Agree with all, but i've recently cutted Tortured Existence, because even if it's awesome theoretically it never worked as we wish here.
It's never made the difference and many time it did almost nothing. My cube doesn't support grave abuse, so we are just happy with Undertaker, which is more flexible while you can discard everything on it, even if it's more fragile.
Existence to me is borderline.
Good point on the more flexible discard for the Undertaker. I agree that sometimes Tortured Existence can be underwhelming, but when it's good - it's really good.
And Vault Skirge has been an artifact flying man most of the times. To me it's even less than borderline.
Don't forget the lifelink; this is what really makes the card shine.
Hey everyone, I put together a pauper cube about a month ago and have been playing with it a lot, my playgroups have loved it so far. I'll post the list later. However there are a couple of slots I'm not sure of.
1. The big green ramp targets. There are usually a few 7-drops in every pauper cube list I've seen but I can't find much of a consensus as to which are best. I'm using Maul Splicer and Oakgnarl Warrior currently. My reasoning for this has been that if you're playing a huge spell ahead of time you kind of want it to stop the beatdown with it. These guys both gum up the ground while still beating down pretty well, and the treefolk does both at the same time. Other considerations are Wirewood Guardian and Havenwood Wurm. I really don't know which are best.
2. I've got Phyrexian War Beast and Vulshok Gauntlets in my artifact section, and have never seen anyone play either card in their deck. I think the amount of bounce in this format makes War Beast seem like a huge liability to people, and that might be true, but I really can't evaluate how good it is since no one plays it. Gauntlets are similar, people look only at the drawback I think, I know there's a ton of upside with this card. Do other people have experience with these cards? If they're bad, what are some of the good replacements?
3. Do people really get use out of the 5-color fixing lands Rupture Spire/Transguild Promenade? I feel like the tempo loss from playing these is huge and could be game-changing, not sure if their upside outweighs that. I might test it anyway since it might encourage the 4+ color control decks that I have not yet seen drafted, to see if it's worth it.
Hey everyone, I put together a pauper cube about a month ago and have been playing with it a lot, my playgroups have loved it so far. I'll post the list later. However there are a couple of slots I'm not sure of.
1. The big green ramp targets. There are usually a few 7-drops in every pauper cube list I've seen but I can't find much of a consensus as to which are best. I'm using Maul Splicer and Oakgnarl Warrior currently. My reasoning for this has been that if you're playing a huge spell ahead of time you kind of want it to stop the beatdown with it. These guys both gum up the ground while still beating down pretty well, and the treefolk does both at the same time. Other considerations are Wirewood Guardian and Havenwood Wurm. I really don't know which are best.
2. I've got Phyrexian War Beast and Vulshok Gauntlets in my artifact section, and have never seen anyone play either card in their deck. I think the amount of bounce in this format makes War Beast seem like a huge liability to people, and that might be true, but I really can't evaluate how good it is since no one plays it. Gauntlets are similar, people look only at the drawback I think, I know there's a ton of upside with this card. Do other people have experience with these cards? If they're bad, what are some of the good replacements?
3. Do people really get use out of the 5-color fixing lands Rupture Spire/Transguild Promenade? I feel like the tempo loss from playing these is huge and could be game-changing, not sure if their upside outweighs that. I might test it anyway since it might encourage the 4+ color control decks that I have not yet seen drafted, to see if it's worth it.
1. Havenwood Wurm is worth it because of Flash. Past that and your other two, you should have four, because Krosan Tusker is also a ramp target in a pinch. That should round it out nicely.
2. Phyrexian Warbeast is better in play than he is on paper. Vulskok Gauntlets with enough mana makes any creature significant. I don't have a lot of play experience but +4/+2 is tough to overlook.
3. The lands are worth it. I've never regretted having them even in my two color decks.
On another note, I posted my Project Here. I also replied to your post there Goblin Pile Shuffler.
If you wanted to look at it abstractly, Rupture Spire / Transguild Promenade are Birds of Paradise without...wings, that can't be played on turn 1.
They both "come into play tapped", and require 1 mana to cast. Would you ever not play a BOP on turn 3 or 4? Granted it can attack with some type of equipment, but usually how often is that?
I personally use both in the cube, and think that they are great, but then again, I don't play any type of Land hate (destruction, bounce) with the exception of Capsize but that's a pretty big mana investment, and most of my drafters don't play it till they have the buyback mana.
Because of the thread about Triskelion for Peasent i started thinking about the Rnaissance Set that was released in Germany and France.
What do you guys think about this set? I see some using Magic Online only sets or special products like Dueldecks so it should not be that big of a stretch to allow this set asw ell.
1. The big green ramp targets. There are usually a few 7-drops in every pauper cube list I've seen but I can't find much of a consensus as to which are best. I'm using Maul Splicer and Oakgnarl Warrior currently. My reasoning for this has been that if you're playing a huge spell ahead of time you kind of want it to stop the beatdown with it. These guys both gum up the ground while still beating down pretty well, and the treefolk does both at the same time. Other considerations are Wirewood Guardian and Havenwood Wurm. I really don't know which are best.
I like the reasoning here. I would definitely add Havenwood Wurm, because the 5/6 body will gum up the ground just as well as Oakgnarl Warrior and the flash means that it can be used as removal.
2. I've got Phyrexian War Beast and Vulshok Gauntlets in my artifact section, and have never seen anyone play either card in their deck. I think the amount of bounce in this format makes War Beast seem like a huge liability to people, and that might be true, but I really can't evaluate how good it is since no one plays it. Gauntlets are similar, people look only at the drawback I think, I know there's a ton of upside with this card. Do other people have experience with these cards? If they're bad, what are some of the good replacements?
War Beast is fairly good. The downside isn't that bad in practice, and sometimes a deck simply needs a fat 3-drop to round out its curve. I've had mild success with it.
The Gauntlets too have had some success, mostly in aggro decks where they can top the curve and make 1-drops into huge threats. Definite niche, though.
3. Do people really get use out of the 5-color fixing lands Rupture Spire/Transguild Promenade? I feel like the tempo loss from playing these is huge and could be game-changing, not sure if their upside outweighs that. I might test it anyway since it might encourage the 4+ color control decks that I have not yet seen drafted, to see if it's worth it.
I play them right now for the 4+ color decks, but that's because those decks are a crowd favorite in my playgroup. There are other options you might consider in their place, although I don't know which lands you currently play with.
I play them right now for the 4+ color decks, but that's because those decks are a crowd favorite in my playgroup. There are other options you might consider in their place, although I don't know which lands you currently play with.
Thanks for all the feedback. My land section is currently as follows:
I might try switching Quicksand for one of the five-color lands and see what that does, since most of the late-game decks that want Quicksand will also have some other use for the land, whether an X-spell, Capsize, Cenn's Enlistment, etc, and trading a land drop in a format that can punish you for it for a little guy is maybe not what we want to be doing. If people start moving on the decks that want the 5-color lands I might try adding the second. We'll see.
I've only seen Haunted Fengraf in play a couple times and it hasn't actually done anything other than make mana. The upside is definitely there but it might not be relevant at all. I'm going to give it a little more time but it's probably the worst of the 5.
It's a fair article. I like Ryan trying to implement fun themes into his cube. However, I cannot agree with this idea of "Having a random Hymn to Tourach in your deck that has nothing to do with emptying your opponent's hand is little more than goofy." No. Random Hymns are 90% blowouts and have destroyed opponents in the past.
I'm not sure what you mean by "brainless cards". Could you elaborate?
@Blue aggro
If Raptor is good, it's a step in the right direction at least.
I actually disagree with that idea, then. I think there's a lot of skill involved in properly playing cards like Flood and Cenn's Enlistment, and bad play has cost players who were using those cards. Especially Flood, when people didn't know whether to keep up mana for tapping down creatures or laying down other creatures.
Of course, mileage may vary, so I don't fault you for cutting cards for some perceived way they play. But right now I'm more worried about decks that are brainless to draft and play, like burn, than individual cards.
Black's sweet of aggressive but painful creatures is helping mostly the RB decks. I don't see that as much of a problem, although I would be open to replacing one or two with other black cards.
I like the idea of supporting Storm, and combo in cubes, but I just don't see it working well in Pauper without having to add some card that'd just be bad in any other archetype tbh. Add in that there's only 3 decent Storm cards at common, and it just seems like something thats probably not really worth the effort.
On the topic of Ryan's SCG article:
Whatever else I may think about his cube choices, it's always nice to see our format get more publicity. I personally don't like storm, metalcraft, or infect as pauper cube sub-archetypes, but he gets props for trying to think holistically about cube design instead of just jamming pauper power cards in there. And 5-color control shouldn't be too easy? Is that a real concern for other cubists? I run plenty of fixing and 5cc hasn't been particularly overbearing for me; 2-color decks of any stripe usually take the day regardless.
On the topic of Ryan's SCG article:
Whatever else I may think about his cube choices, it's always nice to see our format get more publicity. I personally don't like storm, metalcraft, or infect as pauper cube sub-archetypes, but he gets props for trying to think holistically about cube design instead of just jamming pauper power cards in there. And 5-color control shouldn't be too easy? Is that a real concern for other cubists? I run plenty of fixing and 5cc hasn't been particularly overbearing for me; 2-color decks of any stripe usually take the day regardless.
I dislike the label 5 colour control, because that's not really what the deck is. When built correctly, (4-)5 colour midrange (more or less fixingandvalue.dec) is a very powerful deck, but I totally disagree that it's overly powerful. The other midrange decks such as WB and GR are often stronger if built correctly because they don't have to spend so many slots on non-land fixing, this is not rare cube when your manabase can be stretched to do whatever you want it to.
Storm and artifacts are cool subthemes IMO but a bit too hard to pull off in pauper. I'm personally making a combo cube for that purpose and trying to keep that kind of card out of the pauper cube, where almost every card is at least potentially useful in most decks of its colour (barring aggro creatures).
I'll second the request for discussion on the ratio of removal spells to their targets. This is an important topic for ALL cube designers, pauper or otherwise. Finding the sweet spot is hard, and I would welcome any insights you might be able to share.
I was most interested in the multicolor cards because the enemy combinations were sorely lacking in my cube, we got passable ones but I'm most interested in Frilled Oculus
Frilled Oculus 1U
1/3
Activated Ability 1G: CARDNAMe gets +2/+2 until end of turn. This ability can only be activated once.
Darkthicket Wolf from Innistrad has showed this is a great ability and I love it on the defensive body that being blue gives it, and the pump is very cheap as well, probably a better blue green card than 2/1 flash evolve.
I can't really stand the comparison to Darkthicket Wolf. One of these is a monocolor card, the other really isn't. And on a less substantial note, I'm honestly not a fan of "multicolor" cards that have more of a chance of being played in one color than the other. Hybrid is fine; legit multicolor is fine; "multicolor" usually gets a pass from me.
On top of that, I disagree that it's better than the Evolve, Flash dude.
Like I said everywhere, Darkthicket Wolf is good because of it's 2 power. Whenever it attacks people have to respect the pump and it gets in for 2. If Frilled Oculus does the same trick it only gets in for 1, which is not good. Being multicoloured means that it needs to be a card that I would play it over pretty much everything in mono, which this fails to do. Really not good at all for cube.
I am arguing for this card as a multicolored card, these types of activated ability cards are easier than straight up multicolored but slightly more difficult than monocolored but that's where the reward is.
It's a primarily blue card though, so it's value comes from playing a more defensive role. I've been a fan of these early defensive cards for blue in cube such as Halimar Wavewatch and Frostburn Weird, with the Weird being a breakout hit in the Return to Ravnica limited format. Gumming up the ground in this way to play the larger 3 power fliers later in the game is a suitable strategy for blue decks. Not to mention being a cheap mana sink to leave up the possibility of a counterspell or a 3/5 blocker very early on. I firmly believe this card is a role player and much stronger and nuanced than it appears on first glance.
Edit: Maybe I'm going to increase the size of my cube to 390, because actually we play with 13 card boosters and this way up to 10 players could play the cube.
-My blue section is full of counters, which need Instant speed. The option of Temporal Spring to bounce non-creatures, doesn't seem to be an good enough advantage for me to play it if I don't even play Time Ebb/Forced Retreat, while cc2 2/2 flyers are always nice.
Temporal spring is good in the same way Vindicate is, to a smaller degree. Vindicate is not good because it can kill a creature for 1WB, but because it can do that or hit a land or even hit something like a signet if need be.
@Heimer: if you go 405 you get a full 9th man set of packs. I am looking to that to allow my multicolor to grow proportionally, and I can add like 5 cards per color
Don't forget the lifelink; this is what really makes the card shine.
Sig courtesy of Disappointing Signet Inc.
My Cubes:
Goblin Pile Shuffler's 360 Card Pauper Cube - updated 1/4/2014
Goblin Pile Shuffler's 270 Card One-Drop Cube - updated 1/4/2014
1. The big green ramp targets. There are usually a few 7-drops in every pauper cube list I've seen but I can't find much of a consensus as to which are best. I'm using Maul Splicer and Oakgnarl Warrior currently. My reasoning for this has been that if you're playing a huge spell ahead of time you kind of want it to stop the beatdown with it. These guys both gum up the ground while still beating down pretty well, and the treefolk does both at the same time. Other considerations are Wirewood Guardian and Havenwood Wurm. I really don't know which are best.
2. I've got Phyrexian War Beast and Vulshok Gauntlets in my artifact section, and have never seen anyone play either card in their deck. I think the amount of bounce in this format makes War Beast seem like a huge liability to people, and that might be true, but I really can't evaluate how good it is since no one plays it. Gauntlets are similar, people look only at the drawback I think, I know there's a ton of upside with this card. Do other people have experience with these cards? If they're bad, what are some of the good replacements?
3. Do people really get use out of the 5-color fixing lands Rupture Spire/Transguild Promenade? I feel like the tempo loss from playing these is huge and could be game-changing, not sure if their upside outweighs that. I might test it anyway since it might encourage the 4+ color control decks that I have not yet seen drafted, to see if it's worth it.
Level 1 Judge
1. Havenwood Wurm is worth it because of Flash. Past that and your other two, you should have four, because Krosan Tusker is also a ramp target in a pinch. That should round it out nicely.
2. Phyrexian Warbeast is better in play than he is on paper. Vulskok Gauntlets with enough mana makes any creature significant. I don't have a lot of play experience but +4/+2 is tough to overlook.
3. The lands are worth it. I've never regretted having them even in my two color decks.
On another note, I posted my Project Here. I also replied to your post there Goblin Pile Shuffler.
They both "come into play tapped", and require 1 mana to cast. Would you ever not play a BOP on turn 3 or 4? Granted it can attack with some type of equipment, but usually how often is that?
I personally use both in the cube, and think that they are great, but then again, I don't play any type of Land hate (destruction, bounce) with the exception of Capsize but that's a pretty big mana investment, and most of my drafters don't play it till they have the buyback mana.
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Sorted for only commons...
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That's awesome to hear! =D
I like the reasoning here. I would definitely add Havenwood Wurm, because the 5/6 body will gum up the ground just as well as Oakgnarl Warrior and the flash means that it can be used as removal.
War Beast is fairly good. The downside isn't that bad in practice, and sometimes a deck simply needs a fat 3-drop to round out its curve. I've had mild success with it.
The Gauntlets too have had some success, mostly in aggro decks where they can top the curve and make 1-drops into huge threats. Definite niche, though.
I play them right now for the 4+ color decks, but that's because those decks are a crowd favorite in my playgroup. There are other options you might consider in their place, although I don't know which lands you currently play with.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Thanks for all the feedback. My land section is currently as follows:
10 Guildgates
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Desert
1 Quicksand
1 Haunted Fengraf
I might try switching Quicksand for one of the five-color lands and see what that does, since most of the late-game decks that want Quicksand will also have some other use for the land, whether an X-spell, Capsize, Cenn's Enlistment, etc, and trading a land drop in a format that can punish you for it for a little guy is maybe not what we want to be doing. If people start moving on the decks that want the 5-color lands I might try adding the second. We'll see.
Level 1 Judge
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Level 1 Judge
I'm not sure what you mean by "brainless cards". Could you elaborate?
@Blue aggro
If Raptor is good, it's a step in the right direction at least.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Of course, mileage may vary, so I don't fault you for cutting cards for some perceived way they play. But right now I'm more worried about decks that are brainless to draft and play, like burn, than individual cards.
Black's sweet of aggressive but painful creatures is helping mostly the RB decks. I don't see that as much of a problem, although I would be open to replacing one or two with other black cards.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Level 1 Judge
I'm not a fan. You should convince me otherwise here.
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Whatever else I may think about his cube choices, it's always nice to see our format get more publicity. I personally don't like storm, metalcraft, or infect as pauper cube sub-archetypes, but he gets props for trying to think holistically about cube design instead of just jamming pauper power cards in there. And 5-color control shouldn't be too easy? Is that a real concern for other cubists? I run plenty of fixing and 5cc hasn't been particularly overbearing for me; 2-color decks of any stripe usually take the day regardless.
I dislike the label 5 colour control, because that's not really what the deck is. When built correctly, (4-)5 colour midrange (more or less fixingandvalue.dec) is a very powerful deck, but I totally disagree that it's overly powerful. The other midrange decks such as WB and GR are often stronger if built correctly because they don't have to spend so many slots on non-land fixing, this is not rare cube when your manabase can be stretched to do whatever you want it to.
Storm and artifacts are cool subthemes IMO but a bit too hard to pull off in pauper. I'm personally making a combo cube for that purpose and trying to keep that kind of card out of the pauper cube, where almost every card is at least potentially useful in most decks of its colour (barring aggro creatures).
Draft it on Cubetutor!
I was most interested in the multicolor cards because the enemy combinations were sorely lacking in my cube, we got passable ones but I'm most interested in Frilled Oculus
Frilled Oculus 1U
1/3
Activated Ability 1G: CARDNAMe gets +2/+2 until end of turn. This ability can only be activated once.
Darkthicket Wolf from Innistrad has showed this is a great ability and I love it on the defensive body that being blue gives it, and the pump is very cheap as well, probably a better blue green card than 2/1 flash evolve.
On top of that, I disagree that it's better than the Evolve, Flash dude.
It's a primarily blue card though, so it's value comes from playing a more defensive role. I've been a fan of these early defensive cards for blue in cube such as Halimar Wavewatch and Frostburn Weird, with the Weird being a breakout hit in the Return to Ravnica limited format. Gumming up the ground in this way to play the larger 3 power fliers later in the game is a suitable strategy for blue decks. Not to mention being a cheap mana sink to leave up the possibility of a counterspell or a 3/5 blocker very early on. I firmly believe this card is a role player and much stronger and nuanced than it appears on first glance.
Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Cut Silkbind Faerie over Silver Drake, Rakdos Shredfreak over Goblin Deathraiders, Centaur Healer over Sigil Blessing, and Temporal Spring over Gaea's Skyfolk. Keep Deft Duelist.
These are the changes that I would make.
Most likely Fire at Will. It's worse than a lot of red burn, but is far better than Double Cleave.
Temporal spring is good in the same way Vindicate is, to a smaller degree. Vindicate is not good because it can kill a creature for 1WB, but because it can do that or hit a land or even hit something like a signet if need be.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
Loose Change Pauper Cube-cast
Pauper Cube Article #1
Pauper Cube Article #2
Personal Enjoyment Cube