@Avatar of Woe: agreed, he isn't the greatest creature, however, I run him because I need more reusable, creature based, spot removal (I play thrax). Since he is one of the few that do not have that terrible line "non-black" in his text, I find him very useful.
@Draining Whelk: I have had a great deal of success with this card. Whether I am bouncing it with Erratic Portal, recurring it with Phyrexian Reclamation, or quick dropping it with Sneak Attack, I have always enjoyed seeing it in my hand.
My submissions:
1: Vesuva. I understand the purpose of this card, and I would definitely use it in some decks, however, in my main deck, I have enough land removal to deal with Cradle, Ruins, etc., and too often I found that i was just targeting a dual or something. The fact that you have to lose a land drop in order to kill something hurts too (wasteland and strip mine give you the option of choosing).
2: Rhystic Study. I really do like this card, but I have found it so hit or miss. Some games I just draw like a mad man, while others, all it does is slow people down a wee bit (and sometimes not at all when you consider how much green ramps). It is staying in my 99, but whenever I come across it, I look at it and wonder whether or not it should be something else.
2: Rhystic Study. I really do like this card, but I have found it so hit or miss. Some games I just draw like a mad man, while others, all it does is slow people down a wee bit (and sometimes not at all when you consider how much green ramps). It is staying in my 99, but whenever I come across it, I look at it and wonder whether or not it should be something else.
How did I forget this card? I used it in my blue EDH decks and immediatly took it out every time. People's mana gets so out of control so quickly that unless you drop it turn 2-3, it does almost nothing.
I once farted during the final match for prizes at an FNM. It was a tense moment, everything was quiet, control vs control, I was about to mana leak, thought about it.. and farted. Then mana leaked.
Affinity for Lands artifact freatures from Mirrodin: Wah, wah, wah. A lack luster artifact (and) creature. For free, fifth++ turn? Wow. Wouldn't you rather draw a card more playible to the rest of your deck on turn 3? I would. At best, it's a chump blocker.
Orichi Leafcaller You're searing for a 1/1 snake that makes your deck work 1000% faster/more efficiently. Seriously? A 1/1 snake. How many cards in your deck work on getting it/keeping it out. We'll see how that works out for you while I'm actually building instead of searching and maintaining one thing like a madperson, so you can begin to build.
Library of Leng: I play a lot of discard in both of my good edh/commander decks. My meta thinks it's cute to put one of these cats out. Lol, thanks. I didn't intend for you to keep drawing the same cards over and over and not being able to play them when I was making these decks. Somehow, being the great player I am, I'm sure I'll find a way around this. Of wait, you screwed yourself by using the Library? Again? Oh.
Dissipate: I'll admit I was tricked at first as well. Dissipate told me it would prevent recursion and act as graveyard hate and I believed it. Turns out that the 5% of the time it isn't Cancel your other graveyard hate that is actually good will get the job done.
Oblivion Ring: So you're minimizing my current threat level to everyone else at the cost of me getting a massive boost later on when there's a sweeper? Thank you. Or maybe people have just been playing it wrong and should always be using it on their own stuff, then it might actually be good.
Artifact Lands: So I have the option of turning my Trinket Mage into a Civic Wayfinder when realistically I'm just going to fetch Top or Sol ring 90% of the time anyways? Booooo.
Does everyone sweep the table constantly in everyone else's groups? We have like five total among four guys. MAX would be eight...only Evacuation and Scourglass seem to pop up...
Affinity for Lands artifact freatures from Mirrodin: Wah, wah, wah. A lack luster artifact (and) creature. For free, fifth++ turn? Wow. Wouldn't you rather draw a card more playible to the rest of your deck on turn 3? I would. At best, it's a chump blocker.
Orichi Leafcaller You're searing for a 1/1 snake that makes your deck work 1000% faster/more efficiently. Seriously? A 1/1 snake. How many cards in your deck work on getting it/keeping it out. We'll see how that works out for you while I'm actually building instead of searching and maintaining one thing like a madperson, so you can begin to build.
Library of Leng: I play a lot of discard in both of my good edh/commander decks. My meta thinks it's cute to put one of these cats out. Lol, thanks. I didn't intend for you to keep drawing the same cards over and over and not being able to play them when I was making these decks. Somehow, being the great player I am, I'm sure I'll find a way around this. Of wait, you screwed yourself by playing the Library? Again? Oh.
-No idea what that first paragraph means
-The leafcaller is .. okay i guess? Good mana fixing i suppose, but i've never even seen it on this forum before.
Dissipate: I'll admit I was tricked at first as well. Dissipate told me it would prevent recursion and act as graveyard hate and I believed it. Turns out that the 5% of the time it isn't Cancel your other graveyard hate that is actually good will get the job done.
I'm confused. Dissipate is a 3 CC counterspell with the added on ability to stop an annoying spell like Kokusho from recurring, while just using 1 card to do so.
Artifact Lands: So I have the option of turning my Trinket Mage into a Civic Wayfinder when realistically I'm just going to fetch Top or Sol ring 90% of the time anyways? Booooo.
It's the fact of having the option to get the land if you already have said artifacts out. Or say you have a Sol Ring already, but you desperately need another land. Oh look! It's Trinket Mage! He can find me an artifact Island!..but I took it out of my deck..☺☺☺☺.
I once farted during the final match for prizes at an FNM. It was a tense moment, everything was quiet, control vs control, I was about to mana leak, thought about it.. and farted. Then mana leaked.
You've clearly never been mana screwed in Mono-White before. Or any deck that runs Plains.
Hell, I just used it earlier this week as a kill mech via recurring it with Karmic Guide. AFTER cycling it out because I was mana screwed.
On topic: 'Goyf. Its a great 2 drop in other formats, but in EDH you'd rather have the actual 4 mana oldschool 'Gofy over the 2 mana version. You'd rather have Mortivore and its ilk than 'Goyf.
I'm confused. Dissipate is a 3 CC counterspell with the added on ability to stop an annoying spell like Kokusho from recurring, while just using 1 card to do so.
The exile just isn't relevant most of the time, and it's better to just play better counters. There are better options for grave hate.
Considering the theme of this thread is to bring up something that you know most people will disagree with, I can at least respect posters for having the guts to go against the grain and talk about a staple they dislike, even if I don't agree with them.
The easy thing to do is to not admit to disliking a popular card and instead flame the people who have an opinion which deviates from the norm. That doesn't impress me much.
It's not that i "didn't have the guts" to post something, i really wasn't sure if people were being sarcastic or not. If you're curious then here you go:
You've clearly never been mana screwed in Mono-White before. Or any deck that runs Plains.
Hell, I just used it earlier this week as a kill mech via recurring it with Karmic Guide. AFTER cycling it out because I was mana screwed.
On topic: 'Goyf. Its a great 2 drop in other formats, but in EDH you'd rather have the actual 4 mana oldschool 'Gofy over the 2 mana version. You'd rather have Mortivore and its ilk than 'Goyf.
If you're mana screwed, wouldn't you rather just have a plains?
Sure, 2 mana isn't a lot, but the upkeep is really pricey. By the time you can actually use it, you probably don't need it. Sure, it's durable, but the sheer mana investment (2 to cycle, 5 to return, 7 to play) is way too much to make it worthwhile imo. I'd rather have a plains, white has tons of good cheap creatures it would probably rather play than have to pay 2 for the plains it needed just for the possibility of a durable creature/land tutor way down the line. Using it multiple times for tutor ties up almost all your mana. Using it as a repeatable blocker REALLY ties up all your mana. It's not as though white accelerates very well as it is.
Plus there are some way better guys who ought to be on the list...first in line being pulsemage advocate...
If you're mana screwed, wouldn't you rather just have a plains?
Its a shuffle mech.
It fetches Duals/Shocks.
It puts a creature in your graveyard.
It can be recurred.
It can be used at the end of an opponent's turn.
Getting rid of it is more difficult than getting rid of Land Tax.
Sure, 2 mana isn't a lot, but the upkeep is really pricey. By the time you can actually use it, you probably don't need it. Sure, it's durable, but the sheer mana investment (2 to cycle, 5 to return, 7 to play) is way too much to make it worthwhile imo. I'd rather have a plains, white has tons of good cheap creatures it would probably rather play than have to pay 2 for the plains it needed just for the possibility of a durable creature/land tutor way down the line. Using it multiple times for tutor ties up almost all your mana. Using it as a repeatable blocker REALLY ties up all your mana. It's not as though white accelerates very well as it is.
...You are playing Eternal Dragon wrong.
Plus there are some way better guys who ought to be on the list...first in line being pulsemage advocate...
You seriously think Pulsemage deserves a slot here, when it's ability is crap?
Seriously, unless they are running Dredge or you have Sword of Mind and Body out, Pulsemage has no value. You give them CA, while all you get is a creature. I'd rather have Emeria/Debtor's Knell over Pulsemage. Those at least don't run the risk of screwing me over.
Ohh wow - I didn't know my mentioning of Top was going to cause such an outcry... please remember the context that I put it in -----> with no/few shuffle effects.
If you are playing it as a bad ponder: Stop. That's all I said ;p
I still stand by my other choices, Mountain & Greaves!
@Weed, the first cards are actually from Darksteel. Tangle Golem, Spire Golem, ect..
In my meta, Orichi Leafcaller is in almost every green deck with another color. In Commander, as it is. Maybe after a few more posts in edh theads, maybe you'll see more mentions of the leafcaller:)
And the LoL isn't used constantly in the manner in which I made it seem. I did so in an attempt to be humorous. It is, however, how I feel when anyone uses the Library to discard into their library.
Anyway, my pick for this thread is not something I think it outright terrible so much as overrated: Lightning Greaves.
I was playing a game last night on Cockatrice with a control deck that is bent on gaining card advantage over people(Peasant Garza Zol, if you were wondering.) and was questioned when I started using Shattering Pulse on the multiple Howling Mines on the field rather than hit the Greaves the Sliver player had. I just didn't care about it.
@Weed, the first cards are actually from Darksteel. Tangle Golem, Spire Golem, ect..
In my meta, Orichi Leafcaller is in almost every green deck with another color. In Commander, as it is. Maybe after a few more posts in edh theads, maybe you'll see more mentions of the leafcaller:)
And the LoL isn't used constantly in the manner in which I made it seem. I did so in an attempt to be humorous. It is, however, how I feel when anyone uses the Library to discard into their library.
@Mr. Down, I know, right? (About the first thing)
I don't think Leafcaller has ever been rated, much less overrated. I've also never seen any of the golems played in EDH. Your playgroup may not be representative of the community on this one.
Private Mod Note
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
....not everyone follows the bannings in their group.
I like RFG whatever I can.
This guy has it right.
We don't follow the banned list in our playgroup (outside of power) because we don't do silly, absurd things or play infinite combos, because in all honesty, that's retarded. If you play to win and don't care about fun in a format made for casual, fun play, then you're doing it wrong, and go back to normal Constructed formats.
Also, thanks whoever said Thawing Glaciers is overrated. I find the card to be outstandingly bad. It's even more fun when I'm playing blue with constant bounce against a guy playing said land. Sure gets them mad.
I once farted during the final match for prizes at an FNM. It was a tense moment, everything was quiet, control vs control, I was about to mana leak, thought about it.. and farted. Then mana leaked.
(Dang. I kinda wanted to say T.Glaciers, too.....and I've used it in one deck, in combo with Seedborn/Oracle/Cobra. I was disappointed.)
I will say that I want to take it out of Vig and use it in Geth with Rings and Amulet of Vigor, though. I have to imagine it'll be a dynamo. I guess it depends on the deck (like all of these cards).
I once farted during the final match for prizes at an FNM. It was a tense moment, everything was quiet, control vs control, I was about to mana leak, thought about it.. and farted. Then mana leaked.
I generally agree with the Nev disk comment, however I run it in my Arcum deck because its easy to untap and I rarely have to wait to use it, if I do, its usually because Forge is out and its indestructible anyway.
Same, I also like it when I have Lattace out... and Forge... woops wiped your lands too... my bad.
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"Heterological" is heterological if and only if "heterological" is autological
[Legacy]
ANT
Imperial Painter
(Dang. I kinda wanted to say T.Glaciers, too.....and I've used it in one deck, in combo with Seedborn/Oracle/Cobra. I was disappointed.)
I will say that I want to take it out of Vig and use it in Geth with Rings and Amulet of Vigor, though. I have to imagine it'll be a dynamo. I guess it depends on the deck (like all of these cards).
No, that's pretty much why Thawing Glaciers is used - if you can relatively consistently combo it with cards like Rings of Brighthearth or Deserted Temple, Glaciers is amazing.
It's also fine for really slow decks that don't have a lot of other ways to generate card advantage.
Yeah, I have one copy of Glaciers. It floated around my decks, from my mono-green deck, to my mono-blue deck, finally finding its place in my mono-red deck as yet another way to ensure I have lots of lots of lands. The other two decks had better methods and/or didn't care about getting more than sixteen lands past turn sixteen.
@Draining Whelk: I have had a great deal of success with this card. Whether I am bouncing it with Erratic Portal, recurring it with Phyrexian Reclamation, or quick dropping it with Sneak Attack, I have always enjoyed seeing it in my hand.
My submissions:
1: Vesuva. I understand the purpose of this card, and I would definitely use it in some decks, however, in my main deck, I have enough land removal to deal with Cradle, Ruins, etc., and too often I found that i was just targeting a dual or something. The fact that you have to lose a land drop in order to kill something hurts too (wasteland and strip mine give you the option of choosing).
2: Rhystic Study. I really do like this card, but I have found it so hit or miss. Some games I just draw like a mad man, while others, all it does is slow people down a wee bit (and sometimes not at all when you consider how much green ramps). It is staying in my 99, but whenever I come across it, I look at it and wonder whether or not it should be something else.
How did I forget this card? I used it in my blue EDH decks and immediatly took it out every time. People's mana gets so out of control so quickly that unless you drop it turn 2-3, it does almost nothing.
Orichi Leafcaller You're searing for a 1/1 snake that makes your deck work 1000% faster/more efficiently. Seriously? A 1/1 snake. How many cards in your deck work on getting it/keeping it out. We'll see how that works out for you while I'm actually building instead of searching and maintaining one thing like a madperson, so you can begin to build.
Library of Leng: I play a lot of discard in both of my good edh/commander decks. My meta thinks it's cute to put one of these cats out. Lol, thanks. I didn't intend for you to keep drawing the same cards over and over and not being able to play them when I was making these decks. Somehow, being the great player I am, I'm sure I'll find a way around this. Of wait, you screwed yourself by using the Library? Again? Oh.
Putting the sexy in Science Fiction!
gamertag: filthychocolate
Oblivion Ring: So you're minimizing my current threat level to everyone else at the cost of me getting a massive boost later on when there's a sweeper? Thank you. Or maybe people have just been playing it wrong and should always be using it on their own stuff, then it might actually be good.
Artifact Lands: So I have the option of turning my Trinket Mage into a Civic Wayfinder when realistically I'm just going to fetch Top or Sol ring 90% of the time anyways? Booooo.
Does everyone sweep the table constantly in everyone else's groups? We have like five total among four guys. MAX would be eight...only Evacuation and Scourglass seem to pop up...
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
-No idea what that first paragraph means
-The leafcaller is .. okay i guess? Good mana fixing i suppose, but i've never even seen it on this forum before.
-Library of Leng is a may ability.
I'm confused. Dissipate is a 3 CC counterspell with the added on ability to stop an annoying spell like Kokusho from recurring, while just using 1 card to do so.
It's the fact of having the option to get the land if you already have said artifacts out. Or say you have a Sol Ring already, but you desperately need another land. Oh look! It's Trinket Mage! He can find me an artifact Island!..but I took it out of my deck..☺☺☺☺.
You've clearly never been mana screwed in Mono-White before. Or any deck that runs Plains.
Hell, I just used it earlier this week as a kill mech via recurring it with Karmic Guide. AFTER cycling it out because I was mana screwed.
On topic: 'Goyf. Its a great 2 drop in other formats, but in EDH you'd rather have the actual 4 mana oldschool 'Gofy over the 2 mana version. You'd rather have Mortivore and its ilk than 'Goyf.
Driving Stick with Isochron Scepter.
Trinkets and Treasure: An Artificer's Toolbox.
Proc Drops: Playing with One Drops.
Deck Primer: Toshiro Umezawa
Also, Kokusho is banned.
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
I like RFG whatever I can.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
It's not that i "didn't have the guts" to post something, i really wasn't sure if people were being sarcastic or not. If you're curious then here you go:
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
If you're mana screwed, wouldn't you rather just have a plains?
Sure, 2 mana isn't a lot, but the upkeep is really pricey. By the time you can actually use it, you probably don't need it. Sure, it's durable, but the sheer mana investment (2 to cycle, 5 to return, 7 to play) is way too much to make it worthwhile imo. I'd rather have a plains, white has tons of good cheap creatures it would probably rather play than have to pay 2 for the plains it needed just for the possibility of a durable creature/land tutor way down the line. Using it multiple times for tutor ties up almost all your mana. Using it as a repeatable blocker REALLY ties up all your mana. It's not as though white accelerates very well as it is.
Plus there are some way better guys who ought to be on the list...first in line being pulsemage advocate...
WUB Merieke Ri Berit BUW
GWU Phelddagrif 1 2 3 4 UWG
BR Kaervek the Merciless RB
B Chainer, Dementia Master B
WUB Sen Triplets BUW
BG Sisters of Stone Death GB
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon GRBUW
GWU Angus Mackenzie UWG
R Kumano, Master Yamabushi R
WB Teysa BW
U Higure U
B Geth B
WUBRG Child of Alara 1 2GRBUW
R Zirilan R
U Arcum U
UR Nin RU
BRG Sek'Kuar GRB
U Teferi U
G Melira G
GU Edric UG
BG Glissa GB
Casual
GUB Knacksaw Clique BUG
RWU Sunforger UWR
Followed by Oblivion Ring and Extraplanar Lens.
...You are playing Eternal Dragon wrong.
You seriously think Pulsemage deserves a slot here, when it's ability is crap?
Seriously, unless they are running Dredge or you have Sword of Mind and Body out, Pulsemage has no value. You give them CA, while all you get is a creature. I'd rather have Emeria/Debtor's Knell over Pulsemage. Those at least don't run the risk of screwing me over.
Driving Stick with Isochron Scepter.
Trinkets and Treasure: An Artificer's Toolbox.
Proc Drops: Playing with One Drops.
Deck Primer: Toshiro Umezawa
If you are playing it as a bad ponder: Stop. That's all I said ;p
I still stand by my other choices, Mountain & Greaves!
My Trade Thread!
In my meta, Orichi Leafcaller is in almost every green deck with another color. In Commander, as it is. Maybe after a few more posts in edh theads, maybe you'll see more mentions of the leafcaller:)
And the LoL isn't used constantly in the manner in which I made it seem. I did so in an attempt to be humorous. It is, however, how I feel when anyone uses the Library to discard into their library.
@Mr. Down, I know, right? (About the first thing)
Putting the sexy in Science Fiction!
gamertag: filthychocolate
[/CARD] *gasp!* "ZOMG!" "Aieeeee!!!"
It's not bad but it's almost always mediocre.
Ditto to Nevinyrral's Disk. I no longer run this outside of Mono-Red and Mono-Green.
Thawing Glaciers Maybe this isn't overrated and people know exactly how bad it is. If not: it's bad. Bad and slow.
BRGotta Get or Get GotRB
(Avatar courtesy of Heylookitsamoose)
Ha...ha.
Anyway, my pick for this thread is not something I think it outright terrible so much as overrated: Lightning Greaves.
I was playing a game last night on Cockatrice with a control deck that is bent on gaining card advantage over people(Peasant Garza Zol, if you were wondering.) and was questioned when I started using Shattering Pulse on the multiple Howling Mines on the field rather than hit the Greaves the Sliver player had. I just didn't care about it.
Pauper Cube
I cube, I play EDH, and I can't afford Legacy. The other formats can suck it.
I don't think Leafcaller has ever been rated, much less overrated. I've also never seen any of the golems played in EDH. Your playgroup may not be representative of the community on this one.
This guy has it right.
We don't follow the banned list in our playgroup (outside of power) because we don't do silly, absurd things or play infinite combos, because in all honesty, that's retarded. If you play to win and don't care about fun in a format made for casual, fun play, then you're doing it wrong, and go back to normal Constructed formats.
Also, thanks whoever said Thawing Glaciers is overrated. I find the card to be outstandingly bad. It's even more fun when I'm playing blue with constant bounce against a guy playing said land. Sure gets them mad.
I will say that I want to take it out of Vig and use it in Geth with Rings and Amulet of Vigor, though. I have to imagine it'll be a dynamo. I guess it depends on the deck (like all of these cards).
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
/brofist
Same, I also like it when I have Lattace out... and Forge... woops wiped your lands too... my bad.
[Legacy]
ANT
Imperial Painter
No, that's pretty much why Thawing Glaciers is used - if you can relatively consistently combo it with cards like Rings of Brighthearth or Deserted Temple, Glaciers is amazing.
It's also fine for really slow decks that don't have a lot of other ways to generate card advantage.
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W