MTG Salvation

This thread will be for discussion of Geist of Saint Traft decks!

Firstly - my current list:



Changes:

Reserved.

Threads of Disloyalty - My main issue with this (really, the only one) is that it only grabs cmc 2 or less creatures. The vast majority of creatures I care to kill/steal cost exactly or just above 3. Stuff like Zur, Edric, Doran, Kotr, a titan. If i wanted to run more steal effects, i'd probably run Control Magic.

Skullclamp - This was in the initial build, and yeah - you can get some really nice draw power off of elspeth and co... except that's a really poor use of them in most situations. So far, since cutting it, I haven't yet had a situation where I'd rather run clamp over anything else. I don't feel it's worth weakening already small creatures to draw.

Ninja of the Deep Hours - Not included for the simple reason that I don't want to bounce my stuff often. Yes, I could always bounce an angel token, but is it worth it? The majority of the creatures either don't want to be bounced (unless it's in response to a trigger like Relic-Ward) or are too important to bounce. See skullclamp.

Cataclysm - I really did try to run this and other mass ld/i win buttons. I found them wanting. Almost all of the time, the card is a dead draw, or just win more. Often it's just asking to lose to well timed disruption. I don't like it much.

Jeweled Amulet - When I was originally focusing on getting geist into play ASAP and starting to beat face, I added this along-side the moxen. However, I've slowly gone to a deck that doesn't need a turn 2 geist, and wants to maximize every draw possible. Top-decking a jeweled amulet or moxen late game kind of kills my soul. Geist doesn't necessarily care to be dropped ASAP, and in fact there are games where I don't even play him nor want to play him until turn 7-8. Decks like sygg do, and jeweled amulet is perfect there.

Matchups - I havent experienced any notably bad matchups except possibly Uril, for the same reason that makes geist really awesome.... hexproof. While I haven't lost any sets to an uril deck, it still gives me issues.

Zur is a fairly equal matchup, that's improved by ensuring you have excellent hand quality (something i've been trying to add to geist)

For the most part, matchups are either 50/50, I haven't tested them yet, or I completely blow them out.

I have noticed the same thing with my Geist list (which is identical to yours minus ~5 bad cards +5 good cards :p) in that the deck is very resilient and even it's worst matchups feel very winnable.

The worst matchup I have found so far is fast Combo Animar (the slower the Animar deck the better for us) and hinges on Geist equipping and connecting with a Jitte and riding it to victory.

Why aren't you running Pithing Needle or Phyrexian Revoker?

Quote from Virtus

Why aren't you running Pithing Needle or Phyrexian Revoker?

Pithing Needle literally does nothing for me. Being largely tempo oriented, needle doesnt do anything to further that goal, and against a large portion of decks is a dead draw.

Revoker is similar, but does actually further the tempo plan. It's on a body. However, that's usually all it is. Not many decks actually run activated abilities that they see often. Of those that do, the "good" targets usually overlap with my own cards.

...
Applying that reasoning to Meddling Mage, you'd think I'd have cut this long ago. For me, it's been the most useful creature in the deck in several key matchups. Playing against a voltron based deck? Name the general either preemptively or after bouncing/killing. Opponent just tutored? Say no.

Worst case (and this is true of revoker as well), it carries Jitte like a baws, but isn't useless in most matchups like revoker is.

Testing:
- Cursecatcher (only good in permission matchups)
- Withdraw (Can be unreliable)

+ Sword of Body and Mind (Makes bodies, good protections)
+ Piracy Charm (What doesn't it do?)

Treachery is ludicrous in this format.

Gilded Drake is great on its own and bonkers with Jace/Man-o-war.

Spell Snare is a very relevant card against a lot of decks.

Peek and Gitaxian Probe are wasted slots in this deck. You are playing blue, your card filtering/drawing is nigh infinite.

Quote from Beware

Treachery is ludicrous in this format.

Yup, I run it in my Geist list, as well as Control Magic.

Quote from Beware

Gilded Drake is great on its own and bonkers with Jace/Man-o-war.

Gilded Drake is one of the best cards in the format, however it is bad in this deck because of the 3/3 blocker it provides them. Also, it should be noted that Gilded Drake gets blown out by an opponents Jace/Man-o-War harder than any other Control Magic effect, and nearly all tier 1 decks are running alot of bounce these days.

Quote from Beware

Spell Snare is a very relevant card against a lot of decks.

I certainly would't fault anyone for running Spell Snare, but I am of the opinion that it and Mental Misstep are not as good as more expensive yet more versatile cards, like Condescend.

Quote from Beware

Peek and Gitaxian Probe are wasted slots in this deck. You are playing blue, your card filtering/drawing is nigh infinite.

Preface: this is more in defence of Gitaxian Probe, not Peek which I will admit is questionable.

I do not mean offence but their is a lot wrong with this statement. Gitaxian Probe is one of the best cards in the format, and should not be cut from any blue deck ever.

Gaka, have you tested the Sundial of the Infinite? I understand it may look too cute, but being able to keep the angel tokens around is pretty hot.

What Nargl said.

On treachery/control magic - the only reason I don't run them now is that i'm a bit wary on the curve. Frequently by the time a game is over I've only gotten a couple of lands in play, maybe 3-4. However, both of them probably need to find slots eventually.

Sundial - I think it's terrible here. Sure, you get a 4/4 flier, at the expense of a second main phase (where most of your sorceries should be cast anyways) and also at the expense of having a really crappy topdeck. Which just means "no" to me.

Currently I am running Ponder + Sleight of Hand over what you are running in addition to ~1-2 more lands IIRC to increase my odds of hitting my early land drops.

I am of the belief that the template of "land light" aggro control as taken from legacy gets lost in translation when being applied to the 1v1 EDH format. In general I think people don't run enough lands, and loose to many games to land shortage. Personally with this deck I want to maximize my chances of hitting 4 lands on turn 4, and hit 5 lands by turn 6 reliably so that I can either cast Geist twice, or Geist + countermagic.

I agree completely. I've also bumped my land count to 38.

I've also cut cursecatcher and spiketail hatchling completely. They are great for "Isamaru" Geist, going straight aggro with some control elements to allow for a protected turn 3 geist, but not in a more control based deck such as this, where they can be largely irrelevant as bodies and serve more function as being hidden counters in hand.

As the deck has evolved, it's no longer wholly interested in getting geist out as fast as possible in an effort to improve certain matchups. So, these have been cut. As stated, they are great versus control decks... decks which we already have a fantastic matchup against.

I've added control magic too. It's sower of temptation without a stick, and doesnt cost an insane amount of mana. Treachery will probably find its way along eventually. For now, i'll stick with what i'm comfortable with.

If the changes prove to suck in certain matchups (edric in particular), i'll probably think of revising it back.

Control Magic has turned out to be less than stellar for me, in the 20-odd games I've played with it.

It's been relevant very few times and almost every time I've drawn it I wished it was something else.

Cut for Ponder.

Riptide Laboratory?

Slightly off-beat idea: Have you considered Bonds of Faith? Solid removal against creature decks, an affordable P/T boost for your general against other decks.

Quote from Obsidian Dice

Slightly off-beat idea: Have you considered Bonds of Faith? Solid removal against creature decks, an affordable P/T boost for your general against other decks.

Geist of Saint Traft is a Spirit Cleric. He's not a human, so he doesn't get the bonus from Bonds of Faith.

What is with the Probe love? In what fashion is it one of the best cards in the format??? It lets you peek at your opponents hand (which is rarely if ever relevant if you are a competent player) and any situation that would be rectified by drawing that one more card would more than likely be just as good if you replaced the pointless cantrip with something that actually accomplished something. If you are so adamant about this card, I would like to know why.

Treachery may seem expensive, but it's the ONLY 5+ mana spell I would run in a 1v1 aggro control deck. The amount of times where it just wins on the spot and costs effectively 0 (and sometimes nets mana) are totally worth it over Control Magic. I cut Control Magic from my deck long ago, but Treachery has certainly remained.

The power of Spell Snare and Mental Misstep are almost entirely dependent on how developed your meta is. You never want to fly blind with those conditional counters in your hand.

Gitaxian Probe is the mono-blue equivalent to a Thoughtseize. It gives valuable information in the form of answering the following question: "Can I play my General and win this game right now without counter backup or with only one counter in hand?"

The Salvation/French meta is so developed that wasting even 3 mana (or 5 with backup when your opponent had two answers) can make you lose the game because your opponent may have something equally wonderful to do on turns 3-5. Am I making sense?

Blue counters are so incredibly prevalent in this format that you have to know when it's safe to come out swinging (or else your early risk may make you lose in 2-3 turns because you didn't have enough mana open for answers). Hell, blue shenanigans in general are so prevalent that I usually don't even cast my commander unless I have backup to prepare for theft and bounce. A deck that can win so surely within a few turns after resolving its general (Geist being one of them) has to do it right. Probe works.

That makes some sense, but it just seems to me that this is an issue that can be resolved by proper play and reading of your opponent. Maybe I just know the people in my meta too well since I've been playing with them for years, but I almost always know when I'm running something into a counterspell. Geist is definitely more dependent on its commander than the decks I usually play, so maybe it makes more sense in here.

Quote from Beware

That makes some sense, but it just seems to me that this is an issue that can be resolved by proper play and reading of your opponent. Maybe I just know the people in my meta too well since I've been playing with them for years, but I almost always know when I'm running something into a counterspell. Geist is definitely more dependent on its commander than the decks I usually play, so maybe it makes more sense in here.

It's much easier if you're playing with someone IRL too. You can throw out a trolling question and read their response, but a lot of these guys are playing on Cockatrice so it's harder to tell if the opponent has a counter ready. Sure, open mana and what types of plays they are making can help, but I think playing people IRL (especially those you know well) makes it a lot easier to read your opponent.

Mirran Crusader
Hero Of bladehold.

I believe that these 2 cards are in essence a waste of time. Not only do they take your generals job away. They also turn on your opponents removal (while if you didn't have these eventually your general's angels would eat their GFT and Friends). This logic makes me question Cards such as sower of temptation and fiend hunter. I know they're great cards but in a deck with little targets for removal Do you really need to run them other they're non-creature alternatives. This does make the deck more reliant on your general, but your general is the only thing your guranted each game. If you do want a late game then Simply wait untill you draw JTMS. He'll end the game for you.

Im also against Aven Mindsencor you might as well just play another counter 99% of the time. Your playing blue only decks that don't have blue resort to playing this card.

Isn't this the deck that you'd want to play winter orb against, not be playing? Like others have said you want to hit your first 5 land drops, otherwise your rather upset. I don't think the reward of Winter orb is ever worth it in Geist. Usually they don't have a answer to Geist which means they're forced to race it which might lead to winter orb being good. However while your racing with Geist you want to have counter back up just in case they draw their one answer.

I think ever deck playing Stoneforge Mystic should be playing Batterskull, That card is severly underplayed. Against Edric not only do they need to disable the STM they will eventually need to deal with the Batterskull. Also a Batterskull equiped to Geist makes people mad. Hell I would probually Play SoWnP beause the only way Geist is ever going to die is through combat.

I would definately be playing Tithe, I would play it over Land tax but I know how much people love the card. I think Land tax will never do what you want it to do (LIke browbeat) and it's never good to give your opponent a choice because whatever it is it's not going to be good. Also you usually want a immediate effect.

I think this is one of the few decks that Might be able to abuse spreading seas. I'm not confidant but it may be huge.

Where's Spell Snare?

These are just some of my thoughts, tell me if you disagree/agree with me.

EDIT: I would play Probe, Dismember, Phyrexian Metamorph in Godo If i could....

Bonds of Faith - Someone has been reading the standard forums without actually clicking on links : ) As surging said, that's why it's terrible here, otherwise I would love the utility, and I would love to sharpie alter it to read Pacifism.

Crusader and Hero - To date, i've never had an issue with my opponents drawing so much removal that nothing but Geist lives for very long. In a perfect world, where the opponent does draw a ton of removal - neither of these are that easy to kill. Crusader has decent protections, automatically stopping black removal, and hero has a nice ass - making red removal a lot worse. For blue removal, I can just replay them later. For white removal, I've got counterspells. Hopefully I have one in hand. I've just not found either of these to be wasted slots.

Besides, how scary is it to swing in with a sword-equipped crusader? Take 8 + twice these abilities... I havent yet had an issue with removal, and these are the two best creatures in the deck, so i'll keep them.

Aven Mindcensor - I agree with this provided i'm not playing against a black or green deck. Both of these colors are notorious for running a lot of tutors to add consistency and power, and aven mindcensor makes them one hell of a lot worse without having to constantly spend counters to do the same thing.

As a plus, it makes fetchlands a hell of a lot worse.

Winter Orb - There are very few occasions where i've been upset for someone to cast this against me. Provided I have 3+ lands on the field, I don't mind the slowed down game, as I have such a low curve I can still function. Combined with Sword of Feast and Famine, this is one of the most debilitating soft-locks I've found. With the recent love of 5c decks as well, I dont see myself cutting this anytime soon. It's too useful.

Batterskull - I really dont like this card unless SFM is in play. It's probably an irrational argument, but I detest it. In legacy, this was suddenly "the card" to run, and not once was it ever relevant against me.... I definitely don't play combo...

I also don't like drawing equipment a lot. I'd rather draw 1-2 total through the game, and if i need more, I want to be tutoring for it. Having an opener filled with equipment really sucks, and equipment aren't the best topdeck... except perhaps batterskull. If there was ever a good reason to run it, it would be that it's a great topdeck and does actually go well with the general if i need to. For this alone I won't dismiss it out of hand without testing, even if I hate the card to death.

Tithe/Tax - There have been times when tax has sucked, but there have also been many more times when tax has been the best card that game. I dont think i want to run tithe that badly here, as it is generally a 1:1, sometimes better. In addition, tithe doesn't feul looter or jace/brainstorm freely, and doesnt improve the draws as much as tax does. Worst case, tithe is a Caravan Vigil. Best case, tithe is a one mana Seek the Horizon. Worst case for tax, it slows down your opponent as they try to not let you activate it. Best case, it's Ancestral Recall every turn for free. C'mon.

Spreading Seas - I think i sea where you're going with this, but... eeeeh.

Spell Snare - we're getting there..

Thanks for the brutal assessment. However, I don't want a deck that is over-reliant on the general, like I feel Godo might be. Filling the deck with stuff that goes great with geist but not much else doesnt appeal to me. I want a deck that can function well without geist, but having geist just makes it about 90 times better. So far, I feel i've done this well.

Lol I guess I sounded pretty much elitist, but the reasons I don't like Mirran Crrusader and friends is because they limit your options. I know you know your deck best, But Since your general is so cheap depending on him isn't bad at all.

Your decklist is pretty tight, Just trying to point out the smaller things. I Can understand why you don't want to be clogged with Swords and maybe 3 is the right number.

The one thing I will completely disagree with is Aven Mindsencor, because at best it's a situational counter that can be nullified.

If I can only find 3 things I don't like about your decklist thats a good thing :). Also how do you do against Zur? Is that your worst Matchup. I know B/X decks your favored towards. How do you handle Sygg?

EDIT: Does Silent Departure deserve a slot in the deck its unique bounce that can keep a general at bay for 2 turns. Provides A early drop against edric. Something to consider

Elitist Pricks For The WIN Baby.

Zur Matchup is Even to Favorable in my judgment. Some of the cards that go a long way to improving it are Meddling Mage and Aven Mindcensor (go figure...)

The large amount of creature removal also holds zur at bay until I can hopefully resolve geist and ride it to victory.

Sygg is also likewise fairly similar, but a lot simpler than the Zur matchup is. Resolving a sword on geist is usually enough to win, and it's not necessary to constantly murder Sygg with removal.

I dont like silent departure much.