Personally I am not a fan of combo decks, but sometimes I run across a few player who are and I want a deck that can compete with their play style.
I don’t have a lot of chances to play this deck (mostly goldfishing); therefore, I am wondering if anyone has any suggestions on changes that can be made to the list?
the power of zur is how he puts enchantments into play. they do not target. I like most of the list but think you should put alot more encantments in it. diplomatic immunity is a must. making zur almost indestructable. even though you give him shroud, you can still put more enchantments on him using his ability. emperial armor next sounds fun. would you like to shackles a creature with swiftfoot boots. all of these things are now possible using zur. the ruling is on the gatherer if you would like to look for yourself. zur is amazing just have a few counters ready when he hits the feild. cloak of invisiblity and time and tide [hopefully on isochron scepter] will help through a wrath. ghostly prison, island sanctuary, and propaganda keep most attacking threats in check. I realize you are taking a totally different approach to him. But I just dont feel this list uses him to his full potential.
The deck has a high likelihood of going off on turn 4.
You are not being trolled. The reason your strategy is pretty bad is because you can kill one person on turn 4 or 5 but then you will get owned by the remaining players that are a live.
Diplomatic Immunity and Phasing are more viable strategies because Zur will be protected and you will slowly win the game in a more consistent way.
The second you're playing Zur everyone is only gunning at you. I know this because I played the deck.
Goblin Chalbercher? Cool you kill one of the 4-5 players, and went all in. Good luck surviving after everyone is going to kill you.
Have infinite mana? Cool. How many spells or abilities can you abuse? How do many win conditions do you have with your beloved infinite mana? Just Exsanguinate? Only 1 or 2 win conds?
Solitary Confinement? Naturalize. There's tons of ways of getting rid of a pesky enchantment. Sure it could buy you 2-3 turns. But it is not as reliable as Zur on roids hitting every turn
Tendrils is cool but you can't tutor the storm combo with Zur and it is definitely not going to go off anywhere near turn 4 as you say.
You are not being trolled. The reason your strategy is pretty bad is because you can kill one person on turn 4 or 5 but then you will get owned by the remaining players that are a live.
Out of curiosity, do you have any experience playing combo decks? With Tendrils of Agony or Exsanguinate you can take out the table. Depending on what your hand looks like and board position you take out anywhere from one player, two players or an entire table with Goblin Charbelcher in the same turn.
Goblin Chalbercher? Cool you kill one of the 4-5 players, and went all in. Good luck surviving after everyone is going to kill you.
Being able to stack my deck after I take out the first player seems like a solid strategy especially if there is a way to draw a card and play either the Tezzeret or Mind Over Matter that is sitting on top of my library. Infinite mana helps in this scenario too.
Have infinite mana? Cool. How many spells or abilities can you abuse? How do many win conditions do you have with your beloved infinite mana? Just Exsanguinate? Only 1 or 2 win conds?
Being able to play a lot of the cards in my hand from Ad Nauseam is a pretty good use of infinite mana. Most of the cards are tutors to go find the win condition and protect it at this point.
Tendrils is cool but you can't tutor the storm combo with Zur and it is definitely not going to go off anywhere near turn 4 as you say.
Having tutors or ways of drawing lots of cards get around not having all the pieces in my hand at any given time. Assemble the win condition that is the easiest to go off on.
Learn how combo works and how to play it then you might understand what this deck is about.
Don't worry man, these guys are clowns. I doubt they even have a semi competitive deck. I saw your comment about EDH deck prices, old cards inflate your deck way more than foils do.
This deck is funny, unique Zur tutors up the combo, not boring general damage with 6 Armageddon effects.
One thing you probably expect is that your deck is actually very easy to shut down in a multiplayer format. It is your deck, and you may love to play it your way. I understand this. However, your deck will be more stable with additional control. I have no other problems with how you've built your deck. It looks great. And it looks incredibly fast. You should realize that when you list your deck on here, you're going to get other players input. That is one of the main purposes of posting a deck list in a forum. Otherwise you could just be showing off your deck, including the incredible price of the cards you've acquired. When you ask for suggestions, you should expect some from every play group. Your reaction makes me almost afraid to post any such offerings.
EDH Decklists
:symr::symg::symw: Uril, the Butt Face
:symw::symb: Teysa - Peaceful Hate
:symb::symg: Glissa, the Traitor
:symg::symu: Experimental Kraj
:symg::symr::symb: Audun Oakenshield
One thing you probably expect is that your deck is actually very easy to shut down in a multiplayer format. It is your deck, and you may love to play it your way. I understand this. However, your deck will be more stable with additional control. I have no other problems with how you've built your deck. It looks great. And it looks incredibly fast. You should realize that when you list your deck on here, you're going to get other players input. That is one of the main purposes of posting a deck list in a forum. Otherwise you could just be showing off your deck, including the incredible price of the cards you've acquired. When you ask for suggestions, you should expect some from every play group. Your reaction makes me almost afraid to post any such offerings.
I know this deck can be shut down. I also know that if I went into a normal four player game with this deck I’d be the immediate target of all the other players hate. I rarely play it (I have about 8 different decks sleeved up) and I wanted a combo deck that can take on other combo decks. I had Hermit Druid combo together, but that deck is too narrow and very boring to pilot. Basically, I play this deck when an opponent is running a non-interactive deck, something degenerate or mass land destruction.
The deck came from the Source forum. There hasn’t been much talk about it on that site lately. The input I’m looking for is from that small subset of players that understand combo. When someone suggests to cut the Storm/infinite combo win for a traditional Zur build they’ve completely missed what the deck does or just have never seen something like it before. It’s not hard to figure out that Zur gets Necropotence or Power Artifact. One legit suggestion I’ve seen is to cut the permission and go all in. Then again if you’re familiar with Legacy combo this deck is more like playing Doomsday Tendrils.
I’d like to hear suggestions, but I expect them to be educated suggestions. Not cut the combo, run Diplomatic Immunity and swing for the win.
Rings of brighthearth could work as extra redundancy for the infinite mana combo with basalt monolith. Drift of phantasms can tutor for either side of the combo, bounce or blue sun's zenith, so it could be a useful addition as well.
Orim's chant is better than misdirection for protection. Abeyance could be powerful as well. Grand abolisher if necessary. The three on-color familiars could work as well, although they might be too fragile.
Ancient spring and city of traitors could work for more mana acceleration if necessary.
Looking at this deck I find it really intriguing. The problem of course is that I love the building of this deck and I really enjoy following the branching decisions trees to find the answer to how to win the game, but that other people sitting around me are thinking they want to literally strangle me for taking 20 minute turns that end with them either conceding or simply me doing nothing but cast 7 spells and fizzle. This is a classic deck that I will build and play once and then disassemble because everyone else will hate it. Yet strangely I am drawn to it, especially since it features one of the most broken generals in the game.
Suggestions, have you considered Griselbrand? I know you have probably not revisited this list in awhile, but I think he merits inclusion as an alternative Necro or another route to broken card draw if your General is somehow tucked.
Suggestions, have you considered Griselbrand? I know you have probably not revisited this list in awhile, but I think he merits inclusion as an alternative Necro or another route to broken card draw if your General is somehow tucked.
I thought about Griselbrand, but I don’t think he fits into the deck very well. Necropotence and Ad Nauseam are the two main ways to fill up my hand. Both are much easier and quicker to tutor for and play. At that point Griselbrand doesn’t really help.
I like the idea, but I feel it is too slow.
My buddy put together a Griselbrand deck and we played over twenty games this weekend. (They went fast.) Aggressively being able to tutor for an answer to Griselbrand made most games a blowout (in my favor). Keep in mind both decks were designed for multiplayer and some changes could have easily been made to convert the deck back to the 1v1 list. I could have put in Duress, Thoughseize, Spellpierce and Pithing Needle. Maybe Stifle and Trickbind if I really wanted to load up on counterspells.
Since both decks were on par with one another the games were a lot of fun to play.
Hurkyl's Recall has always had mixed results. It's really nice against signets/talismans but useless vs sol ring/crypt. It's always really nice bouncing an artifact land or two though.
Needle is one of those cards that needs to get run more.
Hurkyl's Recall has always had mixed results. It's really nice against signets/talismans but useless vs sol ring/crypt. It's always really nice bouncing an artifact land or two though.
Best Case: Hurkyl's Recall can either be used to fuel my storm, mana production or bounce an opponents artifacts before resolving a draw 7.
Tidespout Tyrant is usually slow to get down, but once it is there I have infinite mana/storm. It is one out of 99 that can end a game once it hits the table. I usually throw it away if it’s in my opening hand, but enjoy seeing it after a few turns have gone by.
I know this is kind of an older thread, but I'd figure I'd ask anyway, what are your thoughts on Phyrexian Unlife? The way I see it, that + Necropotence + Solitary Confinement means you're able to draw out your whole deck. Then a next turn (or same turn if you have the mana open) Omniscience = win? I know thats quite a few cards to combo, just a suggestion, though.
I play a Zur deck that is similar to this one but it plays not combos like power artifact and grim/basalt monolith it runs a storm win by using untap effects on lands that have been affected by the multiple high tide and bubbling muck (the black high tide for swamps) and I have a few suggestions for you. My meta has almost no fast decks and when I originally built Zur it was the most streamlined boring voltron deck you could imagine but one weekend at my lgs I wanted to make something with some creativity to it so I took some cards from my ant legacy deck and cobbled together a storm deck That storms into tendrils of agony with enough storm to set everyone's life totals to twenty or less anand making 10 mana and casting Debt to the deathless. Now here comes the part where my advice will probably not apply at all is that the meta I play in has 6 players who are veteran magic players ( not including me being 14)so if your meta is fast and you need a turn 4 to 5 win this probably not apply.
My changes dictate of kruphix->dark confident
My reasoning behind this is that you don't have to take damage from bob and dark tutelage and that to find bob you ether have to draw him to use him and if Zur gets countered on the way out congratulations there's one less immediate threat to that draw 7 you just cast ( unless of course someone is playing graveyard retrevial or flashback spells) siphon mind->blue sun's zenith
This change depends on the size of the game your playing in (at my lgs we play 8 player pods) but it can in most cases be a more effective draw spell pre combo turn as a setup card say draw seven on their end step and then untap and storm your way to victory turn five
Add ing mana severance
My resoning to say this is not a charbelcher combo but just that on the combo turn that a land is going to almost always be a dead draw or 1% wasted trying to dig for a minds disre
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1x Zur the Enchanter
Creatures (5)
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Dark Confidant
1x Trinket Mage
1x Magus of the Future
1x Tidespout Tyrant
Enchantments (7)
1x Power Artifact
1x Dark Tutlage
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Necropotence
1x Solitary Confinement
1x Future Sight
1x Mind Over Matter
Instants (20)
1x Pact of Negation
1x Chain of Vapor
1x High Tide
1x Brainstorm
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Dark Ritual
1x Silence
1x Muddle the Mixture
1x Remand
1x Mana Drain
1x Snap
1x Frantic Search
1x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Rushing River
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Turnabout
1x Force of Will
1x Misdirection
1x Ad Nauseam
1x Blue Sun’s Zenith
1x Ponder
1x Preordain
1x Imperial Seal
1x Merchant Scroll
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Exsanguinate
1x Fabricate
1x Windfall
1x Timetwister
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Grim Tutor
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Time Spiral
1x Mind's Desire
1x Recurring Insight
Artifacts (21)
1x Lotus Petal
1x Lion's Eye Diamond
1x Mox Diamond
1x Chrome Mox
1x Mox Opal
1x Mana Crypt
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Vault
1x Pithing Needle
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sapphire Medallion
1x Helm of Awakening
1x Dimir Signet
1x Azorius Signet
1x Talisman of Dominance
1x Talisman of Progress
1x Grim Monolith
1x Basalt Monolith
1x Cloud Key
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Memory Jar
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Lands (29)
8x Island
1x Swamp
1x Underground Sea
1x Tundra
1x Scrubland
1x Watery Grave
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Godless Shrine
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Glacial Fortress
1x Sunken Ruins
1x Fetid Heath
1x Command Tower
1x City of Brass
1x Polluted Delta
1x Flooded Strand
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Marsh Flats
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1x Tolaria West
1x Ancient Tomb
I came across this list from The Source forums and I made a few tweaks to better suit it for multiplayer.
Duress -> Windfall
Thoughtsieze -> Time Reversal
Spell Pierce -> Silence
Pithing Needle -> Tezzeret the Seeker
Dark Tutelage -> Exsanguinate
Personally I am not a fan of combo decks, but sometimes I run across a few player who are and I want a deck that can compete with their play style.
I don’t have a lot of chances to play this deck (mostly goldfishing); therefore, I am wondering if anyone has any suggestions on changes that can be made to the list?
Updates:
Time Reversal -> Spell Pierce
Oblivion Ring -> Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Island -> Command Tower
Mana Sevance -> Blue Sun’s Zenith
Goblin Charbelcher -> Dark Tutlage
Tezzeret, the Seeker -> Lion's Eye Diamond
Spell Pierce -> Snapcaster Mage
Pictures:
[spoiler=General and basics
][/spoiler]
[spoiler=Duals and multicolored lands
][/spoiler]
[spoiler=Fetches and other lands
][/spoiler]
[spoiler=Artifact mana
][/spoiler]
[spoiler=More mana accel
][/spoiler]
[spoiler=Tutors
][/spoiler]
[spoiler=Draw
][/spoiler]
[spoiler=More draw
][/spoiler]
[spoiler=Protection][/spoiler]
[spoiler=Combo pieces and finshers
][/spoiler]
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of Jund
UTeferi, Mage of Zhalfir
UBWZur the Enchanter
WUBRGChild of Alara
WUBRGSliver Queen
Zur’s main objective is to tutor out Necropotence to sculpt a winning combo hand, Power Artifact to set up infinite mana or Solitary Confinement to buy some time.
The deck has a high likelihood of going off on turn 4.
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of Jund
UTeferi, Mage of Zhalfir
UBWZur the Enchanter
WUBRGChild of Alara
WUBRGSliver Queen
You are not being trolled. The reason your strategy is pretty bad is because you can kill one person on turn 4 or 5 but then you will get owned by the remaining players that are a live.
Diplomatic Immunity and Phasing are more viable strategies because Zur will be protected and you will slowly win the game in a more consistent way.
The second you're playing Zur everyone is only gunning at you. I know this because I played the deck.
Goblin Chalbercher? Cool you kill one of the 4-5 players, and went all in. Good luck surviving after everyone is going to kill you.
Have infinite mana? Cool. How many spells or abilities can you abuse? How do many win conditions do you have with your beloved infinite mana? Just Exsanguinate? Only 1 or 2 win conds?
Solitary Confinement? Naturalize. There's tons of ways of getting rid of a pesky enchantment. Sure it could buy you 2-3 turns. But it is not as reliable as Zur on roids hitting every turn
Tendrils is cool but you can't tutor the storm combo with Zur and it is definitely not going to go off anywhere near turn 4 as you say.
Out of curiosity, do you have any experience playing combo decks? With Tendrils of Agony or Exsanguinate you can take out the table. Depending on what your hand looks like and board position you take out anywhere from one player, two players or an entire table with Goblin Charbelcher in the same turn.
This deck is not attempting to win through General damage. The cards you’re suggesting only hurt the combos since they get in the way of better cards.
Being able to stack my deck after I take out the first player seems like a solid strategy especially if there is a way to draw a card and play either the Tezzeret or Mind Over Matter that is sitting on top of my library. Infinite mana helps in this scenario too.
Being able to play a lot of the cards in my hand from Ad Nauseam is a pretty good use of infinite mana. Most of the cards are tutors to go find the win condition and protect it at this point.
Having tutors or ways of drawing lots of cards get around not having all the pieces in my hand at any given time. Assemble the win condition that is the easiest to go off on.
Learn how combo works and how to play it then you might understand what this deck is about.
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of Jund
UTeferi, Mage of Zhalfir
UBWZur the Enchanter
WUBRGChild of Alara
WUBRGSliver Queen
This deck is funny, unique Zur tutors up the combo, not boring general damage with 6 Armageddon effects.
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of Jund
UTeferi, Mage of Zhalfir
UBWZur the Enchanter
WUBRGChild of Alara
WUBRGSliver Queen
EDH Decklists
:symr::symg::symw: Uril, the Butt Face
:symw::symb: Teysa - Peaceful Hate
:symb::symg: Glissa, the Traitor
:symg::symu: Experimental Kraj
:symg::symr::symb: Audun Oakenshield
I know this deck can be shut down. I also know that if I went into a normal four player game with this deck I’d be the immediate target of all the other players hate. I rarely play it (I have about 8 different decks sleeved up) and I wanted a combo deck that can take on other combo decks. I had Hermit Druid combo together, but that deck is too narrow and very boring to pilot. Basically, I play this deck when an opponent is running a non-interactive deck, something degenerate or mass land destruction.
The deck came from the Source forum. There hasn’t been much talk about it on that site lately. The input I’m looking for is from that small subset of players that understand combo. When someone suggests to cut the Storm/infinite combo win for a traditional Zur build they’ve completely missed what the deck does or just have never seen something like it before. It’s not hard to figure out that Zur gets Necropotence or Power Artifact. One legit suggestion I’ve seen is to cut the permission and go all in. Then again if you’re familiar with Legacy combo this deck is more like playing Doomsday Tendrils.
I’d like to hear suggestions, but I expect them to be educated suggestions. Not cut the combo, run Diplomatic Immunity and swing for the win.
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of Jund
UTeferi, Mage of Zhalfir
UBWZur the Enchanter
WUBRGChild of Alara
WUBRGSliver Queen
Orim's chant is better than misdirection for protection. Abeyance could be powerful as well. Grand abolisher if necessary. The three on-color familiars could work as well, although they might be too fragile.
Ancient spring and city of traitors could work for more mana acceleration if necessary.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
Suggestions, have you considered Griselbrand? I know you have probably not revisited this list in awhile, but I think he merits inclusion as an alternative Necro or another route to broken card draw if your General is somehow tucked.
I thought about Griselbrand, but I don’t think he fits into the deck very well. Necropotence and Ad Nauseam are the two main ways to fill up my hand. Both are much easier and quicker to tutor for and play. At that point Griselbrand doesn’t really help.
I like the idea, but I feel it is too slow.
My buddy put together a Griselbrand deck and we played over twenty games this weekend. (They went fast.) Aggressively being able to tutor for an answer to Griselbrand made most games a blowout (in my favor). Keep in mind both decks were designed for multiplayer and some changes could have easily been made to convert the deck back to the 1v1 list. I could have put in Duress, Thoughseize, Spellpierce and Pithing Needle. Maybe Stifle and Trickbind if I really wanted to load up on counterspells.
Since both decks were on par with one another the games were a lot of fun to play.
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of Jund
UTeferi, Mage of Zhalfir
UBWZur the Enchanter
WUBRGChild of Alara
WUBRGSliver Queen
Prismatic Lens -> Pithing Needle
I’m also thinking about adding in Hurkyl's Recall because of the amount of artifact ramp that goes along with these types of decks.
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of Jund
UTeferi, Mage of Zhalfir
UBWZur the Enchanter
WUBRGChild of Alara
WUBRGSliver Queen
Needle is one of those cards that needs to get run more.
Best Case: Hurkyl's Recall can either be used to fuel my storm, mana production or bounce an opponents artifacts before resolving a draw 7.
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of Jund
UTeferi, Mage of Zhalfir
UBWZur the Enchanter
WUBRGChild of Alara
WUBRGSliver Queen
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of Jund
UTeferi, Mage of Zhalfir
UBWZur the Enchanter
WUBRGChild of Alara
WUBRGSliver Queen
WUBRGUnexpected Results
WBRAggro Burn Flicker
EDH:
GOmnath, Locust of Mana (Retired)
BUSygg, River Cutthroat
RBosh, Iron Golem
My changes
dictate of kruphix->dark confident
My reasoning behind this is that you don't have to take damage from bob and dark tutelage and that to find bob you ether have to draw him to use him and if Zur gets countered on the way out congratulations there's one less immediate threat to that draw 7 you just cast ( unless of course someone is playing graveyard retrevial or flashback spells)
siphon mind->blue sun's zenith
This change depends on the size of the game your playing in (at my lgs we play 8 player pods) but it can in most cases be a more effective draw spell pre combo turn as a setup card say draw seven on their end step and then untap and storm your way to victory turn five
Add ing mana severance
My resoning to say this is not a charbelcher combo but just that on the combo turn that a land is going to almost always be a dead draw or 1% wasted trying to dig for a minds disre