Hey all,
I've been putting a fair amount of time into developing my Brion Stoutarm deck recently. While I won't claim to have any new or amazing ideas, I will say that this is a really fun and splashy deck that can randomly kill someone out of nowhere. If you've read my Teneb primer (in my sig), you'll note that I'm very big on synergies and card interactions, and not so much on dumb combos or unfair things like Time Stretch and Emrakul.
- Brion obviously likes to fling dudes. However, I discovered that just playing big fatties is kinda slow and cumbersome. Furthermore, my deck naturally seemed to gravitate towards equipment as a way to boost the power of creatures that wanted to be flung, so eventually I started cutting fatties in favor of smaller stuff and better equipment.
- Equipment is another sub-theme. There are three equipment tutors, and I would probably add Quest for the Holy Relic if I wasn't so light on castable creatures. Leonin Shikari is also very useful, especially when combined with shroud equipment (instant-speed Lightning Greaves is incredible).
- There is also a pretty good Sunforger package with tutorable answers to most problems. I recently tutored up a Ricochet Trap for a Time Stretch, which was awesome. Unfortunately, I could not search for Wild Ricochet because it was already in hand and I only had two mana up. The Wild Ricochet-Time Stretch combo is my ultimate goal for this deck.
- The last sub-theme of this deck is life-gain. Since Brion naturally gains life whenever he flings a dude, it followed that I should add in Cradle of Vitality and a few other life-gain triggers in order to provide a continuous power boost to remaining creatures. This strategy has also worked very well. Recently, I grew and flung a Stoneforge Mystic with over 40 power and toughness.
- Adarkar Valkyrie: Synergy with Brion. When I fling a non-token, I can get it back. Need to determine if Nim Deathmantle is just better, or if both are good.
- Archon of Justice: Removal + synergy with Brion. This guy likes to be flung, and he can get rid of anything I don't like (even Eldrazi Monsters).
- Battlegrace Angel: Life gain + big body. This card has been surprisingly good.
- Bloodshot Cyclops: Another Brion, that targets creatures but doesn't gain life (without help).
- Conquering Manticore: A big body plus a free Threaten effect seems pretty good.
- Duregar Hedge-Mage: Not the best body, but it's got the right cost and it could get two for one.
- Eternal Dragon: Digs up Plains, including Mistveil Plains and Plateau. Also doesn't mind being flung.
- Hoard-Smelter Dragon: Big body, nukes artifacts to get even bigger.
- Homura, Human Ascendant: Synergy with Brion. He loves to be flung so that he can make future flings that much better.
- Karmic Guide: Recursion. A staple in any white EDH deck.
- Kemba, Kha Regent: Synergy with Brion, equipment. Since I'm naturally running equipment, Kemba seems like a natural inclusion. So far, I've only seen her once, and she had to chump-block immediately. Still need to test more with her.
- Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker: The best red card in the format, hands down. The copies he makes happen to be great for Brion to fling.
- Leonin Shikari: Part of the equipment package. Putting on Lightning Greaves, etc, at instant speed is very nice.
- Solemn Simulacrum: Solid card, happens to fling nicely.
- Stalking Vengeance: Synergy with Brion. When something gets flung, this guy delivers extra damage.
- Stoneforge Mystic: Equipment tutor. Can also cheat equipment into play. Generally solid card.
- Stonehewer Giant: Re-usable equipment tutor, big body. Even better when hasty.
- Sun Titan: Recursion. Lots of permanents, including all equipment, are 3cc or less. Happens to have a big body to boot.
- Weathered Wayfarer: Land tutor. Gets all the important lands, including Emeria and Kor Haven.
- Windbrisk Raptor: Big body, lots of life gain.
- Boros Signet: Ramps and fixes.
- Darksteel Ingot:Fixes, ramps, can't be blown up. 'Nuf said.
- Everflowing Chalice: Cheap artifact ramping.
- Grim Monolith: Cheap artifact ramping.
- Mana Vault: Cheap artifact ramping.
- Mind's Eye: There aren't many good draw spells in red/white, but this is one of them.
- Mind Stone: Cheap artifact ramping, plus it synergies with Sun Titan for more draw power.
- Phyrexian Processor: Synergy with Brion. Makes lots of big dudes to fling at other people.
- Rings of Brighthearth: Synergy with Brion, others. There are lots of good activated abilities to copy in this deck.
- Scroll Rack: Smooths out draws, digs deeper into library for better cards.
- Sol Ring: Cheap artifact ramping.
- Thousand-Year Elixir: "Ability-haste" is pretty nice for a lot of creatures, and untapping one of them is even better.
- Thran Dynamo: I was going to cut this card, but three extra mana is a lot.
- Voltaic Key: Besides the usual interaction with mana artifacts, it can also untap the Processor and the Vat for more fun.
- Worn Powerstone: Cheap artifact ramping.
- Basilisk Collar: Grants lifelink cheaper than Loxodon Warhammer. Deathtouch is a nice bonus.
- Lightning Greaves: A format staple. 'Nuf said.
- Skullclamp: Great for drawing cards off a fling, or just off a token.
- Sunforger: All of my trick spells fit into this neat little package. It can get remove, redirect, or copy any spell that might get cast. Works especially well with Mistveil Plains. Need to get a Tithe to complete this package.
- Sword of Fire and Ice: Pump, draw, protection, and removal all in one. Just a great card.
- Sword of Light and Shadow: Life gain and resurrection are nice. Not a good interaction with Cradle of Vitality, however.
- Sword of Vengeance: Another solid buff equipment. The trample buff makes Loxodon Warhammer obsolete, and the other buffs are all equally useful.
- Umezawa's Jitte: All three choices are useful here. Another format staple.
- Aura of Silence: Keeps other permanents at bay, can combine well with Sun Titan for recurring removal.
- Cradle of Vitality: Synergy with Brion, other life gain. Best at making another fling target after Brion flings the first one.
- Land Tax: White's best source of land fixing.
- Mobilization: A source of bodies for Brion to fling. Not sure if this is better than having creature spells. Need to test this further.
- Sacred Mesa: Same as Mobilization. Finally got one of these, need to test it out.
- Vicious Shadows: Synergy with Brion. Hasn't seen much play yet, but it's good when it comes out.
All of these are part of the Sunforger package.
- Blind with Anger: Only instant that can steal a creature.
- Enlightened Tutor: Probably the best card in the deck. Instant speed tutor, digs for any combo piece I need.
- Orim's Thunder: Tutorable removal. Kicker can be paid off Sunforger, so it usually gets two things.
- Path to Exile: Cheap, efficient, tutorable removal.
- Reiterate: Tutorable trick. Buyback can be paid off Sunforger.
- Return to Dust: Tutorable removal. Strictly better than regular Disenchants.
- Swords to Plowshares: Cheap, efficient, tutorable removal.
- Tempest of Light: Tutorable removal. Not sure if I'd play an artifact sweeper like this one. Particularly good against Helix Pinnacle.
- Wild Ricochet: Tutorable trick. The best answer to Time Stretch and Bribery.
- Austere Command: The best white sweeper available.
- Rout: Instant-speed sweeper.
As for new directions to take this deck, I'm looking to lower the curve a little and get some more synergies with Sun Titan, who is quickly becoming a new pet card of mine (next to Reveillark). A lot of the new cards I would like to add will be judged on their casting cost.
- Congregate: A situational card that might be nice to pull out of a Sunforger against token decks.
- Emerge Unscathed: This might be nice to add to the Sunforger package.
- Giant Harbinger: Tutors for my general, Sun Titan, and Stonehewer Giant - two key cards plus my general.
- Godo, Bandit Warlord: Another equipment tutor would be nice, but he's quite expensive, and a little harder to get online.
- Hateflayer: Big body + removal, might get another chance.
- Hoarding Dragon: It would be another equipment tutor, but anything that RFG's a permanent is very risky. Probably needs a few more sacrifice outlets in order to ensure that I don't get blown out.
- Mimic Vat: Synergy with Brion, protection from removal. Makes lots of Brion fodder, saves things from removal (sort of), and can grab other people's stuff to fling.
- Nim Deathmantle: Seems like it could be very useful with fling effects.
- Steel Hellkite: Big body, pumpable, has its own removal.
- Sylvok Lifestaff: Cheap, life-gain, triggers when the creature gets flung. Definitely worth a try.
- Taurean Mauler: Another card I need to acquire.
- Tithe: Fetches Mistveil Plains and fits in the Sunforger package. In as soon as I acquire it.
- Well of Lost Dreams: Extra draw power seems good, albeit a bit situational.
- Sword of Light and Shadow: I'm still a little light on creature spells, so the Raise Dead part is kinda weak, and this thing has a very negative interaction with Cradle of Vitality.
- Adarkar Valkyrie: Great card, but a huge removal magnet, and there are quite a few conditions that need to happen before I can use it.
- Kemba, Kha Regent: Like the Valkyrie, a great card, but a huge removal magnet and a lot of things need to happen for it to be good. Might be better as a general, although I despise mono-white.
- Cataclysm: It's been very situational for me. Sometimes it wins me games (like if I keep an equipped creature on the board) and sometimes it's just not good enough (like when someone plays a Primeval Titan).
As always, comments and critiques are appreciated. Thanks for reading!
I've updated my original post to include the full list of spells and lands. I still have a few issues to work out with the mana base (specifically the basic land counts), but I would still appreciate a few critiques on the deck, if possible. I'm specifically looking for ways to bring in some of the new stuff from Scars, and possibly things that could get cut.
I'll also post results from EDH night on Thursday later this week...it's Brion's turn in the rotation after Teneb got me two wins last week.
you should run Yosei deathrender a small creature an enduring renewal and Yomiji who bars the way that equals a lock if you got mana didn't see a thornebite staff it untaps Brion and Kiki if you run Yomiji run Emurkal for infinite turns lol just fun I know you don't want to but its a wincon in my brion deck Yomiji. can win games
you should run Yosei deathrender a small creature an enduring renewal and Yomiji who bars the way that equals a lock if you got mana didn't see a thornebite staff it untaps Brion and Kiki if you run Yomiji run Emurkal for infinite turns lol just fun I know you don't want to but its a wincon in my brion deck Yomiji. can win games
First off, please try to include card tags or at least a little punctuation. It would make your posts easier to digest.
As for your suggestions, I'll try to defend my choices on why I didn't include them:
- I can't stand Emrakul. It's just no fun for anyone because it prevents people from playing the game. Half the fun in this format is being able to interact with opponents, and Emrakul prevents that. So, he won't be coming into any of my lists in the near future. Plus, I think our store has a house rule that bans him.
- Yosei, the Morning Star: I put it in the category of overcosted fatties. When someone sets out to build a Brion deck, they naturally assume that bigger creatures make better flings, so they feel like they need to load up on the fatties (like Yosei). However, this makes the deck very slow and cumbersome because you spend all your resources on casting one big dude, and if you can't fling it immediately, there's a good chance that someone will get rid of it before you can untap again. Conversely, if you play some smaller guys, you can wait until you are ready to fling the guy before making him huge, and you don't have to make such a huge initial investment that could be wiped out before you can fling. It's basically a way to reduce the risk of getting blown out.
- Yomiji, Who Bars the Way: Aside from the whole over-costed creature argument, this guy doesn't make the cut because there aren't that many legends in my list. If this were a Captain Sisay deck, he'd be in there.
- Deathrender: I used to run this card, but I'm a little too light on actual creature spells to make it good enough. I'd much rather have Nim Deathmantle instead.
- Enduring Renewal: Might be worth a try, but it doesn't strike me as being insane enough to make it over some other stuff. I could be wrong.
In general, I don't really care for that combo because it would be very difficult to assemble. There's almost no tutoring or draw power in red/white, and three or more card combos almost never work even if I had more tutoring.
One last thing: if you're going to suggest more cards to put in, please try to suggest some things that should get cut to make room for them.
Thanks for the input, though. I appreciate the time you took to make it.
i don't know much about brion, but i do know plenty about sunforger.
-if you want to use sunforger (or equipment in general), steelshaper's gift should be an auto-include.
-#1 most important sunforger card for a multiplayer game: tithe. why? it fetches mistveil plains, which lets you keep recycling your spells over and over. otherwise you only get one shot at each one.
if you want to, you can throw in something like dawn charm for constant damage prevention with mistveil too. and personally i'm always surprised at how awesome magnetic theft ends up being, but maybe that's just me. also, auriok windwalker is tech. and oblation = i accidentally your general.
EDIT: and seriously, your store banned emrakul? erm, why? he's not even that good. actually sort of terrible unless it's only 3 player EDH.
i don't know much about brion, but i do know plenty about sunforger.
-if you want to use sunforger (or equipment in general), steelshaper's gift should be an auto-include.
-#1 most important sunforger card for a multiplayer game: tithe. why? it fetches mistveil plains, which lets you keep recycling your spells over and over. otherwise you only get one shot at each one.
if you want to, you can throw in something like dawn charm for constant damage prevention with mistveil too. and personally i'm always surprised at how awesome magnetic theft ends up being, but maybe that's just me. also, auriok windwalker is tech. and oblation = i accidentally your general.
EDIT: and seriously, your store banned emrakul? erm, why? he's not even that good. actually sort of terrible unless it's only 3 player EDH.
Good stuff, sir. I like your thinking.
- Steelshaper's Gift: Seems like a worse version of Enlightened Tutor. While I certainly have a small package for the Sunforger, I'm not looking to build exclusively around it. It's merely one of the key pieces in the deck.
- Tithe: Definitely on my list of things to get for this deck. Unfortunately, it's an oldie, so I'll probably have to eBay it. I'm guessing it will be worth it.
- Dawn Charm: Sounds quite good. I'll certainly pick one up to try it out.
- Magnetic Theft: This one seems like a rather small effect. I think I'd rather have Shikari or Windwalker.
- Auriok Windwalker: I was not aware of him, but I like his ability. If only he were a three-drop...
- Oblation: I can think of a few generals I'd like to shuffle (Omnath), and it's probably better than Condemn. Definitely worth trying.
I'll have to confirm the Emrakul ban later this week.
EDIT: Any thoughts on what to cut from my current list for these guys?
Good stuff, sir. I like your thinking.
- Steelshaper's Gift: Seems like a worse version of Enlightened Tutor. While I certainly have a small package for the Sunforger, I'm not looking to build exclusively around it. It's merely one of the key pieces in the deck.
- Tithe: Definitely on my list of things to get for this deck. Unfortunately, it's an oldie, so I'll probably have to eBay it. I'm guessing it will be worth it.
- Dawn Charm: Sounds quite good. I'll certainly pick one up to try it out.
- Magnetic Theft: This one seems like a rather small effect. I think I'd rather have Shikari or Windwalker.
- Auriok Windwalker: I was not aware of him, but I like his ability. If only he were a three-drop...
- Oblation: I can think of a few generals I'd like to shuffle (Omnath), and it's probably better than Condemn. Definitely worth trying.
I'll have to confirm the Emrakul ban later this week.
EDIT: Any thoughts on what to cut from my current list for these guys?
steelshaper's gift is way, way better than enlightened tutor for equipment because it puts it into your HAND, not on top of your deck. it's like if enlightened tutor had cantrip. it's an easy first-turn drop, and since you've got a lot of equipment you can get the one that fits the situation best. enlightened tutor is nice because you can sunforger it (and obviously it's more flexible), but you really want to run both with the number of equipments you're using.
oblation is sick because you can cast it WHENEVER, not just when they attack. someone threatens to do something nasty, so you counter-threaten to bury their general in a deep, dark hole. and all you need on the field is your sunforger. and you can also use it to save something you like from removal, and draw some cards while you're at it.
You mentioned you almost cut Thran Dynamo but 3 mana is a lot. Have you considered Gilded Lotus in it's slot? Or better yet, I don't much care for Worn Powerstone(it's slow) but maybe run Lotus in place of Powerstone?
Having Lotus and Dynamo on the battlefield together is sick.
word of seizing would like to have a word with you too! i know it gets anything but its still instant creature steal.
Can't get that with Sunforger, which is pretty major.
I've been considering a Sunforger toolbox. These are the ones I've looked at that you don't have and haven't been suggested. No idea how any of them actually play, though: Debt of Loyalty is an unexpected effect in these colors. Fatal Frenzy is great synergy with Brion. Firestorm lets you search up a sweeper. Works better if you have Wheel of Fortune effects or another way to draw a lot of cards, though. Ghostway gives you sweeper protection. I don't know if you have enough creatures that need protecting, though. Leave no Trace can wipe just an opponent's enchantments. More situational than Tempest of Light. Retaliate is a good rattlesnake card. Temporary Insanity is another instant speed threaten, but much, much more conditional. Vengeful Dreams is in the same camp as Firestorm. Wing Shards too.
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You mentioned you almost cut Thran Dynamo but 3 mana is a lot. Have you considered Gilded Lotus in it's slot? Or better yet, I don't much care for Worn Powerstone(it's slow) but maybe run Lotus in place of Powerstone?
Having Lotus and Dynamo on the battlefield together is sick.
Certainly worth trying out. It is annoying when the Powerstone comes in tapped.
I've been considering a Sunforger toolbox. These are the ones I've looked at that you don't have and haven't been suggested. No idea how any of them actually play, though: Debt of Loyalty is an unexpected effect in these colors. Fatal Frenzy is great synergy with Brion. Firestorm lets you search up a sweeper. Works better if you have Wheel of Fortune effects or another way to draw a lot of cards, though. Ghostway gives you sweeper protection. I don't know if you have enough creatures that need protecting, though. Leave no Trace can wipe just an opponent's enchantments. More situational than Tempest of Light. Retaliate is a good rattlesnake card. Temporary Insanity is another instant speed threaten, but much, much more conditional. Vengeful Dreams is in the same camp as Firestorm. Wing Shards too.
Most of these seem really situational. Unfortunately, I only have about 10-12 spots available for this package, and I need to make them as generically useful as possible.
Well of Lost Dreams always worked very well fo me when I played ye ol' Stoutarm. Because it was solid draw, I always thought that Firemane Angel was the best creature in the deck. Gotta love having a reverse Phyrexian Arena in R/W!
Well of Lost Dreams always worked very well fo me when I played ye ol' Stoutarm. Because it was solid draw, I always thought that Firemane Angel was the best creature in the deck. Gotta love having a reverse Phyrexian Arena in R/W!
Yeah, the Well seems quite good for me. I'll try to squeeze it in there. Any thoughts on what should get cut? I'm thinking that a couple of mana artifacts need to go...
Serra Ascendant is awesome, especially when you get it in your opening hand.
I have a Felidar Sovereign in my build but I always feel like a jerk playing it.
Somehow I don't think that both the Sovereign and my life total will "survive" until my next upkeep. As for the Ascendant, the chance of it being really crappy makes me want to avoid it.
I've been putting a fair amount of time into developing my Brion Stoutarm deck recently. While I won't claim to have any new or amazing ideas, I will say that this is a really fun and splashy deck that can randomly kill someone out of nowhere. If you've read my Teneb primer (in my sig), you'll note that I'm very big on synergies and card interactions, and not so much on dumb combos or unfair things like Time Stretch and Emrakul.
1 Adarkar Valkyrie
1 Archon of Justice
1 Battlegrace Angel
1 Bloodshot Cyclops
1 Conquering Manticore
1 Duregar Hedge-Mage
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Hoard-Smelter Dragon
1 Homura, Human Ascendant
1 Karmic Guide
1 Kemba, Kha Regent
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Leonin Shikari
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Stalking Vengeance
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Stonehewer Giant
1 Sun Titan
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Windbrisk Raptor
Artifacts (15):
1 Boros Signet
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Grim Monolith
1 Mana Vault
1 Mind's Eye
1 Mind Stone
1 Phyrexian Processor
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Scroll Rack
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Voltaic Key
1 Worn Powerstone
Equipment (8):
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Skullclamp
1 Sunforger
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Vengeance
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Enchantments (6):
1 Aura of Silence
1 Cradle of Vitality
1 Land Tax
1 Mobilization
1 Sacred Mesa
1 Vicious Shadows
Instants (9):
1 Blind with Anger
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Orim's Thunder
1 Path to Exile
1 Reiterate
1 Return to Dust
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Tempest of Light
1 Wild Ricochet
1 Austere Command
1 Rout
Non-basic lands (14):
1 Ancient Ampitheater
1 Arid Mesa
1 Boros Garrison
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Naya Panorama
1 Plateau
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Scabland
1 Shivan Gorge
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
1 Vivid Crag
1 Vivid Meadow
Basic lands (26):
14 Mountain
12 Plains
- Equipment is another sub-theme. There are three equipment tutors, and I would probably add Quest for the Holy Relic if I wasn't so light on castable creatures. Leonin Shikari is also very useful, especially when combined with shroud equipment (instant-speed Lightning Greaves is incredible).
- There is also a pretty good Sunforger package with tutorable answers to most problems. I recently tutored up a Ricochet Trap for a Time Stretch, which was awesome. Unfortunately, I could not search for Wild Ricochet because it was already in hand and I only had two mana up. The Wild Ricochet-Time Stretch combo is my ultimate goal for this deck.
- The last sub-theme of this deck is life-gain. Since Brion naturally gains life whenever he flings a dude, it followed that I should add in Cradle of Vitality and a few other life-gain triggers in order to provide a continuous power boost to remaining creatures. This strategy has also worked very well. Recently, I grew and flung a Stoneforge Mystic with over 40 power and toughness.
- Archon of Justice: Removal + synergy with Brion. This guy likes to be flung, and he can get rid of anything I don't like (even Eldrazi Monsters).
- Battlegrace Angel: Life gain + big body. This card has been surprisingly good.
- Bloodshot Cyclops: Another Brion, that targets creatures but doesn't gain life (without help).
- Conquering Manticore: A big body plus a free Threaten effect seems pretty good.
- Duregar Hedge-Mage: Not the best body, but it's got the right cost and it could get two for one.
- Eternal Dragon: Digs up Plains, including Mistveil Plains and Plateau. Also doesn't mind being flung.
- Hoard-Smelter Dragon: Big body, nukes artifacts to get even bigger.
- Homura, Human Ascendant: Synergy with Brion. He loves to be flung so that he can make future flings that much better.
- Karmic Guide: Recursion. A staple in any white EDH deck.
- Kemba, Kha Regent: Synergy with Brion, equipment. Since I'm naturally running equipment, Kemba seems like a natural inclusion. So far, I've only seen her once, and she had to chump-block immediately. Still need to test more with her.
- Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker: The best red card in the format, hands down. The copies he makes happen to be great for Brion to fling.
- Leonin Shikari: Part of the equipment package. Putting on Lightning Greaves, etc, at instant speed is very nice.
- Solemn Simulacrum: Solid card, happens to fling nicely.
- Stalking Vengeance: Synergy with Brion. When something gets flung, this guy delivers extra damage.
- Stoneforge Mystic: Equipment tutor. Can also cheat equipment into play. Generally solid card.
- Stonehewer Giant: Re-usable equipment tutor, big body. Even better when hasty.
- Sun Titan: Recursion. Lots of permanents, including all equipment, are 3cc or less. Happens to have a big body to boot.
- Weathered Wayfarer: Land tutor. Gets all the important lands, including Emeria and Kor Haven.
- Windbrisk Raptor: Big body, lots of life gain.
- Darksteel Ingot:Fixes, ramps, can't be blown up. 'Nuf said.
- Everflowing Chalice: Cheap artifact ramping.
- Grim Monolith: Cheap artifact ramping.
- Mana Vault: Cheap artifact ramping.
- Mind's Eye: There aren't many good draw spells in red/white, but this is one of them.
- Mind Stone: Cheap artifact ramping, plus it synergies with Sun Titan for more draw power.
- Phyrexian Processor: Synergy with Brion. Makes lots of big dudes to fling at other people.
- Rings of Brighthearth: Synergy with Brion, others. There are lots of good activated abilities to copy in this deck.
- Scroll Rack: Smooths out draws, digs deeper into library for better cards.
- Sol Ring: Cheap artifact ramping.
- Thousand-Year Elixir: "Ability-haste" is pretty nice for a lot of creatures, and untapping one of them is even better.
- Thran Dynamo: I was going to cut this card, but three extra mana is a lot.
- Voltaic Key: Besides the usual interaction with mana artifacts, it can also untap the Processor and the Vat for more fun.
- Worn Powerstone: Cheap artifact ramping.
- Lightning Greaves: A format staple. 'Nuf said.
- Skullclamp: Great for drawing cards off a fling, or just off a token.
- Sunforger: All of my trick spells fit into this neat little package. It can get remove, redirect, or copy any spell that might get cast. Works especially well with Mistveil Plains. Need to get a Tithe to complete this package.
- Sword of Fire and Ice: Pump, draw, protection, and removal all in one. Just a great card.
- Sword of Light and Shadow: Life gain and resurrection are nice. Not a good interaction with Cradle of Vitality, however.
- Sword of Vengeance: Another solid buff equipment. The trample buff makes Loxodon Warhammer obsolete, and the other buffs are all equally useful.
- Umezawa's Jitte: All three choices are useful here. Another format staple.
- Cradle of Vitality: Synergy with Brion, other life gain. Best at making another fling target after Brion flings the first one.
- Land Tax: White's best source of land fixing.
- Mobilization: A source of bodies for Brion to fling. Not sure if this is better than having creature spells. Need to test this further.
- Sacred Mesa: Same as Mobilization. Finally got one of these, need to test it out.
- Vicious Shadows: Synergy with Brion. Hasn't seen much play yet, but it's good when it comes out.
- Blind with Anger: Only instant that can steal a creature.
- Enlightened Tutor: Probably the best card in the deck. Instant speed tutor, digs for any combo piece I need.
- Orim's Thunder: Tutorable removal. Kicker can be paid off Sunforger, so it usually gets two things.
- Path to Exile: Cheap, efficient, tutorable removal.
- Reiterate: Tutorable trick. Buyback can be paid off Sunforger.
- Return to Dust: Tutorable removal. Strictly better than regular Disenchants.
- Swords to Plowshares: Cheap, efficient, tutorable removal.
- Tempest of Light: Tutorable removal. Not sure if I'd play an artifact sweeper like this one. Particularly good against Helix Pinnacle.
- Wild Ricochet: Tutorable trick. The best answer to Time Stretch and Bribery.
- Rout: Instant-speed sweeper.
- Archon of Redemption: Not enough flyers to make it worthwhile.
- Deathrender: Right now, I'm too creature-light to make this work.
- Kaldra pieces: It's very easy to get one of them into play, but very hard to get all three into play. Plus, their equip costs are enormous.
- Loxodon Warhammer: Between Basilisk Collar and Sword of Vengeance, the Hammer just became obsolete.
- Magmaw: He doesn't do much damage, unless I have a Basilisk Collar on him, and he's a huge Mindslaver risk.
- Congregate: A situational card that might be nice to pull out of a Sunforger against token decks.
- Emerge Unscathed: This might be nice to add to the Sunforger package.
- Giant Harbinger: Tutors for my general, Sun Titan, and Stonehewer Giant - two key cards plus my general.
- Godo, Bandit Warlord: Another equipment tutor would be nice, but he's quite expensive, and a little harder to get online.
- Hateflayer: Big body + removal, might get another chance.
- Hoarding Dragon: It would be another equipment tutor, but anything that RFG's a permanent is very risky. Probably needs a few more sacrifice outlets in order to ensure that I don't get blown out.
- Mimic Vat: Synergy with Brion, protection from removal. Makes lots of Brion fodder, saves things from removal (sort of), and can grab other people's stuff to fling.
- Nim Deathmantle: Seems like it could be very useful with fling effects.
- Steel Hellkite: Big body, pumpable, has its own removal.
- Sylvok Lifestaff: Cheap, life-gain, triggers when the creature gets flung. Definitely worth a try.
- Taurean Mauler: Another card I need to acquire.
- Tithe: Fetches Mistveil Plains and fits in the Sunforger package. In as soon as I acquire it.
- Well of Lost Dreams: Extra draw power seems good, albeit a bit situational.
- Adarkar Valkyrie: Great card, but a huge removal magnet, and there are quite a few conditions that need to happen before I can use it.
- Kemba, Kha Regent: Like the Valkyrie, a great card, but a huge removal magnet and a lot of things need to happen for it to be good. Might be better as a general, although I despise mono-white.
- Cataclysm: It's been very situational for me. Sometimes it wins me games (like if I keep an equipped creature on the board) and sometimes it's just not good enough (like when someone plays a Primeval Titan).
- Finished the entire list, finally.
11/01/10:
- Cut Archon of Redemption, Crib Swap, Ricochet Trap, Cataclysm, Cauldron of Souls, Whispersilk Cloak.
- Added Conquering Manticore, Mobilization, Sacred Mesa, Duregar Hedge-Mage, Solemn Simulacrum, Eternal Dragon (needed more bodies).
12/14/10:
- Cut Hamletback Goliath, added Hoard-Smelter Dragon.
I'm not sure if Serra Avatar is a "dumb combo", but it goes along the same lines as Phyrexian Processor.
I see you cut Akroma, but you didn't mention which one. Red Akroma is much better than the White one, I think. Plus firebreathers + Brion is great.
Serra Ascendant fits the theme. She's not as broken as she looks, but she makes the cut, I think.
Also, Well of Lost Dreams is a bit of a hidden gem which works wonders for Brion.
EDH
:symw::symb::symg: Teneb (video)
:symw::symr: Brion (video)
:symb::symr: Wort (video)
:symr::symg: Stonebrow (video)
B Shirei (video)
WU Rasputin (video) (retired)
R Urabrask (video)
WUR Zedruu (video) (retired)
W Isamaru
UB Grimgrin
U Mistform Ultimus (video)
UBR Gwendlyn (video)
URG Animar (video)
RG Thromok
WB Selenia
Standard
WU Geist of Saint Traft standard EDH (video) (retired)
WUB Battle of Wits!
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Serra Avatar is a little out of the budget range right now. At some point down the road, I might invest in one.
I believe I mentioned cutting both red and white Akromas.
The Well is a decent choice and will probably replace Memory Jar.
Good call, and I think I have a copy that I'm not using. In for Memory Jar until I find a Well.
DOH! That should be Aura of Silence. Fixed, thank you.
I'll also post results from EDH night on Thursday later this week...it's Brion's turn in the rotation after Teneb got me two wins last week.
Deck List:
Dredge
BUW Sharrum.Edh
GGGGG Omnath.Edh
UUUUU Alexi.Edh
First off, please try to include card tags or at least a little punctuation. It would make your posts easier to digest.
As for your suggestions, I'll try to defend my choices on why I didn't include them:
- I can't stand Emrakul. It's just no fun for anyone because it prevents people from playing the game. Half the fun in this format is being able to interact with opponents, and Emrakul prevents that. So, he won't be coming into any of my lists in the near future. Plus, I think our store has a house rule that bans him.
- Yosei, the Morning Star: I put it in the category of overcosted fatties. When someone sets out to build a Brion deck, they naturally assume that bigger creatures make better flings, so they feel like they need to load up on the fatties (like Yosei). However, this makes the deck very slow and cumbersome because you spend all your resources on casting one big dude, and if you can't fling it immediately, there's a good chance that someone will get rid of it before you can untap again. Conversely, if you play some smaller guys, you can wait until you are ready to fling the guy before making him huge, and you don't have to make such a huge initial investment that could be wiped out before you can fling. It's basically a way to reduce the risk of getting blown out.
- Yomiji, Who Bars the Way: Aside from the whole over-costed creature argument, this guy doesn't make the cut because there aren't that many legends in my list. If this were a Captain Sisay deck, he'd be in there.
- Deathrender: I used to run this card, but I'm a little too light on actual creature spells to make it good enough. I'd much rather have Nim Deathmantle instead.
- Enduring Renewal: Might be worth a try, but it doesn't strike me as being insane enough to make it over some other stuff. I could be wrong.
In general, I don't really care for that combo because it would be very difficult to assemble. There's almost no tutoring or draw power in red/white, and three or more card combos almost never work even if I had more tutoring.
One last thing: if you're going to suggest more cards to put in, please try to suggest some things that should get cut to make room for them.
Thanks for the input, though. I appreciate the time you took to make it.
-if you want to use sunforger (or equipment in general), steelshaper's gift should be an auto-include.
-#1 most important sunforger card for a multiplayer game: tithe. why? it fetches mistveil plains, which lets you keep recycling your spells over and over. otherwise you only get one shot at each one.
if you want to, you can throw in something like dawn charm for constant damage prevention with mistveil too. and personally i'm always surprised at how awesome magnetic theft ends up being, but maybe that's just me. also, auriok windwalker is tech. and oblation = i accidentally your general.
EDIT: and seriously, your store banned emrakul? erm, why? he's not even that good. actually sort of terrible unless it's only 3 player EDH.
WUB Merieke Ri Berit BUW
GWU Phelddagrif 1 2 3 4 UWG
BR Kaervek the Merciless RB
B Chainer, Dementia Master B
WUB Sen Triplets BUW
BG Sisters of Stone Death GB
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon GRBUW
GWU Angus Mackenzie UWG
R Kumano, Master Yamabushi R
WB Teysa BW
U Higure U
B Geth B
WUBRG Child of Alara 1 2GRBUW
R Zirilan R
U Arcum U
UR Nin RU
BRG Sek'Kuar GRB
U Teferi U
G Melira G
GU Edric UG
BG Glissa GB
Casual
GUB Knacksaw Clique BUG
RWU Sunforger UWR
Good stuff, sir. I like your thinking.
- Steelshaper's Gift: Seems like a worse version of Enlightened Tutor. While I certainly have a small package for the Sunforger, I'm not looking to build exclusively around it. It's merely one of the key pieces in the deck.
- Tithe: Definitely on my list of things to get for this deck. Unfortunately, it's an oldie, so I'll probably have to eBay it. I'm guessing it will be worth it.
- Dawn Charm: Sounds quite good. I'll certainly pick one up to try it out.
- Magnetic Theft: This one seems like a rather small effect. I think I'd rather have Shikari or Windwalker.
- Auriok Windwalker: I was not aware of him, but I like his ability. If only he were a three-drop...
- Oblation: I can think of a few generals I'd like to shuffle (Omnath), and it's probably better than Condemn. Definitely worth trying.
I'll have to confirm the Emrakul ban later this week.
EDIT: Any thoughts on what to cut from my current list for these guys?
steelshaper's gift is way, way better than enlightened tutor for equipment because it puts it into your HAND, not on top of your deck. it's like if enlightened tutor had cantrip. it's an easy first-turn drop, and since you've got a lot of equipment you can get the one that fits the situation best. enlightened tutor is nice because you can sunforger it (and obviously it's more flexible), but you really want to run both with the number of equipments you're using.
oblation is sick because you can cast it WHENEVER, not just when they attack. someone threatens to do something nasty, so you counter-threaten to bury their general in a deep, dark hole. and all you need on the field is your sunforger. and you can also use it to save something you like from removal, and draw some cards while you're at it.
sunforger is pretty much the sweetest card ever.
WUB Merieke Ri Berit BUW
GWU Phelddagrif 1 2 3 4 UWG
BR Kaervek the Merciless RB
B Chainer, Dementia Master B
WUB Sen Triplets BUW
BG Sisters of Stone Death GB
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon GRBUW
GWU Angus Mackenzie UWG
R Kumano, Master Yamabushi R
WB Teysa BW
U Higure U
B Geth B
WUBRG Child of Alara 1 2GRBUW
R Zirilan R
U Arcum U
UR Nin RU
BRG Sek'Kuar GRB
U Teferi U
G Melira G
GU Edric UG
BG Glissa GB
Casual
GUB Knacksaw Clique BUG
RWU Sunforger UWR
Having Lotus and Dynamo on the battlefield together is sick.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
word of seizing would like to have a word with you too! i know it gets anything but its still instant creature steal.
Can't get that with Sunforger, which is pretty major.
I've been considering a Sunforger toolbox. These are the ones I've looked at that you don't have and haven't been suggested. No idea how any of them actually play, though:
Debt of Loyalty is an unexpected effect in these colors.
Fatal Frenzy is great synergy with Brion.
Firestorm lets you search up a sweeper. Works better if you have Wheel of Fortune effects or another way to draw a lot of cards, though.
Ghostway gives you sweeper protection. I don't know if you have enough creatures that need protecting, though.
Leave no Trace can wipe just an opponent's enchantments. More situational than Tempest of Light.
Retaliate is a good rattlesnake card.
Temporary Insanity is another instant speed threaten, but much, much more conditional.
Vengeful Dreams is in the same camp as Firestorm.
Wing Shards too.
That's a fair statement. It also has its own fling ability, which probably makes it a little better than Blind with Anger.
Certainly worth trying out. It is annoying when the Powerstone comes in tapped.
Unfortunately, the cost is not very friendly with Sunforger...
Most of these seem really situational. Unfortunately, I only have about 10-12 spots available for this package, and I need to make them as generically useful as possible.
I have a Felidar Sovereign in my build but I always feel like a jerk playing it.
@MarkBGH on Twitter | Bloody Good Horror
Draft my Cube!
Yeah, the Well seems quite good for me. I'll try to squeeze it in there. Any thoughts on what should get cut? I'm thinking that a couple of mana artifacts need to go...
Somehow I don't think that both the Sovereign and my life total will "survive" until my next upkeep. As for the Ascendant, the chance of it being really crappy makes me want to avoid it.
Someone's been drinking the Hater-ade.
Price of Progress, Ankh, etc...none of those cards destroy any lands at all. Are you saying the (symmetrical) damage that they deal is mean?
Umm...yeah. Swing and a miss on my part.
I think i found your three-drop
UB Grimgrin, Corpse-BornUB
WRG Marath, Will of the Wild GRW
RGOmnath, Locus of RageGR
WBTeysa, Orzhov ScionBW
URThe Locust GodRU
W(W/R)RAkiri, Line-SlingerW(W/R)R
Yeah, I was rather excited when that guy got spoiled. He'll find a spot in there, I'm sure.