Maelstrom Wanderer is a very unique magic card. It is the first legendary creature that allow you to cascade twice, meaning if you set up a 2 card combo at the top of your library, you can often just put them directly into play and immediately take advantage of your combo.
Playing the deck:
Hypergenesis is a the core of one of the most degenerate decks of all time. The basic premise is to cascade into the card and thus be able to cast it immediately without having to wait for the suspend. To accomplish this, Hypergenesis was the ONLY card that could be targeted by the deck's cascade spells. In the recent modern environment, a deck that dominated the format was a combo deck that aimed to create infinite hasty creatures through the use of Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Deceiver Exarch (and some other cards that we don't care about). What if, and stick with me here, we could combine these decks into the easiest to assemble combo deck EVER.
As your general, you will always have access to Maelstrom Wanderer, and he allows you to assemble a 2 card combo and cast it immediately, but to do this, it has to be the ONLY cards that could be targeted by the decks cascade spells Therefore, I give you the game plan:
1. DON'T DRAW the combo pieces
2. Play 8 land cards
3. Cast the general,
4. Hope your opponents don't have any removal or counterspells or moat or curse of exhaustion**
5. Cascade into Deceiver Exarch & Kiki-Jiki
6. Make infinite dudes
7. KILL EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!
In the meantime, you fill your deck with cards cc>7 and cast many of them for alternate costs (morph, cost reductions, evoke, etc).
Edit:
As was kindly pointed out by foiljunky, there are a relatively VERY SMALL select few more cards (among the over 10,000 printed mtg cards) that can disrupt the combo, listed below in spoilers.
The problem with defining [EDH] by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
3) Ramp fast. You want to get set up very quickly so you should ideally just be ramping and attampting to sculpt your topdeck for when you go off.
That would be the experience I got from running him myself briefly. He is fun but you really need to revolve the deck arround ramping and setting up for a really big blowout. The deck needs to run combo but unfortunately it takes a lot of pieces and setting up to assemble it as you need it. It is a fun style of combo list but it is going to have a problem being highly competative.
EDIT: after looking at your list I think the only non combo creature you have listed that I would keep would be one of the two between Terastodon and Woodfall Primus... Most of your creatures are mostly just not needed for this list. Cut your mana curve wayyyyyyyy back.
EDIT 2: I think I just realized that you are doing this whole theme of playing a lot of things you cant cascade into in here... It is a little silly as you have like no ramp so you arent playing your commander until really... really late in the game. It is cute but the second people realize what your deck does they have it defeated. It might be cute against an online meta but it wont ever work in a regular meta as once they know your trick you are done for.
Or Shock... literally just about any sort of control stops the whole thing.
You might just be interested in running an Ad Nauseam mono black storm deck as I think it does what you are trying to do here but better. Or you could just build 5c Hermit Druid combo...
In my mind a deck that folds after its one combo is defeated is usually a bad deck. I would build something a bit broader with backup plans.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Pestermite seems marginally better than Deceiver Exarch, as it cuts down the number of cards that can completely F up the combo by a few (Moat effects).
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Or Shock... literally just about any sort of control stops the whole thing.
You might just be interested in running an Ad Nauseam mono black storm deck as I think it does what you are trying to do here but better. Or you could just build 5c Hermit Druid combo...
In my mind a deck that folds after its one combo is defeated is usually a bad deck. I would build something a bit broader with backup plans.
I saw that edit, and yes, the powerful hornet sting doesn't stop my combo from going off.
As per your earlier comment:
I don't believe in tutoring, it is against the entire spirit of EDH, as does Ad Nauseum - it wasn't designed for EDH and takes advantage of the higher life totals. And in this particular case, additional cards actually decrease the consistency of the deck. I know, for a certainty, (unless I unfortunately draw one or both of them) that when I cast my general (on turn 8 - because I'm running 58 lands) that I will cascade into my combo and IMMEDIATELY win the game (again, unless my opponents run counterspells, removal, or propaganda type effects, which I see as doubtful as those cards are all considered 'un-fun', aka cards people don't use).
Pestermite seems marginally better than Deceiver Exarch, as it cuts down the number of cards that can completely F up the combo by a few (Moat effects).
True, but then the all powerful Hornet Sting would be able to defeat me!
I saw that edit, and yes, the powerful hornet sting doesn't stop my combo from going off.
As per your earlier comment:
I don't believe in tutoring, it is against the entire spirit of EDH, as does Ad Nauseum - it wasn't designed for EDH and takes advantage of the higher life totals. And in this particular case, additional cards actually decrease the consistency of the deck. I know, for a certainty, (unless I unfortunately draw one or both of them) that when I cast my general (on turn 8 - because I'm running 58 lands) that I will cascade into my combo and IMMEDIATELY win the game (again, unless my opponents run counterspells, removal, or propaganda type effects, which I see as doubtful as those cards are all considered 'un-fun', aka cards people don't use).
True, but then the all powerful Hornet Sting would be able to defeat me!
This is true. I originally thought you were using Kiki + Pestermite which is generally the choice that gets comboed with Kiki.
I just think that it might end up being a rather boring deck to run... You don't really do anything until you can slam your commander and then after that if that doesn't win the game then you are not sitting real well...
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
This is true. I originally thought you were using Kiki + Pestermite which is generally the choice that gets comboed with Kiki.
I just think that it might end up being a rather boring deck to run... You don't really do anything until you can slam your commander and then after that if that doesn't win the game then you are not sitting real well...
This might have been true... in my original build (97 land, the general, & the combo). BUT now I have an early game plan AND a late game plan. For turns 1-7, I have a full 15 (16 if you count the red hide-away land) spells I can cast and play with. Plus, my deck can aggressively mulligan at the start of the game to ensure I have a good time. Also, the first time anyone sees the deck they will be caught completely unprepared.
PS. Slamming your general down the cascading through your entire deck can be quite fun
I think the major problem you have here is that your deck is a combo that wins on turn 8. Let me give you the benefit of the doubt and pretend that no one disrupts you for 8 turns AND that you make all your land drops. The best case situation for this deck is that you combo out on turn 8 in exactly the same way. The general actively precludes you from playing mana acceleration, but needs acceleration to enter play at a realistic time.
Why not play a deck that combos out on turns 3 to 6 with roughly the same probability? That deck might also be able to run mana acceleration and card search / throughput. And it would be a lot more consistent in the face of disruption. Turn 3 people might be able to muster a Wrath of God, but on turn 6 they could easily just win the game before you've even hit your 6th land drop.
I think if you really want this deck to work, you need to include cards that belong to one of three catagories:
A) High end bombs
Think Consecrated Sphinx, Tooth and Nail, Primeval Titan. These are cards that you are almost always happy to cascade into because they're just good on their own. Note that Kiki-jiki falls in this category as well.
B) Mid range card draw and mana ramp
You need some ramp and card draw in this deck, but it needs to be higher value than stuff like Sakura-Tribe Elder. Think Skyshroud Claim, Thran Dynamo, Explosive Vegetation, Gilded Lotus, and so on. You'll get some quality board position from cascading into this, but it will also let you cast your general on turn 5 or 6, which will also be amazing. Similarly, you can't play Brainstorm in this deck, but you can play Tidings, Opportunity, Concentrate, Jace the Mind Sculptor, and so on.
C) Undercosted cards that you absolutely can't live without and hope you don't cascade into.
This is your Sol Ring, Sylvan Library, Bloom Tender, and so on. You'll probably have to play Cultivate and Kodama's Reach just to smooth your draws, sadly. Mystical and Worldly Tutor are probably helpful here as well, because it lets you choose what you cascade into, if you have 9 mana for your general. Note that it's hilarious to cascade into a tutor if it's the FIRST cascade effect. If you keep yourself to 10 or fewer of these, you'll probably be okay.
The problem with defining [EDH] by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
I had posted about the idea when they revealed Maelstrom Wanderer but I didn't post the list because it is just too clunky due to everything having to be spells costing 8 or more (that have cheaty mana costs like morphers) and if you rush out the commander turn 5 into removal on your combo, it's mostly game. If you don't want to do the suggested plan of adding topdeck manipulation to the deck and cutting all the (pretty much) worthless cards like Krosan Cloudscraper, it will be a clunky one hit wonder that IMO was extremely boring after one game with it with a proxied up general. If you want to keep the combo iteration, be advised that a single piece of removal, counter, Propaganda effect, Moat effect, etc. will stop you cold and then you have a deck full of 8 mana spells and no ramp. You will want to add as many lands that tap for at least 2 mana, such as Ancient Tomb, the set of CIPT 2 charge counter lands (the names escape me), etc. that let you cast your general much quicker than turn 8.
If no one is playing removal, counters, Propaganda effects, or ways to interact with a turn 8 two creature combo, you deserve to win and you could probably win with any deck you want. There are much more degenerate decks in the format, so the title was a bit misleading.
Congratulations, you've invented the Maelstrom Wanderer deck that loses to counterspell. Of all the problems that I never would've expected wanderer to have...
This is not a dig at you, but looking at your current list, I honestly think your deck would be better with the following list.
Yeah, 8 mana is just way too high to play the cascade game. Multiplayer EDH is just about 99 card vintage... when azusa is casting natural order on turn two, playing green without ramp seems impossible.
Another problem with this is, Tooth and Nail exists, cards that tutor for tooth and nail exist. TAN costs nine, and a deck with tutors and ramp will get there several turns earlier than you'll get to Maelstrom Wanderer. If you want to play RUG and lose to instant speed disruption (counters, removal, etc...), play TAN and 98 other legitimate cards so that at least you can bait out some disruption.
I think that maelstrom wanderer is a great backup value general. In the same way that the mimeoplasm can be an 8th card body double in your hand, wanderer can be a mini- genesis wave in your hand.
I appreciate what you're trying to do. It's a good thought process, even if the execution just results in kind of a lulzy deck. One of the problems I've had playing wanderer is that you need about 12-20 ramp spells, and you often hit one of those ramp spells when you cascade (assuming you fail to set up your cascade with a brainstorm or JTMS or something.)
But still, the wanderer deck that cascades into Nature's Lore and Yavimaya Elder is still going to have a 7/5 haste general damage guy on turn 4 or 5. Honestly, people may laugh when you hit your ramp, but it means the ability to cast wanderer for 10 on the next turn after they kill it. or cast the TAN or Time Stretch in your hand.
And the times you do get a chance to mystical tutor a time warp to the top lead to pretty insane wins.
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I'll be sad if people don't start calling The Chain Veil "Fleetwood Mac."
Congratulations, you've invented the Maelstrom Wanderer deck that loses to counterspell. Of all the problems that I never would've expected wanderer to have...
This is not a dig at you, but looking at your current list, I honestly think your deck would be better with the following list.
Yeah, 8 mana is just way too high to play the cascade game. Multiplayer EDH is just about 99 card vintage... when azusa is casting natural order on turn two, playing green without ramp seems impossible.
Another problem with this is, Tooth and Nail exists, cards that tutor for tooth and nail exist. TAN costs nine, and a deck with tutors and ramp will get there several turns earlier than you'll get to Maelstrom Wanderer. If you want to play RUG and lose to instant speed disruption (counters, removal, etc...), play TAN and 98 other legitimate cards so that at least you can bait out some disruption.
I think that maelstrom wanderer is a great backup value general. In the same way that the mimeoplasm can be an 8th card body double in your hand, wanderer can be a mini- genesis wave in your hand.
I appreciate what you're trying to do. It's a good thought process, even if the execution just results in kind of a lulzy deck. One of the problems I've had playing wanderer is that you need about 12-20 ramp spells, and you often hit one of those ramp spells when you cascade (assuming you fail to set up your cascade with a brainstorm or JTMS or something.)
But still, the wanderer deck that cascades into Nature's Lore and Yavimaya Elder is still going to have a 7/5 haste general damage guy on turn 4 or 5. Honestly, people may laugh when you hit your ramp, but it means the ability to cast wanderer for 10 on the next turn after they kill it. or cast the TAN or Time Stretch in your hand.
And the times you do get a chance to mystical tutor a time warp to the top lead to pretty insane wins.
First off, lol at
Congratulations, you've invented the Maelstrom Wanderer deck that loses to counterspell. Of all the problems that I never would've expected wanderer to have...
This is exactly what I was going for when I designed the deck.
This deck was a bit of a joke for me, I wanted to build the funniest and worst deck that could win out of nowhere (especially if my opponents were unprepared for it), I saw a thread asking about cool stuff you could do with Venser Shaper Savant and it made me think of cascade. I then remembered this guy and thought of a post about him someone made (97 lands + Prime Time + Avenger of Zendikar). I decided to make it into a deck, added the big dudes, changed the combo to a win condition, and Boom, I was done.
That said, I think Wanderer has the potential to be a tier 1-1.5 MP general, he has everything he needs going for him and I may make a 'better' (though less consistent ) deck around him. In the mean time though, I though this was an 'excellent' (and super budget) deck that I should share with the community
Congratulations, you've invented the Maelstrom Wanderer deck that loses to counterspell. Of all the problems that I never would've expected wanderer to have...
This is exactly what I was going for when I designed the deck.
This deck was a bit of a joke for me, I wanted to build the funniest and worst deck that could win out of nowhere (especially if my opponents were unprepared for it), I saw a thread asking about cool stuff you could do with Venser Shaper Savant and it made me think of cascade. I then remembered this guy and thought of a post about him someone made (97 lands + Prime Time + Avenger of Zendikar). I decided to make it into a deck, added the big dudes, changed the combo to a win condition, and Boom, I was done.
That said, I think Wanderer has the potential to be a tier 1-1.5 MP general, he has everything he needs going for him and I may make a 'better' (though less consistent ) deck around him. In the mean time though, I though this was an 'excellent' (and super budget) deck that I should share with the community
I got the feeling you were going for the lols.
If you want my opinion on the general himself, he's my preferred RUG general for right now. Although my idea of budget rug is like... ramp, LD, and dismiss.
It's definitely the right colors for win out of nowhere. I can't tell you how many times I've seen two blue or black mages disrupt and counter and tutor and answer... only to hear the red mage at the table go "insurrection?" and win.
I haven't really read through the responses, so I apologize if it's been mentioned already, but couldn't you just run pestermite instead of deceiver, to avoid Moats?
I haven't really read through the responses, so I apologize if it's been mentioned already, but couldn't you just run pestermite instead of deceiver, to avoid Moats?
Yes, that is true. There are a couple of options for creatures you could run (now adays we have 3 to choose from in our colors - deceiver exarch, pestermite, and Zealous conscripts) - each one of which has different weaknesses:
DE - Doesn't fly
P - dies to the all powerful lava dart (which btw, is becoming a real problem power level wise for the red players in my playgroup, it can kill of 2 dudes with just the 1 spell!)
ZC - No flash, dies to incinerate , is more expensive to cast (in case you draw it...)
In the end, I decided that spark spray and incinerate were bigger threats to my particular meta than moat / teferi's moat[/CARD] (which no one can afford).
I will also say that in my personal experience, this deck has been amazing, you will almost always win when no one is expecting it, and even when they are, most people don't have ways of stopping it, it's really good.
That good sir, is an excellent point, and brings Zealous Conscripts back under worthy contention for the spot. I'm still hesitant to go with him though because the CC is so much higher. (One of the steps in my plan is DON'T DRAW the combo. If I do manage to fail at this VERY SIMPLE game plan, I would like to be able to cast both parts asap. (and I can cast the exarch at end of turn and for less mana)
Though I suspect that as my deck grows in popularity, people will be packing moat much more frequently as a way of dealing with deck, so I may have to switch it up randomly to keep them on their toes
I don't suspect you will have too many folks packing a 200+ dollar card just to deal with you. I will however say.. we have a guy who has a Maelstrom Wanderer deck that is highly tuned for abuse. Much worse than this one.
The first time I cast Curse of Exhaustion on his sorry butt, was the first time he seriously reconsidered his deck. I hate his deck and I have begun to hate Maelstrom Wanderer. Usually when he casts it, it is game over for everyone. Unless someone does something beforehand to stop him.
But hey, wish you luck being hated for using it.
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**** this site. I'd delete this account but that doesn't seem to be an option. The mods here are ******* useless ********s who ban people for simple ass normal words. **** them and **** this site.
About the deck:
As your general, you will always have access to Maelstrom Wanderer, and he allows you to assemble a 2 card combo and cast it immediately, but to do this, it has to be the ONLY cards that could be targeted by the decks cascade spells Therefore, I give you the game plan:
1. DON'T DRAW the combo pieces
2. Play 8 land cards
3. Cast the general,
4. Hope your opponents don't have any removal or counterspells or moat or curse of exhaustion**
5. Cascade into Deceiver Exarch & Kiki-Jiki
6. Make infinite dudes
7. KILL EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!
In the meantime, you fill your deck with cards cc>7 and cast many of them for alternate costs (morph, cost reductions, evoke, etc).
Edit:
As was kindly pointed out by foiljunky, there are a relatively VERY SMALL select few more cards (among the over 10,000 printed mtg cards) that can disrupt the combo, listed below in spoilers.
1 swords to plowshares
1 remove soul
1 cumber stone
1 damping matrix
1 shock
1 electrolyze
1 arcane laboratory
1 rule of law
1 peacekeeper
1 cycled decree of pain
1 hideous laughter
1 pithing needle
1 jace architect of thought +1
1 that rise of the elsdrazi enchantment that deals damage to each attacker equal to the number of attackers (light mine field??)
1 izzet charm
1 exclude
1 fog
1 holy day
1 essence warden
1 lethal vapors
1 gatecrash enchantment that gives tokens -1/-1
1 unsummom
1 seal of doom
1 dismember
1 slaughter pact
1 worship
1 burning tree shaman
1 night of souls betrayal
1 befallen shackles and two islands
1 mouth of ronom and 4 snow lands
1 moonglove extract
1 disfigure
1 sudden shock (flavor fully ironic)
1 hellbent ensnaring bridge
1 kizmit
1 root maze
1 torpor orb
1 ethersworn cannonist
1 mind break trap
1 solitary confinement
1 snuff out
1 echoing truth
1 echoin decay
1 izzet staticaster bonded with night shade peddler (wombo combos!)
1 Iona
1 blazing archon
1 visara
1 pyrite spellbomb
1 jesters cap
1 sadistic sacrament
1 nevermore
1 meddling Mage
1 chord of calling for orzhov pontiff
1 royal assassin
1 platinum angel
1 platinum empirion
1 bane of the living
1 Armageddon
1 limited resources
1 teferi
1 red elemental blast
1 blue elemental blast
1 time stop
1 bribery
1 telemin performance
1 traumatize sometimes
1 phyrexian revoker
1 suppression field
1 rout
1 pernicious deed
1 Nevs disk
1 pongify
1 squelch
1 crovax (both of them)
1 elesh norn
1 withering boon
1 gather specimens
1 arc slogger
1 root water thief
1 extract
1 soul spike
1 gisela
1 abrupt decay
1 aetherize
1 channeled jiwari earth aflame
1 ratchet bomb
1 barbarian ring
1 cabal pit
1 hero's demise
1 kiku
1 nights flower
1 orims chant
1 stave off
1 Maelstrom Wanderer
The Combo:
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Deceiver Exarch
Spells
1 Beacon of Tomorrows
1 Blasphemous Act (a)
1 Decree of Silence
1 Decree of Savagery
1 Praetor's Counsel
1 Time Stretch
1 Yavimaya's Embrace
1 Dig Through Time
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Lavaball trap
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury (a)
1 Artisan of Kozilek
2 Legendary Eldrazi
1 Avatar of Fury (a)
1 Avatar of Might (a)
1 Avatar of Will (a)
1 Deep-Seak Kraken (a)
1 Greater Gargadon (a)
1 Grozoth
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Krosan Cloudscraper (a)
1 Krosan Colossus (a)
1 Liege of the Tangle
1 Lorthos, the Tidemaker
1 Maelstrom Djinn (a)
1 Myojin of Infinite Rage
1 Myojin of Life's Web
1 Myojin of Seeing Winds
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Scornful Egotist (a)
1 Slipstream Serpent (a)
1 Stormtide Leviathan
1 Terastodon
1 Titanic Bulvox (a)
1 Towering Baloth (a)
1 Trench Gorger
1 Walker of the Grove (a)
1 Woodfall Primus
6 Island
6 Mountain
6 Forest
1 Sand Silos
1 Hollow Tree
1 Dwarven Hold
3 Filter Lands
3 Pain Lands
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Command Tower
1 Homeworld Path
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Temple of the False God
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Winding Canyons
1 Gargoyle Castle
1 Kher Keep
1 Springjack Pasture
1 Urza's Factory
1 Tolaria West
1 Mosswort Bridge
1 spinerock knoll
1 Raging Ravine
1 Khalni Garden
1 Dwarven Ruins
1 Havenwood Battleground
1 Svyelunite Temple
1 Hickory Woodlot
1 Sandstone Needle
1 Saprazzan Skerry
1 City of Traitors
1 Crystal Vein
1 Scorched Ruins
Updates for recent cards. Really excited for the addition of Ugin. Should be an all-star.
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
You are correct, the "game plan (step #4)" in original post has been edited (see above)! Thanks!
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
lol I knew I was going to see a snarky comment when I saw you posted here.
In all seriousness though Malestrom is a tough commander to consider highly competative even with a tuned list. Some things I would suggest you try:
1) Cut the mana curve way down. Your stuff costs too much and you have entirely too many targets that your commander cant cascade into.
2) Cut way back on the creatures and focus on your commander going off. This includes adding topdeck manipulation effects such as Scroll Rack, Brainstorm, the tutors such as Mystical Tutor, Long-Term Plans and such. Sensei's Divining Top and Sylvan Library are great for setting up as well.
3) Ramp fast. You want to get set up very quickly so you should ideally just be ramping and attampting to sculpt your topdeck for when you go off.
That would be the experience I got from running him myself briefly. He is fun but you really need to revolve the deck arround ramping and setting up for a really big blowout. The deck needs to run combo but unfortunately it takes a lot of pieces and setting up to assemble it as you need it. It is a fun style of combo list but it is going to have a problem being highly competative.
EDIT: after looking at your list I think the only non combo creature you have listed that I would keep would be one of the two between Terastodon and Woodfall Primus... Most of your creatures are mostly just not needed for this list. Cut your mana curve wayyyyyyyy back.
EDIT 2: I think I just realized that you are doing this whole theme of playing a lot of things you cant cascade into in here... It is a little silly as you have like no ramp so you arent playing your commander until really... really late in the game. It is cute but the second people realize what your deck does they have it defeated. It might be cute against an online meta but it wont ever work in a regular meta as once they know your trick you are done for.
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or Propaganda or Ghostly Prison or Windborn Muse or Collective Restraint or Koskun Falls or Norn's Annex or War Tax
You might just be interested in running an Ad Nauseam mono black storm deck as I think it does what you are trying to do here but better. Or you could just build 5c Hermit Druid combo...
In my mind a deck that folds after its one combo is defeated is usually a bad deck. I would build something a bit broader with backup plans.
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I'm not saying the plan is perfect or without flaw
I saw that edit, and yes, the powerful hornet sting doesn't stop my combo from going off.
As per your earlier comment:
I don't believe in tutoring, it is against the entire spirit of EDH, as does Ad Nauseum - it wasn't designed for EDH and takes advantage of the higher life totals. And in this particular case, additional cards actually decrease the consistency of the deck. I know, for a certainty, (unless I unfortunately draw one or both of them) that when I cast my general (on turn 8 - because I'm running 58 lands) that I will cascade into my combo and IMMEDIATELY win the game (again, unless my opponents run counterspells, removal, or propaganda type effects, which I see as doubtful as those cards are all considered 'un-fun', aka cards people don't use).
True, but then the all powerful Hornet Sting would be able to defeat me!
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
This is true. I originally thought you were using Kiki + Pestermite which is generally the choice that gets comboed with Kiki.
I just think that it might end up being a rather boring deck to run... You don't really do anything until you can slam your commander and then after that if that doesn't win the game then you are not sitting real well...
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This might have been true... in my original build (97 land, the general, & the combo). BUT now I have an early game plan AND a late game plan. For turns 1-7, I have a full 15 (16 if you count the red hide-away land) spells I can cast and play with. Plus, my deck can aggressively mulligan at the start of the game to ensure I have a good time. Also, the first time anyone sees the deck they will be caught completely unprepared.
PS. Slamming your general down the cascading through your entire deck can be quite fun
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
Why not play a deck that combos out on turns 3 to 6 with roughly the same probability? That deck might also be able to run mana acceleration and card search / throughput. And it would be a lot more consistent in the face of disruption. Turn 3 people might be able to muster a Wrath of God, but on turn 6 they could easily just win the game before you've even hit your 6th land drop.
I think if you really want this deck to work, you need to include cards that belong to one of three catagories:
A) High end bombs
Think Consecrated Sphinx, Tooth and Nail, Primeval Titan. These are cards that you are almost always happy to cascade into because they're just good on their own. Note that Kiki-jiki falls in this category as well.
B) Mid range card draw and mana ramp
You need some ramp and card draw in this deck, but it needs to be higher value than stuff like Sakura-Tribe Elder. Think Skyshroud Claim, Thran Dynamo, Explosive Vegetation, Gilded Lotus, and so on. You'll get some quality board position from cascading into this, but it will also let you cast your general on turn 5 or 6, which will also be amazing. Similarly, you can't play Brainstorm in this deck, but you can play Tidings, Opportunity, Concentrate, Jace the Mind Sculptor, and so on.
C) Undercosted cards that you absolutely can't live without and hope you don't cascade into.
This is your Sol Ring, Sylvan Library, Bloom Tender, and so on. You'll probably have to play Cultivate and Kodama's Reach just to smooth your draws, sadly. Mystical and Worldly Tutor are probably helpful here as well, because it lets you choose what you cascade into, if you have 9 mana for your general. Note that it's hilarious to cascade into a tutor if it's the FIRST cascade effect. If you keep yourself to 10 or fewer of these, you'll probably be okay.
If no one is playing removal, counters, Propaganda effects, or ways to interact with a turn 8 two creature combo, you deserve to win and you could probably win with any deck you want. There are much more degenerate decks in the format, so the title was a bit misleading.
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Clan RepresentativeThis is not a dig at you, but looking at your current list, I honestly think your deck would be better with the following list.
Pestermite
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Insurrection
96 Utility Lands
At least then you hit every land drop for sure.
Yeah, 8 mana is just way too high to play the cascade game. Multiplayer EDH is just about 99 card vintage... when azusa is casting natural order on turn two, playing green without ramp seems impossible.
Another problem with this is, Tooth and Nail exists, cards that tutor for tooth and nail exist. TAN costs nine, and a deck with tutors and ramp will get there several turns earlier than you'll get to Maelstrom Wanderer. If you want to play RUG and lose to instant speed disruption (counters, removal, etc...), play TAN and 98 other legitimate cards so that at least you can bait out some disruption.
I think that maelstrom wanderer is a great backup value general. In the same way that the mimeoplasm can be an 8th card body double in your hand, wanderer can be a mini- genesis wave in your hand.
I appreciate what you're trying to do. It's a good thought process, even if the execution just results in kind of a lulzy deck. One of the problems I've had playing wanderer is that you need about 12-20 ramp spells, and you often hit one of those ramp spells when you cascade (assuming you fail to set up your cascade with a brainstorm or JTMS or something.)
But still, the wanderer deck that cascades into Nature's Lore and Yavimaya Elder is still going to have a 7/5 haste general damage guy on turn 4 or 5. Honestly, people may laugh when you hit your ramp, but it means the ability to cast wanderer for 10 on the next turn after they kill it. or cast the TAN or Time Stretch in your hand.
And the times you do get a chance to mystical tutor a time warp to the top lead to pretty insane wins.
First off, lol at
This is exactly what I was going for when I designed the deck.
This deck was a bit of a joke for me, I wanted to build the funniest and worst deck that could win out of nowhere (especially if my opponents were unprepared for it), I saw a thread asking about cool stuff you could do with Venser Shaper Savant and it made me think of cascade. I then remembered this guy and thought of a post about him someone made (97 lands + Prime Time + Avenger of Zendikar). I decided to make it into a deck, added the big dudes, changed the combo to a win condition, and Boom, I was done.
That said, I think Wanderer has the potential to be a tier 1-1.5 MP general, he has everything he needs going for him and I may make a 'better' (though less consistent
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
Cascade is on cast, not resolution or etb.
GRRWHazezon Tamar (Valakut)GRRW
UKami of the Crescent Moon (
Group Hug)UUHeidar, Rimewind Master [Mini-Primer]U
WKemba, Kha Regent (Stax)W
GEzuri, Renegade Leader [Primer]G
True, but they can still counter whatever you cascade into... Namely kik-jiki or deceiver exarch
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
True, you still cast them... Well, you can get taken out by stifle.
GRRWHazezon Tamar (Valakut)GRRW
UKami of the Crescent Moon (
Group Hug)UUHeidar, Rimewind Master [Mini-Primer]U
WKemba, Kha Regent (Stax)W
GEzuri, Renegade Leader [Primer]G
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Clan RepresentativeI got the feeling you were going for the lols.
If you want my opinion on the general himself, he's my preferred RUG general for right now. Although my idea of budget rug is like... ramp, LD, and dismiss.
It's definitely the right colors for win out of nowhere. I can't tell you how many times I've seen two blue or black mages disrupt and counter and tutor and answer... only to hear the red mage at the table go "insurrection?" and win.
You counter the exarch or kiki, not the wanderer. Hence my comment.
Yes, that is true. There are a couple of options for creatures you could run (now adays we have 3 to choose from in our colors - deceiver exarch, pestermite, and Zealous conscripts) - each one of which has different weaknesses:
DE - Doesn't fly
P - dies to the all powerful lava dart (which btw, is becoming a real problem power level wise for the red players in my playgroup, it can kill of 2 dudes with just the 1 spell!)
ZC - No flash, dies to incinerate , is more expensive to cast (in case you draw it...)
In the end, I decided that spark spray and incinerate were bigger threats to my particular meta than moat / teferi's moat[/CARD] (which no one can afford).
I will also say that in my personal experience, this deck has been amazing, you will almost always win when no one is expecting it, and even when they are, most people don't have ways of stopping it, it's really good.
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
That good sir, is an excellent point, and brings Zealous Conscripts back under worthy contention for the spot. I'm still hesitant to go with him though because the CC is so much higher. (One of the steps in my plan is DON'T DRAW the combo. If I do manage to fail at this VERY SIMPLE game plan, I would like to be able to cast both parts asap. (and I can cast the exarch at end of turn and for less mana)
Though I suspect that as my deck grows in popularity, people will be packing moat much more frequently as a way of dealing with deck, so I may have to switch it up randomly to keep them on their toes
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
The first time I cast Curse of Exhaustion on his sorry butt, was the first time he seriously reconsidered his deck. I hate his deck and I have begun to hate Maelstrom Wanderer. Usually when he casts it, it is game over for everyone. Unless someone does something beforehand to stop him.
But hey, wish you luck being hated for using it.
stuff