Both have overly powerful effects for what they are, are abundant in multiple groups, show up in every single game, and become boring very quickly. My playgroup actually doesn't play them much, and I'm still tired of seeing them.
Iona - more often than not, she shuts down at least one player
Consecrated Sphinx - 2 of them are just degenerate
Tooth and Nail - I've never seen anyone not get out an insta-kill combo or severely swing the game their way after TnN resolves
Sorin Markov and on the same note Magister Sphinx (im surprised no one has mentioned it before. you cant really ban one without banning the other.) Ruination: I can't believe they actually reprinted this in the commander decks. It is absolutely a format warping card. I know its supposed to give the advantage to players who don't have the money for revised dual's and shock lands but there are definitely players who take advantage of it. If you are going to have mass LD it shouldn't be one sided IMO.
Sorin Markov, Magister Sphinx, pfft name the last time it did you the last time these did you. Serra Ascendant...comon. When people struggle with these little wonder real cards are an issue.
if you are going to have mass LD it shouldn't be one sided IMO.
It pretty much should be one sided. If your're trying to capitalise on LD (running basics or suspend guys) thats good deck building. Random LD for no gain/win is pointless.
Given up magic because a)its a waste of money b)it sucks the joy out of life c)im doing more interesting things than tapping pieces of plastic that have no intrinsic value.
I encourage you to do the same. Instead of FNM try Friday Night Something Spontaneous. Instead of thousands of hours and dollars on plastic imagine it with a significant other or friends sharing something meaningful. I randomly typed a new password, so bon voyage itches i encourage you to follow suit! Cheers
Sorin Markov, Magister Sphinx, pfft name the last time it did you the last time these did you. Serra Ascendant...comon. When people struggle with these little wonder real cards are an issue.
It pretty much should be one sided. If your're trying to capitalise on LD (running basics or suspend guys) thats good deck building. Random LD for no gain/win is pointless.
I have yet to see a player recover from magister sphinx or sorin. They are usually dead before their turn rolls around again and on turn 6/7 -acceleration that really sucks.
I don't have a problem with mass LD if you are going for the win with suspended cards ect but what makes ruination broken is you can just randomly cast it without taking into consideration your win condition because it is a win condition. Most decks in the format rely on basics therefor to use a card that takes advantage of that makes it format warping.
2. Mind Twist. Normally an effect like this would not be ban worthy, but i have seen this end more games then any other card.
3. Intuition. I don't want them to, in fact i would be really sad, but it's one of the best cards in the format and makes combo nuts.
As for people that mention Sol Ring, kinda shows you don't know what's up since you didn't say Mana Vualt.
Sorin Markov isn't very good. He dose alot of damage, but EDH is won on dominating board state, combo, or hard locks. So he dosn't win alot of games by himself.
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I have yet to see a player recover from magister sphinx or sorin.
But that is just it. It's one player. In a 4 player game on Sorins natural turn he hits one player, doesn't kill him, then everyone targets Sorin even though the threat is over for all intents and purposes. A card that does not effect the board, does not kill a player and only does the effect once(never have seen a PWer pulled out of a GY or go off twice) is hardly ban worthy. I have been Sorined, I Sorin people but never goes beyond "ohh well that sucks". It doesn't draw 8 cards, fetch lands or combo out.
Sombody runs Sharrum with Sphinx (which is FAR better than sorin for the go to 10 purpose) at my group but they get hated out and the most he has done his Thirst for Knowledge / Reanimate etc on more than one person, in one game, was once. He didn't win.
And sure random LD sucks but if a player doesn't play it out at the right time he is as embarrassed and as stuck as everyone else.
It's clear this will turn in Cphinx/PrimeTime bashing pretty quickly. The only sensible suggestion was Survival of the Fittest. That is a card i would discuss a potential banning of. But luckily its expensive in RL so not as many people run it as Cphinx/PrimeTime. And thats lucky because it is far more annoying than those two fattys.
Given up magic because a)its a waste of money b)it sucks the joy out of life c)im doing more interesting things than tapping pieces of plastic that have no intrinsic value.
I encourage you to do the same. Instead of FNM try Friday Night Something Spontaneous. Instead of thousands of hours and dollars on plastic imagine it with a significant other or friends sharing something meaningful. I randomly typed a new password, so bon voyage itches i encourage you to follow suit! Cheers
Why do you think Consecrated Sphinx is more powerful or more dangerous to the formats health then Survival of the fittest?
I have seen the card help, even help alot, but rarely outright win a game.
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We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.
Why do you think Consecrated Sphinx is more powerful or more dangerous to the formats health then Survival of the fittest?
I have seen the card help, even help alot, but rarely outright win a game.
Generally most decks don't have a cost effective way to kill it because of colours/removal choices. Some decks have no way of killing in their colour. It supports mulitple axis plans from excessive tutoring, GY dumping, dredge and can be used in response to anything. You play turns before Sphinx hits the board. In 1v1 i'd choose a Survival deck over Cphinx because i play it occasaionlly on turn 1 but mostly turn 2. It almost never gets countered because it comes out fast or you're playing CiPT lands. In multiplayer it's explosiveness is nurfed somewhat becasue the impact of any creature based 'thingy' is nurfed in multiplayer.
Cphinx hits played gets killed, gets stolen, gets copied, gets bribery, gets countered, taps a player out who casts it if they are dumb. It's still insane but it's far more vulnerable than Survival and can't do anything the turn it's played in of itself leaving the potential that you played a 6 mana do nothing.
Don't ask to compare which is better, hard to say. Only that they are both nutty but I find SoF far more annoying than Cphinx.
Given up magic because a)its a waste of money b)it sucks the joy out of life c)im doing more interesting things than tapping pieces of plastic that have no intrinsic value.
I encourage you to do the same. Instead of FNM try Friday Night Something Spontaneous. Instead of thousands of hours and dollars on plastic imagine it with a significant other or friends sharing something meaningful. I randomly typed a new password, so bon voyage itches i encourage you to follow suit! Cheers
1: palinchron. he's an enabler for too many infinite mana combos than I can count, and some of these combo pieces are even generals (riku, animar).
2: hermit druid: I am a mimeoplasm player. I am an expert on broken things (I have done 78+ broken things). I still feel guilty when I cast this guy on turn two and I get to untap with it. and I run it WITH BASIC LANDS.
3: consecrated sphinx: stupid, degenerate, non-interactive creature that turns the game into "whoever controls the sphinx wins". If I wanted to play CTF, I'd do so.
1&2)Hermit Druid and Ad Nauseam - These cards only serve to enable combos that are absolutely not in line with how the format should play. They have basically no reasonable use.
3) Consecrated Sphinx - IMO, the strongest of the three crazy six drops, merely because two players both having one effectively ends the game for each other player, immediately.
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1&2)Hermit Druid and Ad Nauseam - These cards only serve to enable combos that are absolutely not in line with how the format should play. They have basically no reasonable use.
3) Consecrated Sphinx - IMO, the strongest of the three crazy six drops, merely because two players both having one effectively ends the game for each other player, immediately.
Insurrection always just pisses me off when it's played, especially if interesting interactions were happening between all the other players at the table besides the one who plays the Insurrection. It's tended to be the case, in my experience, that whoever plays Insurrection had nothing going for them the entire game and then, "Oh, wait. I win!" That's fun? Nope.
Thieves' Auction is a little less one-sided. I mean, it's not an auto-win whenever it's played. But, generally speaking, I don't feel like going through the trouble of sorting out all of the cards at the table. You can just have the game, afaic. Once we do sort them all out, nobody's decks work the way they're supposed to anymore. You can't properly exploit my general. I can't do anything with your general. Our decks have all turned to jank. That's how it tends to feel to me.
Blah. Thinking about those two cards just got me pissed off first thing in the morning
If I was to come at this from the "I simply hate/am completely bored with seeing these cards" as opposed to "These are bad cards for the format," I'd pick:
Please don't read anything deeper into that answer. None of these cards is in any danger of even getting discussed, although it underscores the point that there's a difference between cards I dislike and cards I think deserve to be on the banned list.
Survival of the Fittest - too powerful of a tutor, even for EDH Iona, Shield of Emeria - With Erayo banned, this card fits the same category of "no one ever plays this for fun or to have an interesting game" can't see anyone crying over its loss. (Of course I don't believe Erayo should be banned, but if one is the other should be) Tainted Strike -Strong? No. Run a lot? No. Irritating because it removes one person from a game at any point when a decent creature is out? Yes. I have a personal hatred of this card in a multilayer format. It is easily the most anticlimactic card there is.
The fact that this card is still legal is baffling honestly, I've honestly never seen a list that uses him "fairly". He almost always ends the game in short order and he's really cheap so it can happen really early.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
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But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
Blightsteel Colossus
Gaea's Cradle
Sorin Markov
Hermit Druid
Norin the Wary
No casual applications anywhere. bad for format.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Forest
Swamp
On a more serious note,
Primeval Titan
Consecrated Sphinx
Both have overly powerful effects for what they are, are abundant in multiple groups, show up in every single game, and become boring very quickly. My playgroup actually doesn't play them much, and I'm still tired of seeing them.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Consecrated Sphinx - 2 of them are just degenerate
Tooth and Nail - I've never seen anyone not get out an insta-kill combo or severely swing the game their way after TnN resolves
Serra ascendant
Hermit Druid
Those are really the only three I think are truly broken in this format.
I think if you ban tooth and nail, then you have to ban cards like insurrection and time stretch, and I don't want to play endless games.
UBRThe MindrazerRBU
UUUSpymaster of TrestGGG
GGGThe South TreeGGG
RRRHuman AscendantRRR
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Ruination: I can't believe they actually reprinted this in the commander decks. It is absolutely a format warping card. I know its supposed to give the advantage to players who don't have the money for revised dual's and shock lands but there are definitely players who take advantage of it. If you are going to have mass LD it shouldn't be one sided IMO.
Sorin Markov, Magister Sphinx, pfft name the last time it did you the last time these did you. Serra Ascendant...comon. When people struggle with these little wonder real cards are an issue.
It pretty much should be one sided. If your're trying to capitalise on LD (running basics or suspend guys) thats good deck building. Random LD for no gain/win is pointless.
I encourage you to do the same. Instead of FNM try Friday Night Something Spontaneous. Instead of thousands of hours and dollars on plastic imagine it with a significant other or friends sharing something meaningful. I randomly typed a new password, so bon voyage itches i encourage you to follow suit! Cheers
I have yet to see a player recover from magister sphinx or sorin. They are usually dead before their turn rolls around again and on turn 6/7 -acceleration that really sucks.
I don't have a problem with mass LD if you are going for the win with suspended cards ect but what makes ruination broken is you can just randomly cast it without taking into consideration your win condition because it is a win condition. Most decks in the format rely on basics therefor to use a card that takes advantage of that makes it format warping.
Interesting Choice, since only one of those cards is op. I guess it matters on your play group and how long you have been playing.
1. Survival of the Fittest. By far the most powerful card, per it's price and easy of use.
2. Mind Twist. Normally an effect like this would not be ban worthy, but i have seen this end more games then any other card.
3. Intuition. I don't want them to, in fact i would be really sad, but it's one of the best cards in the format and makes combo nuts.
As for people that mention Sol Ring, kinda shows you don't know what's up since you didn't say Mana Vualt.
Sorin Markov isn't very good. He dose alot of damage, but EDH is won on dominating board state, combo, or hard locks. So he dosn't win alot of games by himself.
Consecrated Sphinx
Primeval Titan
Sombody runs Sharrum with Sphinx (which is FAR better than sorin for the go to 10 purpose) at my group but they get hated out and the most he has done his Thirst for Knowledge / Reanimate etc on more than one person, in one game, was once. He didn't win.
And sure random LD sucks but if a player doesn't play it out at the right time he is as embarrassed and as stuck as everyone else.
It's clear this will turn in Cphinx/PrimeTime bashing pretty quickly. The only sensible suggestion was Survival of the Fittest. That is a card i would discuss a potential banning of. But luckily its expensive in RL so not as many people run it as Cphinx/PrimeTime. And thats lucky because it is far more annoying than those two fattys.
I encourage you to do the same. Instead of FNM try Friday Night Something Spontaneous. Instead of thousands of hours and dollars on plastic imagine it with a significant other or friends sharing something meaningful. I randomly typed a new password, so bon voyage itches i encourage you to follow suit! Cheers
Why do you think Consecrated Sphinx is more powerful or more dangerous to the formats health then Survival of the fittest?
I have seen the card help, even help alot, but rarely outright win a game.
Hermit Druid no need for this deck to exist anymore
Sensei's Divining Top should probably be played in every deck which means it needs to go
Generally most decks don't have a cost effective way to kill it because of colours/removal choices. Some decks have no way of killing in their colour. It supports mulitple axis plans from excessive tutoring, GY dumping, dredge and can be used in response to anything. You play turns before Sphinx hits the board. In 1v1 i'd choose a Survival deck over Cphinx because i play it occasaionlly on turn 1 but mostly turn 2. It almost never gets countered because it comes out fast or you're playing CiPT lands. In multiplayer it's explosiveness is nurfed somewhat becasue the impact of any creature based 'thingy' is nurfed in multiplayer.
Cphinx hits played gets killed, gets stolen, gets copied, gets bribery, gets countered, taps a player out who casts it if they are dumb. It's still insane but it's far more vulnerable than Survival and can't do anything the turn it's played in of itself leaving the potential that you played a 6 mana do nothing.
Don't ask to compare which is better, hard to say. Only that they are both nutty but I find SoF far more annoying than Cphinx.
(going to bed, respond away)
I encourage you to do the same. Instead of FNM try Friday Night Something Spontaneous. Instead of thousands of hours and dollars on plastic imagine it with a significant other or friends sharing something meaningful. I randomly typed a new password, so bon voyage itches i encourage you to follow suit! Cheers
2: hermit druid: I am a mimeoplasm player. I am an expert on broken things (I have done 78+ broken things). I still feel guilty when I cast this guy on turn two and I get to untap with it. and I run it WITH BASIC LANDS.
3: consecrated sphinx: stupid, degenerate, non-interactive creature that turns the game into "whoever controls the sphinx wins". If I wanted to play CTF, I'd do so.
3) Consecrated Sphinx - IMO, the strongest of the three crazy six drops, merely because two players both having one effectively ends the game for each other player, immediately.
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THANK YOU. First person to say Ad Nauseam
1. Hermit Druid
2. Ad Nauseam
3. Iona
GRRWHazezon Tamar (Valakut)GRRW
UKami of the Crescent Moon (
Group Hug)UUHeidar, Rimewind Master [Mini-Primer]U
WKemba, Kha Regent (Stax)W
GEzuri, Renegade Leader [Primer]G
Insurrection always just pisses me off when it's played, especially if interesting interactions were happening between all the other players at the table besides the one who plays the Insurrection. It's tended to be the case, in my experience, that whoever plays Insurrection had nothing going for them the entire game and then, "Oh, wait. I win!" That's fun? Nope.
Thieves' Auction is a little less one-sided. I mean, it's not an auto-win whenever it's played. But, generally speaking, I don't feel like going through the trouble of sorting out all of the cards at the table. You can just have the game, afaic. Once we do sort them all out, nobody's decks work the way they're supposed to anymore. You can't properly exploit my general. I can't do anything with your general. Our decks have all turned to jank. That's how it tends to feel to me.
Blah. Thinking about those two cards just got me pissed off first thing in the morning
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Mindslaver
Vicious Shadows
Sorin Markov
Please don't read anything deeper into that answer. None of these cards is in any danger of even getting discussed, although it underscores the point that there's a difference between cards I dislike and cards I think deserve to be on the banned list.
Iona, Shield of Emeria - With Erayo banned, this card fits the same category of "no one ever plays this for fun or to have an interesting game" can't see anyone crying over its loss. (Of course I don't believe Erayo should be banned, but if one is the other should be)
Tainted Strike -Strong? No. Run a lot? No. Irritating because it removes one person from a game at any point when a decent creature is out? Yes. I have a personal hatred of this card in a multilayer format. It is easily the most anticlimactic card there is.
2. Hermit Druid
3. Hermit Druid
The fact that this card is still legal is baffling honestly, I've honestly never seen a list that uses him "fairly". He almost always ends the game in short order and he's really cheap so it can happen really early.
Anti-Tinker (When you cast this, Unban Tinker)
Hermit Druid
Lover of EDH, hater of whiny EDH players.
Memnite: Least favorite general to play
Arcum Dagsson: Second least favorite general to play
... thats all
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