You're allowed to play good cards. You should only ban cards that are broken because they don't function as intended in the format. (mind funeral et al.)
I agree with this, only cards that should make it impossible for horde to win or gut the deck (and are against format as result) should be banned. I think should make principles that say why each card is banned, so it doesn't just seem so arbitrary to new people reading.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Editor’s Note: One concept tossed around in the testing of Horde Magic was also featuring preconstructed Survivor decks designed and balanced to face off against the Zombie Horde. You would essentially be selecting your class/role prior to beginning the fending off of the Horde, which would create plug-and-play capabilities if you want to play the game with friends lacking EDH decks. Plus, there’s the whole fun of designing and tweaking Survivor decks, too. But this is a task to be taken on after the format has proven its worth, as these decks take time and testing.
What are you guy's thoughts on this? My playgroup (self included) run EDH decks that I doubt would have a difficult time with just the plain horde deck. While we are mostly Spikes, we would all be up for the challenge of overcoming a zombie horde using some more balanced but challenging preconstructed Survivor decks. I have been pondering it over in my head and I was just wondering if you guys had any ideas that pertained to something like this.
If you had to make Survivor decks, do you think that they should each have a distinct feel and role to each? Should they all be a certain color (e.g. All mono white) or should we have 4 mono color decks (Red, White, Blue, Green), mixed colors? I don't know what feels most thematically fitting.
Also should we use flavor-y generals like Major Teroh? (Slash can you think of other cool generals like this??) Should planeswalkers be allowed? Do any crazy awesome ideas just pop out at you related to this?
I just want to hear your thoughts, reading over the idea of Horde magic just got me pumped and I really want to make up some decks so me and my friends can casually sling cards while we are inbetween rounds/etc. = ) Thanks!
What are you guy's thoughts on this? My playgroup (self included) run EDH decks that I doubt would have a difficult time with just the plain horde deck. While we are mostly Spikes, we would all be up for the challenge of overcoming a zombie horde using some more balanced but challenging preconstructed Survivor decks. I have been pondering it over in my head and I was just wondering if you guys had any ideas that pertained to something like this.
If you had to make Survivor decks, do you think that they should each have a distinct feel and role to each? Should they all be a certain color (e.g. All mono white) or should we have 4 mono color decks (Red, White, Blue, Green), mixed colors? I don't know what feels most thematically fitting.
Also should we use flavor-y generals like Major Teroh? (Slash can you think of other cool generals like this??) Should planeswalkers be allowed? Do any crazy awesome ideas just pop out at you related to this?
I just want to hear your thoughts, reading over the idea of Horde magic just got me pumped and I really want to make up some decks so me and my friends can casually sling cards while we are inbetween rounds/etc. = ) Thanks!
I started working on this because yeah, I don't think the horde would challenge anyone in my group either, particularly working together. I like the idea of assigning each deck a role but wonder what those roles should be? Tentatively, I was going with D&D 4th Edition's "Defender, Striker, Controller, Leader" paradigm and wanted to make all of the generals humans for flavor purposes, but didn't worry about colors. It just doesn't feel the same when your "survivors" are dragons, beasts or angels or whatever, or even zombies themselves! I guess other common sentient races like merfolk, goblins, elves, leonin etc. would be fine.
So far I just have a Ragnar "Leader" deck, which is a bit group hug with cards such as Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Windfall, Rites of Flourishing, etc., but also a heavy focus on life gain and pump effects that can raise the power of all attacking creatures to make your allied decks' attackers stronger too, such as anything with Battle Cry, Contested War Zone (which could be scary if the horde gets ahold of it!) and Pianna, Nomad Captain.
I think Planeswalkers are fine, haven't really thought of any that would pose a problem besides any iteration of Jace. I have however capped myself at 21 rares per deck, so in Ragnar's 99 there is only Elspeth Tirel, since real estate is limited. The only sticking point I can see is deciding when or if the horde attacks them. But that can be handled with a die roll or just saying that the horde throws as much power that way as each walker has loyalty.
I think the rules need to just say something like if an ability or effect would stop the horde creatures attacking, ignore it. It seems in spirit of the format to always have them attacking. Slivers would be an issue for sure, but maybe the horde deck also needs to have better quality cards to make it more successful, like more fleshbag marauder or syphon flesh or Plague Wind.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
I started working on this because yeah, I don't think the horde would challenge anyone in my group either, particularly working together. I like the idea of assigning each deck a role but wonder what those roles should be? Tentatively, I was going with D&D 4th Edition's "Defender, Striker, Controller, Leader" paradigm and wanted to make all of the generals humans for flavor purposes, but didn't worry about colors. It just doesn't feel the same when your "survivors" are dragons, beasts or angels or whatever, or even zombies themselves! I guess other common sentient races like merfolk, goblins, elves, leonin etc. would be fine.
So far I just have a Ragnar "Leader" deck, which is a bit group hug with cards such as Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Windfall, Rites of Flourishing, etc., but also a heavy focus on life gain and pump effects that can raise the power of all attacking creatures to make your allied decks' attackers stronger too, such as anything with Battle Cry, Contested War Zone (which could be scary if the horde gets ahold of it!) and Pianna, Nomad Captain.
I think Planeswalkers are fine, haven't really thought of any that would pose a problem besides any iteration of Jace. I have however capped myself at 21 rares per deck, so in Ragnar's 99 there is only Elspeth Tirel, since real estate is limited. The only sticking point I can see is deciding when or if the horde attacks them. But that can be handled with a die roll or just saying that the horde throws as much power that way as each walker has loyalty.
But yes the attacking planeswalkers is what gets me too, I think for now I will leave them out since there are plenty of other less powerful but fun and rarely played spells out there to be put to use in this format. = )
Also I can't remember, do the humans share a life total? Or does each player have their own life total?
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
The role probably doesn't need to be defined by the commander as much as the deck itself, though it's nice and flavorful for the commander to fit it too. I was thinking of the following criteria:
Striker: Straight up aggro. Hasty beats, voltron generals, evasion, trample, damage boosts (Gratuitous Violence, Howl From Beyond), etc. This role will probably play a lot of cards that normally suck in EDH, which is cool. I think token swarms could fall here too, I suppose.
Controller: Manages the horde. Direct damage, spot removal, sweepers, tap effects, counterspells, clones, steal effects, bounce/tuck effects, graveyard hate?, debuffs (Engineered Plague?) and so forth.
Leader: Provides positive effects that apply to all players. Global attack boosts, card draw, lifegain, ramp, etc.
I think for now I will leave Planeswalkers out since there are plenty of other less powerful but fun and rarely played spells out there to be put to use in this format. = )
Compelling point, especially with an approach with more commons/uncommons.
Survivor's have 20 life per person, combined in one total, akin to 2hg rules.
An aside: The article doesn't differentiate, but for solo play, I'd recmmend the regular 40 life per EDH rules. I've been playtesting that and flipping over a bunch of zombie tokens is just too much of a life swing for less than 40 life to be viable. Solo play at this total can be extremely difficult as-is.
The role probably doesn't need to be defined by the commander as much as the deck itself, though it's nice and flavorful for the commander to fit it too. I was thinking of the following criteria:
Striker: Straight up aggro. Hasty beats, voltron generals, evasion, trample, damage boosts (Gratuitous Violence, Howl From Beyond), etc. This role will probably play a lot of cards that normally suck in EDH, which is cool. I think token swarms could fall here too, I suppose.
Controller: Manages the horde. Direct damage, spot removal, sweepers, tap effects, counterspells, clones, steal effects, bounce/tuck effects, graveyard hate?, debuffs (Engineered Plague?) and so forth.
Leader: Provides positive effects that apply to all players. Global attack boosts, card draw, lifegain, ramp, etc.
Compelling point, especially with an approach with more commons/uncommons.
An aside: The article doesn't differentiate, but for solo play, I'd recmmend the regular 40 life per EDH rules. I've been playtesting that and flipping over a bunch of zombie tokens is just too much of a life swing for less than 40 life to be viable. Solo play at this total can be extremely difficult as-is.
I definitely like the ideas for roles you've put out, I'm about to go to sleep but I'll definitely be brewing when i get back up especially trying to find ways to utilize the join forces cards from the commander precons. = )
I really like the role ideas you guys have put forth, since I've been finding that my decks, and those of my friends, crush any variant of the Horde deck that we can come up with. I personally am going to try to create a set of mono color (everything but black, cuz that's for the zombies) EDH decks, with human generals for the flavor of it all, that fulfill those roles. As of now they are as follows:
Defender: Atalya, Samite Master - She focuses on keeping the life total up, and protecting creatures. There will be some Fog effects in here, and ways of preventing damage to creatures. Might see some indestructability and protection from black/creatures in here as well. We will see.
Controller: Alexi, Zephyr Mage - I wanna try to keep creatures and permanents off the board as much as possible. As far as I am aware, the Horde just re-casts the cards on their next main phase, but this could save everyone from death pretty handily. Lots of bounce effects, and some to tap down creatures as well.
Striker: Jeska, Warrior Adept - She has first strike, power to beat down a good amount of zombies, and the ability to ping. I want LOTS of these sorts of effects, and tons of burn. Comet Storms, Starstorms, Slagstorms, you get the idea. Lots of direct damage and powerful creatures.
Leader: Kamahl, Fist of Krosa - I struggled with this at first, but I realized he is exactly what I want in a leader: someone to keep the troops in line, and to rally them up to defend (or attack). Lots of global pump spells here, maybe some token creation, I shall have to see.
I think this has the potential to make a fun and flavorful game type, and at the same time keeps it balanced. No single deck is going to be an unstoppable force against the Horde on its own, but they should be able to handle reasonably well together. The zombies are gonna have some tricks up their sleeves as well (I don't think banning Twilight's Call is warranted, those undead need some way to win). If you guys would like, I can post all of my lists as soon as they're created. Thanks for giving me a huge project to embark on!
I really like the role ideas you guys have put forth, since I've been finding that my decks, and those of my friends, crush any variant of the Horde deck that we can come up with. I personally am going to try to create a set of mono color (everything but black, cuz that's for the zombies) EDH decks, with human generals for the flavor of it all, that fulfill those roles. As of now they are as follows:
Defender: Atalya, Samite Master - She focuses on keeping the life total up, and protecting creatures. There will be some Fog effects in here, and ways of preventing damage to creatures. Might see some indestructability and protection from black/creatures in here as well. We will see.
Controller: Alexi, Zephyr Mage - I wanna try to keep creatures and permanents off the board as much as possible. As far as I am aware, the Horde just re-casts the cards on their next main phase, but this could save everyone from death pretty handily. Lots of bounce effects, and some to tap down creatures as well.
Striker: Jeska, Warrior Adept - She has first strike, power to beat down a good amount of zombies, and the ability to ping. I want LOTS of these sorts of effects, and tons of burn. Comet Storms, Starstorms, Slagstorms, you get the idea. Lots of direct damage and powerful creatures.
Leader: Kamahl, Fist of Krosa - I struggled with this at first, but I realized he is exactly what I want in a leader: someone to keep the troops in line, and to rally them up to defend (or attack). Lots of global pump spells here, maybe some token creation, I shall have to see.
I think this has the potential to make a fun and flavorful game type, and at the same time keeps it balanced. No single deck is going to be an unstoppable force against the Horde on its own, but they should be able to handle reasonably well together. The zombies are gonna have some tricks up their sleeves as well (I don't think banning Twilight's Call is warranted, those undead need some way to win). If you guys would like, I can post all of my lists as soon as they're created. Thanks for giving me a huge project to embark on!
I definitely like these ideas and general choices, I am very interested to see your lists when you get finished, or even before you get finished just to see your ideas. = )
I think now a lot of it is going to have to involve how to balance the power level of the survivors decks against the power level of the horde. It should be a challenge to win, but not impossible. Also I don't think Twilight's Call needs to be banned, I think there is a certain feeling of dread you get as the game wears on and you never know if the next card you flip will be that Twilight's Call. = )
I really like the role ideas you guys have put forth, since I've been finding that my decks, and those of my friends, crush any variant of the Horde deck that we can come up with.
It's not hard to make the horde deck challenging. The horde doesn't have/rely on lands or cards in hand, so armageddons, winter orbs, and stuff like mindslicer or bottomless pit can be very painful.
You could also remove the 3-turn setup period some people use. Have the horde play first and start flipping cards on turn 1.
Agreed. How long could a bunch of standard edh decks last against a horde of 4/4 and 5/5 flying dragon tokens, or a bunch of 9/9 mirrodin besieged golems?
So while I am working on the survivor decks, I wanted to try to come up with a Horde deck first and then base the power-level of the survivors from there. This is my current iteration of the Horde deck, I've tried to keep it as "dumb" as possible. I cut zombies like Cemetery Reaper just so the Horde deck doesn't have to make decisions. All it does is flip cards, and then attacks you. Opinions or thoughts? = )
I don't know how strong your survivor decks are going to be, but I think typical EDH decks wouldn't have much trouble beating this horde. I do appreciate the use of bottomless pit :3
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
.
Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
I don't know how strong your survivor decks are going to be, but I think typical EDH decks wouldn't have much trouble beating this horde. I do appreciate the use of bottomless pit :3
Ah well, I'm almost afraid that it might be too powerful against the janky jank 0.25 cent rare survivor decks I am working on building. To give you an idea, this is the skeleton version of the Mono-White Survivor Deck:
Although it's meant to just buy time and prevent damage and heal the team, I might want to make the horde deck even stronger just to make the game feel more like a true struggle instead of sitting back behind a huge fortification of walls/etc. Hmm....
I like including the 8 infect insects, because it makes blocking decisions more interesting. Likewise a larger number of creature sizes makes combat slightly more complicated, but could provide greater tension. Perhaps I have too many creatures that are larger than 2/2 though?
Other suggestions?
Edit: I just realised including a creature like taunting elf or prized unicorn would probably be instant death for the survivors... lol, this is an interesting format
Raging Goblins stand in for 1/1 Goblin goblin tokens, and trained orggs stand for 6/6 Orgg tokens, because it seems to me the kind of thing that a horde of goblins might have for a pet.
Cards were chosen to be thematic. For example, I imagine goblins can easily start wildfires, spread diseases, overrun some unfortunates, or find a dangerous magical artifact that they bring charging into battle with them.
(Yeah, Murderous Redcap is a decision-making card, but I would just have it always target the survivors, because it's too cool not to include.)
* Since the horde is assumed to have unlimited mana, Null Champions level up to maximum right away.
It's okay so far, but too many games are decided in the first two or three rounds after the horde begins flipping cards while playing with only one deck. If they get something ridiculous early on, or two many tokens, it doesn't matter how well your first three turns went; conversely, if the horde whiffs its first or second play, it becomes very easy to stabilise to the point that not even something stupid like Coat of Arms or Insurrection can turn the tide in the zombies' favour. Any suggestions for cards that can break a staunch line of defense but won't unbalance a game too early?
Also, any suggestions on more scalable cards (eg. Rotting Rats, Syphon Flesh) would be great, since two or more decks working together just destroy the horde, thanks mainly to the high life total. My original list had Inferno and Breath of Malfagor, but they randomly ended single-player games far too often. Maybe I should try to track down more copies of Soulquake, since that's pretty much perfect for the kind of effect I'm after.
I think this could be really fun. I think I'll try to implement a "Harder Difficulty" by using an Archenemy deck to go with it. Got to figure out which cards to use. I think the rule will be if the Horde deck doesn't flip a Zombie for it's first card then it also uses a Archenemy card.
I built and played a zombie horde fairly similar to the original article's, but it landed up getting rolled in a 2 player match. I've attempted to beef it up a bit for my lgs' weekend edh night.
I've been playing around with a horde deck the last week or so and figured I'd post a few of the cards I'm going with. I'm also trying to make the deck rather powerful, so I'm putting a lot of cards in multiples (such as 2-3 Plague Wind and 2 Coat of Arms) that others seem to put singletons. I don't care if it's not black, just that it fits zombies.
Gratuitous Violence (zombies are known to be very violent) Time Reversal (sure they aren't known to go back in time, but I take this as them reanimating to wreck havoc once again)
That's all I can remember off of the top of my head, but here are some classes for the heroes I've thought of. My idea is to treat this like a board game where you have multiple classes to choose from. This way you can have a different game each time as you'll have different classes participating all the time.
Tor Wauki - Sniper (targeted removal such as burn, pingers, and kill spells that can hit black creatures) Mikaeus, the Lunarch - Cleric (human deck that has lots of support magic like Mikaeus' ability, equipment, and aura's) Riku of Two Reflections - Wizard (take your pick... card draw, burn, pump spells... I'm thinking few creatures and lots of attack and support magic to replicate) Fumiko the Lowblood or Lovisa Coldeyes - Warrior (lots of big guys that are meant to either attack or defend against the horde. Fumiko is obviously for the defensive while Lovisa is for the offensive. Equipment sub-theme is what I also think for this deck) Kiku, Night's Flower - Assassin (does what black does best - kill opponents creatures. Any kind of killing effect that can hit black creatures is what this is all about. Deathtouch aplenty) Ragnar - Supporter/beastmaster (lots of aura's and other supportive magic. This also boasts animal creatures to back up the support [animals to make him a beastmaster is just for my personal flavour]) Kaysa - Swarm (lots of smaller green creatures that get mean when put alongside her effect. Cheap and quick, it's all about getting a quick defense or offense of little guys [your choice based on how you want to design it]) Lady Evangela - Walls (this is all about getting a rock-solid defense going. These three colours often have some of the best walls, hence why I went with esper. The white portion also has a lot of the prevent damage creatures like Atalya, Samite Master)
That's all I've thought of for now. Obviously some of these are not the optimal choices (I'm doing these for flavour of fitting their decks first). I also held myself to humans/humanoids for the generals.
I agree with this, only cards that should make it impossible for horde to win or gut the deck (and are against format as result) should be banned. I think should make principles that say why each card is banned, so it doesn't just seem so arbitrary to new people reading.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
What are you guy's thoughts on this? My playgroup (self included) run EDH decks that I doubt would have a difficult time with just the plain horde deck. While we are mostly Spikes, we would all be up for the challenge of overcoming a zombie horde using some more balanced but challenging preconstructed Survivor decks. I have been pondering it over in my head and I was just wondering if you guys had any ideas that pertained to something like this.
If you had to make Survivor decks, do you think that they should each have a distinct feel and role to each? Should they all be a certain color (e.g. All mono white) or should we have 4 mono color decks (Red, White, Blue, Green), mixed colors? I don't know what feels most thematically fitting.
Also should we use flavor-y generals like Major Teroh? (Slash can you think of other cool generals like this??) Should planeswalkers be allowed? Do any crazy awesome ideas just pop out at you related to this?
I just want to hear your thoughts, reading over the idea of Horde magic just got me pumped and I really want to make up some decks so me and my friends can casually sling cards while we are inbetween rounds/etc. = ) Thanks!
I started working on this because yeah, I don't think the horde would challenge anyone in my group either, particularly working together. I like the idea of assigning each deck a role but wonder what those roles should be? Tentatively, I was going with D&D 4th Edition's "Defender, Striker, Controller, Leader" paradigm and wanted to make all of the generals humans for flavor purposes, but didn't worry about colors. It just doesn't feel the same when your "survivors" are dragons, beasts or angels or whatever, or even zombies themselves! I guess other common sentient races like merfolk, goblins, elves, leonin etc. would be fine.
So far I just have a Ragnar "Leader" deck, which is a bit group hug with cards such as Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Windfall, Rites of Flourishing, etc., but also a heavy focus on life gain and pump effects that can raise the power of all attacking creatures to make your allied decks' attackers stronger too, such as anything with Battle Cry, Contested War Zone (which could be scary if the horde gets ahold of it!) and Pianna, Nomad Captain.
I think Planeswalkers are fine, haven't really thought of any that would pose a problem besides any iteration of Jace. I have however capped myself at 21 rares per deck, so in Ragnar's 99 there is only Elspeth Tirel, since real estate is limited. The only sticking point I can see is deciding when or if the horde attacks them. But that can be handled with a die roll or just saying that the horde throws as much power that way as each walker has loyalty.
Mon.Jun.25.12:36.am <> They should make a forum called The Butter
Mon.Jun.25.12:36.am <> The only thing you're allowed to talk about is food
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
Exactly, I'm not quite sure how to translate those roles into the world of magic where your objective and resources are a bit more linear. I like your idea of sticking to humans vs zombies for flavor purposes. I think I need to browse through the list of legendary humans and find some reasonably costed and decent commanders that pop out. Like maybe generals such as Mikaeus, the Lunarch, Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker, Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Jeska, Warrior Adept, Jaya Ballard, Task Mage, Sakashima the Impostor, Azusa, Lost but Seeking, Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero, Braids, Conjurer Adept, Rakka Mar, Hanna, Ship's Navigator, etc, etc... and then pick the 4 most appropriate generals, and then generate deck ideas from there.
But yes the attacking planeswalkers is what gets me too, I think for now I will leave them out since there are plenty of other less powerful but fun and rarely played spells out there to be put to use in this format. = )
Also I can't remember, do the humans share a life total? Or does each player have their own life total?
Survivor's have 20 life per person, combined in one total, akin to 2hg rules.
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
The role probably doesn't need to be defined by the commander as much as the deck itself, though it's nice and flavorful for the commander to fit it too. I was thinking of the following criteria:
Defender: Provides barriers to slow down the horde's attack. Walls, Mazes, damage prevention effects (Guardian Seraph, Master Healer etc.), fogs, punisher effects (No Mercy, Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker), toughness boosts, etc.
Striker: Straight up aggro. Hasty beats, voltron generals, evasion, trample, damage boosts (Gratuitous Violence, Howl From Beyond), etc. This role will probably play a lot of cards that normally suck in EDH, which is cool. I think token swarms could fall here too, I suppose.
Controller: Manages the horde. Direct damage, spot removal, sweepers, tap effects, counterspells, clones, steal effects, bounce/tuck effects, graveyard hate?, debuffs (Engineered Plague?) and so forth.
Leader: Provides positive effects that apply to all players. Global attack boosts, card draw, lifegain, ramp, etc.
Compelling point, especially with an approach with more commons/uncommons.
An aside: The article doesn't differentiate, but for solo play, I'd recmmend the regular 40 life per EDH rules. I've been playtesting that and flipping over a bunch of zombie tokens is just too much of a life swing for less than 40 life to be viable. Solo play at this total can be extremely difficult as-is.
Mon.Jun.25.12:36.am <> They should make a forum called The Butter
Mon.Jun.25.12:36.am <> The only thing you're allowed to talk about is food
I definitely like the ideas for roles you've put out, I'm about to go to sleep but I'll definitely be brewing when i get back up especially trying to find ways to utilize the join forces cards from the commander precons. = )
Defender: Atalya, Samite Master - She focuses on keeping the life total up, and protecting creatures. There will be some Fog effects in here, and ways of preventing damage to creatures. Might see some indestructability and protection from black/creatures in here as well. We will see.
Controller: Alexi, Zephyr Mage - I wanna try to keep creatures and permanents off the board as much as possible. As far as I am aware, the Horde just re-casts the cards on their next main phase, but this could save everyone from death pretty handily. Lots of bounce effects, and some to tap down creatures as well.
Striker: Jeska, Warrior Adept - She has first strike, power to beat down a good amount of zombies, and the ability to ping. I want LOTS of these sorts of effects, and tons of burn. Comet Storms, Starstorms, Slagstorms, you get the idea. Lots of direct damage and powerful creatures.
Leader: Kamahl, Fist of Krosa - I struggled with this at first, but I realized he is exactly what I want in a leader: someone to keep the troops in line, and to rally them up to defend (or attack). Lots of global pump spells here, maybe some token creation, I shall have to see.
I think this has the potential to make a fun and flavorful game type, and at the same time keeps it balanced. No single deck is going to be an unstoppable force against the Horde on its own, but they should be able to handle reasonably well together. The zombies are gonna have some tricks up their sleeves as well (I don't think banning Twilight's Call is warranted, those undead need some way to win). If you guys would like, I can post all of my lists as soon as they're created. Thanks for giving me a huge project to embark on!
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
I definitely like these ideas and general choices, I am very interested to see your lists when you get finished, or even before you get finished just to see your ideas. = )
I think now a lot of it is going to have to involve how to balance the power level of the survivors decks against the power level of the horde. It should be a challenge to win, but not impossible. Also I don't think Twilight's Call needs to be banned, I think there is a certain feeling of dread you get as the game wears on and you never know if the next card you flip will be that Twilight's Call. = )
It's not hard to make the horde deck challenging. The horde doesn't have/rely on lands or cards in hand, so armageddons, winter orbs, and stuff like mindslicer or bottomless pit can be very painful.
You could also remove the 3-turn setup period some people use. Have the horde play first and start flipping cards on turn 1.
the horde I made http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?b=6402 is pretty tough just because it can **** with your mana. With less than 4 survivors it's a real challenge.
Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
Click here and check out my Formerly Pauper Cube.
check out my EDH and Pauper EDH decks here
Agreed. How long could a bunch of standard edh decks last against a horde of 4/4 and 5/5 flying dragon tokens, or a bunch of 9/9 mirrodin besieged golems?
Throwing in cards like cover of darkness, eldrazi monument, city of solitude, and akroma's memorial, or terrifying effects like titanic ultimatum, and i'm sure you'd make the survivors' lives miserable.
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
5 Zombie Giant Token
55 Zombie Token
2 Death Baron
2 Vengeful Dead
2 Unbreathing Horde
2 Grixis Slavedriver
2 Mindsplicer
2 Ghoul Raiser
2 Cackling Fiend
1 Nested Ghoul
1 Undead Warchief
1 Twisted Abomination
1 Ashen Ghoul
1 Noxious Ghoul
1 Woebearer
1 Twisted Abomination
1 Gloomdrifter
1 Viscera Dragger
1 Gluttonous Zombie
1 Phage the Untouchable
1 Walking Corpse
1 Infectious Horror
1 Rotting Fensnake
1 Dross Crocodile
2 Forsaken Wastes
1 Twilight's Call
1 Plague Wind
1 Endless Ranks of the Dead
2 Bad Moon
1 Unnerve
1 Call to the Grave
I don't know how strong your survivor decks are going to be, but I think typical EDH decks wouldn't have much trouble beating this horde. I do appreciate the use of bottomless pit :3
Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
Click here and check out my Formerly Pauper Cube.
check out my EDH and Pauper EDH decks here
Ah well, I'm almost afraid that it might be too powerful against the janky jank 0.25 cent rare survivor decks I am working on building. To give you an idea, this is the skeleton version of the Mono-White Survivor Deck:
1 Soul Warden
1 Soul's Attendant
1 Master Apothecary
1 Children of Korlis
1 Order of Whiteclay
1 Field Surgeon
1 Avacynian Priest
1 Master Healer
1 Shieldmage Elder
1 Oriss, Samite Guardian
1 Orim, Samite Healer
1 Order of Leitbur
1 Goldmeadow Harrier
1 Gideon's Lawkeeper
1 Devout Lightcaster
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Starlight Envoker
1 Hallowed Healer
1 Wall of Omens
1 Wall of Nets
1 Wall of Essence
1 Wall of Glare
1 Wall of Hope
1 Angelic Wall
1 Wall of Resistance
1 Alabaster Wall
1 Pacifism
1 Holy Day
1 Condemn
1 Angelsong
1 Shining Shoal
1 Temper
1 Day of Judgment
1 Well of Lost Dreams
Although it's meant to just buy time and prevent damage and heal the team, I might want to make the horde deck even stronger just to make the game feel more like a true struggle instead of sitting back behind a huge fortification of walls/etc. Hmm....
I'm thinking of making a Slivers horde deck... wonder how fast that could get out of hand...
WURZedruu the GreatheartedWUR
I'm tempted to make a mono green horde deck using the variety of green tokens that are available.
Maybe as a starting point:
10 Saproling and/or Snake (1/1)
8 Insect (1/1 infect)
27 Wolf and/or Lizard (2/2)
7 Beast and/or Elephant (3/3)
5 Beast (4/4)
3 Wurm (6/6)
2 All is Dust
1 Overrun
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Tranquility
1 Gaea's Anthem
2 Magnify
1 Whirlwind
3 Tribute of the Wild
1 Joven's Ferrets
1 Bellowing Tanglewurm
I like including the 8 infect insects, because it makes blocking decisions more interesting. Likewise a larger number of creature sizes makes combat slightly more complicated, but could provide greater tension. Perhaps I have too many creatures that are larger than 2/2 though?
Other suggestions?
Edit: I just realised including a creature like taunting elf or prized unicorn would probably be instant death for the survivors... lol, this is an interesting format
So I played a game the other day against a Goblin Horde deck. It faired modestly poorly, but I was inspired to try making my own.
55 Raging Goblin
5 Trained Orgg
2 Goblin Piledriver
1 Goblin Arsonist
3 Goblin Chieftain
1 Mad Auntie
1 Rustrazor Butcher
1 Earwig Squad
1 Goblin Dynamo
1 Reckless One
1 Hearthfire Hobgoblin
2 Murderous Redcap
1 Scuzzback Marauders
1 Hungry Spriggan
1 Horde of Boggarts
1 Boartusk Liege
2 Boggart Ram-Gang
2 Boggart Mob
1 Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician
1 Caterwauling Boggart
1 Caged Sun
1 Boggart Shenanigans
1 Gratuitous Violence
4 Empty the Warrens
1 Goblin Assault
1 Wildfire
2 Overrun
1 Titanic Ultimatum
3 Smallpox
1 Eldrazi Monument
Raging Goblins stand in for 1/1 Goblin goblin tokens, and trained orggs stand for 6/6 Orgg tokens, because it seems to me the kind of thing that a horde of goblins might have for a pet.
Cards were chosen to be thematic. For example, I imagine goblins can easily start wildfires, spread diseases, overrun some unfortunates, or find a dangerous magical artifact that they bring charging into battle with them.
(Yeah, Murderous Redcap is a decision-making card, but I would just have it always target the survivors, because it's too cool not to include.)
a) is playable solo
b) scales up to four players, and
c) doesn't let the players rest easy.
6 Zombie Giant tokens
2 Cemetery Reaper
1 Death Baron
2 Grixis Slavedriver
6 Infectious Horror
1 Noxious Ghoul
2 Null Champion *
4 Rotting Rats
2 Sewn-Eye Drake
1 Soulless One
1 Undead Warchief
2 Vedalken Ghoul
1 Vulturous Zombie
1 Coat of Arms
1 Cover of Darkness
1 Endless Ranks of the Dead
1 Grave Pact
1 Grave Peril
1 Insurrection
1 Living Death
1 Plague Wind
1 Temporal Extortion
1 Soulquake
3 Syphon Flesh
* Since the horde is assumed to have unlimited mana, Null Champions level up to maximum right away.
It's okay so far, but too many games are decided in the first two or three rounds after the horde begins flipping cards while playing with only one deck. If they get something ridiculous early on, or two many tokens, it doesn't matter how well your first three turns went; conversely, if the horde whiffs its first or second play, it becomes very easy to stabilise to the point that not even something stupid like Coat of Arms or Insurrection can turn the tide in the zombies' favour. Any suggestions for cards that can break a staunch line of defense but won't unbalance a game too early?
Also, any suggestions on more scalable cards (eg. Rotting Rats, Syphon Flesh) would be great, since two or more decks working together just destroy the horde, thanks mainly to the high life total. My original list had Inferno and Breath of Malfagor, but they randomly ended single-player games far too often. Maybe I should try to track down more copies of Soulquake, since that's pretty much perfect for the kind of effect I'm after.
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
Click here and check out my Formerly Pauper Cube.
check out my EDH and Pauper EDH decks here
3 Bad Moon
2 Bog Raiders
1 Cemetary Reaper
1 Cover of Darkness
1 Death Baron
1 Death Pits of Rath
2 Delirium Skeins
1 Endless Ranks of the Dead
2 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Forsaken Wastes
1 Grave Titan
2 Gristle Grinner
2 Grixis Slavedriver
3 Infectious Horror
2 Nested Ghoul
1 Noxious Ghoul
1 Null Champion
1 Plague Wind
2 Soulless One
2 Unbreathing Horde
2 Undead Warchief
4 Viscera Dragger
5 3/3 Golem (zombie-looking Phyrexia ones)
45 2/2 Zombie
10 5/5 Zombie Giant
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Gratuitous Violence (zombies are known to be very violent)
Time Reversal (sure they aren't known to go back in time, but I take this as them reanimating to wreck havoc once again)
That's all I can remember off of the top of my head, but here are some classes for the heroes I've thought of. My idea is to treat this like a board game where you have multiple classes to choose from. This way you can have a different game each time as you'll have different classes participating all the time.
Tor Wauki - Sniper (targeted removal such as burn, pingers, and kill spells that can hit black creatures)
Mikaeus, the Lunarch - Cleric (human deck that has lots of support magic like Mikaeus' ability, equipment, and aura's)
Riku of Two Reflections - Wizard (take your pick... card draw, burn, pump spells... I'm thinking few creatures and lots of attack and support magic to replicate)
Fumiko the Lowblood or Lovisa Coldeyes - Warrior (lots of big guys that are meant to either attack or defend against the horde. Fumiko is obviously for the defensive while Lovisa is for the offensive. Equipment sub-theme is what I also think for this deck)
Kiku, Night's Flower - Assassin (does what black does best - kill opponents creatures. Any kind of killing effect that can hit black creatures is what this is all about. Deathtouch aplenty)
Ragnar - Supporter/beastmaster (lots of aura's and other supportive magic. This also boasts animal creatures to back up the support [animals to make him a beastmaster is just for my personal flavour])
Kaysa - Swarm (lots of smaller green creatures that get mean when put alongside her effect. Cheap and quick, it's all about getting a quick defense or offense of little guys [your choice based on how you want to design it])
Lady Evangela - Walls (this is all about getting a rock-solid defense going. These three colours often have some of the best walls, hence why I went with esper. The white portion also has a lot of the prevent damage creatures like Atalya, Samite Master)
That's all I've thought of for now. Obviously some of these are not the optimal choices (I'm doing these for flavour of fitting their decks first). I also held myself to humans/humanoids for the generals.
I have been working on a weatherlight vs phyrexia one ever since I saw this....