In general, I have seen Azusa decklists follow one of two general archetypes: 40-45 lands, or 50-60 lands. What the former will generally do is play azusa to ramp for a few turns, and then lay out a consistent stream of fat. What my list will do is to consistently ramp from beginning to late game, allowing the deck to mass alarming amounts of mana and utilize that to make very expensive, but powerful plays. The latter Azusa archetype plays very different from other EDH decks, which generally spend the first few turns playing mana rocks and disruption/utility. What this equates to is that the high end of a regular mana curve is anywhere from 7-10, but here it is around 16-18. I have tailored my particular list to focus heavily on denying my opponents mana, which is especially effective in a build such as this because you can deny opponents mana while ramping yourself, allowing yourself to escalate beyond the rest of the tables ability to control. Instead of finishing off a table with lots of fat, this deck will generally finish off a table in one of two ways: massing an army through Avenger of Zendikar/Rampaging Baloths or playing a combination of Eldrazi to continously devastate the opponents tempo. The utility land suite is particularly effective as it is able to compensate for the protection/CA/removal slots it loses by replacing spells with lands such as Mystifying maze, Yavimaya Hollow, Mosswort bridge, Mouth of Ronom. There are no infinite combos per se, but their are several astounding synergies that let you play your deck as though they were infinite:
Avenger of Zendikar/Rampagins Baloths + Gaea's Cradle = Absurd amounts of mana (especially effective with Deserted Temple or Storm Cauldron)
Tabernacle + Vorinclex/Storm Cauldron = Noone else has mana to cast spells.
Crucible + Strip Mine/Wasteland = Kill 3+ lands a turn.
Recycle + Most of Deck = Draw and play 10+ cards a turn.
Having a CA outlet is very important, as this deck can run out of gas otherwise. Fortunately there are many outlets for this: Horn of Greed, Seer's Sundial, Recycle, Mind's Eye, Genesis Wave, Tooth and Nail, Harmonize, Garruk, Sylvan Library, Eye of Ugin (and by extent then Primeval Titan/Crop Rotation)...
The decks biggest weakness is countermagic. If the decks gas gets countered, it can easily stall out. Fortunately, the deck has a very streamlined and effective method for dealing with counterspells: Mana denial. If I target the blue player, barring a force of will, I will generally be able to protect my big spells. Azusa being countered generally isnt a problem, as this deck will very rarely miss its land drops so it will cast it a few turns later. Tucking this decks general is a bigger problem however, as it is difficult to play without access to Azusa.
Some cards I am looking to take out are Scrying sheets and Yavimaya Elder.
I would like to further discuss the proper land count in Azusa, plus any comments or suggestions about my deck are much appreciated.
A friend of mine runs a 54-56 land Azusa and he is rarely beaten even in 4 player. I think 54 is about right, at minimum 50.
I think Storm Cauldron is the wrong direction for Azusa, as it makes you a target, and usually people just leave Azusa alone until you have 30 land and a Avenger of Zendikar in your hand, and by then, its too late.
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A friend of mine runs a 54-56 land Azusa and he is rarely beaten even in 4 player. I think 54 is about right, at minimum 50.
I think Storm Cauldron is the wrong direction for Azusa, as it makes you a target, and usually people just leave Azusa alone until you have 30 land and a Avenger of Zendikar in your hand, and by then, its too late.
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I dont agree that this is a deck that can fly under the radar. Atleast where I have played, I either get preemptively targeted or I get ganged up on after the first strong play I make. I am not necessarily scared of drawing aggro, because as long as I make the correct decisions to prelong it and keep myself alive I usually do fine.
Storm Cauldron was a new addition, and while I still think it is powerful, I can understand where you are coming from. If I can't replace enough lands that I bounce, it takes away from this decks mana advantage. On the other hand it does allow for very broken plays, so Im going to keep an eye on it while I test further.
I think sol ring and mana vault seem unnecessary with the crypt in the deck, wouldn't you be better off with more card draw?
EDIT: honestly I don't think I'd cut scrying sheets, it seems like a great secondary engine. if you were to cut yav elder i'd throw in Fierce Empath or maybe Riftsweeper
Cloudstone curio + Alluren + Azusa + Any creature of 3cc of less
Infinite land drops. Mind u if that other creature has an awesome ETB effect its just gravy. Use this with Elvish Visionary to draw your entire deck while you get inifite land drops. :T
Thanks everybody for the feedback. I'm not to sure how much I like Cloudstone Curio in this deck, as unless I have Crucible of LftL, it will only accelerate me by a few lands for a substantially large investment. Maybe if I were to run Fierce Empath in this deck for shear CA, but I don't feel that it does enough with just Azusa by itself. A change I have been considering is adding Natural Order in place of Storm Cauldron. Its good when I run out of land drops so i can sacrifice Azusa to grab a big creature. it helps that this is a tutor effect, as it will be the only non land tutor I would have in the deck. Its primary targets will be generally be Primeval Titan to fetch more lands or Avenger of Zendikar to swing out on the board.
So a few more significant changes since I posted last have been the inclusion of Rude Awakening and Hunter's Insight. I've also rethought several overarching strategies to this deck and am considering replacing certain synergies with card advantage engines.
The first was Life from the Loam for Hunter's Insight. Both of these cards fill the role of providing mid game card advantage so that I can continue to hit my land drops. There was a serious problem with Loam however, as certain situations would arise where I would stall out with Loam as my only draw engine. This is bad because although dredging loam finds me my land drops, it does not provide for anything else that affects the board, so I would essentially have to gamble with my draw step whether or not I wanted to dredge or draw one in hopes that I could top deck something relevant. Hunter's insight is a trade off that I was happy to make. It is less efficient in the early game as I will generally not get a good target for it before turn 4, but I feel that the first three draws combined with the 3-4 lands you're going to start with makes this manageable. The benefit is that I have a much more powerful draw spell in the late game.
The next switch was pretty simple really. Smokestack is good at denying my opponents tempo, but it is excruciatingly slow. In the mid game where I am sitting on 8-12 lands is a very mana hungry stage, and the ramp that this provides often will allow the broken plays to come out a turn or two earlier. Rude Awakening synergizes well with Mosswort Bridge, Vesuva, and Prime titan, is nuckign futs with Gaea's Cradle, is a sustainable mana engine with Eternal Witness and Praetor's Counsel, and provides the ability to kill an opponent with a board full of lands which was never before possible.
The biggest thing I am looking at now are taking out my fog engines in Glacial Chasm and Constant Mists. They both have saved me numerous times, but I've come to realize how awful it is having either of them in my opening 7. I definitely want to ax mists, but I've have more reservations about cutting Glacial Chasm, as it is tutor-able with Prime Titan, NO into Prime Titan, Crop Rotation, and Realms Uncharted. It is also recur-able with crucible and Petrified Field, and prevents non combat damage like ancient tomb and mana crypt. I have also been considering running hurricane/Squall Line as an alternate win, which synergizes nice with chasm.
Have you thought of replacing Maze of Ith with some other form of disruption? Unless youre running Urborg it will nver give you mana, and it only disrupts the opponent if they decide to attack you. It doesnt seem to do enough, as long as your above 1 life damage doesnt matter that much, would it better suited as a spot for another utility land? or a form of cardadvantage? It seems irrelevent to the tempo of the deck.
Have you thought of replacing Maze of Ith with some other form of disruption? Unless youre running Urborg it will nver give you mana, and it only disrupts the opponent if they decide to attack you. It doesnt seem to do enough, as long as your above 1 life damage doesnt matter that much, would it better suited as a spot for another utility land? or a form of cardadvantage? It seems irrelevent to the tempo of the deck.
PS: Is Tooth & Nailing for Avenger Regal fun?
That... makes sense I guess. Maze is pretty bad opening hand because it doesn't tap for mana, and I agree about it doing nothing to disrupt the opponent. Plus the protection shouldn't matter if I'm racing the slower aggro decks or playing against the tier one decks which don't attack (Arcum, Azami, Edric (does attack but maze doesnt stop mass creatures), Hermit Druid, Ad Nauseum, etc...).
I guess I could take it out for something else. Buried Ruin always seemed very powerful, but there just aren't enough strong artifacts in this deck to warrant its inclusion. For now, I could try swapping maze for Eldrazi Temple.
I run similar build to yours but with less lands (48), no mana rocks and more utility cards. The MVP is Seedborn Muse you should play at all costs because it synergizes with all the lands with unique abilities (like Maze). You should also consider adding Arena which loves using eldrazis as overgrown clubs and is devastating with Muse. Constant Mists may be replaced with Spike Weaver which can be tutored for it Time of Need. Oh, and Birthing Pod + Genesis is fun too.
By mana rocks I'm sure you mean Sol Ring and Mana Crypt, which confuses me because I can't see any legitimate reason why you wouldn't want to run them. The sooner Azusa comes online, the sooner the deck can get going. Sol ring enables a turn two Azusa, and Mana Crypt is the only way to get Azusa turn 1 reliably, which allows for insane starts (In the year and a half that I have been playing this deck, I have more fingers than the amount of times I've lost a multiplayer game starting with Mana Crypt).
I like Seedborn muse, and I've seen how powerful it is, but untapping things like Yavimaya hollow and Rishadan port doesn't warrant its inclusion. I don't want to have to stretch and sacrifice tight spots for ways to abuse it. If there was a natural inclusion that synergized with seedborn, I'd run it in a heartbeat.
This brings me to the next part of your post which concerns Arena. I've considered it, but I feel that its ability costs too much for the situations in which I would have a good creature to use it with. If I have out a vorinclex or prime time or Eldrazi, I would surely have atleast 3 spare mana, but that mana would be better diverted to other parts of the game plan as opposed to killing a single creature. If Arena were closer to Contested Cliffs, were as I didnt have to sacrifice mana for its utility, I would put it in.
Constant Mists is already out for Memory Jar which has been really good.
Birthing Pod is alright, but for creature tutoring I have been considering Chord of Calling and GSZ. Plus there is a gap in my creature curve at 5 for pod and I wouldn't want to run Genesis to fill it, since I don't feel Genesis is a strong enough card.
Well I don't run them for few reasons:
1. Mana rocks along with cards like Exploration seem really unnecessary in this kind of deck, considering all you need is Azusa and some lands in hand. Sure they speed things up but so does T1 Crop Rotation for Ancient Tomb or GSZ for Dryad Arbor and these cards are not dead draws in a late game.
2. I run artifact hate in form of Creeping Corrosion and Molder Slug so I try to minimize artifact count in my deck.
3. I just don't see mana rocks in Mono Green - they seem out of place here. Nature hates Technology and green has a lot of other tools to accelerate, but that's just my personal point of view.
4. My meta is not super-competitive so my Azusa is already too strong for it and comes out of deckbox only on special occassions. If I'd play in a tournament of some sort then I would consider mana rocks but I don't see them as auto-include here.
Alright, I can submit the last point.
I dont agree with the rest though. Sure you have many ways to get turn 2 Azusa, but having more just means you'll have on average faster hands, which should always be beneficial. As for the second point, I feel that those cads dont come down until the mid/late game, at which sol ring/mana crypt will have already done enough. And I don't really understand the third point. Just seems like semantics to me.
Right now I'm looking at Terrain Generator as a replacement for maze, and trying to work in GSZ, and whether or not that warrants running another CIPT land in Dryad Arbor.
How this deck do perform against hardcore blue-based control decks?
not very well in a heads up match. in ffa, if the control player is smart, they control magic azusa asap. the deck generally does not run enough threats to fight though the countermagic. if the control/rock players are smart, the break your draw engines and the deck folds whether you control azusa or not. against players who do not know how to handle the deck, it does amazing though. the thing that makes azusa so good is that people do not know how to handle the deck.
the real big plus is in ffa is that you are never really the threat until you start casting eldrazi 2-3 times a turn. there is always at least one other player who appears to be more threatening then you (little do they know!).
not very well in a heads up match. in ffa, if the control player is smart, they control magic azusa asap. the deck generally does not run enough threats to fight though the countermagic. if the control/rock players are smart, the break your draw engines and the deck folds whether you control azusa or not. against players who do not know how to handle the deck, it does amazing though. the thing that makes azusa so good is that people do not know how to handle the deck.
the real big plus is in ffa is that you are never really the threat until you start casting eldrazi 2-3 times a turn. there is always at least one other player who appears to be more threatening then you (little do they know!).
- Well, that's my main concern since my meta is all blue-based control decks or control/re-animator decks. I want to make a non-blue/black deck that will actually work and wreck games for kicks...
- I had an Azusa deck, but I wasn't very happy with it. Not enough draw! Regards of what deck I'm playing, draw is my biggest concern, tutors, removal and win conditions are my last on my list of priorities. I play with my friends who are very familiar with how I build my decks and most likely, they will expect what's going to happen. :P.
- I will have to steal some ideas from your list, but I will warp Azusa (whenever I build it) into land destruction as much as I can do, so in other words, Green-Karn, Silver Golem.
- I will attempt to run it as Oath of Druids build with Stax + Tutors to back it up.
- Well, that's my main concern since my meta is all blue-based control decks or control/re-animator decks. I want to make a non-blue/black deck that will actually work and wreck games for kicks...
- I had an Azusa deck, but I wasn't very happy with it. Not enough draw! Regards of what deck I'm playing, draw is my biggest concern, tutors, removal and win conditions are my last on my list of priorities. I play with my friends who are very familiar with how I build my decks and most likely, they will expect what's going to happen. :P.
- I will have to steal some ideas from your list, but I will warp Azusa (whenever I build it) into land destruction as much as I can do, so in other words, Green-Karn, Silver Golem.
- I will attempt to run it as Oath of Druids build with Stax + Tutors to back it up.
- you would be surprised how many cards azusa can draw a turn if left unchecked. azusa decks should be playing like 8 card draw engines (digging as deep as playing howling mines and things like that). when you get 2 of them in tandem...it can become pretty tough to keep you down.
-uhh....my lists are not posted anywhere. this guys list is meh.
-azusa stax is not a good idea in my opinion. stax decks should have a general who contributes to the stax lock. they need consistent access to a lock piece in their opening hand on top of that as well. azusa oath seems interesting, but i would much rather get the cast triggers off eldrazi then oathing them up. be wary of hitting avenger with oath. that could be disastrous for you!
not very well in a heads up match. in ffa, if the control player is smart, they control magic azusa asap. the deck generally does not run enough threats to fight though the countermagic. if the control/rock players are smart, the break your draw engines and the deck folds whether you control azusa or not. against players who do not know how to handle the deck, it does amazing though. the thing that makes azusa so good is that people do not know how to handle the deck.
the real big plus is in ffa is that you are never really the threat until you start casting eldrazi 2-3 times a turn. there is always at least one other player who appears to be more threatening then you (little do they know!).
I wouldn't agree with this sentiment at all. I play in two distinctive metas, and both times when I'm playing against competitive blue control decks (Arcum, Damia, Jhoria, my own Azami) my go to strategy is to apply mana denial to the player most likely to have countermagic as early as possible, and it almost always works. These sorts of decks are usually very mana hungry, and even something as small as using a wasteland on an untapped land and passing phases is enough to get by. This deck is fast enough and has enough resources to be able to simultaneously ramp and apply pressure early game so that blue control will crumple after a long enough time.
-uhh....my lists are not posted anywhere. this guys list is meh.
I take offense to this. This list has been tuned for a year and a half, and it performs amazingly, dominating games against top tier decks on a consistent basis. If there are questions you have about my list, feel free to ask, or if you'd like to post your list for comparison, feel free to do so, but don't make statements like this.
I wouldn't agree with this sentiment at all. I play in two distinctive metas, and both times when I'm playing against competitive blue control decks (Arcum, Damia, Jhoria, my own Azami) my go to strategy is to apply mana denial to the player most likely to have countermagic as early as possible, and it almost always works. These sorts of decks are usually very mana hungry, and even something as small as using a wasteland on an untapped land and passing phases is enough to get by. This deck is fast enough and has enough resources to be able to simultaneously ramp and apply pressure early game so that blue control will crumple after a long enough time.
i count a total of 9 cards that could be used for mana denial. you will see approximately 1 within your first 10 cards. with no active draw engine, it will be harder to find one. half of your mana denial comes from lands. without an active crucible, those lands become less stellar and keeping a control player off counter mana. counterspells arent even the least of the worries that azusa pilots need to take into consideration. while you are keeping the control player in check, you are letting the combo player do his thing (you do not have symmetrical mana denial outside of tabernacle and sundering titan). that is far worse since azusa has almost no ways of interacting with combo outside of LD. i highly doubt the mana denial strategy is working as well as you make it out to be with all of these factors.
on the topic of how your deck is fast enough to apply pressure and disrupt...
it is obvious your deck is built for speed, but with that you are losing a lot of slots that could be used for more effective cards. things like mana rocks are something i do not understand in azusa lists. sure you can get a bit ahead on mana, but thats what your general is for. so what if they allow you to get an early draw engine out before the azusa cast...what happens when you peel one off the top with no draw engine in play and no hand? they do not trigger land fall, they do not count towards avengers token making ability, they do not put lands into play, and they do not beat face.
then again, if it works for your meta, more power to you. in my year of tinkering with azusa, i found them to be unnecessary and opted for more consistent cards.
I take offense to this. This list has been tuned for a year and a half, and it performs amazingly, dominating games against top tier decks on a consistent basis. If there are questions you have about my list, feel free to ask, or if you'd like to post your list for comparison, feel free to do so, but don't make statements like this.
first off, i never said your list is bad. i said its meh, as in its "whatever"...its okay...its nothing special. you play some good cards and some bad cards. i didnt mean to offend you, and i do apologize if i did. do i feel your list is as highly tuned as it can be? no. and marketing it as that way is not fair to the community. second, "dominating games against top tier decks" does not mean anything. when i first got to seattle, the top tier decks were starke of rath and rhys. does that mean they were good decks? no, but thats what was on top when i got here. and sure enough, azusa got through them with no problem. but azusa was never able to hang with the big dogs. back home, she could only come out to play when, teneb, azami, erayo, arcum, momir vig and sharruum were put away for the night.
- you would be surprised how many cards azusa can draw a turn if left unchecked. azusa decks should be playing like 8 card draw engines (digging as deep as playing howling mines and things like that). when you get 2 of them in tandem...it can become pretty tough to keep you down.
-uhh....my lists are not posted anywhere. this guys list is meh.
-azusa stax is not a good idea in my opinion. stax decks should have a general who contributes to the stax lock. they need consistent access to a lock piece in their opening hand on top of that as well. azusa oath seems interesting, but i would much rather get the cast triggers off eldrazi then oathing them up. be wary of hitting avenger with oath. that could be disastrous for you!
You'd be surprised brah, you can sacrifice lands every turn to various Smokestack effects. Give it a shot, there's no harm in trying right?
Another question why no Sundering Titan and sacrifice outlets to make it nuts. What do you really lose from it triggering twice? 2 basic forest at most.
I just like land destruction way too much to play Sundering Titan and random Armageddon effects if I happen to be playing white.
You'd be surprised brah, you can sacrifice lands every turn to various Smokestack effects. Give it a shot, there's no harm in trying right?
Another question why no Sundering Titan and sacrifice outlets to make it nuts. What do you really lose from it triggering twice? 2 basic forest at most.
I just like land destruction way too much to play Sundering Titan and random Armageddon effects if I happen to be playing white.
i have tried it actually, hahha. and various other smokestack decks in edh (stax has been my favorite deck for ages, and i play it in every format i can). i was only ever happy with 2 stax lists for edh... braids (which got banned) and erayo (which i built after braids got banned....and then i proceeded to get her banned, haha). i barely accept smokestack in karn
sundering titan, while extremely good dosent do much a lot of the time in well developed metas. hes usually crippling or a random fatty that hits a land or two on the way in and a land or two on the way out. very rarely do you get to hit 8-10 off of him. hes a meta card IMO.
i have tried it actually, hahha. and various other smokestack decks in edh (stax has been my favorite deck for ages, and i play it in every format i can). i was only ever happy with 2 stax lists for edh... braids (which got banned) and erayo (which i built after braids got banned....and then i proceeded to get her banned, haha). i barely accept smokestack in karn
sundering titan, while extremely good dosent do much a lot of the time in well developed metas. hes usually crippling or a random fatty that hits a land or two on the way in and a land or two on the way out. very rarely do you get to hit 8-10 off of him. hes a meta card IMO.
Great to see another fellow Stax player, hello there.
He usually dominates the metas' where 3-colours rule, so it will at least destroy 2+ lands when it comes into play. If nothing it beats for 7 or trys to.
Bederndern i hope you mean Meta in the sense of any one who has more than 1 color in their general. the chances of you sitting at a table with 3 other mono color decks is highly unlikely, so youre garuenteed to hit at least 3 lands with his entrance, and if theres another green player there you wont even need to lose a land yourself. 9 forms of mana denial is plenty when you only need 1 to stop someone from doing anything to stop you. 1 Strip Mine, or 1 turn of Rishadon Port, or losing 1 land from Sundering Titan can mean the difference between combo-ing off and passing phases with nothing to do. Slamming the triple color player for 3 lands is a bigger punch than eating annihilator sometimes.
Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, and Exploration are in everyway completely necessary. Not running any other form of accel because youre general does it is really only a valid statement when talking about cards like Nature's Lore, Skyshroud Claim, and Rampant Growth. Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, and Exploration all give you turn 2 and 1 Azusa, and when its turn 2 and turn 1 its hard for anyone to stop her from hitting the table. 1/100 times youll have nothing but lands to play, and just sit on your ass because you got unlucky with your draws, the other 99 times youll be playing Recycle turn 2 or Gen Wave for 8 on turn 3, or Tooth and Nail. Azusa is natural card disadvantage so i can understand the thought that getting her on the table faster really just dumps your hand faster and youll have nothing to do. if you've built your deck properly, than that will almost never happen. Dropping Azusa turn 2 can allow for borderline banworthy plays a turn later, instead of on turn 4 or 5 where its a lot easier to control.
Yes it's built for speed, it's one of the fastest decks you can come across after being finely tuned so much. I can tell you from experience how consistantly a pain in the ass this deck can be, it takes more than 1 counterspell to shut down and even with everyone else at the table being at an equal power level, if the Azusa player has an opening hand Mana Crypt... better pray one of you has a force of will because hes going to be blowing down the gate. The acceleration that the 3 cards bring cannot be argued if the deck is consistant with them. Play a game with your deck against his and yours with whatever way you think is better, 99/100 times his deck will outperform or be more consistant, more often than it.
It seems to me your basing most of your opinion of Azusa on the decks you have experienced in your meta. The generals you mentioned are indeed extremely powerful but i'd put a well built Azusa deck like this one above everything you posted in terms of consistancy and power except for Azami and Arcum, and even then it would be an even match there. This is not your average Azusa deck, looking at a list online can't properly show you that.
I don't mean to sound condescending, but many of the statements you made are incredibly ignorant, and only seem to point toward meta experience, nothing more. Through all the metas i've been through i could count on 1 hand the number of decks that can consistantly keep up with this one, and none of them were part of your list. I apologize for the verbose response, but ive seen first hand how explosive this deck is, and seeing a myriad of comments belittling its power level without adequate explanation is aggravating.
WE BACK BOYS!!!
3 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
Lands(54):
0 Ancient Tomb
0 Blinkmoth Well
0 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
0 Cavern of Souls
0 Deserted Temple
0 Dust Bowl
0 Encroaching Wastes
0 Eye of Ugin
0 Gaea's Cradle
0 Homeward Path
0 Misty Rainforest
0 Mosswort Bridge
0 Mouth of Ronom
0 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
0 Petrified Field
0 Rishadan Port
26 Snow-Covered Forest
0 Strip Mine
0 Tectonic Edge
0 Temple of the False God
0 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
0 Thespian's Stage
0 Verdant Catacombs
0 Vesuva
0 Wasteland
0 Winding Canyons
0 Windswept Heath
0 Wooded Foothills
0 Yavimaya Hollow
0 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Horn of Greed
5 Memory Jar
5 Mind's Eye
Creatures(14):
2 Lotus Cobra
3 Courser of Kruphix
3 Eternal Witness
3 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
6 Bane of Progress
6 Rampaging Baloths
6 Realm Seekers
7 Avenger of Zendikar
7 Regal Force
8 Terastadon
8 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
10 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
11 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Enchantments(5):
1 Exploration
1 Utopia Sprawl
1 Wild Growth
2 Sylvan Library
6 Recycle
1 Crop Rotation
3 Beast Within
3 Sprouting Vines
0 Chord of Calling
Planeswalkers(2):
5 Garruk, Primal Hunter
8 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Sorceries(12):
2 Explore
3 Journey of Discovery
4 Seek the Horizon
4 Harmonize
4 Natural Order
5 Rude Awakening
7 All Is Dust
7 Tooth and Nail
8 Praetor's Counsel
9 The Great Aurora
NEW OP/PRIMER COMING SOON!!!
In general, I have seen Azusa decklists follow one of two general archetypes: 40-45 lands, or 50-60 lands. What the former will generally do is play azusa to ramp for a few turns, and then lay out a consistent stream of fat. What my list will do is to consistently ramp from beginning to late game, allowing the deck to mass alarming amounts of mana and utilize that to make very expensive, but powerful plays. The latter Azusa archetype plays very different from other EDH decks, which generally spend the first few turns playing mana rocks and disruption/utility. What this equates to is that the high end of a regular mana curve is anywhere from 7-10, but here it is around 16-18. I have tailored my particular list to focus heavily on denying my opponents mana, which is especially effective in a build such as this because you can deny opponents mana while ramping yourself, allowing yourself to escalate beyond the rest of the tables ability to control. Instead of finishing off a table with lots of fat, this deck will generally finish off a table in one of two ways: massing an army through Avenger of Zendikar/Rampaging Baloths or playing a combination of Eldrazi to continously devastate the opponents tempo. The utility land suite is particularly effective as it is able to compensate for the protection/CA/removal slots it loses by replacing spells with lands such as Mystifying maze, Yavimaya Hollow, Mosswort bridge, Mouth of Ronom. There are no infinite combos per se, but their are several astounding synergies that let you play your deck as though they were infinite:
Avenger of Zendikar/Rampagins Baloths + Gaea's Cradle = Absurd amounts of mana (especially effective with Deserted Temple or Storm Cauldron)
Tabernacle + Vorinclex/Storm Cauldron = Noone else has mana to cast spells.
Crucible + Strip Mine/Wasteland = Kill 3+ lands a turn.
Recycle + Most of Deck = Draw and play 10+ cards a turn.
Having a CA outlet is very important, as this deck can run out of gas otherwise. Fortunately there are many outlets for this: Horn of Greed, Seer's Sundial, Recycle, Mind's Eye, Genesis Wave, Tooth and Nail, Harmonize, Garruk, Sylvan Library, Eye of Ugin (and by extent then Primeval Titan/Crop Rotation)...
The decks biggest weakness is countermagic. If the decks gas gets countered, it can easily stall out. Fortunately, the deck has a very streamlined and effective method for dealing with counterspells: Mana denial. If I target the blue player, barring a force of will, I will generally be able to protect my big spells. Azusa being countered generally isnt a problem, as this deck will very rarely miss its land drops so it will cast it a few turns later. Tucking this decks general is a bigger problem however, as it is difficult to play without access to Azusa.
Some cards I am looking to take out are Scrying sheets and Yavimaya Elder.
I would like to further discuss the proper land count in Azusa, plus any comments or suggestions about my deck are much appreciated.
Edit: Recent Changes
8/17/2011: Storm Cauldron -> Natural Order
9/22/2011: Life from the Loam -> Hunter's Insight
9/22/2011: Smokestack -> Rude Awakening
11/25/2011: Scrying Sheets -> Rishadan Port
11/25/2011: Constant Mists -> Memory Jar
11/25/2011: Steel Hellkite -> Regal Force
1/2/2012: Glacial Chasm -> Miren, the Moaning Well
1/6/2012: Maze of Ith -> Eldrazi Temple
1/25/2012:Hunter's Insight -> Green Sun's Zenith
11/28/2012: Miren, the Moaning Well -> High Market
11/28/2012: Springjack Pasture -> Cavern of Souls
11/28/2012: Cultivate -> Sprouting Vines
11/28/2012: Omnath -> Emerald Medallion
11/28/2012: Yavimaya Elder -> Explore
7/16/2015:
eldrazi temple
High Market
Mystifying Maze
2 Snow-Covered Forest
Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
Duplicant
Sundering Titan
Primeval Titan
Emerald Medallion
Mirri's Guile
Seer's Sundial
Realms Uncharted
Kodama's Reach
IN:
Blinkmoth Well
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Encroaching Wastes
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Thespian's Stage
Bane of Progress
Nissa, Vastwood Seer
Courser of Kruphix
Realm Seekers
Wild Growth
Utopia Sprawl
Chord of Calling
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
The Great Aurora
EDH:
[Competitive] Azusa, Lost but Seeking (54 Lands)
[Competitive] Azami, Lady of Scrolls (Time Warp combo/control)
[Competitive] Kruphix, God of No (True EDH DrawGo)
I think Storm Cauldron is the wrong direction for Azusa, as it makes you a target, and usually people just leave Azusa alone until you have 30 land and a Avenger of Zendikar in your hand, and by then, its too late.
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Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
I dont agree that this is a deck that can fly under the radar. Atleast where I have played, I either get preemptively targeted or I get ganged up on after the first strong play I make. I am not necessarily scared of drawing aggro, because as long as I make the correct decisions to prelong it and keep myself alive I usually do fine.
Storm Cauldron was a new addition, and while I still think it is powerful, I can understand where you are coming from. If I can't replace enough lands that I bounce, it takes away from this decks mana advantage. On the other hand it does allow for very broken plays, so Im going to keep an eye on it while I test further.
EDH:
[Competitive] Azusa, Lost but Seeking (54 Lands)
[Competitive] Azami, Lady of Scrolls (Time Warp combo/control)
[Competitive] Kruphix, God of No (True EDH DrawGo)
EDIT: honestly I don't think I'd cut scrying sheets, it seems like a great secondary engine. if you were to cut yav elder i'd throw in Fierce Empath or maybe Riftsweeper
Everything combos with Tombstone Stairwell.
Cloudstone Curio which is broken with azusa anyway + Azusa + Rofellos Llanowar Emissary + haste provider like Concordant Crossroads, Lightning Greaves + Akroma's Memorial = infinite mana and infinite land drops assuming you have a way to start the loop if they're both already on the board.
Cloudstone curio + Alluren + Azusa + Any creature of 3cc of less
Infinite land drops. Mind u if that other creature has an awesome ETB effect its just gravy. Use this with Elvish Visionary to draw your entire deck while you get inifite land drops. :T
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
not true, each time you bounce and recast azusa she's considered a new object, therefore you are allowed two more "additional" land drops per turn.
EDH:
[Competitive] Azusa, Lost but Seeking (54 Lands)
[Competitive] Azami, Lady of Scrolls (Time Warp combo/control)
[Competitive] Kruphix, God of No (True EDH DrawGo)
The first was Life from the Loam for Hunter's Insight. Both of these cards fill the role of providing mid game card advantage so that I can continue to hit my land drops. There was a serious problem with Loam however, as certain situations would arise where I would stall out with Loam as my only draw engine. This is bad because although dredging loam finds me my land drops, it does not provide for anything else that affects the board, so I would essentially have to gamble with my draw step whether or not I wanted to dredge or draw one in hopes that I could top deck something relevant. Hunter's insight is a trade off that I was happy to make. It is less efficient in the early game as I will generally not get a good target for it before turn 4, but I feel that the first three draws combined with the 3-4 lands you're going to start with makes this manageable. The benefit is that I have a much more powerful draw spell in the late game.
The next switch was pretty simple really. Smokestack is good at denying my opponents tempo, but it is excruciatingly slow. In the mid game where I am sitting on 8-12 lands is a very mana hungry stage, and the ramp that this provides often will allow the broken plays to come out a turn or two earlier. Rude Awakening synergizes well with Mosswort Bridge, Vesuva, and Prime titan, is nuckign futs with Gaea's Cradle, is a sustainable mana engine with Eternal Witness and Praetor's Counsel, and provides the ability to kill an opponent with a board full of lands which was never before possible.
The biggest thing I am looking at now are taking out my fog engines in Glacial Chasm and Constant Mists. They both have saved me numerous times, but I've come to realize how awful it is having either of them in my opening 7. I definitely want to ax mists, but I've have more reservations about cutting Glacial Chasm, as it is tutor-able with Prime Titan, NO into Prime Titan, Crop Rotation, and Realms Uncharted. It is also recur-able with crucible and Petrified Field, and prevents non combat damage like ancient tomb and mana crypt. I have also been considering running hurricane/Squall Line as an alternate win, which synergizes nice with chasm.
Some other cards I am looking at right now are:
Bazaar of Baghdad
Memory Jar
Seedborne Muse (This may require a little restructuring, but I think its power level warrants it)
Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
Regal Force
EDH:
[Competitive] Azusa, Lost but Seeking (54 Lands)
[Competitive] Azami, Lady of Scrolls (Time Warp combo/control)
[Competitive] Kruphix, God of No (True EDH DrawGo)
PS: Is Tooth & Nailing for Avenger Regal fun?
That... makes sense I guess. Maze is pretty bad opening hand because it doesn't tap for mana, and I agree about it doing nothing to disrupt the opponent. Plus the protection shouldn't matter if I'm racing the slower aggro decks or playing against the tier one decks which don't attack (Arcum, Azami, Edric (does attack but maze doesnt stop mass creatures), Hermit Druid, Ad Nauseum, etc...).
I guess I could take it out for something else. Buried Ruin always seemed very powerful, but there just aren't enough strong artifacts in this deck to warrant its inclusion. For now, I could try swapping maze for Eldrazi Temple.
By mana rocks I'm sure you mean Sol Ring and Mana Crypt, which confuses me because I can't see any legitimate reason why you wouldn't want to run them. The sooner Azusa comes online, the sooner the deck can get going. Sol ring enables a turn two Azusa, and Mana Crypt is the only way to get Azusa turn 1 reliably, which allows for insane starts (In the year and a half that I have been playing this deck, I have more fingers than the amount of times I've lost a multiplayer game starting with Mana Crypt).
I like Seedborn muse, and I've seen how powerful it is, but untapping things like Yavimaya hollow and Rishadan port doesn't warrant its inclusion. I don't want to have to stretch and sacrifice tight spots for ways to abuse it. If there was a natural inclusion that synergized with seedborn, I'd run it in a heartbeat.
This brings me to the next part of your post which concerns Arena. I've considered it, but I feel that its ability costs too much for the situations in which I would have a good creature to use it with. If I have out a vorinclex or prime time or Eldrazi, I would surely have atleast 3 spare mana, but that mana would be better diverted to other parts of the game plan as opposed to killing a single creature. If Arena were closer to Contested Cliffs, were as I didnt have to sacrifice mana for its utility, I would put it in.
Constant Mists is already out for Memory Jar which has been really good.
Birthing Pod is alright, but for creature tutoring I have been considering Chord of Calling and GSZ. Plus there is a gap in my creature curve at 5 for pod and I wouldn't want to run Genesis to fill it, since I don't feel Genesis is a strong enough card.
EDH:
[Competitive] Azusa, Lost but Seeking (54 Lands)
[Competitive] Azami, Lady of Scrolls (Time Warp combo/control)
[Competitive] Kruphix, God of No (True EDH DrawGo)
Alright, I can submit the last point.
I dont agree with the rest though. Sure you have many ways to get turn 2 Azusa, but having more just means you'll have on average faster hands, which should always be beneficial. As for the second point, I feel that those cads dont come down until the mid/late game, at which sol ring/mana crypt will have already done enough. And I don't really understand the third point. Just seems like semantics to me.
Right now I'm looking at Terrain Generator as a replacement for maze, and trying to work in GSZ, and whether or not that warrants running another CIPT land in Dryad Arbor.
EDH:
[Competitive] Azusa, Lost but Seeking (54 Lands)
[Competitive] Azami, Lady of Scrolls (Time Warp combo/control)
[Competitive] Kruphix, God of No (True EDH DrawGo)
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
not very well in a heads up match. in ffa, if the control player is smart, they control magic azusa asap. the deck generally does not run enough threats to fight though the countermagic. if the control/rock players are smart, the break your draw engines and the deck folds whether you control azusa or not. against players who do not know how to handle the deck, it does amazing though. the thing that makes azusa so good is that people do not know how to handle the deck.
the real big plus is in ffa is that you are never really the threat until you start casting eldrazi 2-3 times a turn. there is always at least one other player who appears to be more threatening then you (little do they know!).
- Well, that's my main concern since my meta is all blue-based control decks or control/re-animator decks. I want to make a non-blue/black deck that will actually work and wreck games for kicks...
- I had an Azusa deck, but I wasn't very happy with it. Not enough draw! Regards of what deck I'm playing, draw is my biggest concern, tutors, removal and win conditions are my last on my list of priorities. I play with my friends who are very familiar with how I build my decks and most likely, they will expect what's going to happen. :P.
- I will have to steal some ideas from your list, but I will warp Azusa (whenever I build it) into land destruction as much as I can do, so in other words, Green-Karn, Silver Golem.
- I will attempt to run it as Oath of Druids build with Stax + Tutors to back it up.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
- you would be surprised how many cards azusa can draw a turn if left unchecked. azusa decks should be playing like 8 card draw engines (digging as deep as playing howling mines and things like that). when you get 2 of them in tandem...it can become pretty tough to keep you down.
-uhh....my lists are not posted anywhere. this guys list is meh.
-azusa stax is not a good idea in my opinion. stax decks should have a general who contributes to the stax lock. they need consistent access to a lock piece in their opening hand on top of that as well. azusa oath seems interesting, but i would much rather get the cast triggers off eldrazi then oathing them up. be wary of hitting avenger with oath. that could be disastrous for you!
I wouldn't agree with this sentiment at all. I play in two distinctive metas, and both times when I'm playing against competitive blue control decks (Arcum, Damia, Jhoria, my own Azami) my go to strategy is to apply mana denial to the player most likely to have countermagic as early as possible, and it almost always works. These sorts of decks are usually very mana hungry, and even something as small as using a wasteland on an untapped land and passing phases is enough to get by. This deck is fast enough and has enough resources to be able to simultaneously ramp and apply pressure early game so that blue control will crumple after a long enough time.
I take offense to this. This list has been tuned for a year and a half, and it performs amazingly, dominating games against top tier decks on a consistent basis. If there are questions you have about my list, feel free to ask, or if you'd like to post your list for comparison, feel free to do so, but don't make statements like this.
EDH:
[Competitive] Azusa, Lost but Seeking (54 Lands)
[Competitive] Azami, Lady of Scrolls (Time Warp combo/control)
[Competitive] Kruphix, God of No (True EDH DrawGo)
i count a total of 9 cards that could be used for mana denial. you will see approximately 1 within your first 10 cards. with no active draw engine, it will be harder to find one. half of your mana denial comes from lands. without an active crucible, those lands become less stellar and keeping a control player off counter mana. counterspells arent even the least of the worries that azusa pilots need to take into consideration. while you are keeping the control player in check, you are letting the combo player do his thing (you do not have symmetrical mana denial outside of tabernacle and sundering titan). that is far worse since azusa has almost no ways of interacting with combo outside of LD. i highly doubt the mana denial strategy is working as well as you make it out to be with all of these factors.
on the topic of how your deck is fast enough to apply pressure and disrupt...
it is obvious your deck is built for speed, but with that you are losing a lot of slots that could be used for more effective cards. things like mana rocks are something i do not understand in azusa lists. sure you can get a bit ahead on mana, but thats what your general is for. so what if they allow you to get an early draw engine out before the azusa cast...what happens when you peel one off the top with no draw engine in play and no hand? they do not trigger land fall, they do not count towards avengers token making ability, they do not put lands into play, and they do not beat face.
then again, if it works for your meta, more power to you. in my year of tinkering with azusa, i found them to be unnecessary and opted for more consistent cards.
first off, i never said your list is bad. i said its meh, as in its "whatever"...its okay...its nothing special. you play some good cards and some bad cards. i didnt mean to offend you, and i do apologize if i did. do i feel your list is as highly tuned as it can be? no. and marketing it as that way is not fair to the community. second, "dominating games against top tier decks" does not mean anything. when i first got to seattle, the top tier decks were starke of rath and rhys. does that mean they were good decks? no, but thats what was on top when i got here. and sure enough, azusa got through them with no problem. but azusa was never able to hang with the big dogs. back home, she could only come out to play when, teneb, azami, erayo, arcum, momir vig and sharruum were put away for the night.
You'd be surprised brah, you can sacrifice lands every turn to various Smokestack effects. Give it a shot, there's no harm in trying right?
Another question why no Sundering Titan and sacrifice outlets to make it nuts. What do you really lose from it triggering twice? 2 basic forest at most.
I just like land destruction way too much to play Sundering Titan and random Armageddon effects if I happen to be playing white.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
i have tried it actually, hahha. and various other smokestack decks in edh (stax has been my favorite deck for ages, and i play it in every format i can). i was only ever happy with 2 stax lists for edh... braids (which got banned) and erayo (which i built after braids got banned....and then i proceeded to get her banned, haha). i barely accept smokestack in karn
sundering titan, while extremely good dosent do much a lot of the time in well developed metas. hes usually crippling or a random fatty that hits a land or two on the way in and a land or two on the way out. very rarely do you get to hit 8-10 off of him. hes a meta card IMO.
Great to see another fellow Stax player, hello there.
He usually dominates the metas' where 3-colours rule, so it will at least destroy 2+ lands when it comes into play. If nothing it beats for 7 or trys to.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, and Exploration are in everyway completely necessary. Not running any other form of accel because youre general does it is really only a valid statement when talking about cards like Nature's Lore, Skyshroud Claim, and Rampant Growth. Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, and Exploration all give you turn 2 and 1 Azusa, and when its turn 2 and turn 1 its hard for anyone to stop her from hitting the table. 1/100 times youll have nothing but lands to play, and just sit on your ass because you got unlucky with your draws, the other 99 times youll be playing Recycle turn 2 or Gen Wave for 8 on turn 3, or Tooth and Nail. Azusa is natural card disadvantage so i can understand the thought that getting her on the table faster really just dumps your hand faster and youll have nothing to do. if you've built your deck properly, than that will almost never happen. Dropping Azusa turn 2 can allow for borderline banworthy plays a turn later, instead of on turn 4 or 5 where its a lot easier to control.
Yes it's built for speed, it's one of the fastest decks you can come across after being finely tuned so much. I can tell you from experience how consistantly a pain in the ass this deck can be, it takes more than 1 counterspell to shut down and even with everyone else at the table being at an equal power level, if the Azusa player has an opening hand Mana Crypt... better pray one of you has a force of will because hes going to be blowing down the gate. The acceleration that the 3 cards bring cannot be argued if the deck is consistant with them. Play a game with your deck against his and yours with whatever way you think is better, 99/100 times his deck will outperform or be more consistant, more often than it.
It seems to me your basing most of your opinion of Azusa on the decks you have experienced in your meta. The generals you mentioned are indeed extremely powerful but i'd put a well built Azusa deck like this one above everything you posted in terms of consistancy and power except for Azami and Arcum, and even then it would be an even match there. This is not your average Azusa deck, looking at a list online can't properly show you that.
I don't mean to sound condescending, but many of the statements you made are incredibly ignorant, and only seem to point toward meta experience, nothing more. Through all the metas i've been through i could count on 1 hand the number of decks that can consistantly keep up with this one, and none of them were part of your list. I apologize for the verbose response, but ive seen first hand how explosive this deck is, and seeing a myriad of comments belittling its power level without adequate explanation is aggravating.