't keep up with other decks' ramp: Tithe doesn't really help that much in that regard, to battle this I'm considering to add Patron of the Moon.
2) Surprised your list doesn't run Reliquary Tower, with so much draw power it's almost a requirement, seeing as how I couldn't ever play everything out because of the lack of ramp.
3) Prahv, Spires of Order has really been good to me, a lot of hexproof/shroud creatures + everyone loves Swiftfoot Boots.
4) I'm still getting used to the format and meta, but it seems that none of my creatures survive to untap unless I have Darksteel Plate attached. It's brutal.
5) Can't decide between Vesuva and Thespian's Stage, the latter one seems like an overall better card.
Well first off, welcome to Commander, and I like Dakkon for exactly the same reasons.
1. Unfortunately, any deck without green won't be able to keep up with the big boys when it comes to ramping. What we do have is effects to compensate by not missing land drops primarily (Tithe, Gift of Estates, Land Tax, etc.), a couple of rampers (Solemn Simulacrum, Kor Cartographer, and recursion effects Crucible of Worlds, Sun Titan to reuse fetchlands and make Patron of the Moon more effective. If your manabase runs a lot of basics, Terrain Generator and Walking Atlas can get those lands out on the battlefield. What I've found is that most often I will hit every land drop and occasionally pull a little ahead, and sometimes I'll get a bad draw and stall or conversely sometimes I'll ramp faster than a green deck. It's a fine balancing act depending on your manabase and utility cards.
2. Reliquary Tower is hit or miss for me. For one, because I run a number of colorless utility lands, I try to limit them to avoid mana screw due to the wrong color. Secondly, I try to manage my hand size by not playing every draw effect at once. If I have Rhystic Study or Phyrexian Arena out, I won't drop another effect just for the sake of holding as many cards as possible. This is because a) a blue deck with a large hand is a threat, and b) if there's a board wipe I can drop another draw effect and continue right where I left off. I agree it's a good card though, so YMMV.
3. I agree, Prahv, Spires of Order is a good card, especially in a meta with hexproof generals. In my previous LGS league, I regularly faced Bruna, Sliver Overlord, and Zur. When I got Prahv out, Bruna and Zur were practically shut down. I removed it because I'm no longer playing in that league and it's too mana intensive for the off-chance of seeing a situation where it's necessary. (With it out, you're forced to keep 7 mana open, effectively putting you into draw-go phase)
4. That's why I run counters for any bad wrath effects, and I try not to over-extend with my creatures.
5. They've both got their ups and down. I'm still trying them both out so I haven't decided if one is better than the other in my deck or if they're both worth running.
Well first off, welcome to Commander, and I like Dakkon for exactly the same reasons.
1. Unfortunately, any deck without green won't be able to keep up with the big boys when it comes to ramping. What we do have is effects to compensate by not missing land drops primarily (Tithe, Gift of Estates, Land Tax, etc.), a couple of rampers (Solemn Simulacrum, Kor Cartographer, and recursion effects Crucible of Worlds, Sun Titan to reuse fetchlands and make Patron of the Moon more effective. If your manabase runs a lot of basics, Terrain Generator and Walking Atlas can get those lands out on the battlefield. What I've found is that most often I will hit every land drop and occasionally pull a little ahead, and sometimes I'll get a bad draw and stall or conversely sometimes I'll ramp faster than a green deck. It's a fine balancing act depending on your manabase and utility cards.
2. Reliquary Tower is hit or miss for me. For one, because I run a number of colorless utility lands, I try to limit them to avoid mana screw due to the wrong color. Secondly, I try to manage my hand size by not playing every draw effect at once. If I have Rhystic Study or Phyrexian Arena out, I won't drop another effect just for the sake of holding as many cards as possible. This is because a) a blue deck with a large hand is a threat, and b) if there's a board wipe I can drop another draw effect and continue right where I left off. I agree it's a good card though, so YMMV.
3. I agree, Prahv, Spires of Order is a good card, especially in a meta with hexproof generals. In my previous LGS league, I regularly faced Bruna, Sliver Overlord, and Zur. When I got Prahv out, Bruna and Zur were practically shut down. I removed it because I'm no longer playing in that league and it's too mana intensive for the off-chance of seeing a situation where it's necessary. (With it out, you're forced to keep 7 mana open, effectively putting you into draw-go phase)
4. That's why I run counters for any bad wrath effects, and I try not to over-extend with my creatures.
5. They've both got their ups and down. I'm still trying them both out so I haven't decided if one is better than the other in my deck or if they're both worth running.
I agree with all of your points, but I have to point out that Walking Atlas puts ANY land into play, not just basics.
As for vesuva vs stage, the fact stage comes in untapped and cam change makes it overall better, since it can be used turns 1-3 and you won't be too upset if you've got nothing good to copy. I'd still run both though, because vesuva has good utility with thawing Glaciers and copying bouncelands to reset etb lands, if your deck utilizes them.
I'm also glad to see the inclusion of Demonic Tutor finally. It's power is too great to not be in a black deck really. I think the changes you made stepped up the powerlevel of the deck tenfold.
As for vesuva vs stage, the fact stage comes in untapped and cam change makes it overall better, since it can be used turns 1-3 and you won't be too upset if you've got nothing good to copy. I'd still run both though, because vesuva has good utility with thawing Glaciers and copying bouncelands to reset etb lands, if your deck utilizes them.
Very true. Oddly enough, I've gotten Vesuva into play many times, but I still don't think I've drawn Thespian's Stage and used it to copy yet.
I'm also glad to see the inclusion of Demonic Tutor finally. It's power is too great to not be in a black deck really. I think the changes you made stepped up the powerlevel of the deck tenfold.
On the one hand, I feel that I'm reaching that point where I run so many tutors that I'm making the deck too linear. On the other hand, I run a variety of different answers and card types, and since I don't have a Time Warp in yet, I can't just tutor for an infinite turn combo. At worst, I can tutor for a blinking vindicate.
I find that 3 hard tutors is normally enough. In a deck like this I generally don't bother to try and tutor for a game ending combo, since I hate just saying "Oh look I suddenly the whole game." or something sarcastic to that effect. The only Combo I'm running is Rite of Replication+Kokusho, but both are really good on their own and there is plenty of ways to disrupt it.
Speaking of, have you considered Time Stretch rather than Time Warp for your combo piece? It's equally as efficient, but takes a little more setup. However, on it's own, two extra turns can be enough time to win without further abuse, as to where just one more might not be. If nothing else, there's a good chance you'll kill at least one player (assuming you play the 11th land on one of the two turns afterwards) and severely damage someone else with Dakkon.
10 mana is ugly though, that I do understand. My deck ramps up a bit faster than yours also primarily due to the inclusions of Walking Atlas, Terrain Generator and the new Dreamscape Artist. It's one of my 4 or 5 big spells alloted toward game ending, so I don't mind the expensive spell since most of my deck is <3CMC for Sun Titan
Drogskol reaver Is very powerful, as a swinger card draw and life gain. With a secondary life gain such as a loxodon warhammer if he ran it makes him even more powerful. I wouldn't put Necropotence in this deck because he doesn't really need that kind of card draw. His deck focuses on tempo-ing up until he's ready to come out full force. It'd be more useful late game with a dry hand, but at that point why not recurring Insight or some other huge draw spell?
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Don't tempt me. I'm already itching to make an Esper Stax deck, but it's not worth it unless I gut this deck.
Well I've come to view lifegain as an incidental bonus, and not something I actively try to achieve, but you're right about the amount of card draw this deck has. I was thinking about replacing either Mystic Remora or Rhystic Study if I were to put Necropotence in.
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Vengeful Pharaoh would be a No Mercy that can also bring some beats. If someone wants to blow their GY removal to hit that, meh, whatever.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
I'm sold.
Ugh, triple black again. With that cmc, I might as well run Phyrexian Obliterator. Or No Mercy
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Hey man every deck i have with black in it has a No Mercy in it. the card is beautiful. makes people either second guess attacking or (if they have green or white) waste a enchantment killer on it.
so worth it!!
I agree, No Mercy is a great card. If I recall, it's in my Stax deck or my Doran deck.
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I agree on the lifegain part. I don't have much lifegain in my deck aside from the Reaver, Serra Ascendant, Vault of the Archangel and anything with Loxodon Warhammer on it, but it's a beautiful sight to see them draw you cards when it does happen. Life is generally not a concern. My early beaters come out hard and fast and if one happens to be Serra Ascendant, I'm already healing through damage.
I don't think you honestly need Necropotence. You're not running many ways to achieve infinite mana, and at best you'd probably use Necropants as an Arena or two. The Remora and Study are better tempo cards simply because in the face of seasoned players, they're going to be taxed for at least the study. I probably wouldn't ever pay 4 for the remora, that's just insane, but the study for sure. That alone is a reason to run them in my opinion..
Humility is a hilarious card, though I see no use for it particularity unless you're running equipment things to beef him up past everyone else. Pharaoh is honestly underwhelming, and I'd rather run Dread or No Mercy in it's place(preferably no mercy). BBB is a pain to achieve early enough for it to matter, and unlike No Mercy/Dread, it only stops one creature, and it TARGETS, which is highly relevant. I wouldn't bother, not for this build.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
I think a deck like this lives necro as a full hand means garunteed land drops and answers also not being combo and having lots of removal you can safly over draw when answers must be found. I like war and peace with it as a package simply becuase you can draw forever reliquary tower makes this rather silly.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
I'll test it out. Card draw is a nice thing to have.
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UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
As a counter, I found it as lackluster as you did in some situations. I'd prefer a hard counter in most situations. As for the Transmute, I tried Drift of Phantasms for a while, and I just honestly don't like Transmute in general. Even Tolaria West doesn't impress me and usually just sits in my hand most of the time. If I could Transmute at instant speed, I'd like it a whole lot better.
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It's a personal choice I guess. I've always been a fan of browbeat like cards that are winning either way. It is dissapointing to see someone about to play their last combo piece, having mana untapped, and only having Perplex in hand. It is amusing to attempt anyways to see the player happily throw their hand backwards over their shoulder though lol.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
I'd rather just have a hard counter. At least that way if it fails, I can shrug and know that I gave it my best.
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i prefer makin' 'em suffer, but hard counters are always alright
Oh believe me, it it were more reliable, I'd run it and Grip of Amnesia.
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i want a copy of that counterspell now lol
I feel the same way about Grip. Grip draws you a card, so either way it at least replaces itself. At worst its a Tormod's Crypt that cantrips for 1U. I normally won't cast Perplex unless I know it's worth countering or if I know they have important cards in hand. I tutor with it more than I counter, but it's still nice to have.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Well first off, welcome to Commander, and I like Dakkon for exactly the same reasons.
1. Unfortunately, any deck without green won't be able to keep up with the big boys when it comes to ramping. What we do have is effects to compensate by not missing land drops primarily (Tithe, Gift of Estates, Land Tax, etc.), a couple of rampers (Solemn Simulacrum, Kor Cartographer, and recursion effects Crucible of Worlds, Sun Titan to reuse fetchlands and make Patron of the Moon more effective. If your manabase runs a lot of basics, Terrain Generator and Walking Atlas can get those lands out on the battlefield. What I've found is that most often I will hit every land drop and occasionally pull a little ahead, and sometimes I'll get a bad draw and stall or conversely sometimes I'll ramp faster than a green deck. It's a fine balancing act depending on your manabase and utility cards.
2. Reliquary Tower is hit or miss for me. For one, because I run a number of colorless utility lands, I try to limit them to avoid mana screw due to the wrong color. Secondly, I try to manage my hand size by not playing every draw effect at once. If I have Rhystic Study or Phyrexian Arena out, I won't drop another effect just for the sake of holding as many cards as possible. This is because a) a blue deck with a large hand is a threat, and b) if there's a board wipe I can drop another draw effect and continue right where I left off. I agree it's a good card though, so YMMV.
3. I agree, Prahv, Spires of Order is a good card, especially in a meta with hexproof generals. In my previous LGS league, I regularly faced Bruna, Sliver Overlord, and Zur. When I got Prahv out, Bruna and Zur were practically shut down. I removed it because I'm no longer playing in that league and it's too mana intensive for the off-chance of seeing a situation where it's necessary. (With it out, you're forced to keep 7 mana open, effectively putting you into draw-go phase)
4. That's why I run counters for any bad wrath effects, and I try not to over-extend with my creatures.
5. They've both got their ups and down. I'm still trying them both out so I haven't decided if one is better than the other in my deck or if they're both worth running.
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I agree with all of your points, but I have to point out that Walking Atlas puts ANY land into play, not just basics.
As for vesuva vs stage, the fact stage comes in untapped and cam change makes it overall better, since it can be used turns 1-3 and you won't be too upset if you've got nothing good to copy. I'd still run both though, because vesuva has good utility with thawing Glaciers and copying bouncelands to reset etb lands, if your deck utilizes them.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Yeah, I was just merging the two, and didn't feel the need for clarification since I was talking about running mostly basics. You're right though.
Very true. Oddly enough, I've gotten Vesuva into play many times, but I still don't think I've drawn Thespian's Stage and used it to copy yet.
On the one hand, I feel that I'm reaching that point where I run so many tutors that I'm making the deck too linear. On the other hand, I run a variety of different answers and card types, and since I don't have a Time Warp in yet, I can't just tutor for an infinite turn combo. At worst, I can tutor for a blinking vindicate.
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10 mana is ugly though, that I do understand. My deck ramps up a bit faster than yours also primarily due to the inclusions of Walking Atlas, Terrain Generator and the new Dreamscape Artist. It's one of my 4 or 5 big spells alloted toward game ending, so I don't mind the expensive spell since most of my deck is <3CMC for Sun Titan
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR