I will say that they did a decent job of getting many tribes more colorful options. Can't bash 'em for that. We weren't going to get an Esper merfolk legend or a Gruul warrior-shaman.
And I also dislike every deck have a sol ring,that means a 10 years old kid can just own one of the most broken thing in the format and be like "omg turn 2 chameleon colossus next turn I can juss swing u for 8!"
I am really tired of all the Sol Ring Hipsters. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
I'm happy with the decks in general and am glad that I preordered all five when they were doing the "buy 4 get the 5th free" deal. But I also feel there were some missed opportunities.
I fully expected wedge trilands and enemy-colored refuges. Command Tower is really good, obviously, but these would've been useful too.
Too many of the new cards are either group hug effects or relatively unexciting high casting cost creatures. Would've liked to see at least one new utility creature in each color.
I never deluded myself into thinking they'd reprint duals, force of will, wasteland, etc. and I was pretty happy to see many of the reprints (Solemn Simulacrum, Angel of Despair in particular).
But there could've been a few better reprints. Why is Brainstorm included? Fire/Ice? Good cards, sure, but not particularly good in the format.
Like many, I would've liked to see something like Akroma's Memorial or Doubling Season, since those cards are only expensive because of edh. But, more selfishly, I would've liked to see more green staples since I don't own very many green cards. Eternal Witness is a nice surprise though.
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EDH: UBR Sedris, the Traitor King BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain RG Radha, Heir to Keld
the precons were the biggest tease ever. waste of time, energy and excitement for me. the amount of ground they could have covered with creative design is ridiculous. instead of cool new generals we get jank (except for about 2 decent guys that i wouldnt play in the first place)? instead of awesome new artifacts we get that squirrel cannon garbage? the new cards are all pretty bad (minus like 4-5), and as for reprints...each deck has like 2 decent reprints at most.
maybe its just me, but im extremely let down by this and feel it could have been done much better. lazy design on their behalf to cash on on the new big thing. not even new artwork can get me to pick these up.
the only card that i am happy about is the new karmic justice. it alone dosent save a set though.
I am quite satisfied with the commander precons. Even so, if I were unappreciative and greedy, my complaints would go something along the lines of:
-More well-designed new utility cards. I really like chaos warp and soul snare, and I find myself wanting more.
-More artifacts. Only two new artifacts, that's a little depressing. Oh well, we're not particularly starved of powerful artifacts for EDH from the regular printed sets after all.
Nobody hates Homeward Path for its effect. They hate it for its cost.
run stripe mine and wasteland, seriously every deck has cards that give it problems and im pretty okay with steal creature decks having a slightly harder time. These decks dont become awful or unplayable, they just have a slightly harder time
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And I also dislike every deck have a sol ring,that means a 10 years old kid can just own one of the most broken thing in the format and be like "omg turn 2 chameleon colossus next turn I can juss swing u for 8!"
Woa son, firstly, what are you doing playing with 10 year olds? I've never played with anyone below a teenager, and my playgroup is all 21+.
Secondly, your elitist attitude is pretty crappy. Cards like Sol Ring are staples and the only benefit gained by not reprinting them for Wizards is... none. Sol Ring is up at $20 on SCG right now, and it's because of EDH (I know because when I started playing EDH I picked one up for 8 or so). They aren't on the market as much because people are actually playing them.
the precons were the biggest tease ever. waste of time, energy and excitement for me. the amount of ground they could have covered with creative design is ridiculous. instead of cool new generals we get jank (except for about 2 decent guys that i wouldnt play in the first place)? instead of awesome new artifacts we get that squirrel cannon garbage? the new cards are all pretty bad (minus like 4-5), and as for reprints...each deck has like 2 decent reprints at most.
maybe its just me, but im extremely let down by this and feel it could have been done much better. lazy design on their behalf to cash on on the new big thing. not even new artwork can get me to pick these up.
the only card that i am happy about is the new karmic justice. it alone dosent save a set though.
It's just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long, the grasshopper kept burying acorns for the winter, while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched TV. But then the winter came and the grasshopper died and the octopus ate all his acorns. And also he got a racecar. Is any of this getting through to you?
I'm happy with the decks in general and am glad that I preordered all five when they were doing the "buy 4 get the 5th free" deal. But I also feel there were some missed opportunities.
I fully expected wedge trilands and enemy-colored refuges. Command Tower is really good, obviously, but these would've been useful too.
Too many of the new cards are either group hug effects or relatively unexciting high casting cost creatures. Would've liked to see at least one new utility creature in each color.
I never deluded myself into thinking they'd reprint duals, force of will, wasteland, etc. and I was pretty happy to see many of the reprints (Solemn Simulacrum, Angel of Despair in particular).
But there could've been a few better reprints. Why is Brainstorm included? Fire/Ice? Good cards, sure, but not particularly good in the format.
Like many, I would've liked to see something like Akroma's Memorial or Doubling Season, since those cards are only expensive because of edh. But, more selfishly, I would've liked to see more green staples since I don't own very many green cards. Eternal Witness is a nice surprise though.
I share this sentiment. Overall I like what they did but do feel that some of the reprints they chose were odd.
I'm guessing that they withheld the Wedge Colored Tri-lands for a future set but why not reprint stuff like Lightning Angel? That for me was the biggest miss. It's not like it is a high dollar card or anything but would have been perfect for the Political Puppets deck.
In addition, I would have also liked to see more reprints with new art. I think Commander is a good opportunity to "update" the art on a lot of the older cards.
Also, there are too many "fat monsters" and not enough ultility creatures like Stonehewer Giant and Dwarven Miner for my liking but that just my subjective tastes.
Regardless, I'm hoping they'll release future Commander sets on a yearly basis.
the precons were the biggest tease ever. waste of time, energy and excitement for me. the amount of ground they could have covered with creative design is ridiculous. instead of cool new generals we get jank (except for about 2 decent guys that i wouldnt play in the first place)? instead of awesome new artifacts we get that squirrel cannon garbage? the new cards are all pretty bad (minus like 4-5), and as for reprints...each deck has like 2 decent reprints at most.
maybe its just me, but im extremely let down by this and feel it could have been done much better. lazy design on their behalf to cash on on the new big thing. not even new artwork can get me to pick these up.
the only card that i am happy about is the new karmic justice. it alone dosent save a set though.
QQ more? seriously, what were you expecting? wizard's wasn't going to print a bunch of broken cards and insane reprints. yeah, sorry you didn't get a metric ☺☺☺☺ ton of legacy staples for 30 bucks.
and the majority of the generals are playable and in some instances better than there previous wedge counter part.
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I think it was wise in retrospect not to add the wedge trilands. Many legacy decks and modern(overextended) would want more than one if good and create a uneven demand especially blue one for RUG and BUG. Solid product and wait for trilands and wedge charms in future sets!
I agree with Tariel being pretty lame. Especially with the whole "random" factor, she feels supremely underpowered for her mana cost. I mean, you could very likely end up using her and just getting a sakura tribe elder. If they wanted to keep it random, I feel like she should have been cheaper.
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My Decks
Commander WG Rhys Tokens WGU Bant Control RUG Animar Combo UBR Bolas Goodstuff
the precons were the biggest tease ever. waste of time, energy and excitement for me. the amount of ground they could have covered with creative design is ridiculous. instead of cool new generals we get jank (except for about 2 decent guys that i wouldnt play in the first place)? instead of awesome new artifacts we get that squirrel cannon garbage? the new cards are all pretty bad (minus like 4-5), and as for reprints...each deck has like 2 decent reprints at most.
maybe its just me, but im extremely let down by this and feel it could have been done much better. lazy design on their behalf to cash on on the new big thing. not even new artwork can get me to pick these up.
the only card that i am happy about is the new karmic justice. it alone dosent save a set though.
I do mostly agree with you on the generals. As far as excitement over power level goes, it goes Damia, Rikku, Animar, Karador, Mimeoplasm, maybe Ghave, and no one I know really seems to care about the WRU or WRB ones (mostly because having to run both R and W in a deck over the other options is a pretty big disadvantage).
By my count, of the new non-legendary cards, 13 of them could have spots in my decks. Your mileage may vary, but there are certainly some powerful and interesting cards here.
run stripe mine and wasteland, seriously every deck has cards that give it problems and im pretty okay with steal creature decks having a slightly harder time. These decks dont become awful or unplayable, they just have a slightly harder time
It is cute that you say you are disappointed about the lack of the Doubling Season reprint, presumably because of the price of the card, and then recommend people use a $45+ card in their deck.
I like these decks. They are a good starting point for new players and add some sweet new cards for us vets. Win/win.
Something like Scythe Scepter could have helped make lifegain a more viable strategy in B/W had it been designed to allow YOU to discard as well. I was really hoping they would print a few lifegain support cards. They did not.
Creature - Specter (R)
Flying
Whenever Scythe Specter deals combat damage to a player, each opponent discards a card. Each player who discarded a card with the highest converted mana cost among cards discarded this way loses life equal to that converted mana cost.
4/4
I do mostly agree with you on the generals. As far as excitement over power level goes, it goes Damia, Rikku, Animar, Karador, Mimeoplasm, maybe Ghave, and no one I know really seems to care about the WRU or WRB ones (mostly because having to run both R and W in a deck over the other options is a pretty big disadvantage).
By my count, of the new non-legendary cards, 13 of them could have spots in my decks. Your mileage may vary, but there are certainly some powerful and interesting cards here.
my only issue with those selections is that a lot of them are not that hard to find, really cheap or not really staples. sol ring was a gift to those who pick up a deck (not needed in some builds), and greaves isnt needed in most builds. the only time i have ever included the boots is if i needed a 99th card. i mean hey....i guess these were made to get people into the format and not for people who are already established. dosent change the fact that a lot of the generals are duds.
I'm dissappointed that after spoiling karador first, his deck has no synergy with him... it's a token deck...
Why do people keep saying this? Have they even read the decklist? Yes, the deck has a token theme, but is also has a significant sacrifice theme. This works will with the token side, but it also works well with the fairly large "guys that can kill themselves for some effect and be brought back with Karador" theme. All the guys with ETB or death abilities are supposed to be sacrificed to the guys with sac abilities and then brought back with Karador. (Or sacced to themselves, for things like Yavimaya Elder.) The deck has a nice blended recursion/token/counters theme that works well with two commanders that at first don't have a whole lot to do with each other. I'm not sure what Karador wants more than "Relatively inexpensive guys that give you reasonably good value when played out of the yard over and over", and the deck is packed with that stuff. A card like Fertilid is a (relative) all-star for either commander; the deck is actually pretty slickly built that way.
Judging from this thread, the biggest problem is that WotC selected "whiny douchebags" as their target audience of this set. I think everyone here is hoping they won't make that mistake again!
The problem with defining [EDH] by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
my only issue with those selections is that a lot of them are not that hard to find, really cheap or not really staples. sol ring was a gift to those who pick up a deck (not needed in some builds), and greaves isnt needed in most builds.
I would agree... while it's fun to see some of these reprints (like Mom) in new frame and in some cases, new art... if you're not sold on the new cards there is little interest to buy other than to "make sure you get a Command Tower and Sol Ring." I didn't expect them to build 100% awesome decks with Legacy staples... but I did want to buy them for more than a handful of cards. The new cards are "speculatory" in value. While Ghave might BE a $10 general... I certainly don't see him as such and it'll be hard to see where he shakes out after the sets have been gobbled up and he's never reprinted.
@tedv... I agree that many people had some unrealistic demands... but it's also VERY hard to tell what the exclusive cards with be valued at in a year. For all we know people are going to be scrambling and paying top dollar for a copy of Mimeoplasm because they sold out everywhere. Right NOW he seems like a $5-10 rare... but is it an "investment" or just a "cool card?"
I would agree... while it's fun to see some of these reprints (like Mom) in new frame and in some cases, new art... if you're not sold on the new cards there is little interest to buy other than to "make sure you get a Command Tower and Sol Ring." I didn't expect them to build 100% awesome decks with Legacy staples... but I did want to buy them for more than a handful of cards. The new cards are "speculatory" in value. While Ghave might BE a $10 general... I certainly don't see him as such and it'll be hard to see where he shakes out after the sets have been gobbled up and he's never reprinted.
@tedv... I agree that many people had some unrealistic demands... but it's also VERY hard to tell what the exclusive cards with be valued at in a year. For all we know people are going to be scrambling and paying top dollar for a copy of Mimeoplasm because they sold out everywhere. Right NOW he seems like a $5-10 rare... but is it an "investment" or just a "cool card?"
I'm probably going to buy all 5 because of the Generals, just so I can have all 15 and their oversized counterparts. I'm guessing in the future they will probably be around $4 or 5+ for each general and his counterpart. That I believe makes up half the value.
To the topic of whinny players. Wasteland and Force of Will were definitely whims from wanna be legacy players and they can keep dreaming. The people that cried about getting briberied or stuff stolen got their wish. People can't seem to get this is a pre-con which is a "Starter" product. There's enough value in these to warrent buying them, especially if you are new. $30 for a instant EDH can't be beat, with 3 generals for 3 different play styles. This decks aren't going to be hard to change up.
However, I do believe they should of printed some more casual cards that players want. I.e Doubling Season. I believe if they printed those cards that only have casual value I think they would of sold a lot more, but I'm not sure if they print those in demand cards up they would raise MSRP or not.
Judging from this thread, the biggest problem is that WotC selected "whiny douchebags" as their target audience of this set. I think everyone here is hoping they won't make that mistake again!
Ahhahahahha. I need to sig this quote. +1 for you sir.
i think the majority of people don't understand the purpose behind pre-constructed decks in general, in any set. The idea is to give people an introduction to the set, showing some basic synergies and compliments, but allowing for people to be creative on top of it. There's a reason huge powerhouses like Ulamog etc. AREN'T included in pre-constructed decks. Same idea goes for something like doubling season, demonic tutor (power houses from an EDH perspective, the doubling season being particularly powerful in several of the pre-cons).
They want the community of players to come up with how these decks should be improved... not provide you with every single piece to make it an awesome deck. In addition, they want the building blocks of these decks to be able to used in many other decks, builds, color combinations etc. as well. That is why you don't see a ton of wedge color cards... because they can only be used in 2 different color bases (wedge, and wubrg).
In addition people, especially early on in this thread forget what EDH was created to be in the first place. WoTC now wishes to keep some of its basic traditions in a package that is intended to expose new people to the format: Casual, multiplayer, political, are words that describe what a new player should be learning from these decks. Group hug effects WORK for this.
These decks are not supposed to provide support to 1v1, nor are they intended to be geared towards T1 competitive players. Certainly some components will be helpful to those players but thats not the target audience.
I think the best "miss" that i have read is NumotFlame's land-base discussion. I completely agree that you really shouldn't give new players an introduction to commander by gimping their land base. At the same time you definitely don't want to give them all the tools they need to make the perfect tri-color mana base, but at least give them more room. A few more sub-par two-color lands or mirage fetches would have been appropriate.
EDH:
Currently Piloting:
Dama, Sage of Stone | Karador, Ghost Chieftan | Sigarda, Host of Herons | Elbrus, the Binding Blade / Withengar Unbound | Grand Arbiter Augustin IV | Genju of the Realm | Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
Flusterstorm, Riddlekeeper, Sewer Nemesis, Chaos Warp, Magmatic Force, Stranglehold, Hornet Queen, Scavenging Ooze, and Acorn Catapult could almost have been in "normal" sets.
-Riddlekeeper, Sewer Nemesis, and Scavenging Ooze in particular could all fit in a graveyard based set. ... maybe preview cards for Innistrad?
-Flusterstorm, Chaos Warp, Stranglehold, and Scavenging Ooze could potentially have high demand for other formats since they have otherwise fairly unique effects.
Ruhan of the Fomori, Kaalia of the Vast, and Tariel, Reckoner of Souls are all a little disappointing if WotC doesn't make more legends in those colors.
-Ruhan is an interesting design, but not not for a commander in a multiplayer game because it is a mostly vanilla creature but is often going to make everyone hate you. Zedruu the Greathearted is wonky, but provides something unique that can be built around. RWU also needs a legend to build an artifact/equipment deck around.
- Kaalia provides an interesting build around option, but WRB also needs a more aggro oriented lord with abilities like Fervor and Fervent Charge.
-Tariel is powerful with some selective graveyard hate (Shred Memory, Withered Wretch, or Faerie Macabre rather than Bojuka Bog which wipes completely), but otherwise the randomness is going to be seen as too big of a drawback. There are a lot of ways that could have allowed you to choose the card while still making it fit in red. For example, some combination of haste/enters tapped and attacking, exile/sacrifice at the next end step, must attack its owner/planeswalker he or she controls, etc.
I'm seeing a lot of people complaining about these precon decks for the wrong reasons, and not enough people praising them. Sure, there could always have been more cool things to stuff into the decks, but this product is still excellent quality. New players get a cheap introduction to EDH right out of the box, and there are plenty of interesting new cards for veterans.
Already, there have been multiple decklists in this forum (and plenty of hype) for Kaalia, Animar, Riku, Zedruu, The Mimeoplasm, and Damia. People are even starting to embrace Ghave, who was seen as jank at first glance. If you think Ruhan is bad, then go build Zur.
I honestly balked at the idea that people thought cards like Wasteland and FoW could possibly be reprinted in these. Really?
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(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
I am really tired of all the Sol Ring Hipsters. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
I fully expected wedge trilands and enemy-colored refuges. Command Tower is really good, obviously, but these would've been useful too.
Too many of the new cards are either group hug effects or relatively unexciting high casting cost creatures. Would've liked to see at least one new utility creature in each color.
I never deluded myself into thinking they'd reprint duals, force of will, wasteland, etc. and I was pretty happy to see many of the reprints (Solemn Simulacrum, Angel of Despair in particular).
But there could've been a few better reprints. Why is Brainstorm included? Fire/Ice? Good cards, sure, but not particularly good in the format.
Like many, I would've liked to see something like Akroma's Memorial or Doubling Season, since those cards are only expensive because of edh. But, more selfishly, I would've liked to see more green staples since I don't own very many green cards. Eternal Witness is a nice surprise though.
EDH:
UBR Sedris, the Traitor King
BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain
RG Radha, Heir to Keld
maybe its just me, but im extremely let down by this and feel it could have been done much better. lazy design on their behalf to cash on on the new big thing. not even new artwork can get me to pick these up.
the only card that i am happy about is the new karmic justice. it alone dosent save a set though.
-More well-designed new utility cards. I really like chaos warp and soul snare, and I find myself wanting more.
-More artifacts. Only two new artifacts, that's a little depressing. Oh well, we're not particularly starved of powerful artifacts for EDH from the regular printed sets after all.
run stripe mine and wasteland, seriously every deck has cards that give it problems and im pretty okay with steal creature decks having a slightly harder time. These decks dont become awful or unplayable, they just have a slightly harder time
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Woa son, firstly, what are you doing playing with 10 year olds? I've never played with anyone below a teenager, and my playgroup is all 21+.
Secondly, your elitist attitude is pretty crappy. Cards like Sol Ring are staples and the only benefit gained by not reprinting them for Wizards is... none. Sol Ring is up at $20 on SCG right now, and it's because of EDH (I know because when I started playing EDH I picked one up for 8 or so). They aren't on the market as much because people are actually playing them.
(Multiplayer)
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of Jund
WUBSharuum the Hegemon
(American 1v1)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking Grave
WUGDerevi
I guess Sol Ring, Grave Pact, Solemn Simulacrum, Eternal Witness, Lightning Greaves, Oblivion Stone, and Fact or Fiction (among others), is "like 2 decent reprints at most."
I share this sentiment. Overall I like what they did but do feel that some of the reprints they chose were odd.
I'm guessing that they withheld the Wedge Colored Tri-lands for a future set but why not reprint stuff like Lightning Angel? That for me was the biggest miss. It's not like it is a high dollar card or anything but would have been perfect for the Political Puppets deck.
In addition, I would have also liked to see more reprints with new art. I think Commander is a good opportunity to "update" the art on a lot of the older cards.
Also, there are too many "fat monsters" and not enough ultility creatures like Stonehewer Giant and Dwarven Miner for my liking but that just my subjective tastes.
Regardless, I'm hoping they'll release future Commander sets on a yearly basis.
S
My Trade Binder...come take a look!
-Red and white still have almost NO way to draw cards or tutor, and the new RW general was a joke in my opinion.
-Card quality varied a LOT. When they spoiled sol ring I thought the lists would be reasonably tuned, but a lot of the cards just seemed meh.
However, I REALLY liked the majority of the generals. I liked more of the generals than I disliked even! So overall I'd say the release was a success!
QQ more? seriously, what were you expecting? wizard's wasn't going to print a bunch of broken cards and insane reprints. yeah, sorry you didn't get a metric ☺☺☺☺ ton of legacy staples for 30 bucks.
and the majority of the generals are playable and in some instances better than there previous wedge counter part.
The EDH stax primer
When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
My Decks
WG Rhys Tokens
WGU Bant Control
RUG Animar Combo
UBR Bolas Goodstuff
I do mostly agree with you on the generals. As far as excitement over power level goes, it goes Damia, Rikku, Animar, Karador, Mimeoplasm, maybe Ghave, and no one I know really seems to care about the WRU or WRB ones (mostly because having to run both R and W in a deck over the other options is a pretty big disadvantage).
By my count, of the new non-legendary cards, 13 of them could have spots in my decks. Your mileage may vary, but there are certainly some powerful and interesting cards here.
As far as reprints go - all the decks have Greaves and Sol Rings, so there's already way more than two. They also all have a set of signets and a set of karoos. On a deck by deck basis, here's what I see as far as good reprints go (things that would likely make a tuned version of the deck):
Mirror Mastery - Deadwood Treefolk, Fierce Empath, Simic Sky Swallower, Krosan Tusker, Artisan of Kozilek, Garruk Wildspeaker, Amillary Sphere, Brainstorm, Fire//Ice, Electrolyze, Prophetic Bolt, Hull Breach, Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, Explosive Vegetation
Devour for Power - Nezumi Graverobber, Fleshbag Marauder, Eternal Witness, Solemn Simulacrum, Mulldrifter, Acidic Slime, Wrexial, the Risen Deep, Butcher of Malakir, Avatar of Woe, Artisan of Kozilek, Oblivion Stone, Fact or Fiction, Grave Pact, Sign in Blood, Cultivate, Buried Alive, Living Death, Windfall, Syphon Mind, Temple of the False Gods
Heavenly Inferno - Duergar Hedge-Mage, Anger, Amillary Sphere, Darksteel Ingot, Path to Exile, Terminate, Orim's Thunder, Mortify, Return to Dust, Syphon Mind, Diabolic Tutor, Akroma's Vengeance, Bojuka Bog
Political Puppets - Jotun Grunt, Wall of Omens, Azorius Guildmage, Flametongue Kavu, Brion Stoutarm, Dominus of Fealty, Amillary Sphere, Darksteel Ingot, Dreamstone Hedron, Felwar Stone, Brainstorm, Oblation, Repulse, Reins of Power, Trade Secrets, Insurrection, Austere Command
Counter Punch - Sakura-Tribe Elder, Yavimaya Elder, Shriekmaw, Skullclamp, Darksteel Ingot, Necrogenesis, Attrition, Aura Shards, Mortify, Cultivate, Harmonize, Temple of the False Gods
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
It is cute that you say you are disappointed about the lack of the Doubling Season reprint, presumably because of the price of the card, and then recommend people use a $45+ card in their deck.
I like these decks. They are a good starting point for new players and add some sweet new cards for us vets. Win/win.
Creature - Specter (R)
Flying
Whenever Scythe Specter deals combat damage to a player, each opponent discards a card. Each player who discarded a card with the highest converted mana cost among cards discarded this way loses life equal to that converted mana cost.
4/4
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
my only issue with those selections is that a lot of them are not that hard to find, really cheap or not really staples. sol ring was a gift to those who pick up a deck (not needed in some builds), and greaves isnt needed in most builds. the only time i have ever included the boots is if i needed a 99th card. i mean hey....i guess these were made to get people into the format and not for people who are already established. dosent change the fact that a lot of the generals are duds.
Don't flame bait.
I would agree... while it's fun to see some of these reprints (like Mom) in new frame and in some cases, new art... if you're not sold on the new cards there is little interest to buy other than to "make sure you get a Command Tower and Sol Ring." I didn't expect them to build 100% awesome decks with Legacy staples... but I did want to buy them for more than a handful of cards. The new cards are "speculatory" in value. While Ghave might BE a $10 general... I certainly don't see him as such and it'll be hard to see where he shakes out after the sets have been gobbled up and he's never reprinted.
@tedv... I agree that many people had some unrealistic demands... but it's also VERY hard to tell what the exclusive cards with be valued at in a year. For all we know people are going to be scrambling and paying top dollar for a copy of Mimeoplasm because they sold out everywhere. Right NOW he seems like a $5-10 rare... but is it an "investment" or just a "cool card?"
I'm probably going to buy all 5 because of the Generals, just so I can have all 15 and their oversized counterparts. I'm guessing in the future they will probably be around $4 or 5+ for each general and his counterpart. That I believe makes up half the value.
To the topic of whinny players. Wasteland and Force of Will were definitely whims from wanna be legacy players and they can keep dreaming. The people that cried about getting briberied or stuff stolen got their wish. People can't seem to get this is a pre-con which is a "Starter" product. There's enough value in these to warrent buying them, especially if you are new. $30 for a instant EDH can't be beat, with 3 generals for 3 different play styles. This decks aren't going to be hard to change up.
However, I do believe they should of printed some more casual cards that players want. I.e Doubling Season. I believe if they printed those cards that only have casual value I think they would of sold a lot more, but I'm not sure if they print those in demand cards up they would raise MSRP or not.
Ahhahahahha. I need to sig this quote. +1 for you sir.
i think the majority of people don't understand the purpose behind pre-constructed decks in general, in any set. The idea is to give people an introduction to the set, showing some basic synergies and compliments, but allowing for people to be creative on top of it. There's a reason huge powerhouses like Ulamog etc. AREN'T included in pre-constructed decks. Same idea goes for something like doubling season, demonic tutor (power houses from an EDH perspective, the doubling season being particularly powerful in several of the pre-cons).
They want the community of players to come up with how these decks should be improved... not provide you with every single piece to make it an awesome deck. In addition, they want the building blocks of these decks to be able to used in many other decks, builds, color combinations etc. as well. That is why you don't see a ton of wedge color cards... because they can only be used in 2 different color bases (wedge, and wubrg).
In addition people, especially early on in this thread forget what EDH was created to be in the first place. WoTC now wishes to keep some of its basic traditions in a package that is intended to expose new people to the format: Casual, multiplayer, political, are words that describe what a new player should be learning from these decks. Group hug effects WORK for this.
These decks are not supposed to provide support to 1v1, nor are they intended to be geared towards T1 competitive players. Certainly some components will be helpful to those players but thats not the target audience.
I think the best "miss" that i have read is NumotFlame's land-base discussion. I completely agree that you really shouldn't give new players an introduction to commander by gimping their land base. At the same time you definitely don't want to give them all the tools they need to make the perfect tri-color mana base, but at least give them more room. A few more sub-par two-color lands or mirage fetches would have been appropriate.
EDH:
Currently Piloting:
Dama, Sage of Stone | Karador, Ghost Chieftan | Sigarda, Host of Herons | Elbrus, the Binding Blade / Withengar Unbound | Grand Arbiter Augustin IV | Genju of the Realm | Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
-Riddlekeeper, Sewer Nemesis, and Scavenging Ooze in particular could all fit in a graveyard based set. ... maybe preview cards for Innistrad?
-Flusterstorm, Chaos Warp, Stranglehold, and Scavenging Ooze could potentially have high demand for other formats since they have otherwise fairly unique effects.
Ruhan of the Fomori, Kaalia of the Vast, and Tariel, Reckoner of Souls are all a little disappointing if WotC doesn't make more legends in those colors.
-Ruhan is an interesting design, but not not for a commander in a multiplayer game because it is a mostly vanilla creature but is often going to make everyone hate you. Zedruu the Greathearted is wonky, but provides something unique that can be built around. RWU also needs a legend to build an artifact/equipment deck around.
- Kaalia provides an interesting build around option, but WRB also needs a more aggro oriented lord with abilities like Fervor and Fervent Charge.
-Tariel is powerful with some selective graveyard hate (Shred Memory, Withered Wretch, or Faerie Macabre rather than Bojuka Bog which wipes completely), but otherwise the randomness is going to be seen as too big of a drawback. There are a lot of ways that could have allowed you to choose the card while still making it fit in red. For example, some combination of haste/enters tapped and attacking, exile/sacrifice at the next end step, must attack its owner/planeswalker he or she controls, etc.
Already, there have been multiple decklists in this forum (and plenty of hype) for Kaalia, Animar, Riku, Zedruu, The Mimeoplasm, and Damia. People are even starting to embrace Ghave, who was seen as jank at first glance. If you think Ruhan is bad, then go build Zur.
I honestly balked at the idea that people thought cards like Wasteland and FoW could possibly be reprinted in these. Really?