Outside of a combo-centric environment, this card reintroduced something almost as powerful, but not the same thing. I've already talked about this in-depth in my previous post, so instead of labeling a wall of text and ignoring everything I said, why don't you read it?
Anyone who wants to break this format in half will do it regardless of this card's printing, unless you mean in groups where this card will be played and infinite combos are not.
Among other things, this card pretty much zapped the fun out of EDH for me. You're going to hear a lot more complaints about this card in the future, once people start playing with it more. Trust me. The card is bad for the format.
Btw, mind over matter and dream halls are pretty comparble to it. You can't knock it until youve abused the hell out of these. All of these enchnatments require good deckbuilding and basically mostly bulit around it.
I'd love to see how many people would complain if this was green and slightly different. I feel most of the "OMG ITS KILLING THE GAME! PANIC!" stuff is because the card is blue and hating blue is the easy thing to do.
I'd love to see how many people would complain if this was green and slightly different. I feel most of the "OMG ITS KILLING THE GAME! PANIC!" stuff is because the card is blue and hating blue is the easy thing to do.
Maybe that's in m14, a green enchantment card that lets you play creatures for free?
I'd love to see how many people would complain if this was green and slightly different. I feel most of the "OMG ITS KILLING THE GAME! PANIC!" stuff is because the card is blue and hating blue is the easy thing to do.
No one complains about Primal Surge. Why? It's Green. The same color that a great majority of players who whine about counters/LD/spot removal(I'm not kidding) play. So it's no wonder that a 10 mana blue potentially game ending enchantment will have a thread devoted to how it's killing the game.
People complain about spot-removal? Oooh God >.<
Counters and LD I can slightly understand. It's a great way of dealing with degenerate stuff, but most of the time it's used to grief people.
But spot removal? Seriously?
Btw, mind over matter and dream halls are pretty comparble to it. You can't knock it until youve abused the hell out of these. All of these enchnatments require good deckbuilding and basically mostly bulit around it.
This. MoM doesn't get there if you don't have a slew of tutor and draw spells to back it up. Like I said before, I think Omniscience needs to interact with the format a bit before we can come to anything conclusive.
This. MoM doesn't get there if you don't have a slew of tutor and draw spells to back it up. Like I said before, I think Omniscience needs to interact with the format a bit before we can come to anything conclusive.
You also need draws spells or tutors to take advantage of Omniscience unless you already have game winner in your hand. Then again MoM is same thing. In fact, you only really need a Jace Archivist to get to your wincon most of the time.
So I finally managed to make a cut in my list to fit this baby in, cannot wait until the end of the week to give it a real test run. Gonna need a few more card to get the full benefit though, something like Time Spiral would be great. Ever since I lost Griselbrand, my deck just hasn't had quite the oomph it used to, needs more draw I suppose.
Well I built a Horde of Notions deck that abuses it as a 2nd combo. 3 different combos to prevent any loss of 1 combo. Also, I have 4 pieces that are used to try to protect Omniscience and Conflux is usually the 1st thing I tutor for after it resolves.
Had a few games finally using this. It was enough to enable shenanigans every single time. Yes an infinite mana combo will allow you the same effect, however the times those either were disrupted or unavailable, this performed beautifully.
Hmm... I really like Omniscience. As mentioned before, it's very similar to Dream Halls, but I think Omniscience is better for 2 reasons. First, you don't have to discard. It doesn't seem like a lot to discard one card to cast a spell, but when the point of your deck it to draw or handcycle a certain number of cards consistently (and many such cards let you draw based on hand size), the discard hurts. Second, unless you've got Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir out, your opponents can abuse Dream Halls as well. This means that they can just as easily discard to cast a counter to stop your combo or whatever else you're doing.
Yes, Dream Halls is half the CMC of Omniscience, but Omniscience provides an awesome-level that Dream Halls can't even touch.
Well I built a Horde of Notions deck that abuses it as a 2nd combo. 3 different combos to prevent any loss of 1 combo. Also, I have 4 pieces that are used to try to protect Omniscience and Conflux is usually the 1st thing I tutor for after it resolves.
I have been trying to get into EDH and I saw your Horde of notions deck earlier this week and built it. Every single game that I played Omniscence was insane. in 1 game i was able to cast time stretch 5 times in the same turn (e. wit, karmic guide, animate dead, praetor's counsel, all while sacrificing those guys to the altar) and while also playing decree of pain to clear everyones board and replay all of my creatures with haste. I love this card.
To me, this card seems like a trap if you don't plan to use it in a certain way. If you are planning to just combo off as though you had infinite mana, feel free. What makes this card powerful IMO is that if it resolves you can just proceed to perform any collection of interactions to an order of magnitude likely to win you the game.
I certainly agree that this card is comparable to Tooth and Nail and Genesis Wave in that there ought to be some sort of response from the other players to ensure the Omniscient player doesn't just win on the spot, or acquienssence that Omniscience is going to win its controller the game or at the very least make them exceedingly difficult to deal with.
You can ramp into it as with its green cousins, or cheat it in with Rector or Replenish, and there will always be a story where Omniscience gets K-Gripped off the bat, or stolen, or just plain naturalized before it gets out of hand, as well as a story where it lets you do all manner of nonsense.
As others have said, I've seen Genesis Waves and Tooth and Nails resolve and then their controllers get wrecked. I feel this card allows for the same level of power and win potential with a suitible amount of fragility.
Omniscience resolves, cast spells, win. It's that simple. That's playing it the fair way. I cast this, dropped an augur of bolas, drew into fact or fiction, cast fact or fiction into time reversal, and proceeded to just play cards, and recur time walks. This card literally just wins the game and turns every counterspell in your hand into a force of will. This breaks walk of the aeons in half, who needs lands?
If you want to get really techy, play a rector, then wrath the board, then time walk a few times draw cards, and Armageddon.
I used to run time stretch, now there's not point because omniscience does so so much more then time stretch ever could. So what if you blow it up, grats, there's the 98 other cards that never needed omniscience to work. This thing literally combos with non land cards at no cost. Dream halls has a cost, mind over matter is more comparable but is much more narrow. The only reason I see this card not warping the format is because people are dismissing it because of its CMC.
I agree. We should all only play g/x decks because they are the most objectively fun and anyone who disagrees does not know the truth about EDH. Everyone should just play their decks because interaction beyond high fiving about how many land are in play is unfun and equivalent to casting Stasis while kicking puppies. I for one will never play with anyone who casts tutors, removal spells, blue cards, things I arbitrarily decide I don't like but will probably cast myself later.
If you can win off whats in your hand that turn with Omniscience, then you can probably just as easily win with Dream Halls with whats in your hand a few turns earlier.
*CN* built a wonderful EDH Halls deck.. just do a search for Tomorrow, Azumi's Familiar and you'll find it. I started with that as a base for an Omnis.. deck.. adding W for the rector and tutors.
Omniscience resolves, cast spells, win. It's that simple. That's playing it the fair way. I cast this, dropped an augur of bolas, drew into fact or fiction, cast fact or fiction into time reversal, and proceeded to just play cards, and recur time walks. This card literally just wins the game and turns every counterspell in your hand into a force of will. This breaks walk of the aeons in half, who needs lands?
It doesn't literally win the game.
Barren Glory
Battle of Wits
Coalition Victory
ETC
They win the game literally, this one doesn't.
If you want to get really techy, play a rector, then wrath the board, then time walk a few times draw cards, and Armageddon.
I used to run time stretch, now there's not point because omniscience does so so much more then time stretch ever could. So what if you blow it up, grats, there's the 98 other cards that never needed omniscience to work. This thing literally combos with non land cards at no cost. Dream halls has a cost, mind over matter is more comparable but is much more narrow. The only reason I see this card not warping the format is because people are dismissing it because of its CMC.
People are 'dismissing' it because there are far more powerful cards that "literally" win the game too.
We wouldn't want to have decks with big spells that can win the game that aren't green? Oh no, the horror!
It doesn't literally win the game.
Barren Glory
Battle of Wits
Coalition Victory
ETC
They win the game literally, this one doesn't.
People are 'dismissing' it because there are far more powerful cards that "literally" win the game too.
We wouldn't want to have decks with big spells that can win the game that aren't green? Oh no, the horror!
I am gonna use High Tide or Gauntlet of Power in a mono-blue deck
It's not the 'best possible way' if it requires 2 unique cards in a 99-cardpool.
I highly suggest you read the card and then look at all the good EDH staple spells. You'll notice that omniscience basically takes every good EDH spell and makes them cost 0 mana. Out of all the big spells in EDH, this is now the most powerful out of all of them. There is no reason to dismiss it because nothing compares to it's power level.
Dream halls is no wear near this card's power level. It's miles behind now. Dream halls gives your opponents the ability to discard cards to cast spells for free as well as you. That's crap compared to omniscience.
Coalition victory is banned and battle of wits does not work in EDH, try it, will never work. Besides you need to wait a whole turn for battle of wits to work if it could work. Those are not comparable.
Barren glory needs to be built around.
Omniscience only requires that you have cards that do stuff and it practically breaks draw spells. This card wont lead to fun times EDH, the only thing it will lead to is sour endings, that's it, there's no in betweens or interactivity with this card.
I agree. We should all only play g/x decks because they are the most objectively fun and anyone who disagrees does not know the truth about EDH. Everyone should just play their decks because interaction beyond high fiving about how many land are in play is unfun and equivalent to casting Stasis while kicking puppies. I for one will never play with anyone who casts tutors, removal spells, blue cards, things I arbitrarily decide I don't like but will probably cast myself later.
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Every single instant win combo hurts the game. 1 more is simply more damage.
Anyone who wants to break this format in half will do it regardless of this card's printing, unless you mean in groups where this card will be played and infinite combos are not.
In that case, you may as well say that Explosive Vegetation is broken in groups where Primeval Titan is banned, which is ridiculous.
Maybe that's in m14, a green enchantment card that lets you play creatures for free?
I would be super-stoked for that card. I would LOOK FORWARD to abusing it with Soul of the Harvest, Primordial Sage, and Garruk's Packleader.
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Hmmmm.
You may have a point.
Omni is blue, and therefore gets to cast counterspells for free. That would be the big difference.
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Primal Surge?
Green and only slightly different.
Let's hope you don't run any non-permanents in your deck.
No one complains about Primal Surge. Why? It's Green. The same color that a great majority of players who whine about counters/LD/spot removal(I'm not kidding) play. So it's no wonder that a 10 mana blue potentially game ending enchantment will have a thread devoted to how it's killing the game.
Counters and LD I can slightly understand. It's a great way of dealing with degenerate stuff, but most of the time it's used to grief people.
But spot removal? Seriously?
Oh no, you can only play 20 cards for free the horror!
That's still easier to set-up than Omniscience.
Omniscience is actually easier to set up, and not as RNG-based.
This. MoM doesn't get there if you don't have a slew of tutor and draw spells to back it up. Like I said before, I think Omniscience needs to interact with the format a bit before we can come to anything conclusive.
Also, green mages hate spot removal? I guess Beast Within, Chain of Acid and Desert Twister don't count...
UAzami, Locus of All KnowledgeU
BMarrow-Gnawer, Crime Lord of ComboB
WBRTariel, Hellraiser StaxWBR
Annul is really good in EDH
You also need draws spells or tutors to take advantage of Omniscience unless you already have game winner in your hand. Then again MoM is same thing. In fact, you only really need a Jace Archivist to get to your wincon most of the time.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Yes, Dream Halls is half the CMC of Omniscience, but Omniscience provides an awesome-level that Dream Halls can't even touch.
Thank you to Rivenor for this awesome banner!
Palladia-Mors of {The Spirit of EDH}
EDH
WLinvala, Queen of the AngelsW
WUThe Prison of the Grand ArbiterUW [Primer]
URNiv-Mizzet, Handcycling ComboRU
UTalrand, Drake-Slinging to VictoryU
WUGDerevi, Tactical ShufflingGUW
BCao Cao, Discard Stax of Absolute MiseryB
I have been trying to get into EDH and I saw your Horde of notions deck earlier this week and built it. Every single game that I played Omniscence was insane. in 1 game i was able to cast time stretch 5 times in the same turn (e. wit, karmic guide, animate dead, praetor's counsel, all while sacrificing those guys to the altar) and while also playing decree of pain to clear everyones board and replay all of my creatures with haste. I love this card.
GWU Bant Control GWU
Legacy:
UWR MiracleBlade UWR
FNM Brews:
GW Wild Beastmaster GW
I certainly agree that this card is comparable to Tooth and Nail and Genesis Wave in that there ought to be some sort of response from the other players to ensure the Omniscient player doesn't just win on the spot, or acquienssence that Omniscience is going to win its controller the game or at the very least make them exceedingly difficult to deal with.
You can ramp into it as with its green cousins, or cheat it in with Rector or Replenish, and there will always be a story where Omniscience gets K-Gripped off the bat, or stolen, or just plain naturalized before it gets out of hand, as well as a story where it lets you do all manner of nonsense.
As others have said, I've seen Genesis Waves and Tooth and Nails resolve and then their controllers get wrecked. I feel this card allows for the same level of power and win potential with a suitible amount of fragility.
:symg::symb: Savra, Queen of the Golgari:symb::symg:
:symr::symw::symu:Ruhan of the Fomori :symr::symw::symu:
If you want to get really techy, play a rector, then wrath the board, then time walk a few times draw cards, and Armageddon.
I used to run time stretch, now there's not point because omniscience does so so much more then time stretch ever could. So what if you blow it up, grats, there's the 98 other cards that never needed omniscience to work. This thing literally combos with non land cards at no cost. Dream halls has a cost, mind over matter is more comparable but is much more narrow. The only reason I see this card not warping the format is because people are dismissing it because of its CMC.
*CN* built a wonderful EDH Halls deck.. just do a search for Tomorrow, Azumi's Familiar and you'll find it. I started with that as a base for an Omnis.. deck.. adding W for the rector and tutors.
Omnis is a fantastically abuseable card.
It doesn't literally win the game.
Barren Glory
Battle of Wits
Coalition Victory
ETC
They win the game literally, this one doesn't.
People are 'dismissing' it because there are far more powerful cards that "literally" win the game too.
We wouldn't want to have decks with big spells that can win the game that aren't green? Oh no, the horror!
I am gonna use High Tide or Gauntlet of Power in a mono-blue deck
It's not the 'best possible way' if it requires 2 unique cards in a 99-cardpool.
I highly suggest you read the card and then look at all the good EDH staple spells. You'll notice that omniscience basically takes every good EDH spell and makes them cost 0 mana. Out of all the big spells in EDH, this is now the most powerful out of all of them. There is no reason to dismiss it because nothing compares to it's power level.
Dream halls is no wear near this card's power level. It's miles behind now. Dream halls gives your opponents the ability to discard cards to cast spells for free as well as you. That's crap compared to omniscience.
Coalition victory is banned and battle of wits does not work in EDH, try it, will never work. Besides you need to wait a whole turn for battle of wits to work if it could work. Those are not comparable.
Barren glory needs to be built around.
Omniscience only requires that you have cards that do stuff and it practically breaks draw spells. This card wont lead to fun times EDH, the only thing it will lead to is sour endings, that's it, there's no in betweens or interactivity with this card.