This deck only recognizes the OFFICIAL ban list found on mtgcommander.net
"I have brought raging fires to the heavens and illuminated the depths of the underworld with divine light so that I may loose judgment upon this land. Through me Heaven and Hell have been emptied, and their combined might shall purge this world." -Kaalia of the Vast
About the Deck: Kaalia of the Vast is a noteworthy card to any EDH player, but has been shunned due to her "weakness." What I've tried to do is create a deck that specializes in heavily controlling an opponent's hand and battlefield to remove any responses they may have to your general so that you can combo your way to victory.
This deck has no direct path to which it must follow. Instead, many paths to victory have been implemented that all compliment and combine with one another to create efficiency and power. Most often you will win by simply overwhelming your opponent with raw power very early on, other times you may play defensive with heavy control and then combo to victory. You can change the entire battlefield in a single turn easily with this deck, and rise from nothing but crumbling ash into an immediate threat with ease.
There is no single strategy or card that completely shuts down this deck, because it boasts so many methods of destruction and win conditions that it is very hard to stop.
If one label had to be chosen I would say this is an aggro deck because it almost always has you pressing your foot on the gas, but it is so much more than that. It can remove permanents just like a control deck, and hosts ridiculous plays just like a combo deck. It takes ages to get bored of playing when you have so many different options to choose from when piloting this powerhouse.
How it plays:
I will write a summary of recommended early, middle, and late gameplay consisting of general strategies and ideal cards to play. The most desirable one's will be listed, of course there are many card's with similar effects that can work in place of them, allowing for much more consistency. I'm not going to list every card that you should be playing at that time, just some of the generally more desirable selections.
Early Game:
Your opening hand will depict what type of game your deck has chosen to play this match. If you have a lot of control/removal spells, that means you will be playing defensive until the time for chaos presents itself. If you drew a few ramp spells, then you know that this match is going to be fast paced and edgy. Either way, your entire early game is geared towards setting up a safe environment for Kaalia to step foot upon. Ramp your mana with artifacts and drop as many of the low cost protection creatures as you can while picking out all of the counters or bounces in your opponent's hand that would stop you from casting Kaalia, thus setting up the field for your trump card. Use the cheap spot removal on serious threats if necessary. Unless you know that it's completely risk free, do not bother declaring any attacks whatsoever.
Discard/Hand Controll:
Castigate
Duress
Gerrard's Verdict
Hymn to Tourach
Inquisition of Kozilek
Thoughtsieze
Mesmeric Fiend
Tidehollow Sculler
Mid Game:
Mid game, once you're satisfied that your arsenal of protection is well stocked or your opponent has exhausted the majority of their threatening resources to your removal spells, it's time to start taking control. Tutor up a vicious creature (if you haven't drawn one already) and cast Kaalia of the Vast. All of the creatures in this deck have amazing abilities that can turn the tides of a match just by entering the battlefield, so choose one that best suits the circumstances you're under. With one swing, odds are you just completely changed the tempo of the game. You should have Kaalia of the Vast out, reasonably protected with Hexproof and Haste, and another fat beater to back her up. Now would be a good time to cast a card like Armageddon, to prevent your opponent from responding next turn and placing you in a very advantageous position.
Mid game all-stars:
Every creature in your deck just became a possible game changer.
Late game is not a common time for this deck, because Kaalia makes all of your would be late game cards playable in mid/early game. If you haven't gained control of the board and are soon to win, then you have probably been stomped on pretty hard. It's time to get cheap, and blow everything up. There are cards in this deck geared towards recovering from complete annihilation quickly, and this lets you gain much advantage over your opponents.
Having Weathered Wayfarer out can generate large advantage on it's own, but especially after having just cast an Armageddon or Cataclysm. Adding the Crucible of Worlds combo to this mix makes for excellent field control and heavily cripples your opponents, usually so much that they are unable to recover at all.
Combine Crucible of Worlds with cards like Strip Mine to soft lock an opponent and destroy their lands, or you can ensure a fresh land drop every turn by using lands like Marsh Flats.
Use Boseiju, Who Shelters All to cast your really important instants and sorceries like Cataclysm or Mind Twist. Your opponents will grimace at their counterspells that they've been sandbagging while you generate advantage.
Deck weaknesses (that I'm aware of):
Lack of graveyard hate. My sideboard actually has a lot of cards with this in it, I'll post that up too when I stop being lazy. Lack of non-awesomeness. This deck is fun to play and to play against. The combos in the deck aren't usually the type that make the game unfun for the other players, and most are excited to see what you can do next.
If you can point out any more, please do!
Card Choices:
Creatures: Akroma, Angel of Fury- A straight powerhouse that boasts excellent defenses and amazing art. Easy to pump up for that final little push of damage and can be morphed for faster play. Angel of Despair- Excellent removal and combos very well with the many spammable recursion strategies used in the deck. Baneslayer Angel- Easy to cast from hand, has great stats/abilities, and the lifelink can become your savior in a tight pinch. Some defenses. Devoted Caretaker- Amazing early game. Once your opponents realize how your deck is played, they will become more vigilant at destroying not only KotV, but your other permanents as well. For one mana, this card offers a strong line of defense for your permanents. Grand Abolisher- The single card in the deck that leaves a completely safe environment to cast your Kaalia without fear. Hellkite Charger- Use his ability to curb stomp your opponents, and gain overwhelming advantage as Kaalia's ability flood the field. Can be looped into infinite combat phases with ease, a definite win condition in this deck. Iona, Shield of Emeria- This card can single handedly shut down an opponent completely. Amazing art and flavor for the deck. Karmic Guide- One of the best creatures in this deck. She combos not only with Kaalia, but with so many other cards that seeing her cast usually ends in a game-changing play. Linvala, Keeper of Silence- Excellent board control for the deck and is easily cast from hand. Rakdos the Defiler- Possibly my favorite card in the deck. He can completely obliterate opponents in a single swing, and declaring second attacks with him is not as penalizing in this deck due to the mass land recursion available. Rune-Scarred Demon- Another ETB effect that becomes priceless when combo'd with. Sets up fantastic plays and boasts solid stats. Steel Hellkite is an alternative sweeper, and combos well with SoFaF. Stoneforge Mystic- One of the best early game drops not only in this deck, but in it's color in my opinion. Weathered Wayfarer- Generates good land advantage at any point in the game, compliments many combos very well to overwhelm your opponent. Used to fetch the more important lands you may need. Yosei, the Morning Star- Used to lock down an opponent, he can be combo'd into rendering someone unable to cast anything.
Instants: Enlightened Tutor- Fast and cheap retrieval for any artifact or enchantment. Mortify- Orzhov was done a solid when this was printed. Very cheap and versatile card. Path to Exile- Amazingly cheap removal for an immediate threat. Swords to Plowshares- Cheap removal spell Terminate- The best black two mana removal spell, amazing art. Unmake- Permanently eliminate whatever creature threat is in your way. Vampiric Tutor- One of the best tutor cards in the game.
Sorceries: Armageddon- Drop this if the tempo of the game is not in your favor, combo's well with the land recursion strategies. Cataclysm- Usually used just for good measure after Kaalia is cast. Generates stupendous advantage. Demonic Tutor- One of the best tutor cards in the game. Divine Reckoning- Usually used just for good measure after Kaalia is cast. Can generate a lot of advantage, and the FB forces opponents to play conservatively until it is removed. Grim Tutor- Because I already added all of the cheaper CMC tutors. Reanimate- Single best recursion spell in the game. Steelshaper's Gift- Great for fetching a WOMD. Vindicate- The best single target removal spell in the game.
Artifacts: Boros Signet- Mana fixing and ramp. Coalition Relic- Mana fixing and ramp. Coldsteel Heart- Mana fixing and ramp. Crucible of Worlds- Compliments the mass land destruction in the deck oh so well. Darksteel Ingot- Mana fixing and ramp, excellent defenses. Lightning Greaves- Great defense for creatures, and allows instant plays. Mimic Vat- Amazing combo piece, steal opponents creatures for defense or spam your own ETB effects. Orzhov Signet- Mana fixing and ramp. Sensei's Divining Top- Great deck control/draw engine. Sol Ring- The best single mana ramp in the game. Swiftfoot Boots- Upgraded version of greaves. Sword of Feast and Famine- One of the best equipments in the game. Generates card advantage and replenishes mana for stupid combos.
Enchantments: Aggravated Assault- A flat out game ender in most cases. Best mana dump in the deck for crushing opponents. Necropotence- One of the best draw engines in the game. Fear Mindslavers when this is in play. Phyrexian Arena- Draw engine. Sneak Attack- One of the best cards in the deck, allows you to cheat in heavy beaters or ETB effects.
Prince Tristan, for providing his experienced insight on this format and KotV decks, he was a lot of help and made me rethink the cards that I knew weren't as effective as I wanted them to be, despite my favoritism.
ISBPathfinder, for making several card suggestions, discussing various possible strategies and combos, and answering many questions I had.
Rayschoot, for introducing me to cards and combos I hadn't seen.
Galspanic, for recommending some now must have cards in my deck and clarifying rulings and queries I had.
Blackjack68, For writing an amazing guide for those new to EDH which I studied before choosing any commanders. It provided so much information about the format and saved many people from a long slew of questions that I had. Also for discussing different strategies with me, recommending cards, and using his deck list to discover more effective/versatile cards I could use in place of some others I was running.
I recommend Blackjack68's guide to all new players, and hope it is as useful to you as it was (and still is) to me. If you would like to see his punisher style KotV deck, click here
That1guy34, for recommending a couple of amazing cards that I immediately added and answering some questions I had.
Sanity's Eclipse, for having several discussions with me across various KotV threads and providing game tested information on various plays I had read about, saving me from having to perform them all myself. His Kaalia deck is a variation of the punisher style, and can be found here.
Gaka, for letting me know that I still have a lot to learn about KotV and the 1v1 meta in general. He was responsible for the most recent overhaul to this list and has offered a lot of constructive criticism.
Thank you all so much for your insight, recommendations, and discussions. Being new to the format, I learned a lot not just about this deck but how EDH plays in a general context, and became a better player from it all.
If you have any questions, or want to know why I do or don't run some cards, feel free! I love discussing new ideas and strategies pertaining to KotV =)
"Common sense is not as common as one would believe."
"These kids today with their collector numbers and their newfangled tap symbol. Twenty Black Lotuses and twenty Plague Rats. Now that's real Magic."-Old Fogey
IF THIS IS GOING TO BE YOUR FIRST EDH/COMMANDER DECK:
Then I highly recommend you read this Beginner's Guide created by Blackjack68. It not only introduces you to the format and explains how it is played, but provides much insight and help for any beginner. I used it myself when I first joined, and still find it to be a valuable resource.
What Not To Do When Building A KotV Deck:
1. Many new Kaalia players (myself included at one point) see KotV and immediately construct a deck list of 30+ of the fattest most expensive demons/angels/dragons they can find. This is a horrible mistake. To those not experienced with the Commander format it might be a good idea, but realistically decks like that are VERY easy to shut down and control. Kaalia is one of the most hated generals at any table right off the bat. People will be watching your plays carefully and be ready to respond as soon as you try to cast her. 2. When constructing your deck list, incorporating methods to keep Kaalia on the battlefield is the most important strategy to build. Whether it be through various types of heavy control, super ramping, exhausting all of your opponents resources, or simply stacking defensive cards, no Kaalia deck can function as efficiently if she never touches the field. Instead of trying to ensure a fatty drop on every attack, make it that whenever a fatty is dropped that it has a huge impact. 3. Make sure that almost every card in your deck has high value even if Kaalia is not on the field and/or is unplayable at the moment. Every Commander deck needs to be able to function without its general, KotV is no exception. Having one or two cards that are generally only going to see play if Kaalia is out is not a big deal, but the vast majority of your deck list needs to be castable and effective if Kaalia is not in play.
Popular Strategies Seen In KotV Decks:
Land Destruction- one of the more common strategies in KotV decks, the primary goal is to generate advantage by constantly destroying your opponents mana sources so that you can cast Kaalia unchecked and push your way to victory.
If you have a KotV deck that carries a heavy land destruction package and would like it to be featured here as an example, please PM me!
Discarding Advantage- Many Kaalia players have a heavy subtheme of discarding incorporated into their decks to whittle down their opponent's hands so that they are unable to respond to Kaalia at all and have to sit and watch her wreck life totals.
If you have a KotV deck that carries a heavy discard package and would like it to be featured here as an example, please PM me!
Punishing- A more conservative approach on KotV, these decks specialize at bleeding and taxing your opponents over time while strongly defending yourself and then finishing them off in one heavy combo. Blackjack68, a fellow KotV player specializes in this strategy, and has graciously provided this explanation:
"The main strategy is to get/keep/bring back into play cards that punish everything players do and damage everyone, while giving yourself a bit of breathing room with some lifegain and holding off the angry mob with defensive measures. Direct damage and life drain can dramatically hasten everyone's demise. Plenty of recursion and a robust removal suite ensure survivability in a game that goes too long, and a couple of combos can steal a win out of nowhere. Beatdown with a hasty Kaalia and whomever she brings along is an alternate but still somewhat effective plan, especially later in the game when everyone is low on life, and you can likely give Kaalia haste."-Blackjack68
For a more in-depth view on this strategy, you can go to the thread based on it created by Blackjack68 by clicking here
Stacking Battle Phases- Another sub-theme that is really popular with KotV is adding several cards that provide additional battle phases. It's a good strategy in any powerhouse deck, but in KotV it allows you to drop multiple creatures for free per turn and do a very heavy (if not fatal) amount of damage to your opponent.
If you have a KotV deck that carries a heavy extra battle phase package and would like it to be featured here as an example, please PM me!
Alternative Subthemes/Combos Available In KotV:
Here are a few small subthemes you can add to a KotV deck to provide some depth to your strategies.
Sunforger- This equipment can easily become a shining star in a KotV deck. If you run a heavy amount of R/W Instants then this card is almost a must have. I personally recommend adding in Stoneforge Mystic, Goblin Welder, and Stonehewer Giant if you want to run Sunforger more effectively.
[CARD]
Worldgorger Dragon[/CARD] infinite loop combo- By combining Worldgorger Dragon with a spammable recursion card or Animate Dead, you can create an infinite loop for ETB effects as a secondary win condition. Destroy every permanent you don't control with Angel of Despair, tutor infinitely with Rune-Scarred Demon, or simply instantly kill everyone with Piranha Marsh.
Fake Outs- Many KotV players use cards like Maze of Ith or Reconnaissance to trigger Kaalia's effect and then remove her from harm's way. These are heavily recommended if your deck runs only a small amount of combat protection for your creatures. You may want to consider adding in a Weathered Wayfarer, Expedition Map, Enlightened Tutor, or Academy Rector to tutor out your fake out cards.
THE KOTV LIBRARY, A LIST OF NOTEWORTHY CARDS TO CREATE THE SKELETON OF YOUR KOTV DECK-
I'm going to make lists consisting of noteworthy cards that you can expect to see/play in a KotV deck. These lists were made only to grasp the basic concept of a Kaalia deck. It is highly recommended that you have a general idea of what type of deck you want to run before selecting any of these cards. Every Kaalia deck should be more complex than simply cheating fat cards onto the battlefield, so decide upon your strategy and subthemes and then choose cards that can compliment them.
"Common sense is not as common as one would believe."
"These kids today with their collector numbers and their newfangled tap symbol. Twenty Black Lotuses and twenty Plague Rats. Now that's real Magic."-Old Fogey
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
What ban list are you using? Your lack of sweepers seems very odd, comsidering both edric and sygg are the dominate decks in the 1v1 format.
Edited soon after creation, this deck only recognizes the official ban list on mtgcommander.net
Cataclysm, Divine Reckoning, No Mercy. With a heavy tutor package installed fetching these cards when needed has not been a problem. Rakdos the Defiler can be somewhat of a sweeper as well, the deck also has a sturdy amount of spot removal for any pesky creatures/abilities. Fly over the rest and laugh at people who try to out aggro a KotV deck.
I haven't played against a Sygg, but Edric is a somewhat popular general at my local shop and he has yet to pose as a problem. Annoying, sure, but every time it's been played against the opponent has either been shut down due to just continual spot removal or continuously blocking the squishy low drops with vigilant creatures.
The first two I have already, I'll start working on making room for them right now. Aether Flash would just be a self lock on casting my own general.
I literally just converted from multiplayer to 1v1, so the deck is going to recieve a few tweaks very soon.
Any opinions on Identity Crisis in this deck? Would I be better off just running Mind Shatter/Mind Twist?
EDIT: Simply added Pyroclasm and Volcanic Fallout to the SB along with Consume the Meek. If I see a general that I know is weak against these cards, problem solved. Didn't want to add them to skeleton list due to them being possibly useless against several other generals and more likely to hinder myself considering Kaalia is a shrubby 2/2.
"Common sense is not as common as one would believe."
"These kids today with their collector numbers and their newfangled tap symbol. Twenty Black Lotuses and twenty Plague Rats. Now that's real Magic."-Old Fogey
Speed-wise:
Identity Crisis is a complete waste of time. By the time you've assembled the mana to cast it, the game has probably ended already.
Mimic Vat is likewise too slow. Your mana would be better put somewhere else.
Stonehewer Giant doesnt seem good at 5 mana in 1v1. Far too slow.
Do you have enough targets for Imperial Recruiter to be worth a slot?
Is all that indestructible equipment necessary? It seems to be a bit much, and would clog your hand. Equipping secondaries is pointless.
Chrome Mox, Lotus Petal, Mox Diamond, and the Mirage diamonds would serve you well.
Hellkite Charger seems bad, but I could see it doing great things (particularly with your sword)
Aggravated Assault seems worse than the charger. You can't cheat it out, and with the low numbers of creatures, can be really bad and useless.
Crucible of Worlds doesnt do anything.
If you insist on using Land Tax, Scroll Rack seems good.
You'll be wanting a lot more draw than you currently have, and maindeck cheap sweepers are the nuts, regardless of the meta. You say you have lots of edric around - that's reason enough to run Pyroclasm and Volcanic Fallout. So Kaalia died, you just wiped out Edric's draw engine and the source of its power.
Focus-wise:
I feel there is too much emphasis on Kaalia. You have very few ways of effectively getting your beef out should kaalia die, and a large portion of the sword package is terrible without something to equip it to, like kaalia. Narrow it down to the few equips you really think are good.
More draw power.
In 1v1, One of black's greatest strengths is the ability to discard. I feel there should be some discard in here, and since you are using the MTGCommander banlist.. Mind Twist is broken good.
No Mercy just seems horrendous, honestly. Edric can just bounce it and gain enough tempo that it really wont matter if you cast it again (if you would even want to )
Built-in sweepers to your fatty package seems like a good idea. I can't believe you're not running Steel Hellkite.
end rant.
Private Mod Note
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Speed-wise:
Identity Crisis is a complete waste of time. By the time you've assembled the mana to cast it, the game has probably ended already.
Mimic Vat is likewise too slow. Your mana would be better put somewhere else.
Stonehewer Giant doesnt seem good at 5 mana in 1v1. Far too slow.
Do you have enough targets for Imperial Recruiter to be worth a slot?
Is all that indestructible equipment necessary? It seems to be a bit much, and would clog your hand. Equipping secondaries is pointless.
Chrome Mox, Lotus Petal, Mox Diamond, and the Mirage diamonds would serve you well.
Hellkite Charger seems bad, but I could see it doing great things (particularly with your sword)
Aggravated Assault seems worse than the charger. You can't cheat it out, and with the low numbers of creatures, can be really bad and useless.
Crucible of Worlds doesnt do anything.
If you insist on using Land Tax, Scroll Rack seems good.
You'll be wanting a lot more draw than you currently have, and maindeck cheap sweepers are the nuts, regardless of the meta. You say you have lots of edric around - that's reason enough to run Pyroclasm and Volcanic Fallout. So Kaalia died, you just wiped out Edric's draw engine and the source of its power.
Focus-wise:
I feel there is too much emphasis on Kaalia. You have very few ways of effectively getting your beef out should kaalia die, and a large portion of the sword package is terrible without something to equip it to, like kaalia. Narrow it down to the few equips you really think are good.
More draw power.
In 1v1, One of black's greatest strengths is the ability to discard. I feel there should be some discard in here, and since you are using the MTGCommander banlist.. Mind Twist is broken good.
No Mercy just seems horrendous, honestly. Edric can just bounce it and gain enough tempo that it really wont matter if you cast it again (if you would even want to )
Built-in sweepers to your fatty package seems like a good idea. I can't believe you're not running Steel Hellkite.
I completely disagree with the comment about Mimic Vat. It's only 3 mana to cast, can spam your own ETB effects, steal a creature after the ever common wraths, and forces opponents who love to sacrifice/evoke/recurr spam to think twice before doing so. At the very least it becomes an immediate threat needing to be responded to against several strategies for only three mana.
Imperial Recruiter has six targets to search for. Grand Abolisher, Karmic Guide, Goblin Welder, Stoneforge Mystic, and Weathered Wayfarer. Thats roughly 1/3 of my entire creature base, and all of those cards are fantastic in this deck.
Hellkite Charger ends in an immediate victory 99% of the time if he is not removed before my next turn after ETB. Feast and Famine is almost always one of the first cards I tutor for, and Goblin Welder was added purely to recurr the damn thing before I realized how valuable he was on his own. Aggravated assault is simply a cheaper and easier to tutor version of HC. Significantly harder to respond to (enchantment removal is simply less common than creature in general) and is cheaper to activate if I'm not currently looping a SoFaF.
Maybe you've played against the wrong Kaalia decks, creature presence is indeed not a common thing for this deck, but it makes sure that when my fatties do hit the board, **** is going down hard.
Crucible of Worlds useless? I guess thats why its banned in MTGS 1v1. Cataclysm and Armageddon have their wanks so far up this card that in my deck they might as well be double faced. Even without them, strip mine looping and spamming landfall has significant usefulness, and it allows me to fetch back a Boseiju, Shizo, or HotBL which people love to blow up.
Steel Hellkite will definitely be re-added. He was removed because in multi there were already wrath effects being played every other turn and he became redundant. More mana rocks will be added, need to play test and evaluate each one before deciding which ones fit best into my mana curve.
I need recommendations for what to add for more draw power. Ambition's Cost is floating around in the maybeboard, but other than that I don't really know what else to go for. Are cards like Night's Whisper and Sign In Blood even worth the slot for a +1 advantage in this meta? I have never had a chance to play Phyrexian Arena in a 1v1 match, is it as good here as in multi?
Excluding cards like Mind Twist, discard packages honestly seem lackluster to me in a meta where card draw is plentiful unless it is a stacked strategy. I see the high value in Thoughtsieze or Perish the Thought for combo breaking, but I'll need to do some play testing before I pass judgment on them.
"Common sense is not as common as one would believe."
"These kids today with their collector numbers and their newfangled tap symbol. Twenty Black Lotuses and twenty Plague Rats. Now that's real Magic."-Old Fogey
I completely disagree with the comment about Mimic Vat. It's only 3 mana to cast, can spam your own ETB effects, steal a creature after the ever common wraths, and forces opponents who love to sacrifice/evoke/recurr spam to think twice before doing so. At the very least it becomes an immediate threat needing to be responded to against several strategies for only three mana.
I say I dislike mimic vat because, generally, you wont have much mana open in the first place. You turns will most likely consist of some combination of playing kaalia, equipping, tutoring, playing draw/disruption/utility, or tapping for extra combat phases. All of these seem better uses of mana than leaving three open for a beatstick I may or may not have on it. In practice, most creatures in 1v1 arent worth mimic vatting at the level you're talking about. Yours are probably the only ones that care about vat, other than ptitan. In this case, exile removal is more common, or just flat out bounce. I just dont see mimic vat as the powerhouse you describe. Part of this viewpoint might be that I am sick of folks nearby trying to stick it in every deck.
Imperial Recruiter has six targets to search for. Grand Abolisher, Karmic Guide, Goblin Welder, Stoneforge Mystic, and Weathered Wayfarer. Thats roughly 1/3 of my entire creature base, and all of those cards are fantastic in this deck.
This lack of targets is exactly why I am hesitant about IR. Sure, you can tutor for stoneforge, to tutor for a sword, or maybe wayfarer to tutor for a land... but is this really worth it? Are these effects that important to your deck that you want to be able to get to them every single game? I play IR more like a toolbox than an actual tutor chain enabler. I just dont see it being that great here.
Hellkite Charger ends in an immediate victory 99% of the time if he is not removed before my next turn after ETB. Feast and Famine is almost always one of the first cards I tutor for, and Goblin Welder was added purely to recurr the damn thing before I realized how valuable he was on his own. Aggravated assault is simply a cheaper and easier to tutor version of HC. Significantly harder to respond to (enchantment removal is simply less common than creature in general) and is cheaper to activate if I'm not currently looping a SoFaF.
So, i can assume your main kill condition is the infinite combat steps. What do you do when playing against a bounce/counter happy deck? This was a problem for my 1v1 kaalia, and I ended up playing control with it with Kaalia for the win instead of playkaaliaasapswingwithdragoniwin.
Crucible of Worlds useless? I guess thats why its banned in MTGS 1v1. Cataclysm and Armageddon have their wanks so far up this card that in my deck they might as well be double faced. Even without them, strip mine looping and spamming landfall has significant usefulness, and it allows me to fetch back a Boseiju, Shizo, or HotBL which people love to blow up.
But is this really worth a slot? If you're casting Cataclysm or Armageddon, you have already won the game. Crucible seems win-more. Strip locking is fine, but with such a high curve (even with an enabler like kaalia) i'd think actually generating mana would be more important.
Is boseiju, shizo, or hall really worth crucible's spot? Both hall and boseiju cause tempo loss when you play them, and it gets even worse if you are continually recurring them with crucible. Granted, Hall is utterly amazing... once.
I need recommendations for what to add for more draw power. Ambition's Cost is floating around in the maybeboard, but other than that I don't really know what else to go for. Are cards like Night's Whisper and Sign In Blood even worth the slot for a +1 advantage in this meta? I have never had a chance to play Phyrexian Arena in a 1v1 match, is it as good here as in multi?
Phyrexian Arena is one of the best draw spells you can play. Anything that generates CA is what we want. In my experience, Kaalia decks have horribly matchups vs u/x control, and CA helps. A lot.
Bloodgift Demon is a variant that I would consider.
Skeletal Scrying is an option. I like Night's Whisper and Sign in Blood, but that could just be me.
Excluding cards like Mind Twist, discard packages honestly seem lackluster to me in a meta where card draw is plentiful unless it is a stacked strategy. I see the high value in Thoughtsieze or Perish the Thought for combo breaking, but I'll need to do some play testing before I pass judgment on them.
In practice, I don't play discard simply to erase hands. I play them to see if the coast is clear for a particular play line, or to remove troublesome cards.
That being said, my 1v1 Kaalia is heavily invested in discard. it helps so much in certain matchups, and late game is really a win-condition. Your opponent can't fight back with no cards in hand. Rix maadi, Dungeon Palace is absolutely crazily amazing.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
I need recommendations for what to add for more draw power. Ambition's Cost is floating around in the maybeboard, but other than that I don't really know what else to go for. Are cards like Night's Whisper and Sign In Blood even worth the slot for a +1 advantage in this meta? I have never had a chance to play Phyrexian Arena in a 1v1 match, is it as good here as in multi?
I think that you should change Necropotence into Plunge into Darkness. Far better imo. Costs 1B as opposed to BBB, and is an instant speed. Plus, ramping into Kaalia, cast Plunge into Darkness, pay 30 life to dig up, Rakdos, Iona, or Steel Hellkite, and then playing them for free is devastiting for your opponent- I don't care who you are.
Edit: I don't know why you are playing Promise of Power. Costs a lot, heavily invested in black mana, and is a sorcery. Phyrexian Revoker should take its place.
I say I dislike mimic vat because, generally, you wont have much mana open in the first place. You turns will most likely consist of some combination of playing kaalia, equipping, tutoring, playing draw/disruption/utility, or tapping for extra combat phases. All of these seem better uses of mana than leaving three open for a beatstick I may or may not have on it. In practice, most creatures in 1v1 arent worth mimic vatting at the level you're talking about. Yours are probably the only ones that care about vat, other than ptitan. In this case, exile removal is more common, or just flat out bounce. I just dont see mimic vat as the powerhouse you describe. Part of this viewpoint might be that I am sick of folks nearby trying to stick it in every deck.
Just because a creature isnt a 6/6 flying trample **** on your face doesnt mean that it's not a valuable imprint on mimic vat. All of the common low drops with cheap abilities have their use, from extra ramp to card draw etc...the fact that it exiles one creature from an opponent's GY is useful in itself sometimes, even if I have no intention of casting it.
This lack of targets is exactly why I am hesitant about IR. Sure, you can tutor for stoneforge, to tutor for a sword, or maybe wayfarer to tutor for a land... but is this really worth it? Are these effects that important to your deck that you want to be able to get to them every single game? I play IR more like a toolbox than an actual tutor chain enabler. I just dont see it being that great here.
He usually fetches out Karmic Guide, Goblin Welder, or more commonly Grand Abolisher actually. I really don't understand your tiff with this card, he IS a toolbox in this deck as well. He holds his value in every stage of the game and an ETB tutor is amazing. Phyrexian Reclamation+Sneak Attack makes ETB effects in this deck highly valuable. Mimic Vat stands behind that statement, alongside Karmic Guide.
So, i can assume your main kill condition is the infinite combat steps. What do you do when playing against a bounce/counter happy deck? This was a problem for my 1v1 kaalia, and I ended up playing control with it with Kaalia for the win instead of playkaaliaasapswingwithdragoniwin.
This has been the only one to be a bit insulting to me thus far. Unlike most KotV decks, it's not like I added 30+ beaters with some Lightning Greaves and dual lands then called it a day.
The deck has control. Not insanely heavy amounts, but enough to eliminate significant threats. Your deck is control, mine is aggro. I think you're holding down a lot of your deck's potential by incorporating a response for every "what if" and to me in EDH that just sounds stupid.
Combat phase loop is a win condition, and through my testing it has proven to be the most common one, but this deck boasts enough creatures and combos to win in multiple ways.
If Im playing against a player that likes to bounce/counter everything, I'll do what I've always done and keep my foot on the gas. Force them to run out of responses, wait for them to tap out for the wrong card, and then combo them in the face. People can generate their delusions with their fancy player syndrome as to how they would respond and what they would incorporate to get around this, but almost every time that is what it comes down to for everyone. You either get into a "who has the most counterspells" contest or you keep on pushing and exhaust them all.
I run enough control to where I can at the very least force you to either counter my permanents or counter my removal, but until their stalling resources are exhausted nothing will be staying on the battlefield.
But is this really worth a slot? If you're casting Cataclysm or Armageddon, you have already won the game. Crucible seems win-more. Strip locking is fine, but with such a high curve (even with an enabler like kaalia) i'd think actually generating mana would be more important.
Most of the time these cards are used to either reset or balance the battlefield. I dont see how they are game winners unless you incorporate methods to recover faster than your opponents.
Is boseiju, shizo, or hall really worth crucible's spot? Both hall and boseiju cause tempo loss when you play them, and it gets even worse if you are continually recurring them with crucible. Granted, Hall is utterly amazing... once.
Boseiju is one of the most underrated cards in the entire format. If youre stupid enough to drop him on turn 1-3 then you deserve the loss of temp, save it for mid-late game when you need to start doing some heavy casting.
Phyrexian Arena is one of the best draw spells you can play. Anything that generates CA is what we want. In my experience, Kaalia decks have horribly matchups vs u/x control, and CA helps. A lot.
Bloodgift Demon is a variant that I would consider.
Skeletal Scrying is an option. I like Night's Whisper and Sign in Blood, but that could just be me.
In practice, I don't play discard simply to erase hands. I play them to see if the coast is clear for a particular play line, or to remove troublesome cards.
That being said, my 1v1 Kaalia is heavily invested in discard. it helps so much in certain matchups, and late game is really a win-condition. Your opponent can't fight back with no cards in hand. Rix maadi, Dungeon Palace is absolutely crazily amazing.
Thank you for the feedback, and I still need to test the demon. I'm sketchy about it, I feel like he wouldn't survive long enough to be of value and would regret not simply casting a Promise of Power or its ilk.
With so many decks that can play well out of the GY I really see discard heavy strategies to be full of holes. I know for a fact in my play group the amount of cards drawn and heavy amounts of recursion would quickly override any discard strategy. The only reason my skithiryx deck can pull it off is because as you stated, the most useful function it serves is to peek at hands and see if it's safe. Lets me know if its time to send a rotting dragon carcass flying at their face. I even went so far as to add Urza's Glasses, and have found it thoroughly useful.
"Common sense is not as common as one would believe."
"These kids today with their collector numbers and their newfangled tap symbol. Twenty Black Lotuses and twenty Plague Rats. Now that's real Magic."-Old Fogey
Though it uses the french list (and therefore doesnt have access to sol ring or such broken mana) this is a quick, highly disruptive deck. In fact, pretty much all it is is disruption.
Instead of the toolbox of your deck, it just wants to disrupt the opponent long enough to cast kaalia and drop fat stuff.
There are french meta options in the deck, like Combust and REB - but the idea is still the same.
In regards to the mimic vat statement - as an example of a typical creature in the 1v1 meta - we've got Diregraf Ghoul. It's an efficient creature, that's it. A deck like Sygg or Lyzolda would probably like this, as both are aggro-based strategies. Mimic Vat'ing this is a waste of time. On the other hand, the creatures you run have generally powerful effects - or you wouldn't run them. Copying a Rune-Scarred Demon is great.
@geddons - I've never seen these used effectively to "reset the game" and then hope to rebuild until you suddenly win. The best use of these is to drop a beatstick, then geddon and suddenly you're in the best possible position to win. It's very hard for the opponent to fight back when you're rocking an Iona and they're rocking zero lands.
I still dont think crucible is worth it in this deck.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Though it uses the french list (and therefore doesnt have access to sol ring or such broken mana) this is a quick, highly disruptive deck. In fact, pretty much all it is is disruption.
Instead of the toolbox of your deck, it just wants to disrupt the opponent long enough to cast kaalia and drop fat stuff.
There are french meta options in the deck, like Combust and REB - but the idea is still the same.
In regards to the mimic vat statement - as an example of a typical creature in the 1v1 meta - we've got Diregraf Ghoul. It's an efficient creature, that's it. A deck like Sygg or Lyzolda would probably like this, as both are aggro-based strategies. Mimic Vat'ing this is a waste of time. On the other hand, the creatures you run have generally powerful effects - or you wouldn't run them. Copying a Rune-Scarred Demon is great.
@geddons - I've never seen these used effectively to "reset the game" and then hope to rebuild until you suddenly win. The best use of these is to drop a beatstick, then geddon and suddenly you're in the best possible position to win. It's very hard for the opponent to fight back when you're rocking an Iona and they're rocking zero lands.
I still dont think crucible is worth it in this deck.
I did a lot of play testing after your comments and seeing this list last night Gaka, and am in the process of overhauling the deck once again. This time, instead of the asking people for a casual 1v1 match, I asked for more competitive decks to play against. In my meta, everyone is a try hard so I considered it a decent testing grounds for what I had. Speed in this format was astounding, I see your beef with some of my cards. I also tried out the little discard package I had mentioned, and I liked them a lot. I want to do a little more testing online before I publish a new list for you to pick apart, but all in all thanks for the slap in the ass about the deck. =)
I'm a little pissed that I had never even heard about Ravages of War until seeing this list.
"Common sense is not as common as one would believe."
"These kids today with their collector numbers and their newfangled tap symbol. Twenty Black Lotuses and twenty Plague Rats. Now that's real Magic."-Old Fogey
I did a lot of play testing after your comments and seeing this list last night Gaka, and am in the process of overhauling the deck once again. This time, instead of the asking people for a casual 1v1 match, I asked for more competitive decks to play against. In my meta, everyone is a try hard so I considered it a decent testing grounds for what I had. Speed in this format was astounding, I see your beef with some of my cards. I also tried out the little discard package I had mentioned, and I liked them a lot. I want to do a little more testing online before I publish a new list for you to pick apart, but all in all thanks for the slap in the ass about the deck. =)
I'm a little pissed that I had never even heard about Ravages of War until seeing this list.
U/X decks are the bane of kaalia's existence, which is why the list has main deck hate along with a heavy discard package. Aggro deck? My guys will crush you. Combo? Quick clock + discard makes it difficult for them. Also, there is nothing sweeter than having your opponent confidantly toss some bounce at you kaalia, only to counter it and shove rakdos down their throats.
I did a lot of play testing after your comments and seeing this list last night Gaka, and am in the process of overhauling the deck once again. This time, instead of the asking people for a casual 1v1 match, I asked for more competitive decks to play against. In my meta, everyone is a try hard so I considered it a decent testing grounds for what I had. Speed in this format was astounding, I see your beef with some of my cards. I also tried out the little discard package I had mentioned, and I liked them a lot. I want to do a little more testing online before I publish a new list for you to pick apart, but all in all thanks for the slap in the ass about the deck. =)
I'm a little pissed that I had never even heard about Ravages of War until seeing this list.
Sorry I've been a bit blunt
Yeah, there is quite a bit of difference between casual 1v1 decks and tuned 1v1 decks, and tempo rather than power is the name of the game.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Yeah, there is quite a bit of difference between casual 1v1 decks and tuned 1v1 decks, and tempo rather than power is the name of the game.
I've been in an egotistical mood about KotV lately, I'm glad you were blunt because casual suggestions would have just been skimmed over. =)
Sometimes it's nice to have someone lay you out and tell you you're flat out wrong about something.
"Common sense is not as common as one would believe."
"These kids today with their collector numbers and their newfangled tap symbol. Twenty Black Lotuses and twenty Plague Rats. Now that's real Magic."-Old Fogey
I for one love constructive criticism which is why i put my decklists on the chopping block for stuff like this. this list has proven to be very strong 1v1, and has gotten a bit more resilient in Multiplayer this is the decklist as it stands, Post INN rotation after a decent amount of testing.
this is the deck in its current iteration, there are a few cards on the chopping block right now that need to be looked at a little closer to tighten the list up a bit, possibly a bit more Punishment to scare people from touching Kaalia or anything else i play. otherwise the list works more than solidly for my Meta, but being the DB I am when i play this deck, i wanna make it MUCH more cuthroat but hey, at least I know I'm that douche right? lol
posted this in the other thread you have running, and since my Kaalia list plays more 1v1 than she does in Multiplayer. would love to hear some constructed criticism about the list I'm running
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thanks to SGT_Chubbz for the Awesome Sig!
Standard: UGRBBurning VengeanceBRGU UWBSolar FlareBWU RGWerewolvesGR
Do you really have enough targets to get some true value out of Sunforger?
I don't like running any planeswalkers at all in EDH, but other than Ajani I wouldn't even consider them. Liliana of the Veil is only three mana with a discard and removal package, and I'm still trying to convince myself that she's worth a slot.
Things I learned yesterday- Youre generally not going to beat a U/X player without heavy amounts of hand control. If it costs more than 4 mana and can't be cheated in it better be a must have, and make sure that you take note of where the pop up sprinklers are when sitting in the grass, especially if they are scheduled to turn on soon. ^.^
EDIT: The new deck list is nearly finished, just trying to trim out five more cards.
EDIT2: Finished the new list. It still needs to lose one card, but I can't decide what. What are your opinions on Mind Shatter? I keep glancing at it, but have yet to play it. Mind Twist has proven to be broken, thats for damn sure. Opinions on what card you would remove are welcome, Mimic Vat and Crucible are staying. Call them personal tech if you want, they have both won me too many games.
"Common sense is not as common as one would believe."
"These kids today with their collector numbers and their newfangled tap symbol. Twenty Black Lotuses and twenty Plague Rats. Now that's real Magic."-Old Fogey
The first one seems better in multiplayer games while the second one shines more in 1v1 games.
I haven't really tested out MoR in single, and I've grown fond of the caretaker from past games. I still have MoR from the Kaalia deck I bought, I'll do the swap and test it out.
"Common sense is not as common as one would believe."
"These kids today with their collector numbers and their newfangled tap symbol. Twenty Black Lotuses and twenty Plague Rats. Now that's real Magic."-Old Fogey
while i dont want this to sound to "casual". have you given Bloodgift Demon any thought? Pyrexian Arena is a house. thats what this guys does while he beats face. and with a BB3 cost, you really cant beat it. Pluse its a Demon so you can cheat him in if need be.
Overall, I love the original list and have used it as a loose guide for my own Kaalia deck. After playtesting a bunch 1v1, I do have some legitimate suggestions:
I noticed that hand disruption is usually enough to protect Kaalia from all sorts of things. The card taken out of your opponents hand along with the knowledge of what remains is invaluable. As such, things like Steelshaper's Gift, to search out your 3 equipment, isn't really necessary and can be used for better things.
I feel that you have an abundance of artifact ramp. Most of the choices are solid of course, but I think something like Coldsteel Heart and the Talisman could be cut for other cards. In addition, I find that with this deck, black mana is very important and ideally you want a Swamp on turn 1 in case you draw into the 1 CMC discard spells, so having the Vivid cycle slows you down. I am currently using all of the fetch lands for black.
I've been testing some other creatures and found that Bloodgift Demon is just crazy. Not only is he relatively cheap, but he's also a second Arena which is nice in generating much needed advantage. Another underrated card that has been doing wonderfully for me is Balefire Dragon. Normally I don't like all those big splashy dragons, but the Balefire just comes down and clears your opponents board and followed by an Armageddon like spell, is gg. It is also great in countering Edric and other swarming decks or coming back from a losing situation where you're staring down a bunch of fatties. I highly recommend you give it a try. (Also for Edric, I've been maining both Wrath and Damnation. It's too good after tutoring a Boseiju)
You're also missing Despise. It's not as good as Duress or Thoughtseize, but I just like to have all the 1 CMC discard spells here.
I've also had success with Moonlight Bargain. Being an instant, it's not usually dead and can net you some good spells and at worse, just bin some stuff that you might be able to reanimate later.
Well let me know what you think of these suggestions.
I'm looking into starting to play EDH, and Kaalia looks like loads of fun. I want to build a 1v1 deck with her first, then branch out to multiplayer later.
I'm curious to what changes you would first make to the premade deck. I'm on a budget, but I do plan on getting the good cards, like thoughtsieze, the duals, wasteland, etc. Just over time. So what would you add first?
Also, what do you like in the new set so far?
Thanks!
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This deck only recognizes the OFFICIAL ban list found on mtgcommander.net
About the Deck:
Kaalia of the Vast is a noteworthy card to any EDH player, but has been shunned due to her "weakness." What I've tried to do is create a deck that specializes in heavily controlling an opponent's hand and battlefield to remove any responses they may have to your general so that you can combo your way to victory.
This deck has no direct path to which it must follow. Instead, many paths to victory have been implemented that all compliment and combine with one another to create efficiency and power. Most often you will win by simply overwhelming your opponent with raw power very early on, other times you may play defensive with heavy control and then combo to victory. You can change the entire battlefield in a single turn easily with this deck, and rise from nothing but crumbling ash into an immediate threat with ease.
There is no single strategy or card that completely shuts down this deck, because it boasts so many methods of destruction and win conditions that it is very hard to stop.
If one label had to be chosen I would say this is an aggro deck because it almost always has you pressing your foot on the gas, but it is so much more than that. It can remove permanents just like a control deck, and hosts ridiculous plays just like a combo deck. It takes ages to get bored of playing when you have so many different options to choose from when piloting this powerhouse.
How it plays:
I will write a summary of recommended early, middle, and late gameplay consisting of general strategies and ideal cards to play. The most desirable one's will be listed, of course there are many card's with similar effects that can work in place of them, allowing for much more consistency. I'm not going to list every card that you should be playing at that time, just some of the generally more desirable selections.
Early Game:
Early game all-stars:
Protection:
Removal:
Ramp:
Discard/Hand Controll:
Castigate
Duress
Gerrard's Verdict
Hymn to Tourach
Inquisition of Kozilek
Thoughtsieze
Mesmeric Fiend
Tidehollow Sculler
Mid Game:
Mid game all-stars:
Every creature in your deck just became a possible game changer.
Removal Spells:
Board Wipes:
Discard:
Card Draw:
Recursion:
Gaining Advantage:
Late Game:
Late Game All-Stars:
Destruction:
Recovery/Advantage:
See the combos section for additional tricks up this deck's sleeves.
1 Kaalia of the Vast
Creatures: 17
Protection:
1 Devoted Caretaker
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Hellkite Charger
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Angel of Despair
1 Rakdos the Defiler
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Mesmeric Fiend
1 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Karmic Guide
Instants: 9
Removal:
1 Dismember
1 Mortify
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Terminate
1 Unmake
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Skeletal Scrying
Sorceries: 18
Tutors:
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Grim Tutor
1 Steelshaper's Gift
1 Armageddon
1 Cataclysm
1 Damnation
1 Divine Reckoning
1 Ravages of War
1 Vindicate
1 Castigate
1 Duress
1 Gerrard's Verdict
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Mind Twist
1 Mind Shatter
1 Thoughtsieze
1 Reanimate
Artifacts: 16
Protection:
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Coalition Relic
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond
1 Sol Ring
1 Boros Signet
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Crucible of Worlds
Enchantments: 4
Card Draw:
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Aggravated Assault
1 Sneak Attack
Lands: 36
Mana Lands:
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Badlands
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Blood Crypt
1 Caves of Koilos
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Fetid Heath
1 Godless Shrine
1 Graven Cairns
1 Mountain
2 Plains
1 Plateau
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Scrubland
1 Sulfurous Springs
2 Swamp
1 Vivid Crag
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 High Market
1 Marsh Flats
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
Flood Removal:
1 Consume the Meek
1 Pyroclasm
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Shred Memory
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rule of Law
Changelog:
09-02-2011- Removed Hoard Smelter Dragon, Beseech the Queen, and Price of Glory. Will be adding in Grand Abolisher, Insidious Dreams, and Divine Reckoning. Windbrisk Heights and Spinerock Knoll were removed because their effects weren't as effective as anticipated, only triggering when board advantage was already had. Added in a Plains and a Mountain in their places to speed the deck up a bit
09-02-2011- Remade the "How this deck works" section.
09-03-2011- HUGE overhaul. Removed Aegis Angel, Deathless Angel, Admonition Angel, Basandra, Battle Seraph, Steel Hellkite, Reaper from the Abyss, Reya Dawnbringer, Mother of Runes, Eight-and-a-Half-Tails, Apostle's Blessing, and Razor Barrier.
Added in Land Tax, Phyrexian Reclamation, Imperial Recruiter, Monk Idealist, Aura of Silence, Aggravated Assault, Savage Beating, No Mercy, Sneak Attack, High Market, and Phyrexian Tower.
09-03-2011 Added the Special Thanks spoiler.
09-06-2011 Removed Monk Idealist for Karmic Guide, removed Aura of Silence for Necropotence, and removed Whispersilk Cloak for Weathered Wayfarer
09-06-2011 Removed Orzhov Basilica, Boros Garrison, and Rakdos Carnarium for three basic lands.
09-06-2011 Removed Insidious Dreams to add Crucible of Worlds. Modified lands slightly to add possible combos and versatility.
09-13-2011 Removed Twilight Shepherd and added Reanimate. Removed Cruel Tutor and added Admonition Angel.
09-20-2011 Removed Stonehewer Giant, Champion's Helm, Shield of Kaldra, and Sword of Light and Shadow, and No Mercy. Added Steel Hellkite.
09-21-2011 Deck had a major overhaul.
09-22-2011 Removed Imperial Recruiter, Go for the Throat, Goblin Welder.
Combos/Tips:
Kaalia of the Vast cheats in Rakdos the Defiler, his penalty is avoided and your opponent watches half of his or her permanents vanish.
Sword of Feast and Famine plus Hellkite Charger or Aggravated Assault equals infinite battle phases, and an instant win. Really easy to pull off in this deck.
Mimic Vat equals insane recursion for your ETB effects. Bounce Angel of Despair, Rune-Scarred Demon, Imperial Recruiter, Stoneforge Mystic, or hard lock your opponent down with Yosei, the Morning Star. You can use Sneak Attack to cheat a high CMC creature in and imprint it onto Mimic Vat in a useful combo to gain advantage quickly.
Having Weathered Wayfarer out can generate large advantage on it's own, but especially after having just cast an Armageddon or Cataclysm. Adding the Crucible of Worlds combo to this mix makes for excellent field control and heavily cripples your opponents, usually so much that they are unable to recover at all.
Combine Crucible of Worlds with cards like Strip Mine to soft lock an opponent and destroy their lands, or you can ensure a fresh land drop every turn by using lands like Marsh Flats.
Use Boseiju, Who Shelters All to cast your really important instants and sorceries like Cataclysm or Mind Twist. Your opponents will grimace at their counterspells that they've been sandbagging while you generate advantage.
Deck weaknesses (that I'm aware of):
Lack of graveyard hate. My sideboard actually has a lot of cards with this in it, I'll post that up too when I stop being lazy.
Lack of non-awesomeness. This deck is fun to play and to play against. The combos in the deck aren't usually the type that make the game unfun for the other players, and most are excited to see what you can do next.
If you can point out any more, please do!
Card Choices:
Creatures:
Akroma, Angel of Fury- A straight powerhouse that boasts excellent defenses and amazing art. Easy to pump up for that final little push of damage and can be morphed for faster play.
Angel of Despair- Excellent removal and combos very well with the many spammable recursion strategies used in the deck.
Baneslayer Angel- Easy to cast from hand, has great stats/abilities, and the lifelink can become your savior in a tight pinch. Some defenses.
Devoted Caretaker- Amazing early game. Once your opponents realize how your deck is played, they will become more vigilant at destroying not only KotV, but your other permanents as well. For one mana, this card offers a strong line of defense for your permanents.
Grand Abolisher- The single card in the deck that leaves a completely safe environment to cast your Kaalia without fear.
Hellkite Charger- Use his ability to curb stomp your opponents, and gain overwhelming advantage as Kaalia's ability flood the field. Can be looped into infinite combat phases with ease, a definite win condition in this deck.
Iona, Shield of Emeria- This card can single handedly shut down an opponent completely. Amazing art and flavor for the deck.
Karmic Guide- One of the best creatures in this deck. She combos not only with Kaalia, but with so many other cards that seeing her cast usually ends in a game-changing play.
Linvala, Keeper of Silence- Excellent board control for the deck and is easily cast from hand.
Rakdos the Defiler- Possibly my favorite card in the deck. He can completely obliterate opponents in a single swing, and declaring second attacks with him is not as penalizing in this deck due to the mass land recursion available.
Rune-Scarred Demon- Another ETB effect that becomes priceless when combo'd with. Sets up fantastic plays and boasts solid stats.
Steel Hellkite is an alternative sweeper, and combos well with SoFaF.
Stoneforge Mystic- One of the best early game drops not only in this deck, but in it's color in my opinion.
Weathered Wayfarer- Generates good land advantage at any point in the game, compliments many combos very well to overwhelm your opponent. Used to fetch the more important lands you may need.
Yosei, the Morning Star- Used to lock down an opponent, he can be combo'd into rendering someone unable to cast anything.
Instants:
Enlightened Tutor- Fast and cheap retrieval for any artifact or enchantment.
Mortify- Orzhov was done a solid when this was printed. Very cheap and versatile card.
Path to Exile- Amazingly cheap removal for an immediate threat.
Swords to Plowshares- Cheap removal spell
Terminate- The best black two mana removal spell, amazing art.
Unmake- Permanently eliminate whatever creature threat is in your way.
Vampiric Tutor- One of the best tutor cards in the game.
Sorceries:
Armageddon- Drop this if the tempo of the game is not in your favor, combo's well with the land recursion strategies.
Cataclysm- Usually used just for good measure after Kaalia is cast. Generates stupendous advantage.
Demonic Tutor- One of the best tutor cards in the game.
Divine Reckoning- Usually used just for good measure after Kaalia is cast. Can generate a lot of advantage, and the FB forces opponents to play conservatively until it is removed.
Grim Tutor- Because I already added all of the cheaper CMC tutors.
Reanimate- Single best recursion spell in the game.
Steelshaper's Gift- Great for fetching a WOMD.
Vindicate- The best single target removal spell in the game.
Artifacts:
Boros Signet- Mana fixing and ramp.
Coalition Relic- Mana fixing and ramp.
Coldsteel Heart- Mana fixing and ramp.
Crucible of Worlds- Compliments the mass land destruction in the deck oh so well.
Darksteel Ingot- Mana fixing and ramp, excellent defenses.
Lightning Greaves- Great defense for creatures, and allows instant plays.
Mimic Vat- Amazing combo piece, steal opponents creatures for defense or spam your own ETB effects.
Orzhov Signet- Mana fixing and ramp.
Sensei's Divining Top- Great deck control/draw engine.
Sol Ring- The best single mana ramp in the game.
Swiftfoot Boots- Upgraded version of greaves.
Sword of Feast and Famine- One of the best equipments in the game. Generates card advantage and replenishes mana for stupid combos.
Enchantments:
Aggravated Assault- A flat out game ender in most cases. Best mana dump in the deck for crushing opponents.
Necropotence- One of the best draw engines in the game. Fear Mindslavers when this is in play.
Phyrexian Arena- Draw engine.
Sneak Attack- One of the best cards in the deck, allows you to cheat in heavy beaters or ETB effects.
Cards I'm considering:
Rule of Law (once Kaalia hits, you dont need to cast more than once per turn, combos well with sneak attack.)
Deathrender (Kaalia in a sword)
Quicksilver Amulet (easy fat cheater if KotV is out)
Ambitions Cost(more draw power if needed)
Twilight Shepherd (recursion/combos)
Hoard-Smelter Dragon (massive hate against artifact players)
Price of Glory (blue hatred primarily)
Animate Dead (more recursion)
Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon (alt win con)
Savage Beating
Stuff I've already seen:
Special thanks to:
Prince Tristan, for providing his experienced insight on this format and KotV decks, he was a lot of help and made me rethink the cards that I knew weren't as effective as I wanted them to be, despite my favoritism.
ISBPathfinder, for making several card suggestions, discussing various possible strategies and combos, and answering many questions I had.
Rayschoot, for introducing me to cards and combos I hadn't seen.
Galspanic, for recommending some now must have cards in my deck and clarifying rulings and queries I had.
Blackjack68, For writing an amazing guide for those new to EDH which I studied before choosing any commanders. It provided so much information about the format and saved many people from a long slew of questions that I had. Also for discussing different strategies with me, recommending cards, and using his deck list to discover more effective/versatile cards I could use in place of some others I was running.
I recommend Blackjack68's guide to all new players, and hope it is as useful to you as it was (and still is) to me. If you would like to see his punisher style KotV deck, click here
That1guy34, for recommending a couple of amazing cards that I immediately added and answering some questions I had.
Sanity's Eclipse, for having several discussions with me across various KotV threads and providing game tested information on various plays I had read about, saving me from having to perform them all myself. His Kaalia deck is a variation of the punisher style, and can be found here.
Gaka, for letting me know that I still have a lot to learn about KotV and the 1v1 meta in general. He was responsible for the most recent overhaul to this list and has offered a lot of constructive criticism.
Thank you all so much for your insight, recommendations, and discussions. Being new to the format, I learned a lot not just about this deck but how EDH plays in a general context, and became a better player from it all.
If you have any questions, or want to know why I do or don't run some cards, feel free! I love discussing new ideas and strategies pertaining to KotV =)
WBSorin's ArmyWB
RRRRDWRRR
RGWerewolvesRG
EDH/Commander:
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR(Multiplayer Competitive Primer and Beginner's Guide)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR (1v1 Competitive Primer)
BSkithiryx, the Blight DragonB(1v1 Shotgun Venom)
What Not To Do When Building A KotV Deck:
2. When constructing your deck list, incorporating methods to keep Kaalia on the battlefield is the most important strategy to build. Whether it be through various types of heavy control, super ramping, exhausting all of your opponents resources, or simply stacking defensive cards, no Kaalia deck can function as efficiently if she never touches the field. Instead of trying to ensure a fatty drop on every attack, make it that whenever a fatty is dropped that it has a huge impact.
3. Make sure that almost every card in your deck has high value even if Kaalia is not on the field and/or is unplayable at the moment. Every Commander deck needs to be able to function without its general, KotV is no exception. Having one or two cards that are generally only going to see play if Kaalia is out is not a big deal, but the vast majority of your deck list needs to be castable and effective if Kaalia is not in play.
Popular Strategies Seen In KotV Decks:
If you have a KotV deck that carries a heavy land destruction package and would like it to be featured here as an example, please PM me!
Discarding Advantage- Many Kaalia players have a heavy subtheme of discarding incorporated into their decks to whittle down their opponent's hands so that they are unable to respond to Kaalia at all and have to sit and watch her wreck life totals.
If you have a KotV deck that carries a heavy discard package and would like it to be featured here as an example, please PM me!
Punishing- A more conservative approach on KotV, these decks specialize at bleeding and taxing your opponents over time while strongly defending yourself and then finishing them off in one heavy combo. Blackjack68, a fellow KotV player specializes in this strategy, and has graciously provided this explanation:
"The main strategy is to get/keep/bring back into play cards that punish everything players do and damage everyone, while giving yourself a bit of breathing room with some lifegain and holding off the angry mob with defensive measures. Direct damage and life drain can dramatically hasten everyone's demise. Plenty of recursion and a robust removal suite ensure survivability in a game that goes too long, and a couple of combos can steal a win out of nowhere. Beatdown with a hasty Kaalia and whomever she brings along is an alternate but still somewhat effective plan, especially later in the game when everyone is low on life, and you can likely give Kaalia haste."-Blackjack68
For a more in-depth view on this strategy, you can go to the thread based on it created by Blackjack68 by clicking here
Stacking Battle Phases- Another sub-theme that is really popular with KotV is adding several cards that provide additional battle phases. It's a good strategy in any powerhouse deck, but in KotV it allows you to drop multiple creatures for free per turn and do a very heavy (if not fatal) amount of damage to your opponent.
If you have a KotV deck that carries a heavy extra battle phase package and would like it to be featured here as an example, please PM me!
Alternative Subthemes/Combos Available In KotV:
Sunforger- This equipment can easily become a shining star in a KotV deck. If you run a heavy amount of R/W Instants then this card is almost a must have. I personally recommend adding in Stoneforge Mystic, Goblin Welder, and Stonehewer Giant if you want to run Sunforger more effectively.
[CARD]
Worldgorger Dragon[/CARD] infinite loop combo- By combining Worldgorger Dragon with a spammable recursion card or Animate Dead, you can create an infinite loop for ETB effects as a secondary win condition. Destroy every permanent you don't control with Angel of Despair, tutor infinitely with Rune-Scarred Demon, or simply instantly kill everyone with Piranha Marsh.
Fake Outs- Many KotV players use cards like Maze of Ith or Reconnaissance to trigger Kaalia's effect and then remove her from harm's way. These are heavily recommended if your deck runs only a small amount of combat protection for your creatures. You may want to consider adding in a Weathered Wayfarer, Expedition Map, Enlightened Tutor, or Academy Rector to tutor out your fake out cards.
Landfall- Many creatures that compliment KotV have powerful Landfall abilities. Combining Crucible of Worlds with fetch lands like Arid Mesa can combo very well with cards like Admonition Angel, Ob Nixilis, the Fallen, Emeria Angel, and many more.
THE KOTV LIBRARY, A LIST OF NOTEWORTHY CARDS TO CREATE THE SKELETON OF YOUR KOTV DECK-
Angelic Forces:
Demonic Horde:
Dragon Vanguard:
Other Cards With KotV Effects:
Cards I recommend playing in every KotV deck:
WBSorin's ArmyWB
RRRRDWRRR
RGWerewolvesRG
EDH/Commander:
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR(Multiplayer Competitive Primer and Beginner's Guide)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR (1v1 Competitive Primer)
BSkithiryx, the Blight DragonB(1v1 Shotgun Venom)
My H/W list
Edited soon after creation, this deck only recognizes the official ban list on mtgcommander.net
Cataclysm, Divine Reckoning, No Mercy. With a heavy tutor package installed fetching these cards when needed has not been a problem. Rakdos the Defiler can be somewhat of a sweeper as well, the deck also has a sturdy amount of spot removal for any pesky creatures/abilities. Fly over the rest and laugh at people who try to out aggro a KotV deck.
I haven't played against a Sygg, but Edric is a somewhat popular general at my local shop and he has yet to pose as a problem. Annoying, sure, but every time it's been played against the opponent has either been shut down due to just continual spot removal or continuously blocking the squishy low drops with vigilant creatures.
The first two I have already, I'll start working on making room for them right now. Aether Flash would just be a self lock on casting my own general.
I literally just converted from multiplayer to 1v1, so the deck is going to recieve a few tweaks very soon.
Any opinions on Identity Crisis in this deck? Would I be better off just running Mind Shatter/Mind Twist?
EDIT: Simply added Pyroclasm and Volcanic Fallout to the SB along with Consume the Meek. If I see a general that I know is weak against these cards, problem solved. Didn't want to add them to skeleton list due to them being possibly useless against several other generals and more likely to hinder myself considering Kaalia is a shrubby 2/2.
WBSorin's ArmyWB
RRRRDWRRR
RGWerewolvesRG
EDH/Commander:
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR(Multiplayer Competitive Primer and Beginner's Guide)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR (1v1 Competitive Primer)
BSkithiryx, the Blight DragonB(1v1 Shotgun Venom)
Identity Crisis is a complete waste of time. By the time you've assembled the mana to cast it, the game has probably ended already.
Mimic Vat is likewise too slow. Your mana would be better put somewhere else.
Stonehewer Giant doesnt seem good at 5 mana in 1v1. Far too slow.
Do you have enough targets for Imperial Recruiter to be worth a slot?
Is all that indestructible equipment necessary? It seems to be a bit much, and would clog your hand. Equipping secondaries is pointless.
Chrome Mox, Lotus Petal, Mox Diamond, and the Mirage diamonds would serve you well.
Hellkite Charger seems bad, but I could see it doing great things (particularly with your sword)
Aggravated Assault seems worse than the charger. You can't cheat it out, and with the low numbers of creatures, can be really bad and useless.
Crucible of Worlds doesnt do anything.
If you insist on using Land Tax, Scroll Rack seems good.
You'll be wanting a lot more draw than you currently have, and maindeck cheap sweepers are the nuts, regardless of the meta. You say you have lots of edric around - that's reason enough to run Pyroclasm and Volcanic Fallout. So Kaalia died, you just wiped out Edric's draw engine and the source of its power.
Focus-wise:
I feel there is too much emphasis on Kaalia. You have very few ways of effectively getting your beef out should kaalia die, and a large portion of the sword package is terrible without something to equip it to, like kaalia. Narrow it down to the few equips you really think are good.
More draw power.
In 1v1, One of black's greatest strengths is the ability to discard. I feel there should be some discard in here, and since you are using the MTGCommander banlist.. Mind Twist is broken good.
No Mercy just seems horrendous, honestly. Edric can just bounce it and gain enough tempo that it really wont matter if you cast it again (if you would even want to )
Built-in sweepers to your fatty package seems like a good idea. I can't believe you're not running Steel Hellkite.
end rant.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Stonehewer Giant, Shield of Kaldra, and Sword of Light and Shadow were already predetermined removals.
I completely disagree with the comment about Mimic Vat. It's only 3 mana to cast, can spam your own ETB effects, steal a creature after the ever common wraths, and forces opponents who love to sacrifice/evoke/recurr spam to think twice before doing so. At the very least it becomes an immediate threat needing to be responded to against several strategies for only three mana.
Imperial Recruiter has six targets to search for. Grand Abolisher, Karmic Guide, Goblin Welder, Stoneforge Mystic, and Weathered Wayfarer. Thats roughly 1/3 of my entire creature base, and all of those cards are fantastic in this deck.
Hellkite Charger ends in an immediate victory 99% of the time if he is not removed before my next turn after ETB. Feast and Famine is almost always one of the first cards I tutor for, and Goblin Welder was added purely to recurr the damn thing before I realized how valuable he was on his own. Aggravated assault is simply a cheaper and easier to tutor version of HC. Significantly harder to respond to (enchantment removal is simply less common than creature in general) and is cheaper to activate if I'm not currently looping a SoFaF.
Maybe you've played against the wrong Kaalia decks, creature presence is indeed not a common thing for this deck, but it makes sure that when my fatties do hit the board, **** is going down hard.
Crucible of Worlds useless? I guess thats why its banned in MTGS 1v1. Cataclysm and Armageddon have their wanks so far up this card that in my deck they might as well be double faced. Even without them, strip mine looping and spamming landfall has significant usefulness, and it allows me to fetch back a Boseiju, Shizo, or HotBL which people love to blow up.
Steel Hellkite will definitely be re-added. He was removed because in multi there were already wrath effects being played every other turn and he became redundant. More mana rocks will be added, need to play test and evaluate each one before deciding which ones fit best into my mana curve.
I need recommendations for what to add for more draw power. Ambition's Cost is floating around in the maybeboard, but other than that I don't really know what else to go for. Are cards like Night's Whisper and Sign In Blood even worth the slot for a +1 advantage in this meta? I have never had a chance to play Phyrexian Arena in a 1v1 match, is it as good here as in multi?
Excluding cards like Mind Twist, discard packages honestly seem lackluster to me in a meta where card draw is plentiful unless it is a stacked strategy. I see the high value in Thoughtsieze or Perish the Thought for combo breaking, but I'll need to do some play testing before I pass judgment on them.
EDIT: No Mercy, Stonehewer Giant, Champion's Helm, Shield of Kaldra, and Sword of Light and Shadow have been removed. Sword of Fire and Ice is being looked over, but the color protection it provides has proven useful in the past.
Cards I'm looking to add: Damnation, Thoughtsieze, Mind Twist, Mind Shatter, Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, and Ambition's Cost.
WBSorin's ArmyWB
RRRRDWRRR
RGWerewolvesRG
EDH/Commander:
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR(Multiplayer Competitive Primer and Beginner's Guide)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR (1v1 Competitive Primer)
BSkithiryx, the Blight DragonB(1v1 Shotgun Venom)
I say I dislike mimic vat because, generally, you wont have much mana open in the first place. You turns will most likely consist of some combination of playing kaalia, equipping, tutoring, playing draw/disruption/utility, or tapping for extra combat phases. All of these seem better uses of mana than leaving three open for a beatstick I may or may not have on it. In practice, most creatures in 1v1 arent worth mimic vatting at the level you're talking about. Yours are probably the only ones that care about vat, other than ptitan. In this case, exile removal is more common, or just flat out bounce. I just dont see mimic vat as the powerhouse you describe. Part of this viewpoint might be that I am sick of folks nearby trying to stick it in every deck.
This lack of targets is exactly why I am hesitant about IR. Sure, you can tutor for stoneforge, to tutor for a sword, or maybe wayfarer to tutor for a land... but is this really worth it? Are these effects that important to your deck that you want to be able to get to them every single game? I play IR more like a toolbox than an actual tutor chain enabler. I just dont see it being that great here.
So, i can assume your main kill condition is the infinite combat steps. What do you do when playing against a bounce/counter happy deck? This was a problem for my 1v1 kaalia, and I ended up playing control with it with Kaalia for the win instead of playkaaliaasapswingwithdragoniwin.
But is this really worth a slot? If you're casting Cataclysm or Armageddon, you have already won the game. Crucible seems win-more. Strip locking is fine, but with such a high curve (even with an enabler like kaalia) i'd think actually generating mana would be more important.
Is boseiju, shizo, or hall really worth crucible's spot? Both hall and boseiju cause tempo loss when you play them, and it gets even worse if you are continually recurring them with crucible. Granted, Hall is utterly amazing... once.
Phyrexian Arena is one of the best draw spells you can play. Anything that generates CA is what we want. In my experience, Kaalia decks have horribly matchups vs u/x control, and CA helps. A lot.
Bloodgift Demon is a variant that I would consider.
Skeletal Scrying is an option. I like Night's Whisper and Sign in Blood, but that could just be me.
In practice, I don't play discard simply to erase hands. I play them to see if the coast is clear for a particular play line, or to remove troublesome cards.
That being said, my 1v1 Kaalia is heavily invested in discard. it helps so much in certain matchups, and late game is really a win-condition. Your opponent can't fight back with no cards in hand. Rix maadi, Dungeon Palace is absolutely crazily amazing.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I think that you should change Necropotence into Plunge into Darkness. Far better imo. Costs 1B as opposed to BBB, and is an instant speed. Plus, ramping into Kaalia, cast Plunge into Darkness, pay 30 life to dig up, Rakdos, Iona, or Steel Hellkite, and then playing them for free is devastiting for your opponent- I don't care who you are.
Plus, I feel that you can do with some counterspells. Lapse of Certainty and Mana Tithe would be good. I'd say replace Land Tax and Mimic Vat for these.
Edit: I don't know why you are playing Promise of Power. Costs a lot, heavily invested in black mana, and is a sorcery. Phyrexian Revoker should take its place.
Just because a creature isnt a 6/6 flying trample **** on your face doesnt mean that it's not a valuable imprint on mimic vat. All of the common low drops with cheap abilities have their use, from extra ramp to card draw etc...the fact that it exiles one creature from an opponent's GY is useful in itself sometimes, even if I have no intention of casting it.
He usually fetches out Karmic Guide, Goblin Welder, or more commonly Grand Abolisher actually. I really don't understand your tiff with this card, he IS a toolbox in this deck as well. He holds his value in every stage of the game and an ETB tutor is amazing. Phyrexian Reclamation+Sneak Attack makes ETB effects in this deck highly valuable. Mimic Vat stands behind that statement, alongside Karmic Guide.
This has been the only one to be a bit insulting to me thus far. Unlike most KotV decks, it's not like I added 30+ beaters with some Lightning Greaves and dual lands then called it a day.
The deck has control. Not insanely heavy amounts, but enough to eliminate significant threats. Your deck is control, mine is aggro. I think you're holding down a lot of your deck's potential by incorporating a response for every "what if" and to me in EDH that just sounds stupid.
Combat phase loop is a win condition, and through my testing it has proven to be the most common one, but this deck boasts enough creatures and combos to win in multiple ways.
If Im playing against a player that likes to bounce/counter everything, I'll do what I've always done and keep my foot on the gas. Force them to run out of responses, wait for them to tap out for the wrong card, and then combo them in the face. People can generate their delusions with their fancy player syndrome as to how they would respond and what they would incorporate to get around this, but almost every time that is what it comes down to for everyone. You either get into a "who has the most counterspells" contest or you keep on pushing and exhaust them all.
I run enough control to where I can at the very least force you to either counter my permanents or counter my removal, but until their stalling resources are exhausted nothing will be staying on the battlefield.
Most of the time these cards are used to either reset or balance the battlefield. I dont see how they are game winners unless you incorporate methods to recover faster than your opponents.
Boseiju is one of the most underrated cards in the entire format. If youre stupid enough to drop him on turn 1-3 then you deserve the loss of temp, save it for mid-late game when you need to start doing some heavy casting.
Thank you for the feedback, and I still need to test the demon. I'm sketchy about it, I feel like he wouldn't survive long enough to be of value and would regret not simply casting a Promise of Power or its ilk.
With so many decks that can play well out of the GY I really see discard heavy strategies to be full of holes. I know for a fact in my play group the amount of cards drawn and heavy amounts of recursion would quickly override any discard strategy. The only reason my skithiryx deck can pull it off is because as you stated, the most useful function it serves is to peek at hands and see if it's safe. Lets me know if its time to send a rotting dragon carcass flying at their face. I even went so far as to add Urza's Glasses, and have found it thoroughly useful.
WBSorin's ArmyWB
RRRRDWRRR
RGWerewolvesRG
EDH/Commander:
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR(Multiplayer Competitive Primer and Beginner's Guide)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR (1v1 Competitive Primer)
BSkithiryx, the Blight DragonB(1v1 Shotgun Venom)
Here is beanman and mine's Kaalia list. +/- personal changes
I'm not pretending this is the best kaalia deck out there, but it is a direction.
1 Arid Mesa
1 Badlands
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuku Bog
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Fetid Heath
1 Flagstone of Trokair
1 Godless Shrine
1 Graven Cairns
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 High Market
1 Marsh Flats
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Plateau
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Wasteland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Mountain
3 Plains
4 Swamp
Creatures:
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
1 Angel of Despair
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Mesmeric Fiend
1 Mother of Runes
1 Rakdos The Defiler
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Scourge of Kher Ridges
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Yosei, The morning star
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Liliana of the Veil
Sorceries
1 Armageddon
1 Blightning
1 Castigate
1 Damnation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Duress
1 Starstorm
1 Gerrard's Verdict
1 Grim tutor
1 Hymn to tourach
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Damnation
1 Night's Whisper
1 Pyroclasm
1 Ravages of War
1 Thoughtseize
1 Vindicate
1 Wrath of God
Instants
1 Combust
1 Dismember
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Go for the throat
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Mortify
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Terminate
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Sneak attack
1 Phyrexian Arena
Artifacts
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Boros Signet
1 Marble Diamond
1 Fire Diamond
1 Charcoal Diamond
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Mox Diamond
1 Chrome Mox
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Quicksilver Amulet
1 Defense Grid
Though it uses the french list (and therefore doesnt have access to sol ring or such broken mana) this is a quick, highly disruptive deck. In fact, pretty much all it is is disruption.
Instead of the toolbox of your deck, it just wants to disrupt the opponent long enough to cast kaalia and drop fat stuff.
There are french meta options in the deck, like Combust and REB - but the idea is still the same.
In regards to the mimic vat statement - as an example of a typical creature in the 1v1 meta - we've got Diregraf Ghoul. It's an efficient creature, that's it. A deck like Sygg or Lyzolda would probably like this, as both are aggro-based strategies. Mimic Vat'ing this is a waste of time. On the other hand, the creatures you run have generally powerful effects - or you wouldn't run them. Copying a Rune-Scarred Demon is great.
@geddons - I've never seen these used effectively to "reset the game" and then hope to rebuild until you suddenly win. The best use of these is to drop a beatstick, then geddon and suddenly you're in the best possible position to win. It's very hard for the opponent to fight back when you're rocking an Iona and they're rocking zero lands.
I still dont think crucible is worth it in this deck.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I did a lot of play testing after your comments and seeing this list last night Gaka, and am in the process of overhauling the deck once again. This time, instead of the asking people for a casual 1v1 match, I asked for more competitive decks to play against. In my meta, everyone is a try hard so I considered it a decent testing grounds for what I had. Speed in this format was astounding, I see your beef with some of my cards. I also tried out the little discard package I had mentioned, and I liked them a lot. I want to do a little more testing online before I publish a new list for you to pick apart, but all in all thanks for the slap in the ass about the deck. =)
I'm a little pissed that I had never even heard about Ravages of War until seeing this list.
WBSorin's ArmyWB
RRRRDWRRR
RGWerewolvesRG
EDH/Commander:
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR(Multiplayer Competitive Primer and Beginner's Guide)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR (1v1 Competitive Primer)
BSkithiryx, the Blight DragonB(1v1 Shotgun Venom)
U/X decks are the bane of kaalia's existence, which is why the list has main deck hate along with a heavy discard package. Aggro deck? My guys will crush you. Combo? Quick clock + discard makes it difficult for them. Also, there is nothing sweeter than having your opponent confidantly toss some bounce at you kaalia, only to counter it and shove rakdos down their throats.
My H/W list
Sorry I've been a bit blunt
Yeah, there is quite a bit of difference between casual 1v1 decks and tuned 1v1 decks, and tempo rather than power is the name of the game.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I've been in an egotistical mood about KotV lately, I'm glad you were blunt because casual suggestions would have just been skimmed over. =)
Sometimes it's nice to have someone lay you out and tell you you're flat out wrong about something.
P.s. Mimic Vat is still f***ing awesome.
WBSorin's ArmyWB
RRRRDWRRR
RGWerewolvesRG
EDH/Commander:
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR(Multiplayer Competitive Primer and Beginner's Guide)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR (1v1 Competitive Primer)
BSkithiryx, the Blight DragonB(1v1 Shotgun Venom)
posted this in the other thread you have running, and since my Kaalia list plays more 1v1 than she does in Multiplayer. would love to hear some constructed criticism about the list I'm running
thanks to SGT_Chubbz for the Awesome Sig!
Standard:
UGRBBurning VengeanceBRGU
UWBSolar FlareBWU
RGWerewolvesGR
EDH
RWBKaalia Of the VastBWR
BROlivia VoldarenRB
- Painful Quandary
- Solemn Simulacrum
- Martyr's bond
- Debtors' Knell
- Beseech the Queen
(its either extremely expensive or three black mana, which can be very hard to generate early game)Cards that I commonly see but personally hate:
Do you really have enough targets to get some true value out of Sunforger?
I don't like running any planeswalkers at all in EDH, but other than Ajani I wouldn't even consider them. Liliana of the Veil is only three mana with a discard and removal package, and I'm still trying to convince myself that she's worth a slot.
Things I learned yesterday- Youre generally not going to beat a U/X player without heavy amounts of hand control. If it costs more than 4 mana and can't be cheated in it better be a must have, and make sure that you take note of where the pop up sprinklers are when sitting in the grass, especially if they are scheduled to turn on soon. ^.^
EDIT: The new deck list is nearly finished, just trying to trim out five more cards.
EDIT2: Finished the new list. It still needs to lose one card, but I can't decide what. What are your opinions on Mind Shatter? I keep glancing at it, but have yet to play it. Mind Twist has proven to be broken, thats for damn sure. Opinions on what card you would remove are welcome, Mimic Vat and Crucible are staying. Call them personal tech if you want, they have both won me too many games.
WBSorin's ArmyWB
RRRRDWRRR
RGWerewolvesRG
EDH/Commander:
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR(Multiplayer Competitive Primer and Beginner's Guide)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR (1v1 Competitive Primer)
BSkithiryx, the Blight DragonB(1v1 Shotgun Venom)
I haven't really tested out MoR in single, and I've grown fond of the caretaker from past games. I still have MoR from the Kaalia deck I bought, I'll do the swap and test it out.
WBSorin's ArmyWB
RRRRDWRRR
RGWerewolvesRG
EDH/Commander:
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR(Multiplayer Competitive Primer and Beginner's Guide)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR (1v1 Competitive Primer)
BSkithiryx, the Blight DragonB(1v1 Shotgun Venom)
I noticed that hand disruption is usually enough to protect Kaalia from all sorts of things. The card taken out of your opponents hand along with the knowledge of what remains is invaluable. As such, things like Steelshaper's Gift, to search out your 3 equipment, isn't really necessary and can be used for better things.
I feel that you have an abundance of artifact ramp. Most of the choices are solid of course, but I think something like Coldsteel Heart and the Talisman could be cut for other cards. In addition, I find that with this deck, black mana is very important and ideally you want a Swamp on turn 1 in case you draw into the 1 CMC discard spells, so having the Vivid cycle slows you down. I am currently using all of the fetch lands for black.
I've been testing some other creatures and found that Bloodgift Demon is just crazy. Not only is he relatively cheap, but he's also a second Arena which is nice in generating much needed advantage. Another underrated card that has been doing wonderfully for me is Balefire Dragon. Normally I don't like all those big splashy dragons, but the Balefire just comes down and clears your opponents board and followed by an Armageddon like spell, is gg. It is also great in countering Edric and other swarming decks or coming back from a losing situation where you're staring down a bunch of fatties. I highly recommend you give it a try. (Also for Edric, I've been maining both Wrath and Damnation. It's too good after tutoring a Boseiju)
You're also missing Despise. It's not as good as Duress or Thoughtseize, but I just like to have all the 1 CMC discard spells here.
I've also had success with Moonlight Bargain. Being an instant, it's not usually dead and can net you some good spells and at worse, just bin some stuff that you might be able to reanimate later.
Well let me know what you think of these suggestions.
I'm curious to what changes you would first make to the premade deck. I'm on a budget, but I do plan on getting the good cards, like thoughtsieze, the duals, wasteland, etc. Just over time. So what would you add first?
Also, what do you like in the new set so far?
Thanks!