I figured that since I have the majority of the deck list already in my Trade List on the forum. And that I am really not revealing any hidden secrets by posting the list here. That I might as well go ahead and post the deck list here and see if I can't get some ideas on how to improve the deck or what not. So here goes the list (Explanation of the deck list to come afterwards):
the Primary win condition for this deck is Rafiq. In an ideal scenario the following is possible:
Turn 1: Plains ==> Mother of Runes
Turn 2: Forest ==> Azorius Signet
Turn 3: Island ==> Tap all 3 Lands, and the Azorius Signet ==> Rafiq
Turn 4: any colored land ==> Tap all 4 lands, and the Signet ==> Finest Hour, Attack with Rafiq (protecting it with Mother of Runes if necessary) for a total of 10 damage first attack round. Attack again for a total of 14 damage. This makes 24 damage, taking one opponent out.
That of course is the most ideal and unlikely scenario that this deck is capable of.
Beyond that the deck is capable of the Long Game, but isn't entirely reliant on it. Other Strategies include playing the control deck. Which allows the deck to sit back and develop a winning board position and then swoop in for the kill.
Notation regarding Budget While I am willing to spend some amount of money on this deck to get things like the mana base. I would rather keep the budget as low as possible for things outside of the mana base where possible. So all advice regarding the deck should try to keep that in mind.
Some of your cheap utility guys seem more than a little weak, in duels I could see the cheap pressure working, but if you play multiplayer my guess is that they will not do terribly well... especially aven squire,silhana ledgewalker, deft duelist and sigiled paladin. Can I suggest Mistmeadow witch? She is surpisingly effective
Okay, I have taken your advice, removed a bunch of the cheap beatsticks, also removed the lower quality of the exalted creatures. In their place I put a few more useful creatures and spells that should help stabilize the deck when it comes to dealing with opponents and what not. I am not sure if I picked the optimal set of stuff. But it should be a good start.
Jenara doesn't really fit into this deck I don't think, as she would really just be a beatstick, and I think I have better Beatsticks than her in this deck already. Beyond the Beatstick role, she really is just a cheap 3/3 with flying. And I have better cards to run than her at the current time in this deck.
As far as Trygon Predator, I do like it, the only two things I could theoretically see myself removing for it would be the Soltari Visionary, or the Qasali Pridemage. I happen to like the Qasali Pridemage in this deck because it does both the job of detering Artifacts and Enchantments, while at the same time acting as an enhancement to attacks. So I would prefer to keep the Qasali Pridemage. The only other thing I could see myself dropping is the Soltari Visionary which is both smaller on the butt end, and doesn't get rid of enchantments. HOWEVER it does have a more relevant form of evasion. So it is a tough call.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
I'd say that the ability to destroy artifacts and not get hit by Molten Disaster and kin does put it above the Visionary. On Pridemage, I do see him doing well with the exalted theme, but I've always preferred Wickerbough Elder and Indrik Stomphowler (and now Acidic Slime) as you don't lose your card when you get rid of one of theres. For a similar deterrant/disruption effect, I've always run Aura of Silence.
I'd say that the ability to destroy artifacts and not get hit by Molten Disaster and kin does put it above the Visionary. On Pridemage, I do see him doing well with the exalted theme, but I've always preferred Wickerbough Elder and Indrik Stomphowler (and now Acidic Slime) as you don't lose your card when you get rid of one of theres. For a similar deterrant/disruption effect, I've always run Aura of Silence.
I still sort of prefer the Pridemage due to his exalted, which is an overarching theme of this deck. Yes, the fact that I lose him when I use his ability is discouraging. However, ultimately he leads to a path of victory unless an opponent plays an artifact that HAS to be dealt with then and there.
Though I do like the idea of Aura of Silence. I will have to consider that one, as it is definitely a more proactive method of dealing with enchantments than the one I had initially planned on using.
Thinking on it, considering how your deck does seem to be based on general damage, I just added Spirit en-Dal to my Uril deck for testing. Repeatable unblockability seems worthwhile, but it does interact poorly with Lightning Greaves and it's less than useful the turn it's drawn.
Mind's Eye is a lot easier to destroy, a lot more likely to be aggressively targetted, and takes a mana investment. Generally, I'd still prefer the Mind's Eye, but there are considerations for the Honden. Actually, I'd probably just play both of them.
Thinking on it, considering how your deck does seem to be based on general damage, I just added Spirit en-Dal to my Uril deck for testing. Repeatable unblockability seems worthwhile, but it does interact poorly with Lightning Greaves and it's less than useful the turn it's drawn.
The ability to make Rafiq unblockable is indeed tempting. However I also like the ability to give him shroud to prevent him from being targeted by things like Swords to Plowshares, or even worse Condemn. So I think I will probably pass. The cool thing, is that if this deck works the way it is supposed to, with things like Opposition, and Angelic Benediction, then I will have no worries about potential blockers against Rafiq.
Mind's Eye is a lot easier to destroy, a lot more likely to be aggressively targetted, and takes a mana investment. Generally, I'd still prefer the Mind's Eye, but there are considerations for the Honden. Actually, I'd probably just play both of them.
The reason I pretty much tossed Mind's Eye aside when designing this deck, was because Mind's Eye is mana intensive. What I might consider running in the place of both the Eye and the Honden would be Rhystic Study, however I am not sure how well recieved that card would be in my local meta.
@ Swords to Plowshares: I don't plan on using Path to Exile or Swords to Plowshares on Generals TOO often as both of these cards reward players for needing to replay their Generals, and that is something I would rather not have to do. The main reason I went with Path to Exile over Swords to Plowshares is because I already have the Path to Exile. However I do think it might be prudent to eventually upgrade to Swords to Plowshares, as it would seem that that card rewards the player less than the Path to Exile does in EDH.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
I also agree that Acidic Slime could use some consideration.
I'd also take out the 2/2 manlands. Mutavault and Factory don't reallu put out a lot of pressure. I'd put in some filters for their slots. +Flooded Grove +Mystic Gate
Don't worry about doing the "I just did 30 damage in one swing" route. Just try and be consistant and doing as much damage as possible while also not getting blown out by some random spell like Akroma's Vengeance or Condemn (etc.). Hence the "backup" cards like more equipment + tutors. Rafiq has a pretty big target on his head.
I kind of like Noble Hierarch, but wouldn't mind getting rid of her for budget reasons. I could see myself cutting it to run a Loxodon Warhammer, but I really do like the fact that it accelerates both the Mana and the Exalted quite nicely.
I don't know where to fit the Acidic Slime on there, the only place I can figure it would fit is in the place of the Qasali Pridemage, and as I already described I kind of like the card for its exalted factor.
Finally, Flooded Grove, and Mystic Gate are already on the list. I don't know what else to take the Mutavault and Mishra's Factory off the list for other than basic lands.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
I also agree that Acidic Slime could use some consideration.
I'd also take out the 2/2 manlands. Mutavault and Factory don't reallu put out a lot of pressure. I'd put in some filters for their slots. +Flooded Grove +Mystic Gate
Don't worry about doing the "I just did 30 damage in one swing" route. Just try and be consistant and doing as much damage as possible while also not getting blown out by some random spell like Akroma's Vengeance or Condemn (etc.). Hence the "backup" cards like more equipment + tutors. Rafiq has a pretty big target on his head.
Selkie is crazy good with Rafiq, especially if you go the equipment route, and Augury Adept is no slouch either. Same with Ohran Viper. If you drop one of those bad boys turn 3, then Rafiq turn 4, you're getting a couple cards out of the deal. Similarly, most EDH decks are kinda slow, so I'd keep Standstill in there, since you will usually have a decent threat before another player.
Selkie is crazy good with Rafiq, especially if you go the equipment route, and Augury Adept is no slouch either. Same with Ohran Viper. If you drop one of those bad boys turn 3, then Rafiq turn 4, you're getting a couple cards out of the deal. Similarly, most EDH decks are kinda slow, so I'd keep Standstill in there, since you will usually have a decent threat before another player.
As far as going the Equipment route, I wasn't planning on going on an all out equipment route. I did want to take a General damage route, but I do see what you mean about using the Whispersilk Cloak instead of the Neurok Stealthsuit. I just kind of liked the idea of instant speed Shroud effects. Though I don't know about the Swords, or even if I have room for the Swords. I think I can probably cut the Noble Hierarch for the Loxodon Warhammer, but beyond that I am not really sure what else to cut for equipment here.
I like Standstill alot, but I think it might be a tad too focused for this deck. I think I will be running Wargate, if only for the fact that it can drop aura's directly onto Rafiq or other creatures that have shroud already on them. So yeah that seems like a good idea.
Honestly, I'd cut the Auras for Equipment. If Rafiq gets removed with an aura on it, you've lost the aura. Other dudes can pick up swords or whatnot and move to bash face.
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I was pretty excited for Modern.
Not so much anymore.
Honestly, I'd cut the Auras for Equipment. If Rafiq gets removed with an aura on it, you've lost the aura. Other dudes can pick up swords or whatnot and move to bash face.
I see your point, it is a very good point to boot. Hmmm.... I guess I need to cut the Wargate then since there really isn't a point to it without the Aura's?
Also, I kind of found Shield of the Righteous, seems really good in unison with Stoic Angel on the field
I see your point, it is a very good point to boot. Hmmm.... I guess I need to cut the Wargate then since there really isn't a point to it without the Aura's?
Also, I kind of found Shield of the Righteous, seems really good in unison with Stoic Angel on the field
Not necessarily true about Wargate. It's a pretty handy card, all in all, since it tutors for a permanent and puts it right into play. It can fetch Rafiq if he gets condemned, or go snag equipment. It also can fetch other dudes if you want a different kind a beat.
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I was pretty excited for Modern.
Not so much anymore.
Not necessarily true about Wargate. It's a pretty handy card, all in all, since it tutors for a permanent and puts it right into play. It can fetch Rafiq if he gets condemned, or go snag equipment. It also can fetch other dudes if you want a different kind a beat.
fair enough.
Another question, I don't really have a lot of money, but would like to fit either Elspeth, or Ajani into this deck. But don't think I really can. Are they really worth it? And if I do, the only thing I can really think to cut at the moment is Shield of the Righteous
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
I don't like "Ophidian" cards in my EDH decks. I know Hermit Man loves them. -shrug-
An indestructible general is cute, but a lot of the removal for generals involves putting them at the bottom of the library or removing them from the game. Thus, Shield of the Oversoul doesn't help that much (and Rafiq isn't going to be dying all that much in combat, thanks to double strike and probably some equipment).
Rancor is the only aura I see that is worth keeping. Obviously the same problem with indestructibility applies, but for one green, what did you want? haha Anyway, this turns any creature, not just Rafiq, into a total house.
As for Standstill - there is absolutely no reason to run it. Why should you be giving your opponents free cards? Just run some other draw spell.
Another question, I don't really have a lot of money, but would like to fit either Elspeth, or Ajani into this deck. But don't think I really can. Are they really worth it? And if I do, the only thing I can really think to cut at the moment is Shield of the Righteous
I don't like walkers much. I only run Jace because he draws cards (I run Ajani V and Nicol Bolas in my Progenitus deck, but it doesn't have any creatures). I mean, yeah, they do stuff...but you'd rather do better stuff.
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I was pretty excited for Modern.
Not so much anymore.
I do like Elspeth in decks that like general damage, and I think it would work especially well with Rafiq. Even if all you get is an Angelic Blessing out of it, it was probably worth the investment and someone still had to answer it.
I do like Elspeth in decks that like general damage, and I think it would work especially well with Rafiq. Even if all you get is an Angelic Blessing out of it, it was probably worth the investment and someone still had to answer it.
the problem with Elspeth is that it costs over 20 dollars to purchase. I am trying to keep the cards in this deck each under 20 dollars individually. Perhaps one day I will eventually find room for her in this deck. However today is not that day.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
00 Rafiq of the Many
Legendary Creatures:
01 Yosei, the Morning Star
02 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Other Creatures:
03 Trygon Predator
04 Rhox War Monk
05 Murkfiend Liege
06 Stoic Angel
07 Seedborn Muse
08 Glory
09 Genesis
10 Gomazoa
11 Eternal Witness
12 Dauntless Escort
13 Reveillark
14 Qasali Pridemage
15 Mistmeadow Witch
16 Mulldrifter
17 Mystic Snake
18 Draining Whelk
19 Stonehewer Giant
20 Battlegrace Angel
21 Oversoul of Dusk
22 Eternal Dragon
23 Empyrial Archangel
Enchantment - Aura's:
24 Rancor
Enchantments:
25 Finest Hour
26 Opposition
27 Future Sight
28 Sylvan Library
Instants:
29 Condemn
30 Ghostway
31 Swords to Plowshares
32 Counterspell
33 Cryptic Command
34 Desertion
35 Dissipate
36 Hinder
37 Arcane Denial
38 Spelljack
39 Fact or Fiction
40 Opportunity
41 Enlightened Tutor
42 Chord of Calling
43 Decree of Justice
44 Akroma's Vengeance
45 Hallowed Burial
46 Wrath of God
47 Ancestral Vision
48 Wargate
49 Primal Command
Artifact - Equipment:
50 Behemoth Sledge
51 Sword of Light and Shadow
52 Sword of Fire and Ice
53 Loxodon Warhammer
54 Umezawa's Jitte
55 Lightning Greaves
Artifacts:
56 Sensei's Divining Top
57 Azorius Signet
58 Coalition Relic
59 Mana Vault
60 Selesnya Signet
61 Simic Signet
62 Sol Ring
Basic Lands:
63 Snow-Covered Plains
64 Snow-Covered Plains
65 Snow-Covered Plains
66 Snow-Covered Plains
67 Snow-Covered Forest
68 Snow-Covered Forest
69 Snow-Covered Forest
70 Snow-Covered Island
71 Snow-Covered Island
72 Snow-Covered Island
73 Snow-Covered Island
74 Snow-Covered Island
Legendary Lands:
75 Kor Haven
76 Yavimaya Hollow
77 Academy Ruins
78 Eiganjo Castle
79 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
80 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
81 Flagstones of Trokair
82 Breeding Pool
83 Hallowed Fountain
84 Temple Garden
85 Strip Mine
86 Wasteland
87 Tolaria West
88 Treetop Village
89 Nantuko Monastery
90 Vesuva
91 Horizon Canopy
92 Seaside Citadel
93 Flooded Grove
94 Mystic Gate
95 Wooded Bastion
96 Misty Rainforest
97 Windswept Heath
98 Vitu-Ghazi, the City Tree
99 Mouth of Ronom
the Primary win condition for this deck is Rafiq. In an ideal scenario the following is possible:
Turn 1: Plains ==> Mother of Runes
Turn 2: Forest ==> Azorius Signet
Turn 3: Island ==> Tap all 3 Lands, and the Azorius Signet ==> Rafiq
Turn 4: any colored land ==> Tap all 4 lands, and the Signet ==> Finest Hour, Attack with Rafiq (protecting it with Mother of Runes if necessary) for a total of 10 damage first attack round. Attack again for a total of 14 damage. This makes 24 damage, taking one opponent out.
That of course is the most ideal and unlikely scenario that this deck is capable of.
Beyond that the deck is capable of the Long Game, but isn't entirely reliant on it. Other Strategies include playing the control deck. Which allows the deck to sit back and develop a winning board position and then swoop in for the kill.
Notation regarding Budget While I am willing to spend some amount of money on this deck to get things like the mana base. I would rather keep the budget as low as possible for things outside of the mana base where possible. So all advice regarding the deck should try to keep that in mind.
Okay, I have taken your advice, removed a bunch of the cheap beatsticks, also removed the lower quality of the exalted creatures. In their place I put a few more useful creatures and spells that should help stabilize the deck when it comes to dealing with opponents and what not. I am not sure if I picked the optimal set of stuff. But it should be a good start.
-1 Silhana Ledgewalker
-1 Aven Squire
-1 Mistmeadow Skulk
-1 Sigiled Paladin
-1 Deft Duelist
-1 Troll Ascetic
+1 Mistmeadow Witch
+1 Mulldrifter
+1 Seedborn Muse
+1 Spin into Myth
+1 Fact or Fiction
+1 Harmonize
Jenara doesn't really fit into this deck I don't think, as she would really just be a beatstick, and I think I have better Beatsticks than her in this deck already. Beyond the Beatstick role, she really is just a cheap 3/3 with flying. And I have better cards to run than her at the current time in this deck.
As far as Trygon Predator, I do like it, the only two things I could theoretically see myself removing for it would be the Soltari Visionary, or the Qasali Pridemage. I happen to like the Qasali Pridemage in this deck because it does both the job of detering Artifacts and Enchantments, while at the same time acting as an enhancement to attacks. So I would prefer to keep the Qasali Pridemage. The only other thing I could see myself dropping is the Soltari Visionary which is both smaller on the butt end, and doesn't get rid of enchantments. HOWEVER it does have a more relevant form of evasion. So it is a tough call.
I still sort of prefer the Pridemage due to his exalted, which is an overarching theme of this deck. Yes, the fact that I lose him when I use his ability is discouraging. However, ultimately he leads to a path of victory unless an opponent plays an artifact that HAS to be dealt with then and there.
Though I do like the idea of Aura of Silence. I will have to consider that one, as it is definitely a more proactive method of dealing with enchantments than the one I had initially planned on using.
-1 Soltari Visionary
+1 Trygon Predator
also, why no swords to plowshares?
Mind's Eye is a lot easier to destroy, a lot more likely to be aggressively targetted, and takes a mana investment. Generally, I'd still prefer the Mind's Eye, but there are considerations for the Honden. Actually, I'd probably just play both of them.
The ability to make Rafiq unblockable is indeed tempting. However I also like the ability to give him shroud to prevent him from being targeted by things like Swords to Plowshares, or even worse Condemn. So I think I will probably pass. The cool thing, is that if this deck works the way it is supposed to, with things like Opposition, and Angelic Benediction, then I will have no worries about potential blockers against Rafiq.
The reason I pretty much tossed Mind's Eye aside when designing this deck, was because Mind's Eye is mana intensive. What I might consider running in the place of both the Eye and the Honden would be Rhystic Study, however I am not sure how well recieved that card would be in my local meta.
@ Swords to Plowshares: I don't plan on using Path to Exile or Swords to Plowshares on Generals TOO often as both of these cards reward players for needing to replay their Generals, and that is something I would rather not have to do. The main reason I went with Path to Exile over Swords to Plowshares is because I already have the Path to Exile. However I do think it might be prudent to eventually upgrade to Swords to Plowshares, as it would seem that that card rewards the player less than the Path to Exile does in EDH.
-Confiscate +Take Possession (eh, if you even really want a card like this)
-Coldeye Selkie +something (you'll have to decide what direction you want to take this in. Since this is a "card advantage" type card, I'd probably go for Sylvan Library)
-Standstill +Ancestral Vision
-Twilight Shepherd +Wargate/Chord of Calling
-Honden of Seeing Winds +Future Sight
-Angelic Benediction + Primal Command
-Noble Hierarch (unless you make more of an effort here, this needs to go. Hierarch by itself is worthless. Try BOP and other mana elves). +Umezawa's Jitte
I also agree that Acidic Slime could use some consideration.
I'd also take out the 2/2 manlands. Mutavault and Factory don't reallu put out a lot of pressure. I'd put in some filters for their slots. +Flooded Grove +Mystic Gate
Loxodon Warhammer also takes home with Bacon with Rafiq.
Don't worry about doing the "I just did 30 damage in one swing" route. Just try and be consistant and doing as much damage as possible while also not getting blown out by some random spell like Akroma's Vengeance or Condemn (etc.). Hence the "backup" cards like more equipment + tutors. Rafiq has a pretty big target on his head.
Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
I don't know where to fit the Acidic Slime on there, the only place I can figure it would fit is in the place of the Qasali Pridemage, and as I already described I kind of like the card for its exalted factor.
Finally, Flooded Grove, and Mystic Gate are already on the list. I don't know what else to take the Mutavault and Mishra's Factory off the list for other than basic lands.
Selkie is crazy good with Rafiq, especially if you go the equipment route, and Augury Adept is no slouch either. Same with Ohran Viper. If you drop one of those bad boys turn 3, then Rafiq turn 4, you're getting a couple cards out of the deal. Similarly, most EDH decks are kinda slow, so I'd keep Standstill in there, since you will usually have a decent threat before another player.
Going the equipment route means you need Sword of Fire and Ice, Sword of Light and Shadow, and Loxodon Warhammer. Also, if you want an unblockable effect like Neurok Stealthsuit, I'd suggest Whispersilk Cloak in its place. That being said, it's not usually necessary if you suit up with a sword.
Not so much anymore.
As far as going the Equipment route, I wasn't planning on going on an all out equipment route. I did want to take a General damage route, but I do see what you mean about using the Whispersilk Cloak instead of the Neurok Stealthsuit. I just kind of liked the idea of instant speed Shroud effects. Though I don't know about the Swords, or even if I have room for the Swords. I think I can probably cut the Noble Hierarch for the Loxodon Warhammer, but beyond that I am not really sure what else to cut for equipment here.
I like Standstill alot, but I think it might be a tad too focused for this deck. I think I will be running Wargate, if only for the fact that it can drop aura's directly onto Rafiq or other creatures that have shroud already on them. So yeah that seems like a good idea.
Not so much anymore.
I see your point, it is a very good point to boot. Hmmm.... I guess I need to cut the Wargate then since there really isn't a point to it without the Aura's?
Also, I kind of found Shield of the Righteous, seems really good in unison with Stoic Angel on the field
Not necessarily true about Wargate. It's a pretty handy card, all in all, since it tutors for a permanent and puts it right into play. It can fetch Rafiq if he gets condemned, or go snag equipment. It also can fetch other dudes if you want a different kind a beat.
Not so much anymore.
fair enough.
Another question, I don't really have a lot of money, but would like to fit either Elspeth, or Ajani into this deck. But don't think I really can. Are they really worth it? And if I do, the only thing I can really think to cut at the moment is Shield of the Righteous
An indestructible general is cute, but a lot of the removal for generals involves putting them at the bottom of the library or removing them from the game. Thus, Shield of the Oversoul doesn't help that much (and Rafiq isn't going to be dying all that much in combat, thanks to double strike and probably some equipment).
Rancor is the only aura I see that is worth keeping. Obviously the same problem with indestructibility applies, but for one green, what did you want? haha Anyway, this turns any creature, not just Rafiq, into a total house.
As for Standstill - there is absolutely no reason to run it. Why should you be giving your opponents free cards? Just run some other draw spell.
Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
I don't like walkers much. I only run Jace because he draws cards (I run Ajani V and Nicol Bolas in my Progenitus deck, but it doesn't have any creatures). I mean, yeah, they do stuff...but you'd rather do better stuff.
Not so much anymore.
the problem with Elspeth is that it costs over 20 dollars to purchase. I am trying to keep the cards in this deck each under 20 dollars individually. Perhaps one day I will eventually find room for her in this deck. However today is not that day.