So while watching some SCG legacy i noticed a lot of Helm of obedience+rest in peace combo decks. One even won last weekends open.
It seems recent for legacy, but the leyline of the void+helm of obedience combo has been an edh combo for years now. Top seems to get used a lot more in legacy as well.
Has anyone else noticed some edh synergies popping up in other formats, or am I just nuts?
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The EDH stax primer When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
You're seeing things. When building a deck for Legacy I don't ever take the time to think "hmm, if this was EDH I'd play this" because it simply doesn't work.
The reason you're seeing an increase in tops and helms is that recent sets have allowed them to come into a larger viewpoint. Countertop's been dead for awhile, until Miracles brought it back.
Helm is viable as a one or two of now that rest in peace is around, which hates on stuff like RUG and dredge and co. Might as well throw in a way to instantly win.
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You're seeing things. When building a deck for Legacy I don't ever take the time to think "hmm, if this was EDH I'd play this" because it simply doesn't work.
The reason you're seeing an increase in tops and helms is that recent sets have allowed them to come into a larger viewpoint. Countertop's been dead for awhile, until Miracles brought it back.
Helm is viable as a one or two of now that rest in peace is around, which hates on stuff like RUG and dredge and co. Might as well throw in a way to instantly win.
Good. For a minute I thought I'd be good at legacy. Obviously, I was wrong.
And I thought abrupt decay took care of counterbalance top? It went away for a minute but now it's back.
Also, watching people rifle shuffle decks, then chapin spaz their hand when playing with beta duals makes me want to punch them.
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The EDH stax primer When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
Decay didn't take care of countertop unless you're a combo player. Misdirection is a thing.
And don't worry, shuffling expensive cards badly is what we have EDH for.
I cringe when players rift shuffle their thousand dollar type 1 and type 1.5 decks. I played against a guy who was spazzing shuffling his hand of Mox Jet, 2x Beta Swamps, Beta Dark Ritual, Hymm, Foil Wasteland, and Juzam Djinn.
I finally find the rules of people who spaz their cards. The more it cost, the more you badly shuffling (Kibler style too)
I think that all the formats bleed into one another somewhat, in Vintage you see Rest in Peace decks and I am not sure if this is a bleed from Legacy or vice versa.
The classic example I see is the diffusion of cards that are recognized as good in standard and become more playable in older formats such as Stoneforge Mystic and Bloodbraid Elf.
We have near 0 influence on Legacy. In fact from the streams I watch most of the Legacy players still regard EDH as a joke (that's partially because they don't understand that EDH is basically 100 card vintage-legacy hybrid).
I don't believe we could influence the format at all though. Different formats are different yo.
So here's the history of Countertop over the past few years:
It was huge when Mental Misstep was printed, because Misstep slowed games down and Countertop is great at the slow game.
When Innistrad hit, Misstep got banned and Snapcaster came along, bringing Stoneblade to prominence as the best UW control deck.
Dark Ascension solidified this, as Lingering Souls made Esper Stoneblade the control deck to beat.
Then Avacyn came along, and Top's synergy with Miracles brought back a resurgence of Top-based UW control, often with Counterbalance in the sideboard for matchups where it is good.
Miracles overtook Stoneblade temporarily, but Return to Ravnica saw the printing of Abrupt Decay, which stomps Counterbalance, as well as promoting decks like Jund and BUG which do fairly well against Miracles. Stoneblade's been climbing since then, while Miracles has been declining.
However, RtR also saw Rest in Peace, which has spawned a new deck. Rest in Peace + Energy Field provides a defensive fortification, while Helm of Obedience + RIP works as a wincon. Some Miracles decks have taken to playing a few of these cards, while other decks have gone more directly into the combo, running full sets of RIP/Field + Enlightened Tutor and a few Helms. Countertop also works well in this kind of deck, as RIP-Field is great against aggro while Countertop is great against combo. Yes, it has tons of pieces that lose to Abrupt Decay, but with that many juicy targets, it's very difficult for them to hit ENOUGH AD's to get through everything you've got.
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I was checking prices about the time of the spoiling of RtR, and Helm of Obedience and Energy Field both saw considerable bumps after Rest in Peace was spoiled. Doesn't always happen, but in this case people already had an eye on Leyline of the Void. None of these prices are influenced by EDH, and in fact, I haven't really seen these cards or this combo much at all in EDH.
Top being $5 at uncommon isn't any one format's fault, but EDH and other casual play still ranks quite low on the list of price drivers generally. Not enough to put an uncommon at $5. Counter-Top has been around for a while, and Miracles is only a new name for an old thing. To play the deck, you'll notice that you're recasting multiples of Counterbalance often, and also having to let things go through uncountered a lot of the time. It's hard to make the claim that Abrupt Decay changes that at all. Not to mention that I've never seen Counter-Top in EDH, for good reasons.
One other reason is Rest in Piece cost 2 mana not 4 like Leyline of the Void. Decks you wanted Leyline of the Void against you had to open with it because you're not hitting four mana.
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Playing: Modern: BWEldrazi and TaxesBW Legacy: WEldraziW
It seems recent for legacy, but the leyline of the void+helm of obedience combo has been an edh combo for years now. Top seems to get used a lot more in legacy as well.
Has anyone else noticed some edh synergies popping up in other formats, or am I just nuts?
The EDH stax primer
When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
The reason you're seeing an increase in tops and helms is that recent sets have allowed them to come into a larger viewpoint. Countertop's been dead for awhile, until Miracles brought it back.
Helm is viable as a one or two of now that rest in peace is around, which hates on stuff like RUG and dredge and co. Might as well throw in a way to instantly win.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Good. For a minute I thought I'd be good at legacy. Obviously, I was wrong.
And I thought abrupt decay took care of counterbalance top? It went away for a minute but now it's back.
Also, watching people rifle shuffle decks, then chapin spaz their hand when playing with beta duals makes me want to punch them.
The EDH stax primer
When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
Decay didn't take care of countertop unless you're a combo player. Misdirection is a thing.
And don't worry, shuffling expensive cards badly is what we have EDH for.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I cringe when players rift shuffle their thousand dollar type 1 and type 1.5 decks. I played against a guy who was spazzing shuffling his hand of Mox Jet, 2x Beta Swamps, Beta Dark Ritual, Hymm, Foil Wasteland, and Juzam Djinn.
I finally find the rules of people who spaz their cards.
The more it cost, the more you badly shuffling (Kibler style too)
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
URThe Joy of Painting with Nin, the Pain Artist!UR
Ha, I had to sig this for truthery :p.
stuff
The classic example I see is the diffusion of cards that are recognized as good in standard and become more playable in older formats such as Stoneforge Mystic and Bloodbraid Elf.
I thought Top was always popular in Legacy...
UAzami, Locus of All KnowledgeU
BMarrow-Gnawer, Crime Lord of ComboB
WBRTariel, Hellraiser StaxWBR
Annul is really good in EDH
I don't believe we could influence the format at all though. Different formats are different yo.
It was huge when Mental Misstep was printed, because Misstep slowed games down and Countertop is great at the slow game.
When Innistrad hit, Misstep got banned and Snapcaster came along, bringing Stoneblade to prominence as the best UW control deck.
Dark Ascension solidified this, as Lingering Souls made Esper Stoneblade the control deck to beat.
Then Avacyn came along, and Top's synergy with Miracles brought back a resurgence of Top-based UW control, often with Counterbalance in the sideboard for matchups where it is good.
Miracles overtook Stoneblade temporarily, but Return to Ravnica saw the printing of Abrupt Decay, which stomps Counterbalance, as well as promoting decks like Jund and BUG which do fairly well against Miracles. Stoneblade's been climbing since then, while Miracles has been declining.
However, RtR also saw Rest in Peace, which has spawned a new deck. Rest in Peace + Energy Field provides a defensive fortification, while Helm of Obedience + RIP works as a wincon. Some Miracles decks have taken to playing a few of these cards, while other decks have gone more directly into the combo, running full sets of RIP/Field + Enlightened Tutor and a few Helms. Countertop also works well in this kind of deck, as RIP-Field is great against aggro while Countertop is great against combo. Yes, it has tons of pieces that lose to Abrupt Decay, but with that many juicy targets, it's very difficult for them to hit ENOUGH AD's to get through everything you've got.
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Top being $5 at uncommon isn't any one format's fault, but EDH and other casual play still ranks quite low on the list of price drivers generally. Not enough to put an uncommon at $5. Counter-Top has been around for a while, and Miracles is only a new name for an old thing. To play the deck, you'll notice that you're recasting multiples of Counterbalance often, and also having to let things go through uncountered a lot of the time. It's hard to make the claim that Abrupt Decay changes that at all. Not to mention that I've never seen Counter-Top in EDH, for good reasons.
Playing:
Modern:
BWEldrazi and TaxesBW
Legacy:
WEldraziW