Competitive Tempo Edric (U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)
"Edric.Good_Stuff.deck"
Introduction
To Start off with, this is my first primer so please forgive me if it's not particularly awesome. That said, I've been playing Edric since he was spoiled and this is easily my favorite deck.
Edric is AWESOME, one of the top EDH generals ever printed. He creates a MASSIVE amount of CA (EVERY creature you connect with EVERY turn draws you a card), he's blue, and very inexpensive to cast (and re-cast when necessary).
My friend referred to this deck as essentially a 100 card singleton legacy deck, and with only a few exceptions, every card in the deck saw some level of tournament play in some format.
The idea for this deck actually started off as a result of me reading and enjoying a Sygg Tempo deck primer. After Edric was spoiled I realized he could function in a similar fashion, only trading (the superior) black for better CA (Sygg can draw you 2 extra max per a round).
Why Play Edric?
If you like playing blue but still like turning creatures sideways, this may be the deck for you. I love playing blue, it is far and away my favorite color in magic as it's the color that you do the most thinking in and have to respond to situations differently. However, straight control (I used to play Erayo pre-banning) strategies can make for fairly boring (and slow) EDH games. With Edric, you get to play an army of different utility dudes and win by actually attacking, instead of doing something dumb (but awesome) like looping Mindslaver or beacon of tomorrows infinitely.
If you're huge into combos, this might not be the deck for you. While there is great synergy between numerous cards, it's on a much smaller scale (we're talking Aether Vial + Dryad Arbor level interactions)
Basic Game Plan
The deck's goal is to drop a few creatures in the first turn or two, play Edric, then proceed to draw like 3-5 cards per turn while countering (or otherwise dealing with) every spell your opponent plays for the rest of the (very quick) game.
In general, I only follows only the main banned list, but seeing as most 1v1 stuff uses the French banned list, I have a separate list if you're forced to follow that.
In Case You're French:
- Sol Ring (banned)
- Mana Drain (banned)
- Hinder (No longer effective)
- Mana Crypt (banned)
- Strip Mine (banned)
+ Deprive
+ Foil
+ Sword of Feast and Famine (Want to spend some more time testing with this)
+ Boreal Druid
+ Island
Deck Philosophy:
There are two types of Edric Decklists "Good_Stuff.deck" and "****ty_1CC_Creatures.deck"
I play the former, and the latter revolves around dudes like Scryb Sprites whom I'll discuss (mostly b/c I love me my flying green dudes).
Scryb Sprites is a bad card, it's hard to argue against this. With Edric in play, suddenly though the Sprites power level jumps enormously. HOWEVER, when Edric isn't on the board, suddenly your deck just sucks terribly. Trading Scryb Sprites for a more versitile creature like Vendillion Clique allows your deck to still be powerful when Edric is sitting on the board.
Additionally, the deck's curve only goes up by the smallest amount. I run barely a half-dozen 3+CC creatures, but my creature quality goes up enormously.
Card Choices:
Sorry, but I'm fairly lazy and haven't updated this in a while Mana Excelleration (5): Exploration - This card has been an amazing T1, and is never a bad draw later on, as you often find yourself drawing multiple land per turn throughout the game. Being able to pull ahead so far so fast is really nice. The only thing better would be Fastbond, but seeing as it's super banned, this is the next best thing!
Sol Ring, Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, Mana Crypt - These are some of the best cards for EDH. Each of them is basically a 0-1cc timewalk. Their disadvantages are almost completely moot as we're drawing so many cards throughout the game. I almost can't imagine a competitive deck without these in them.
Polluted Delta, Wooded Foothills, Windswepth Heath, Flooded Strand, Scalding Tarn, Verdant Catacombs, Misty Rainforest - Full suite of fetchlands, they grab tropical island then breeding pool.
Blinkmoth Nexus, Inkmoth Nexus, Mishra's Factory - Manlands are great, the fact that the nexuses fly is icing on the cake. Inkmoth Nexus + Jitte also is a 2 turn clock, and even if it's not really swinging for damage (if you can't possibly get to 10 poison). As a note, Mishra's Factory should be a mutavault (to trigger Notorous Throng), but I don't own one...
Strip Mine, Wasteland - I think playing EDH without these two in your deck is a mistake.
Dryad Arbor - It's in here as another Llanowar Elves (via GSZ or AEther Vial), though I've never been completely sold on the card though as it sets you back an entire turn if it's your only land drop for a turn.
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Counterspells (13)
The backbone of the decks game-plan. Choosing what to counter and when often determines whether or not you're going to win as the deck tries to play basically draw-go starting ~turn 4.
Mana Drain, Counterspell - 2cc card counter, can't go wrong here. If you can't use Mana Drain's mana the next, it's not a big deal, I usually just think of it as a really really expensive counterspell.
Memory Lapse, Remand, Delay - Tempo counterspells, as this is a tempo deck, these seem to fit just perfectly. You draw enough cards that just delaying (lol lol lol...) stuff from coming out is often enough to win.
Mana Leak, Hinder, Cryptic Command, Voidslime, Arcane Denial - all solid counters and don't really need any explanation. Arcane Denial, while giving your opponent 2 cards, isn't really that bad for you as it's still stopping their threat for the turn.
Forbid - Awesome card, and against a lot of decks forbid (along with edric's draw) will be a hard lock all by itself
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Removal (2) Snap - Boomerang, but it doesn't cost a mana, which is HUGE. You're tapping out almost every turn early in the game and being able to remove a blocker and still curve out is great.
Into the Roil - More bounce, this time with a CC, but is has a cantrip built in and you can never have too much draw. Once you settle into draw-go, this card is great and makes sure you're not wasting any mana.
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Equipment (3) Skullclamp - None of the equipment really need explanation, least of all skullclamp. It's also worth pointing out that if Edric gets tucked into your library, skullclamp can pick up the slack in terms of CA.
Umezawa's Jitte - Best equipment ever, it does everything. Most importantly, it removes blockers (without costing you any additional mana).
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Utility Stuff (8) AEther Vial - one of the strongest t1 drops you can make. With such a low curve, it basically doubles your mana every turn, and lets you leave counter mana open and still cast threats. Also, it combo's with dryad arbor as you can cast it right away!
Winter Orb / Tangle Wire - These are both really unfair cards, and have been the heart of many a prison decks throughout magic. Your opponents threats (usually) cost more mana than yours, thus by simply playing this, you're giving yourself a huge edge (and often timewalking yourself several times over the course of a game). Also, CC of counterspell < CC of spell it's countering, just adding to the awesomeness of the deck. Make sure you stack the Tangle Wire triggers so that you remove the counter first (and tap tangle wire itself - along with any PWers or artifacts / enchantments).
Garruk Wildspeaker - the perfect planeswalker. All his abilities are custom tailored for this deck. His + lets you play him AND leave counter mana open. His - throws out a dude. His ultimate ends the game. What more could you ask for.
Jace TMS - What more could you ask for... Well JTMS. Fine Jace > Garruk. Brainstorm got a nod in this deck, so brainstorm on a stick = good. Also snap (which also found it's way into the deck) on a stick = good, also his + is super powerful for this deck. Your opponent will have few actual threats to this deck, and you can just make sure he never finds any of them. Oh and his ultimate wins also.
Notorious Throng - Timewalk + like 5 flying dudes + draw 8, that's good, right? Oh and did I mention that our general... is a rogue, awesome.
Standstill - This card is stupid dumb good. And usually locks up a game once you have any kind of a board presence.
Equilibrium - A recent addition, equilibrium has been fantastic. It turns ALL your dudes into man-o-war's and is just straight stupid on dudes with flash.
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Draw / Tutor (3) Brainstorm - Solid cantrip and massively (and incorrectly) underplayed in EDH. With all the shuffling effects in this deck, it's often is just as good as ancestral recall.
Survival of the Fittest - Need that eternal witness to start looping notorous throng? Need to find Edric after a condemn? Need to find a counter (mystic snake / snapcaster mage)? Need to... Survival finds them all and lets you always have the card you need. It turns your whole deck into one giant toolbox, and it doesn't get much better than that.
Sylvan Library - This is a green Spinny Top, but better, as it lets you draw multiple cards a turn for some life (which is effectively halved - as you have 2x as much life in EDH). With a full 7 fetchlands, survival, and several other tutor effects, you can shuffle your library very consistently, making this all the more powerful.
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La Dudes
CC = 1 Sylvan Safekeeper - Invitational dudes are awesome, and this guy is no exception. He seems to be tailor made for Edric (and just about every other format :-)). He comes down the first turn AND lets you counter targeted removal spells without having to tap any mana to activate (letting you still cast other stuff). Probably the toughest turn for this deck is the turn you play Edric because it's the only turn in the game that your opponents removal spells will actually have a shot at killing Edric, losing a tapped land is WAY better than losing Edric, so this guy is champ.
Cursecatcher - Counterspell on a body is great, even better when you don't have to tap mana to activate it. The cool thing about these cards is that your opponent will almost never tap out to play a spell cursecatcher could counter, so it ends up making your opponent wait an entire turn to cast some spells, creating some nice tempo advantage.
Martyr of Frost - A 1cc walking counterspell, this guy is awesome (and a new addition as I just discovered him). You should always have some cards in hand to reveal thanks to Edric, so this should stay basically a hard counter for the entire game. It's also surprisingly funny to counter their spell by revealing 3-4 counterspells in your hand (I had a friend concede after doing this)
CC = 2 looter il-kor - Merfolk Looter never looked so good. He's unblockable, lets you 'draw' an additional card each turn, AND prowlsnotorious throng. I am always happy to draw this guy.
Cloud of Faeries - Essentially a free evasive dude, combined with an AEther Vial at 2, lets you do so very fancy tricks.
Spiketail Hatching - I think I'm running almost every (4>cc) dude that has a built in counterspell, they're just awesome. Hatchling curves well with Edric, helps protect him the turn he comes out, and flies, an overall great guy.
Plaxmanta - just awesome, this is a dude that EtB and counters a removal spell, not sure how it can get much better (I guess if he flew, but that's like saying "Snapcaster Mage / dark confident would have been so much better if they had flying"). The EtB counterspell dudes are so much better because they leave a guy behind, I can't imagine a good Edric list not running him.
Voidmage Prodogy - Invitational dude numero dos, counterspell on a body = good. Occasionally you just can't draw the counterspells later in the game, and this guy can save your life when that happens. You can often get 2-3 activations out of him, as the deck is chalked full of wizards, but at worst he's a hard version of a lot of the guys in the deck.
Eladamri, Lord of Leaves - 2cc dude that gives Edric shroud, I'm not going elf themed so he doesn't do a whole lot else, but he's amazing at what he does do.
Fauna Shaman - Survival of the Fittest on a body. Most importantly, he finds Edric after he's been tucked away in your library. Also, in the late game, he makes sure you can counter opponents threats each turn (searching up Mystic Snake, Venser, Snapcaster, etc...)
scryb ranger - Lol, this card is stupid. I suppose here is as good a spot as any to discuss my feelings towards creatures with Flash. After the first few turns, you're not going to want to play spells on your turn any more because you instead want to leave mana open for counterspells (this btw is the reason why AEther Vial is so amazing in this deck). If your opponent doesn't play a threat though, you've just wasted all that potential mana. In comes flash creatures, now you aren't wasting any tempo. On to Scryb Ranger itself, it singlehandedly beats V. Clique, which is enough in and of itself is awesome. But it also has flying and a cool ability. (And being a faerie is a nice benefit for Spellstutter Sprite)
Spellstutter Sprite - A 2cc flying, flash, dude that counters stuff when he EtB!
Erayo, Soratami Ascendant - Likely the best "dude" in the deck (and maybe the best card). With a curve so low, it's super easy to flip him, and once that happens, you've won the game (I can't think of a game where I've flipped Erayo and not won). He's also really good at slowing down an opponents turn and can work kind of like pseudo arcane laboratory. Lets say you have 4 mana open on your opponents turn and they play that Serra Ascendant they just top decked and you remand it back to their hand. If they recast it, and you play ANYTHING else, Erayo flips and they (almost certainly) lose the game, meaning many opponents will just pass the turn, gaining you a huge tempo advantage. Plus, he's got evasion to boot.
Waterfront Bouncer - Repeatable (and dirt cheap) bounce effect on a stick, the "discard a card" clause is basically negligible as you draw SO MANY cards.
Phyrexian Revolker - This deck doesn't sport a lot of artifact / enchantment removal, so that's where revolker comes in, he neutralizes most useful artifacts / enchantments. Additionally, he neutralizes planeswalkers which is super important. You don't draw cards off of Edric when you attack an Elspeth, but you still have to deal with it, that's where Revolker can come in and shine.
Invisible Stalker - Maybe the worst dude of the bunch, but he's still unblockable, untargetable, and a rogue. He also holds a Jitte extremely well.
CC = 3 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner - Flies and makes ALL your dudes basically untargetable, very very strong.
AEther Adept, Man-o-war - They bounce a dude on EtB and leave behind a body to draw some cards. These are the very definition of tempo advantage creatures
Trygon Predator - This card is great, everyone who's anyone uses artifacts and this guy just eats them up. He's a tutor target for GSZ and a really important card to find at various points.
Eternal Witness - Like a not as surprising snapcaster, Eternal Witness usually grabs you counterspell and lets you replay it; unlike snapcaster, it can get other stuff that's hit the gy like winter orb or erayo.
Vendilion Clique - Flying, flash, a faerie AND a wizard (for voidmage), AND lets you get rid of your opponents most important card. It also lets you play another general tuck effect (we have oh so many bounce spells)
Spiketail Drakeling - Spiketail hatchling's big bro, same card, different name. I wonder if they'll ever do a spiketail drake / dragon.
CC = 4 Mystic Snake - Counterspell on a stick, oh so very nice.
Venser Shape Servant - Counterspell on a stick, oh so very nice. He's also a wizard (for voidmage) and can bounce troublesome permanents when he has too.
Recent Changes
Cuts: Notorious Throng - Too often would sit in my hand when edric either wasn't in play or couldn't get through for damage (if they had a chump blocker for instance)
Invisible Stalker - With Throng cut, stalker seemed a little too weak, so he got the axe, if I end up bringing in SoFaF, I may bring stalker back because he wears the swords so well
Man-o-war - I've been not so happy with Man-o-war / Aether adept, as sad as it seems, 3CC is a lot to spend on a dude (usually after edric hits the board, I try to just sit back and counter stuff), and not having flash makes them not reactive enough (Venser is a champ though). Anyway, I'm keeping Aether adept for now and I'm going to see how it feels (occasionally I survival for these guys), Adept gets the nod despite the UUdue to the awesomeness with voidmage prodigy.
Additions: Martyr of Frost - 1cc creature counterspell Gitaxian Probe - Free information is really good Stifle - against any multi-color deck (i.e. decks with 7+ fetchlands), this basically reads "U, Stone Rain", also there's tons of other stuff I would like to counter
Noble Hierarch is banned in your colour combination, since it has a W in it's text box and your Commander is just UG.
opps, well that was fairly stupid of me... Oh well. I also made some significant changes. I lowered the curve significantly (only 2 spells in the deck with CC over 4) to make it more aggro.
I'm already a few cards over (still ironing out the exact list). I agree that Dosan should be cut, as well as bonesplitter and concordant crossroads (your reasoning is sound).
However, I feel like Aluren should stay. It's going to be a huge advantage for me (1/3 of my deck and half the non-land cards) compared to an opponent. In addition, it lets me play my cards while keeping counter mana open (and have a buffer against sorcery speed removal).
The decklist was at 103, so after removing those three cards, I'll be at an even 100!
As for other changes, I'm looking at these for additions:
My point with Aluren is, it is really gonna help your opponent, more than it helps you.
From my experience with Sygg, all you wanna do is put a reasonable clock on the table, then switch to a control deck; at this point it doesn't really matter if you can flash attackers at the end of turn, because you can win the game with what you already have; on the other side, having the opponent flashing in dangerous blockers or annoying creatures is gonna be painful, and might cost you games which were otherwise impossible to lose.
And don't forget you have to pay 4 at sorcery speed to cast Aluren, allowing the opponent to flash in annoying creatures for free while you have your pants down, because your counterspell creatures both cost 4.
Alright, I'm convinced Aluren can get cut, though I still think it's an incredibly cool idea.
I was always a huge fan of aggro-control type of builds, and this build already looks awesome and fun.
I'm not sold on Lighthouse Chronologist, Wirewood hivemaster and Eladamri also look very out of place in a build with only 6 elves (including themselves lol). Also don't like Aluren.
The two elves were included because the general is an elf. Turn 2 hivemaster seems like one of the best turn 2 you can hope for (well besides Turn 2 cloud of faeries -> hivemaster). Because when your general hits turn 3, you get an addition creature for free (= an additional draw every turn). Eladamri gives the general shroud, fits the curve well and can randomly help vs green decks, though I don't know for sure that's enough reason for his inclusion.
I'm fine cutting Chronologist as he's fairly slow to get going.
I would add Aether Figment and Escape Artist before I add the sentry. Archmage should definately make the cut. Unlike Sygg, I don't think Mask of Memory is as good here as in sygg (for example), because between skullclamp (via Trinket Mage) and Edric, I have plenty of draw. The Swords are great and may eventually go in.
For now though.
- Lighthouse Chronologist
- Aluren
+ Aether Figment
+ Glen Elendra Archmage
And thank you guys for your help.
oh and I'm also "fixing" the mana base to remove the come's into play tapped cards
I would run both skullclamp and mask of memory. Skullclamp as a pseudo protection from removal + plus occasional brain offering for 2 cards, Mask for almost certain "draw 2" in this build. If you played it in Sygg build then you know that its an amazing CA engine, and in MTG ain't such thing as "too much draw". After all, your general can die or visit a bottom a library hehe.
About Hivemaster; he'll be a dead draw later in the game plus one 1/1 stinking insect T3 really doesn't justify him being in the deck. The same goes for mr. Eladamri and his shroud... But if you wanna play with token pressure you should consider Deranged Hermit and Opposition. But I'd rather work on my counters if I were you... Nothing like a sweet extra drawing with open mana for one or two counters, m m m.
Alright, I do suppose that draw is good, so lets do:
- Wirewood
- Eladamri
+ Mask of Memory
+ Arcane Denial
I ended up cutting hermit just because it was 5 mana, and you're right, it being tucked is bad, and makes hermit terrible.
Wow, Temporal spring is surprising cool, I really like it, too bad it's a sorcery, but you can't have everything. What do you think should be cut for it? Also, I realized I didn't add the 0-1 mana excellerators (Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, Sol Ring, and Mana Crypt - all of which are ok in my playgroup) from my old build, so I had to cut a few cards. Patagia Viper and Spawnwrithe both got the axe, I cut a land (35 total now), and I need to cut one more card.
Finally, I have fairly intensive mana and tempo requirements and my man-lands had to go.
Uhm, you must play in a super aggressive EDH meta, cause this type of short term accelleration and tempo cards have never done me any good in any EDH game.
Neither have the soft counters. Might as well play foil/thwart/dispel/envelop/turn aside, also very situational cards but at least they are hard counters.
Other ideas might be to add more token building engines:
Uhm, you must play in a super aggressive EDH meta, cause this type of short term accelleration and tempo cards have never done me any good in any EDH game.
Neither have the soft counters. Might as well play foil/thwart/dispel/envelop/turn aside, also very situational cards but at least they are hard counters.
Other ideas might be to add more token building engines:
Probably the best token generator in GU is deranged hermit (5 mana for 5 creatures), and I ended up cutting it for a cheaper spell. (the only 2 expensive cards, i.e. with a casting cost 4> , are bribery and Notorious Throng. The former wins games randomly when you would otherwise lose, and the latter, which you only play for it's prowl cost, timewalks and makes like 5 dudes), in a slower build however many of those cards would be extremely useful. This deck lives off of tempo (as that's all you need for the first few turns before you've locked down the deck) so you don't need hard counters.
Do you guys think his list can be used in Multiplayer games as well ?
No, the deck would fizzle out horribly. You would want a higher curve with only hard counters (to deal with mass removal). Cards like Consecrated Sphinx and Mind's eye are significantly better, as well as stuff like spitting image (an amazing card btw). Something closer to my original list (third post down in a spoiler tag, but with slight modifications.
Handsome Sailor:
I do want more 1 drops, though I don't know if vanilla flyers are the way to go (though coastal pirates >>>>>> the rest of the field due to it's awesomeness).
I also have a couple of lists of cards that I've been considering: Sylvan Safekeeper - 1 mana dude, and essentially has built in turn aside for free (the loss of a land is negligable with all the draw) and can stop all spot removal against your dudes. Chain of Vapor - 1 mana bounce and, as my dudes are faster in general than an opponent, if we restart the game, I will win. Declaration of Naught - There's a thread dedicated to this which brought it to my attention, less and less of a fan as time goes on, but it still completely hoses decks like Zur and Arcum if it resolves (i.e. 4cc+ generals that aren't thrun). spiketail hatchling - would be an auto include, except it just makes your opponent accidently play around your daze / force spike and you end up having to go 1 for 2. Though it's still amazing. Scryb Ranger - overlaps with your list Mana Drain - I don't own one and don't plan on ever buying one, but definitely an auto include in the ideal version of the deck (though as I don't mind proxying...)
Tolarian Entrancer / Saprazzan Heir - cool attacker in conjunction with edric Vedalken Shackles - reusable control magic effect (large creatures are largely irreverent as they will never be cast), great against smaller generals like Erayo and Sygg as well as removing the blocker from an opponent, with the increase back to 'basic' lands (only 5 lands without the island or forest type) seems just too good to pass up. Helm of Possession - same idea as shackles but lets you grab anything. Spellstrutter Sprite - overlaps with your list Standstill - overlaps with your list Into the Roil - overlaps with your list
The real question at this point is, what gets the ax? I'm at 101 right now, so one card has to go just to bring it back down to 100. But then what else should be cut to make room for seemingly obvious includes like mana drain / safekeeper / hatching / spellstrutter sprite, not to mention the other cards I'd like to see like shackles, elvish spirit guide, and into the roil.
I am glad I finally found this post and can join in on the discussion. I have been tweaking this deck all weekend.
Sakashima the Impostor on Edric for overkill and LOLZ! I think this works right?
Intruder Alarm + Imperious Perfect + any manna dork is a sick combo!
Azusa, Lost but Seeking to drop the additional lands we draw I have a slightly different build I hope to get around to perfecting and posting
handsome_sailor:
Ok so the way I figure it, the weakest cards left in the deck are:
*Viridian Zealot - G mana intensive and EtB >> sac effects [though the closest replacements for a similar effect is Wickerbough Elder and maybe Viridian Shaman and friends (which are worse because can be a dead draw when you're the only one with an artifact in play)]
*Vengevine - Vanilla creature, though haste and recursion are both relevant
*Gaea's Skyfolk - one of many 2 CC fliers, all the other ones do stuff though (an extra power/toughness is largely irrelevant)
*Sakura-Tribe Elder - Fixes mana, but not much else, plus to do it, I have to sac the creature which essentially loses you a card draw (same as Zealot).
*Phyrexian Metamorph - only really good with cool creatures on the board, at which point we're ahead, though by no means a bad card here.
*Bribery - 5CC, but otherwise amazing
I already did (1 extra cut to bring down to 100 (compared to 101):
- Gaea's Skyfolk
- Vengevine
- Viridian Zealot
- Phyrexian Metamorph (though not sure I should)
+ Spiketail Hatchling
+ Sylvan Safekeeper
+ Into the Roil
I'm playing some more games this evening and I'll keep track of what was best and worst (and what I would rather have in any given situation.
Albus Severus:
You should post your decklist, would be good to see the approach others are taking. I'll take a look at the suggestions you made also.
I actually work on the same deck right now. It is quite similar as Sygg deck.The main difference may be Edric brings better draw power but Sygg get hand control, tutor, and spot remove. I think Edric has to run more than 20 counters to handle lack of spot remove things.
For creatures, I think it s better to avoid any creatures cost higher than 3. (Mystic Snake and Venser Shape Servant may be the only exception.)
I think Tarmogoyf should be included in the deck. It is an aggro deck. It should deal damage fast in the early game. and Edric just refills your gas right the way.
Rancor is better than most equipments in an aggro deck. We should not forget it.
Opposition may be the only card to help Edric win in the late game.
Pongify is at least a low-cost creature remove for blue.
You seem to be lacking one drop creatures, I recommend the following: Bird's of paradise, Arbor Elf, Elvish Pioneer - Helps for a turn 2 Edric
Any one of the 1 mana flying guys allready mentioned.
Curse Catcher - Creature and counter spell. Excellent guy.
You seem to be lacking one drop creatures, I recommend the following: Bird's of paradise, Arbor Elf, Elvish Pioneer - Helps for a turn 2 Edric
Any one of the 1 mana flying guys allready mentioned.
Curse Catcher - Creature and counter spell. Excellent guy.
I had considered this approach as well, but you really don't care if you have a turn 2 Edric... You want an evasive 2-drop turn two so you can curve into Edric turn 3 and draw a card. Edric on his own doesn't do enough.
Also, very yes to Tarmogoyf. It's considered one of the best critters in Magic for a reason.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Elder Dragon Highlander WUBRG
Enchant World
When EDH comes into play, the game is a draw. Each player reveals his or her library to all other players, discusses how cool their deck is, and has a good laugh. Isn’t this a better version of Magic than playing “net decks”?
Last night's MVP was Seedborn Muse
He fits in so well with our agro/control strategy!
I use tons more 1cc I think they are necessary as this deck differs from syg because we don't need to hit 3 damage we just need as many creatures to get in as possible.
@prosistheplumber: sorry guys I am not gonna be able to devote the time necessary to post my list for a few days
I respectfully disagree with this notion that we can not win with out Edric. Garruk, Beastmaster Ascension, and Triumph of the Hordes will all do the trick. If you build the deck only around Edric then you are doing it wrong.
Also I do not think that Edric needs to or should be played T2. Play it T3 and protect it with creatures you can sac to counter and force of will type stuff. Play it T3 with a mana dork in play leaving 2 open for counters.
My ideal start.
land 1cc Flyer
land 1cc Flyer, Llanowar elves
Land 2cc evader, 2cc evader
Land Edric, Draw 4 - Manna drain on their turn
... Win
The only turns that you should be tapping out the entire game are 1-3, I agree that some more protection Edric for the turn you play him should make their way in, as his immediate removal is the biggest weakness of my the current decklist. Eladamri, lord of leaves should make his way back in, as well as Cursecatcher, I'm hesitant to play spellskite because it just sit's there (unless I draw skullclamp or Jitte), but I suppose as long as I imagine it as a seal of "counter target removal spell".
The 2+ mana fixing dudes (Yavimaya Elder and Sakura-Tribe Elder) didn't do anything in any of the games I played (well that's not exactly true, as I was able to discard Elder when my hand>7 at EoT), lotus cobra was ok because with fetchlands it let me play a dude and keep counter mana open, but again not amazing.
+ Eladamri lord of leaves
+ Cursecatcher
+ Spellskite
Dryad Arbor + Green Sun is clever, and might merit inclusion (as green sun also gets back a tucked Edric), but drawing Dryad Arbor as an early land is bad, as it basically stalls you an entire turn.
More later, but my last note, non evasive creatures = not as good as evasive creatures. Plus, if we remove most of the ground dudes, running Pognify and Beast Within are actually viable options!
Arbor Elf - Almost strictly better than llanowar elves as with 2x Forest - Island lands (and 7 fetchlands to find them), I can often 'tap' the elf for a blue. I ended up cutting the Okina though so this wouldn't wiff.
Scryb Ranger - Evasion and Flash are really key. Being able to leave counter mana open and then flash in a dude at EoT if they didn't do anything is really really nice. Also, the untap ability (while not particularly relevant) is great because it can generate a mana if I missed a land drop (at sorcery speed). Finally, resolving this in response to Clique is really brutal as pro blue can shut them down.
Spellstutter Sprite - Flying and Flash, also it can occasionally counter stuff which is really good.
Mana Drain - I decided I don't mind proxying and maybe I'll be able to trade for it for a couple FoW, you never know. I think I still might need a few more counters though.
I cut some dudes who weren't evasive.
My decklist wasn't updated, and I'm doing that now.
Last night's MVP was Seedborn Muse He fits in so well with our agro/control strategy!
@prosistheplumber: sorry guys I am not gonna be able to devote the time necessary to post my list for a few days
I just worry about me playing Seedborn Muse followed by an EoT Swords into a wrath effect (hallowed burial would be worst), Also, I am trying to avoid playing anything expensive (now I have nothing over 4 mana except for my prowled Nitorious Throg - which I'm sure you would agree is worth the price)
Albus:
I don't think building the deck very strongly around Edric is wrong, it's one approach (though by no means absolutely the best), it just means you have to protect it. Finally, I really hate playing vanilla creatures, even if they fly. I will however try cloud pirates out once or twice if I have time.
Bol:
I agree protecting Edric the turn he comes out is important, but I'm not actually that sad when I play him turn three (though I do have 7 0-1CC excellerator cards) as long as he's somewhat protected. My late game plam is fauna shaman and survival, as they can be used to fetch counterspells (mystic snake / venser + bounce dudes to bring them back), as I'm super aggro, I think that's all I need. I only have a few cards at 4CC and none above it (save prowl alternate costs) and it allows me to have fewer dead draws in a game, I never have found myself at 10 mana (6 for buybacked capsize + 4 for snake), so I don't think that merit's inclusion. I will test with the 1/1 flyers.
I'm looking for a new fun, more politcal general. Do you mostly just amass cards off the Edrics ability then secretly build up power then overrun people?
Edit: Just realized this is in 1v1. Has anyone built one for multiplayer??
How is Vedalken Shackles? Enough Islands? It seems like it would be slow. Same thing with Tumble Magnet - I think it's a solid card, but is it really doing work here?
You run Beast Within, why not PPongify? Would the two 3/3s mess up your tempo too much? I wasn't planning on running either of them because of the potential for tempo loss.
Play to win. If you don't, you're disrespecting everyone you're playing with by wasting their time. The Douchbag check is at the level of deck construction.
Albus:
I don't think building the deck very strongly around Edric is wrong, it's one approach (though by no means absolutely the best), it just means you have to protect it. Finally, I really hate playing vanilla creatures, even if they fly. I will however try cloud pirates out once or twice if I have time.
Bol:
I agree protecting Edric the turn he comes out is important, but I'm not actually that sad when I play him turn three (though I do have 7 0-1CC excellerator cards) as long as he's somewhat protected. My late game plam is fauna shaman and survival, as they can be used to fetch counterspells (mystic snake / venser + bounce dudes to bring them back), as I'm super aggro, I think that's all I need. I only have a few cards at 4CC and none above it (save prowl alternate costs) and it allows me to have fewer dead draws in a game, I never have found myself at 10 mana (6 for buybacked capsize + 4 for snake), so I don't think that merit's inclusion. I will test with the 1/1 flyers.
I just sleeved up a version of the deck that is heavily reliant on Edric, and I have to say I find myself agreeing with you. Flying Men is awesome when it's also a Shadowmage Infiltrator, but if it isn't, it's just bad.
Still, I think the focus has to be on Edric. Whenever I've been able to start drawing cards on turn 2, I haven't lost. The idea of waiting until turn 4 or 5 to start swinging with evasive beaters and drawing cards (looking at you, Serendib Efreet) is highly unappealing. I honestly think that if you want to play a higher curved U/G deck then Vig is almost strictly superior; Edric lends itself to aggro.
Yeah, I have to run jank like Foil, Commandeer, and Misdirection. But I'm willing to suffer the card disadvantage for that early game tempo, because if Edric starts winning it simply doesn't stop.
Will post a list later.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Philonus »
Counter spells stop everything. It's the condom Trojan dreams of making. But like condoms, if you don't have one, you still keep on playing and take the risk. Most of us wouldn't be here if this wasn't a fact.
(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)(U/G)
"Edric.Good_Stuff.deck"
To Start off with, this is my first primer so please forgive me if it's not particularly awesome. That said, I've been playing Edric since he was spoiled and this is easily my favorite deck.
Edric is AWESOME, one of the top EDH generals ever printed. He creates a MASSIVE amount of CA (EVERY creature you connect with EVERY turn draws you a card), he's blue, and very inexpensive to cast (and re-cast when necessary).
My friend referred to this deck as essentially a 100 card singleton legacy deck, and with only a few exceptions, every card in the deck saw some level of tournament play in some format.
The idea for this deck actually started off as a result of me reading and enjoying a Sygg Tempo deck primer. After Edric was spoiled I realized he could function in a similar fashion, only trading (the superior) black for better CA (Sygg can draw you 2 extra max per a round).
Why Play Edric?
If you like playing blue but still like turning creatures sideways, this may be the deck for you. I love playing blue, it is far and away my favorite color in magic as it's the color that you do the most thinking in and have to respond to situations differently. However, straight control (I used to play Erayo pre-banning) strategies can make for fairly boring (and slow) EDH games. With Edric, you get to play an army of different utility dudes and win by actually attacking, instead of doing something dumb (but awesome) like looping Mindslaver or beacon of tomorrows infinitely.
If you're huge into combos, this might not be the deck for you. While there is great synergy between numerous cards, it's on a much smaller scale (we're talking Aether Vial + Dryad Arbor level interactions)
Basic Game Plan
In general, I only follows only the main banned list, but seeing as most 1v1 stuff uses the French banned list, I have a separate list if you're forced to follow that.
Current Decklist:
The List I play:
1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
Creatures
CC = 1
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Cursecatcher
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Arbor Elf
1 Martyr of Frost
CC = 2
1 looter il-kor
1 Cloud of Faeries
1 Spiketail Hatching
1 Plaxmanta
1 Voidmage Prodogy
1 Eladamri, Lord of Leaves
1 Fauna Shaman
1 scryb ranger
1 Spellstutter Sprite
1 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
1 Waterfront Bouncer
1 Phyrexian Revolker
1 Snapcaster Mage
CC = 3
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 AEther Adept
1 Trygon Predator
1 Eternal Witness
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Spiketail Drakeling
CC = 4
1 Venser Shape Servant
1 Mystic Snake
1 AEther Vial
1 Winter Orb
1 Tangle Wire
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Jace TMS
1 Standstill
1 Equilibrium
Draw / Tutor (3)
1 Brainstorm
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
1 Gitaxian Probe
Equipment
1 Skullclamp
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Land
1 Tropical Island
1 Breeding Pool
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Flooded Grove
1 Polluted Delta
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswepth Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
7 Forest
10 Island
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Command Tower
1 Mishra's Factory
1 City of Brass
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Snap
1 Into the Roil
Counterspells (13)
1 Counterspell
1 Force Spike
1 Memory Lapse
1 Mana Leak
1 Hinder
1 Cryptic Command
1 Force of Will
1 Mana Drain
1 Voidslime
1 Remand
1 Daze
1 Arcane Denial
1 Delay
1 Forbid
Mana Excelleration
1 Exploration
1 Sol Ring
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mana Crypt
In Case You're French:
- Sol Ring (banned)
- Mana Drain (banned)
- Hinder (No longer effective)
- Mana Crypt (banned)
- Strip Mine (banned)
+ Deprive
+ Foil
+ Sword of Feast and Famine (Want to spend some more time testing with this)
+ Boreal Druid
+ Island
Deck Philosophy:
There are two types of Edric Decklists "Good_Stuff.deck" and "****ty_1CC_Creatures.deck"
I play the former, and the latter revolves around dudes like Scryb Sprites whom I'll discuss (mostly b/c I love me my flying green dudes).
Scryb Sprites is a bad card, it's hard to argue against this. With Edric in play, suddenly though the Sprites power level jumps enormously. HOWEVER, when Edric isn't on the board, suddenly your deck just sucks terribly. Trading Scryb Sprites for a more versitile creature like Vendillion Clique allows your deck to still be powerful when Edric is sitting on the board.
Additionally, the deck's curve only goes up by the smallest amount. I run barely a half-dozen 3+CC creatures, but my creature quality goes up enormously.
Card Choices:
Sorry, but I'm fairly lazy and haven't updated this in a while
Mana Excelleration (5):
Exploration - This card has been an amazing T1, and is never a bad draw later on, as you often find yourself drawing multiple land per turn throughout the game. Being able to pull ahead so far so fast is really nice. The only thing better would be Fastbond, but seeing as it's super banned, this is the next best thing!
Sol Ring, Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, Mana Crypt - These are some of the best cards for EDH. Each of them is basically a 0-1cc timewalk. Their disadvantages are almost completely moot as we're drawing so many cards throughout the game. I almost can't imagine a competitive deck without these in them.
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Land (36):
Tropical Island, Command Tower, Breeding Pool, Yavimaya Coast, Flooded Grove, City of Brass - Fix both colors and no real drawbacks.
Polluted Delta, Wooded Foothills, Windswepth Heath, Flooded Strand, Scalding Tarn, Verdant Catacombs, Misty Rainforest - Full suite of fetchlands, they grab tropical island then breeding pool.
Blinkmoth Nexus, Inkmoth Nexus, Mishra's Factory - Manlands are great, the fact that the nexuses fly is icing on the cake. Inkmoth Nexus + Jitte also is a 2 turn clock, and even if it's not really swinging for damage (if you can't possibly get to 10 poison). As a note, Mishra's Factory should be a mutavault (to trigger Notorous Throng), but I don't own one...
Strip Mine, Wasteland - I think playing EDH without these two in your deck is a mistake.
Dryad Arbor - It's in here as another Llanowar Elves (via GSZ or AEther Vial), though I've never been completely sold on the card though as it sets you back an entire turn if it's your only land drop for a turn.
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Counterspells (13)
The backbone of the decks game-plan. Choosing what to counter and when often determines whether or not you're going to win as the deck tries to play basically draw-go starting ~turn 4.
Mana Drain, Counterspell - 2cc card counter, can't go wrong here. If you can't use Mana Drain's mana the next, it's not a big deal, I usually just think of it as a really really expensive counterspell.
Memory Lapse, Remand, Delay - Tempo counterspells, as this is a tempo deck, these seem to fit just perfectly. You draw enough cards that just delaying (lol lol lol...) stuff from coming out is often enough to win.
Force of Will, Daze - free counters are good counterspells.
Mana Leak, Hinder, Cryptic Command, Voidslime, Arcane Denial - all solid counters and don't really need any explanation. Arcane Denial, while giving your opponent 2 cards, isn't really that bad for you as it's still stopping their threat for the turn.
Forbid - Awesome card, and against a lot of decks forbid (along with edric's draw) will be a hard lock all by itself
------------------------------------
Removal (2)
Snap - Boomerang, but it doesn't cost a mana, which is HUGE. You're tapping out almost every turn early in the game and being able to remove a blocker and still curve out is great.
Into the Roil - More bounce, this time with a CC, but is has a cantrip built in and you can never have too much draw. Once you settle into draw-go, this card is great and makes sure you're not wasting any mana.
------------------------------------
Equipment (3)
Skullclamp - None of the equipment really need explanation, least of all skullclamp. It's also worth pointing out that if Edric gets tucked into your library, skullclamp can pick up the slack in terms of CA.
Lightning Greaves - ...
Umezawa's Jitte - Best equipment ever, it does everything. Most importantly, it removes blockers (without costing you any additional mana).
------------------------------------
Utility Stuff (8)
AEther Vial - one of the strongest t1 drops you can make. With such a low curve, it basically doubles your mana every turn, and lets you leave counter mana open and still cast threats. Also, it combo's with dryad arbor as you can cast it right away!
Winter Orb / Tangle Wire - These are both really unfair cards, and have been the heart of many a prison decks throughout magic. Your opponents threats (usually) cost more mana than yours, thus by simply playing this, you're giving yourself a huge edge (and often timewalking yourself several times over the course of a game). Also, CC of counterspell < CC of spell it's countering, just adding to the awesomeness of the deck. Make sure you stack the Tangle Wire triggers so that you remove the counter first (and tap tangle wire itself - along with any PWers or artifacts / enchantments).
Garruk Wildspeaker - the perfect planeswalker. All his abilities are custom tailored for this deck. His + lets you play him AND leave counter mana open. His - throws out a dude. His ultimate ends the game. What more could you ask for.
Jace TMS - What more could you ask for... Well JTMS. Fine Jace > Garruk. Brainstorm got a nod in this deck, so brainstorm on a stick = good. Also snap (which also found it's way into the deck) on a stick = good, also his + is super powerful for this deck. Your opponent will have few actual threats to this deck, and you can just make sure he never finds any of them. Oh and his ultimate wins also.
Notorious Throng - Timewalk + like 5 flying dudes + draw 8, that's good, right? Oh and did I mention that our general... is a rogue, awesome.
Standstill - This card is stupid dumb good. And usually locks up a game once you have any kind of a board presence.
Equilibrium - A recent addition, equilibrium has been fantastic. It turns ALL your dudes into man-o-war's and is just straight stupid on dudes with flash.
------------------------------------
Draw / Tutor (3)
Brainstorm - Solid cantrip and massively (and incorrectly) underplayed in EDH. With all the shuffling effects in this deck, it's often is just as good as ancestral recall.
Survival of the Fittest - Need that eternal witness to start looping notorous throng? Need to find Edric after a condemn? Need to find a counter (mystic snake / snapcaster mage)? Need to... Survival finds them all and lets you always have the card you need. It turns your whole deck into one giant toolbox, and it doesn't get much better than that.
Sylvan Library - This is a green Spinny Top, but better, as it lets you draw multiple cards a turn for some life (which is effectively halved - as you have 2x as much life in EDH). With a full 7 fetchlands, survival, and several other tutor effects, you can shuffle your library very consistently, making this all the more powerful.
-------------------------------------
La Dudes
CC = 1
Sylvan Safekeeper - Invitational dudes are awesome, and this guy is no exception. He seems to be tailor made for Edric (and just about every other format :-)). He comes down the first turn AND lets you counter targeted removal spells without having to tap any mana to activate (letting you still cast other stuff). Probably the toughest turn for this deck is the turn you play Edric because it's the only turn in the game that your opponents removal spells will actually have a shot at killing Edric, losing a tapped land is WAY better than losing Edric, so this guy is champ.
Cursecatcher - Counterspell on a body is great, even better when you don't have to tap mana to activate it. The cool thing about these cards is that your opponent will almost never tap out to play a spell cursecatcher could counter, so it ends up making your opponent wait an entire turn to cast some spells, creating some nice tempo advantage.
Llanowar Elves, Fyndhorn Elves, Green Sun's Zenith (for Dryad Arbor), Arbor Elf - The 1cc mana dorks, Arbor Elf is the best as he can tap for a blue (because of tropical island and breeding pool), though they're all great at powering out a t2 Edric.
Martyr of Frost - A 1cc walking counterspell, this guy is awesome (and a new addition as I just discovered him). You should always have some cards in hand to reveal thanks to Edric, so this should stay basically a hard counter for the entire game. It's also surprisingly funny to counter their spell by revealing 3-4 counterspells in your hand (I had a friend concede after doing this)
CC = 2
looter il-kor - Merfolk Looter never looked so good. He's unblockable, lets you 'draw' an additional card each turn, AND prowlsnotorious throng. I am always happy to draw this guy.
Cloud of Faeries - Essentially a free evasive dude, combined with an AEther Vial at 2, lets you do so very fancy tricks.
Spiketail Hatching - I think I'm running almost every (4>cc) dude that has a built in counterspell, they're just awesome. Hatchling curves well with Edric, helps protect him the turn he comes out, and flies, an overall great guy.
Plaxmanta - just awesome, this is a dude that EtB and counters a removal spell, not sure how it can get much better (I guess if he flew, but that's like saying "Snapcaster Mage / dark confident would have been so much better if they had flying"). The EtB counterspell dudes are so much better because they leave a guy behind, I can't imagine a good Edric list not running him.
Voidmage Prodogy - Invitational dude numero dos, counterspell on a body = good. Occasionally you just can't draw the counterspells later in the game, and this guy can save your life when that happens. You can often get 2-3 activations out of him, as the deck is chalked full of wizards, but at worst he's a hard version of a lot of the guys in the deck.
Eladamri, Lord of Leaves - 2cc dude that gives Edric shroud, I'm not going elf themed so he doesn't do a whole lot else, but he's amazing at what he does do.
Fauna Shaman - Survival of the Fittest on a body. Most importantly, he finds Edric after he's been tucked away in your library. Also, in the late game, he makes sure you can counter opponents threats each turn (searching up Mystic Snake, Venser, Snapcaster, etc...)
scryb ranger - Lol, this card is stupid. I suppose here is as good a spot as any to discuss my feelings towards creatures with Flash. After the first few turns, you're not going to want to play spells on your turn any more because you instead want to leave mana open for counterspells (this btw is the reason why AEther Vial is so amazing in this deck). If your opponent doesn't play a threat though, you've just wasted all that potential mana. In comes flash creatures, now you aren't wasting any tempo. On to Scryb Ranger itself, it singlehandedly beats V. Clique, which is enough in and of itself is awesome. But it also has flying and a cool ability. (And being a faerie is a nice benefit for Spellstutter Sprite)
Spellstutter Sprite - A 2cc flying, flash, dude that counters stuff when he EtB!
Erayo, Soratami Ascendant - Likely the best "dude" in the deck (and maybe the best card). With a curve so low, it's super easy to flip him, and once that happens, you've won the game (I can't think of a game where I've flipped Erayo and not won). He's also really good at slowing down an opponents turn and can work kind of like pseudo arcane laboratory. Lets say you have 4 mana open on your opponents turn and they play that Serra Ascendant they just top decked and you remand it back to their hand. If they recast it, and you play ANYTHING else, Erayo flips and they (almost certainly) lose the game, meaning many opponents will just pass the turn, gaining you a huge tempo advantage. Plus, he's got evasion to boot.
Waterfront Bouncer - Repeatable (and dirt cheap) bounce effect on a stick, the "discard a card" clause is basically negligible as you draw SO MANY cards.
Phyrexian Revolker - This deck doesn't sport a lot of artifact / enchantment removal, so that's where revolker comes in, he neutralizes most useful artifacts / enchantments. Additionally, he neutralizes planeswalkers which is super important. You don't draw cards off of Edric when you attack an Elspeth, but you still have to deal with it, that's where Revolker can come in and shine.
Snapcaster Mage - He's essentially a slightly more versatile Mystic Snake, a very good investment.
Invisible Stalker - Maybe the worst dude of the bunch, but he's still unblockable, untargetable, and a rogue. He also holds a Jitte extremely well.
CC = 3
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner - Flies and makes ALL your dudes basically untargetable, very very strong.
AEther Adept, Man-o-war - They bounce a dude on EtB and leave behind a body to draw some cards. These are the very definition of tempo advantage creatures
Trygon Predator - This card is great, everyone who's anyone uses artifacts and this guy just eats them up. He's a tutor target for GSZ and a really important card to find at various points.
Eternal Witness - Like a not as surprising snapcaster, Eternal Witness usually grabs you counterspell and lets you replay it; unlike snapcaster, it can get other stuff that's hit the gy like winter orb or erayo.
Vendilion Clique - Flying, flash, a faerie AND a wizard (for voidmage), AND lets you get rid of your opponents most important card. It also lets you play another general tuck effect (we have oh so many bounce spells)
Spiketail Drakeling - Spiketail hatchling's big bro, same card, different name. I wonder if they'll ever do a spiketail drake / dragon.
CC = 4
Mystic Snake - Counterspell on a stick, oh so very nice.
Venser Shape Servant - Counterspell on a stick, oh so very nice. He's also a wizard (for voidmage) and can bounce troublesome permanents when he has too.
Recent Changes
Cuts:
Notorious Throng - Too often would sit in my hand when edric either wasn't in play or couldn't get through for damage (if they had a chump blocker for instance)
Invisible Stalker - With Throng cut, stalker seemed a little too weak, so he got the axe, if I end up bringing in SoFaF, I may bring stalker back because he wears the swords so well
Man-o-war - I've been not so happy with Man-o-war / Aether adept, as sad as it seems, 3CC is a lot to spend on a dude (usually after edric hits the board, I try to just sit back and counter stuff), and not having flash makes them not reactive enough (Venser is a champ though). Anyway, I'm keeping Aether adept for now and I'm going to see how it feels (occasionally I survival for these guys), Adept gets the nod despite the UUdue to the awesomeness with voidmage prodigy.
Additions:
Martyr of Frost - 1cc creature counterspell
Gitaxian Probe - Free information is really good
Stifle - against any multi-color deck (i.e. decks with 7+ fetchlands), this basically reads "U, Stone Rain", also there's tons of other stuff I would like to counter
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
opps, well that was fairly stupid of me... Oh well. I also made some significant changes. I lowered the curve significantly (only 2 spells in the deck with CC over 4) to make it more aggro.
Original build (mostly for my own reference):
1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
Creatures
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Trygon Predator
1 Mystic Snake
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Dosan the Falling Leaf
1 Eternal Witness
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Masked Admirers
1 Primeval Titan
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Trinket Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Jhessian Infiltrator
1 Murkfiend Liege
1 Patagia Viper
1 Elvish Visionary
1 Lighthouse Chronologist
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Genesis
1 Plaxmanta
1 Winged Coatl
1 Overbeing of Myth
1 Momir Vig
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Deranged Hermit
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Viridian Zelot
1 Voidmage Prodogy
1 Hinder
1 Counterspell
1 Force of Will
1 Cryptic Command
1 Forbid
1 Voidslime
1 Remand
Land
1 Tropical Island
1 Breeding Pool
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Flooded Grove
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Tolaria West
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1 Novijen, Heart of Progress
1 Maze of Ith
1 Polluted Delta
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswepth Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Treetop Village
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Dryad Arbor
6 Forest
7 Island
1 Mutavault
1 Duplicant
1 Spin into Myth
1 Beast Within
1 Pongify
1 Krosan Grip
1 Capsize
Equipment
1 Skullclamp
1 Lightning Greaves
1 whispersilk cloak
Draw / Turor
1 Future Sight
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Spinny Top
1 Survival of the Fittest
Artifact Excelleration
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
Planeswalkers
1 Garruk
1 Jace the Mind Sculptor
1 Karn, the Bonkers
Utility
1 Rite of Replication
1 Bribery
1 spitting Image
1 Sunder
1 Life from the Loam
1 Fable of wholf and owl
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
However, I feel like Aluren should stay. It's going to be a huge advantage for me (1/3 of my deck and half the non-land cards) compared to an opponent. In addition, it lets me play my cards while keeping counter mana open (and have a buffer against sorcery speed removal).
The decklist was at 103, so after removing those three cards, I'll be at an even 100!
As for other changes, I'm looking at these for additions:
1 Into the Roil
1 Mana Drain (though I would have to proxy as I don't own one / don't plan on buying or trading for one)
1 Arcane Denial
1 Standstill
1 Tolarian Entrancer
1 Notorious Throng
1 Saprazzan Heir
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Mindlock Orb (I have a distinct lack of tutoring in the deck)
If you have any ideas about other cards to add / remove, it would be greatly appreciated.
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
Alright, I'm convinced Aluren can get cut, though I still think it's an incredibly cool idea.
The two elves were included because the general is an elf. Turn 2 hivemaster seems like one of the best turn 2 you can hope for (well besides Turn 2 cloud of faeries -> hivemaster). Because when your general hits turn 3, you get an addition creature for free (= an additional draw every turn). Eladamri gives the general shroud, fits the curve well and can randomly help vs green decks, though I don't know for sure that's enough reason for his inclusion.
I'm fine cutting Chronologist as he's fairly slow to get going.
I would add Aether Figment and Escape Artist before I add the sentry. Archmage should definately make the cut. Unlike Sygg, I don't think Mask of Memory is as good here as in sygg (for example), because between skullclamp (via Trinket Mage) and Edric, I have plenty of draw. The Swords are great and may eventually go in.
For now though.
- Lighthouse Chronologist
- Aluren
+ Aether Figment
+ Glen Elendra Archmage
And thank you guys for your help.
oh and I'm also "fixing" the mana base to remove the come's into play tapped cards
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
Alright, I do suppose that draw is good, so lets do:
- Wirewood
- Eladamri
+ Mask of Memory
+ Arcane Denial
I ended up cutting hermit just because it was 5 mana, and you're right, it being tucked is bad, and makes hermit terrible.
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
Finally, I have fairly intensive mana and tempo requirements and my man-lands had to go.
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
Uhm, you must play in a super aggressive EDH meta, cause this type of short term accelleration and tempo cards have never done me any good in any EDH game.
Neither have the soft counters. Might as well play foil/thwart/dispel/envelop/turn aside, also very situational cards but at least they are hard counters.
Other ideas might be to add more token building engines:
Probably the best token generator in GU is deranged hermit (5 mana for 5 creatures), and I ended up cutting it for a cheaper spell. (the only 2 expensive cards, i.e. with a casting cost 4> , are bribery and Notorious Throng. The former wins games randomly when you would otherwise lose, and the latter, which you only play for it's prowl cost, timewalks and makes like 5 dudes), in a slower build however many of those cards would be extremely useful. This deck lives off of tempo (as that's all you need for the first few turns before you've locked down the deck) so you don't need hard counters.
No, the deck would fizzle out horribly. You would want a higher curve with only hard counters (to deal with mass removal). Cards like Consecrated Sphinx and Mind's eye are significantly better, as well as stuff like spitting image (an amazing card btw). Something closer to my original list (third post down in a spoiler tag, but with slight modifications.
I do want more 1 drops, though I don't know if vanilla flyers are the way to go (though coastal pirates >>>>>> the rest of the field due to it's awesomeness).
I also have a couple of lists of cards that I've been considering:
Sylvan Safekeeper - 1 mana dude, and essentially has built in turn aside for free (the loss of a land is negligable with all the draw) and can stop all spot removal against your dudes.
Chain of Vapor - 1 mana bounce and, as my dudes are faster in general than an opponent, if we restart the game, I will win.
Declaration of Naught - There's a thread dedicated to this which brought it to my attention, less and less of a fan as time goes on, but it still completely hoses decks like Zur and Arcum if it resolves (i.e. 4cc+ generals that aren't thrun).
spiketail hatchling - would be an auto include, except it just makes your opponent accidently play around your daze / force spike and you end up having to go 1 for 2. Though it's still amazing.
Scryb Ranger - overlaps with your list
Mana Drain - I don't own one and don't plan on ever buying one, but definitely an auto include in the ideal version of the deck (though as I don't mind proxying...)
Tolarian Entrancer / Saprazzan Heir - cool attacker in conjunction with edric
Vedalken Shackles - reusable control magic effect (large creatures are largely irreverent as they will never be cast), great against smaller generals like Erayo and Sygg as well as removing the blocker from an opponent, with the increase back to 'basic' lands (only 5 lands without the island or forest type) seems just too good to pass up.
Helm of Possession - same idea as shackles but lets you grab anything.
Spellstrutter Sprite - overlaps with your list
Standstill - overlaps with your list
Into the Roil - overlaps with your list
The real question at this point is, what gets the ax? I'm at 101 right now, so one card has to go just to bring it back down to 100. But then what else should be cut to make room for seemingly obvious includes like mana drain / safekeeper / hatching / spellstrutter sprite, not to mention the other cards I'd like to see like shackles, elvish spirit guide, and into the roil.
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
Sakashima the Impostor on Edric for overkill and LOLZ! I think this works right?
Intruder Alarm + Imperious Perfect + any manna dork is a sick combo!
Azusa, Lost but Seeking to drop the additional lands we draw I have a slightly different build I hope to get around to perfecting and posting
Ok so the way I figure it, the weakest cards left in the deck are:
*Viridian Zealot - G mana intensive and EtB >> sac effects [though the closest replacements for a similar effect is Wickerbough Elder and maybe Viridian Shaman and friends (which are worse because can be a dead draw when you're the only one with an artifact in play)]
*Vengevine - Vanilla creature, though haste and recursion are both relevant
*Gaea's Skyfolk - one of many 2 CC fliers, all the other ones do stuff though (an extra power/toughness is largely irrelevant)
*Sakura-Tribe Elder - Fixes mana, but not much else, plus to do it, I have to sac the creature which essentially loses you a card draw (same as Zealot).
*Phyrexian Metamorph - only really good with cool creatures on the board, at which point we're ahead, though by no means a bad card here.
*Bribery - 5CC, but otherwise amazing
I already did (1 extra cut to bring down to 100 (compared to 101):
- Gaea's Skyfolk
- Vengevine
- Viridian Zealot
- Phyrexian Metamorph (though not sure I should)
+ Spiketail Hatchling
+ Sylvan Safekeeper
+ Into the Roil
I'm playing some more games this evening and I'll keep track of what was best and worst (and what I would rather have in any given situation.
Albus Severus:
You should post your decklist, would be good to see the approach others are taking. I'll take a look at the suggestions you made also.
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
There are a few counters worth a try
Muddle the Mixture (can also tutor for winter orb),
Familiar's Ruse (Edric deck always has cheap creature on board)
Trickbind(I think it is better than stifle)
Unified Will(not sure about that one)
Miscalculation(good early game counter, late game cycling)
Negate
Rune Snag(like force spike, depends how fast is your deck)
Deprive
Spell Pierce
For creatures, I think it s better to avoid any creatures cost higher than 3. (Mystic Snake and Venser Shape Servant may be the only exception.)
I think Tarmogoyf should be included in the deck. It is an aggro deck. It should deal damage fast in the early game. and Edric just refills your gas right the way.
Rancor is better than most equipments in an aggro deck. We should not forget it.
Opposition may be the only card to help Edric win in the late game.
Pongify is at least a low-cost creature remove for blue.
Bird's of paradise, Arbor Elf, Elvish Pioneer - Helps for a turn 2 Edric
Any one of the 1 mana flying guys allready mentioned.
Curse Catcher - Creature and counter spell. Excellent guy.
I had considered this approach as well, but you really don't care if you have a turn 2 Edric... You want an evasive 2-drop turn two so you can curve into Edric turn 3 and draw a card. Edric on his own doesn't do enough.
Also, very yes to Tarmogoyf. It's considered one of the best critters in Magic for a reason.
WUBRG
Enchant World
When EDH comes into play, the game is a draw. Each player reveals his or her library to all other players, discusses how cool their deck is, and has a good laugh.
Isn’t this a better version of Magic than playing “net decks”?
He fits in so well with our agro/control strategy!
I use tons more 1cc I think they are necessary as this deck differs from syg because we don't need to hit 3 damage we just need as many creatures to get in as possible.
@prosistheplumber: sorry guys I am not gonna be able to devote the time necessary to post my list for a few days
Cloud sprite, Cloud Pirates, Curse catcher, Deepwood wolverine, Sage of Epityr, Elvish Pioneer, Elvish Scout, Flying Men, Folk of An-Havva, Fyndhorn Elves, Joven's Ferrets, Scute mob, Sakura-Tribe Scout, Scryb Sprites
This deck seems for lack of a better turn Blue. How about we add some Green cards:
Earth craft, fecundity, natural order
Also I do not think that Edric needs to or should be played T2. Play it T3 and protect it with creatures you can sac to counter and force of will type stuff. Play it T3 with a mana dork in play leaving 2 open for counters.
My ideal start.
land 1cc Flyer
land 1cc Flyer, Llanowar elves
Land 2cc evader, 2cc evader
Land Edric, Draw 4 - Manna drain on their turn
... Win
The 2+ mana fixing dudes (Yavimaya Elder and Sakura-Tribe Elder) didn't do anything in any of the games I played (well that's not exactly true, as I was able to discard Elder when my hand>7 at EoT), lotus cobra was ok because with fetchlands it let me play a dude and keep counter mana open, but again not amazing.
+ Eladamri lord of leaves
+ Cursecatcher
+ Spellskite
- Yavimaya Elder
- Sakura-Tribe Elder
- Vedalken Heretic
Dryad Arbor + Green Sun is clever, and might merit inclusion (as green sun also gets back a tucked Edric), but drawing Dryad Arbor as an early land is bad, as it basically stalls you an entire turn.
More later, but my last note, non evasive creatures = not as good as evasive creatures. Plus, if we remove most of the ground dudes, running Pognify and Beast Within are actually viable options!
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
Arbor Elf - Almost strictly better than llanowar elves as with 2x Forest - Island lands (and 7 fetchlands to find them), I can often 'tap' the elf for a blue. I ended up cutting the Okina though so this wouldn't wiff.
Scryb Ranger - Evasion and Flash are really key. Being able to leave counter mana open and then flash in a dude at EoT if they didn't do anything is really really nice. Also, the untap ability (while not particularly relevant) is great because it can generate a mana if I missed a land drop (at sorcery speed). Finally, resolving this in response to Clique is really brutal as pro blue can shut them down.
Spellstutter Sprite - Flying and Flash, also it can occasionally counter stuff which is really good.
Mana Drain - I decided I don't mind proxying and maybe I'll be able to trade for it for a couple FoW, you never know. I think I still might need a few more counters though.
I cut some dudes who weren't evasive.
My decklist wasn't updated, and I'm doing that now.
Now:
I just worry about me playing Seedborn Muse followed by an EoT Swords into a wrath effect (hallowed burial would be worst), Also, I am trying to avoid playing anything expensive (now I have nothing over 4 mana except for my prowled Nitorious Throg - which I'm sure you would agree is worth the price)
Albus:
I don't think building the deck very strongly around Edric is wrong, it's one approach (though by no means absolutely the best), it just means you have to protect it. Finally, I really hate playing vanilla creatures, even if they fly. I will however try cloud pirates out once or twice if I have time.
Bol:
I agree protecting Edric the turn he comes out is important, but I'm not actually that sad when I play him turn three (though I do have 7 0-1CC excellerator cards) as long as he's somewhat protected. My late game plam is fauna shaman and survival, as they can be used to fetch counterspells (mystic snake / venser + bounce dudes to bring them back), as I'm super aggro, I think that's all I need. I only have a few cards at 4CC and none above it (save prowl alternate costs) and it allows me to have fewer dead draws in a game, I never have found myself at 10 mana (6 for buybacked capsize + 4 for snake), so I don't think that merit's inclusion. I will test with the 1/1 flyers.
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
although my version will be a bit slower since I am on a budget no mana drain or force of will or the original duals
I'm looking for a new fun, more politcal general. Do you mostly just amass cards off the Edrics ability then secretly build up power then overrun people?
Edit: Just realized this is in 1v1. Has anyone built one for multiplayer??
Pauper - 450
EDH
B Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker
Why play Aether Spellbomb over Seal of Removal, Unsummon, or Vapor Snag?
How is Vedalken Shackles? Enough Islands? It seems like it would be slow. Same thing with Tumble Magnet - I think it's a solid card, but is it really doing work here?
You run Beast Within, why not PPongify? Would the two 3/3s mess up your tempo too much? I wasn't planning on running either of them because of the potential for tempo loss.
Omnath: he's on PCP
RW Redirection
My 360 Pauper Cube
I just sleeved up a version of the deck that is heavily reliant on Edric, and I have to say I find myself agreeing with you. Flying Men is awesome when it's also a Shadowmage Infiltrator, but if it isn't, it's just bad.
Still, I think the focus has to be on Edric. Whenever I've been able to start drawing cards on turn 2, I haven't lost. The idea of waiting until turn 4 or 5 to start swinging with evasive beaters and drawing cards (looking at you, Serendib Efreet) is highly unappealing. I honestly think that if you want to play a higher curved U/G deck then Vig is almost strictly superior; Edric lends itself to aggro.
Yeah, I have to run jank like Foil, Commandeer, and Misdirection. But I'm willing to suffer the card disadvantage for that early game tempo, because if Edric starts winning it simply doesn't stop.
Will post a list later.
My Trade Thread!