Weird. I played double digit holiday cube drafts and never once saw it.
TBH it wasn't until I did about 20-some odd simulations of the original MTGO cube list that I noticed that Plated Geopede and Phantasmal Image were there.
I'm considering beefing up the big red/Wildfire deck in my 400-card cube. That means I need one or two more red sweepers, and one or two more mana rocks.
Knight of the Reliquary > Wake. Do you have multiple ways in a coherent deck to abuse ten mana? Probably not, and any deck running enough to benefit from that won't really want the Anthem effect. It's swell with Decree and Entreat, but I just don't think it's good enough in a vacuum (or, before someone says it, in any context either) and there are at least ten or twelve G/W cards I would run before Wake. I honestly find it does nothing substantial compared to most 5 mana creatures, or is hilariously win-more (which, to be fair, leads to awesome plays). That said, for pure fun, it's up there with the best cards out there.
I have issue with a lot of what you said here.
- You talk of no way in 'coherent decks' do you have ways to abuse 10 mana. X-Spells (not just burn spells, but token makers and draw spells, too)? Casting 2 large creatures? Casting a large threat and still having countermagic mana up? These are all things that happen when you untap with Wake; VERY seldom is the untap and only cast a 5-drop or so.
- Midrange decks love anthem effects, too. So do control decks that use tokens as a way to buy time/win the game (think Elspeths, Sorin, Lingering Souls, the aforementioned Decree/Entreat). Oh, and you get double mana too in order to keep casting your 5+ drops that midrange/control decks are wont to play.
- Name the 10 or 12 cards that are better. I'll spot you 5-6: Pridemage, Dryad Militant, Kitchen Finks, Knight of the Reliquary (since you believe this anyway), Gaddock Teeg (a card I've come to find as important to battle midrange/control). Let's say Smiter too, since he is definitely better in a more aggressive section.
I consider my Cube to be pretty aggro-supported and lower on the CMC scale while supporting lots of deck archetypes (considering that I'm unpowered as well), so unless you are just pushing the crap out of aggro in all your color combinations, I think Wake is a very nice nod to the mid- and control decks without 'ruining' the section.
I think most Cubes should be running Wake for sure. But, more than that, I'm glad you brought up Teeg because we also feel he is a pretty important puzzle piece. And I was worried that it might be another card that is unique to my brother and I and our neighbors who play.
I had thought of adding at least 1 sword to my unpowered budget cube. I was wanting to improve my equipment in my deck. How does Umezawa's Jitte compare to the 3 Scars of Mirrdon Block Swords? I have a playset of Jitte's lying around. I was thinking of adding 1 Jitte to my cube. The best equipment I currently have in the cube is Skullclamp.
Jitte only really becomes broken in the creature on creature battles, while the green swords are pretty useful in the other scenarios as well. The RW is way less useful for nonaggressive decks than the other 2 Mirrodin Swords.
Most people seem to vote Sword of Body and Mind as being the best of the 3. If I were to add swords I can't imagine only adding 1 to the cube. Add all 5 of swords or only add the cheaper 3. I don't feel like adding only 1 to the cube. Umezawa's Jitte perform it's own function a like Skullclamp. The Jitte seems to be lowered powered than the 5 Swords. I read the discussion on Loxodon Warhammer. The numbers listed suggested Jitte is used in about 75% of decks. So about 1 out of 4 people will not use it. I have mostly lower powered equipment in my cube. I have Skullclamp, Loxodon Warhammer, Grafted Wargear, Sword of Vengeance, Livewire Lash, Butcher's Cleaver and Bonesplitter.
Jitte
Clamp
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5 Swords
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Rest of your Equipments.
You would rank the Swords much lower than the Jitte? Most of the equipment I have would be used probably be in at least 50%-60% of all cube lists. I thought the swords would be ranked much higher. I read the discussion on Loxodon Warhammer. All the swords were rated between 81% and 97%. Sword of Feast and Famine was ranked the lowest and being in only 81% of cubes. Skullclamp was listed as being in 86% of cubes and Jitte was only 76%. I also have Lightning Greaves and Bonehoard in my cube. They were both above 70%. The only other good equipment i'm not running right now is the 5 swords and batterskull.
Swords are great, but in the right deck Skullclamp is broken. The Swords can go almost in any non-control deck you draft, but clamp needs a slightly more specific deck to shine. Jitte is inherently more powerfull then Swords, unless you get lucky and get protection from their deck.
Jitte with a lot of creatures
Skullclamp in a deck made around it
Swords with random creatures
Skullclamp with random creatures
Jitte with few creatures
Swords in deck with few creatures
...
Skullclamp in low creatures decks
This mini ranking shows the difference as I see it.
I guess Jitte is pretty powerful. How does it compare to fast mana cards like Sol Ring and Mana Vault? How does it compared to P9 cards? I just added Jitte to my cube because I wanted their to be better equipment. I wanted something besides Skullclamp that is good. I have a lot of lower powered cards in my cube and i'm trying to replace some them with better cards. I don't want to totally change the identity of my cube. I don't want to add cards that seem overpowered for an unpowered cube.
I have select stronger cards in my cube such as Mind Twist, Balance, Upheval, Grave Titan, Wheel of Fortune, etc. I also have other cards which can be annyoing like Rampaging Baloths and OB Nixilis, The Fallen. I have had games where I lost to both of these creatures. I dont want something like Sol Ring that could be considered too powerful. I thought about adding Sol Ring but I don't think you would want that in a underpowered cube. My cube is a budget cube and has many lower powered cards that don't even compare to the power of Sol Ring.
Jitte is broken. I'd take it over a Lotus in the cube. I'd take it over everything except Library of Alexandria and Sol Ring. And maybe Ancestral Recall.
Skullclamp is also broken, but not nearly as much so.
Sword of Fire and Ice is insane, but still below the above two.
Then you have all the other Swords behind those.
Then you have all your other equipment cards.
I guess Jitte is pretty powerful. How does it compare to fast mana cards like Sol Ring and Mana Vault? How does it compared to P9 cards? I just added Jitte to my cube because I wanted their to be better equipment. I wanted something besides Skullclamp that is good. I have a lot of lower powered cards in my cube and i'm trying to replace some them with better cards. I don't want to totally change the identity of my cube. I don't want to add cards that seem overpowered for an unpowered cube.
I have select stronger cards in my cube such as Mind Twist, Balance, Upheval, Grave Titan, Wheel of Fortune, etc. I also have other cards which can be annyoing like Rampaging Baloths and OB Nixilis, The Fallen. I have had games where I lost to both of these creatures. I dont want something like Sol Ring that could be considered too powerful. I thought about adding Sol Ring but I don't think you would want that in a underpowered cube. My cube is a budget cube and has many lower powered cards that don't even compare to the power of Sol Ring.
Well, I'd say that Jitte is weaker than Sol Ring, but not by much. I'd definitely rank it above Mana Vault, and probably all of the Power 9 (though I think it's close with Ancestral Recall and Black Lotus). In fact, Sol Ring is the only card that I'd definitely pick over a Jitte. It's basically an auto-win against creature-based decks if it hits the field, and it's also brutal against other decks because it speeds up your clock so much and can represent so much lifegain if you're behind. Swords are good and all, but they're nowhere near Jitte (remember, it triggers on any combat damage - including blocking - while the swords only trigger on connecting with an opponent), so if you're trying to improve equipment in your cube without changing the power level, I'd recommend adding them before you add Jitte.
I agree with most of the other posters. Jitte is the best equipment. The cards I'd pick above it are the same as wtwlf's: Sol Ring, Library of Alexandria, and maybe Ancestral Recall (I'd also pick Wildfire above it if I was in the mood--Wildfire is one of my favorite decks to draft--but I know that's not the right pick, power-level wise).
I haven't tested Disciple of Bolas, but Abyssal Persecutor has just been amazing for us. I highly recommend everyone try it. It's drawback is miniscule compared to what it looks like on paper. It has been great for us in aggro, midrange, and control. People really go out of their way to kill it, as they really don't want to be in a situation where they have to prevent you from killing one of your creatures to win. Even if you are running counters, that is a scary proposition.
Thats the truth, would you play him over Nekrataal?
I would, if that was the choice I was faced with, though I love some Nekrataal. I'd probably want to see the whole black section to know, but it's at least worth testing in that slot.
Desecration Demon is a horrible aggressive and defensive creature, and is worse than Juzaam Djinn against control. Abyssal Persecutor shines as both a attacker and defender, and combos beautifully with blacks removal, sacrifice, and discard package. I don't think the cards are in the same league.
But wouldn't it play significantly worse against aggro/midrange due to the the fact that they have more creatures and Desecration Demon doesn't have trample? In my cube most decks tend to be aggro/midrange and tokens is a thing, so I feel like Desecration Demon would usually end up being a dead card. Have you playtested it?
Edit: eidolon, Just looked at your list, and saw you play it. Have you played Abyssal Persecutor before? If you have I'm assuming Desecration Demon has played better for you?
I've really enjoyed playing Desecration Demon in my cube so far. It doesn't work so much as a great finisher or creature at all for most of the game but as a one sided abyss that flips when they run out of creatures and turns into a huge fatty. If you are playing it as your only creature and expecting it to win against aggro, you are going to have a bad time.
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TBH it wasn't until I did about 20-some odd simulations of the original MTGO cube list that I noticed that Plated Geopede and Phantasmal Image were there.
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
From the first group, I wouldn't run any. At 400 cards, I'd run Pyroclasm, Earthquake, Arc Lightning, and Flames of the Firebrand as my red "sweepers". Obviously, run Rolling Earthquake if you've got one.
From the second, I'd run Chrome Mox and Mind Stone, but Chrome Mox is really more of an aggro fixer and not that great for the Wildfire deck.
Cheers,
rant
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That sounds about right to me, but I would get Bonfire of the Damned in there for sure.
I have issue with a lot of what you said here.
- You talk of no way in 'coherent decks' do you have ways to abuse 10 mana. X-Spells (not just burn spells, but token makers and draw spells, too)? Casting 2 large creatures? Casting a large threat and still having countermagic mana up? These are all things that happen when you untap with Wake; VERY seldom is the untap and only cast a 5-drop or so.
- Midrange decks love anthem effects, too. So do control decks that use tokens as a way to buy time/win the game (think Elspeths, Sorin, Lingering Souls, the aforementioned Decree/Entreat). Oh, and you get double mana too in order to keep casting your 5+ drops that midrange/control decks are wont to play.
- Name the 10 or 12 cards that are better. I'll spot you 5-6: Pridemage, Dryad Militant, Kitchen Finks, Knight of the Reliquary (since you believe this anyway), Gaddock Teeg (a card I've come to find as important to battle midrange/control). Let's say Smiter too, since he is definitely better in a more aggressive section.
I consider my Cube to be pretty aggro-supported and lower on the CMC scale while supporting lots of deck archetypes (considering that I'm unpowered as well), so unless you are just pushing the crap out of aggro in all your color combinations, I think Wake is a very nice nod to the mid- and control decks without 'ruining' the section.
And yes, it's also fun as all get out.
-AA
I use descriptive language. Assume that I'm being nice and respectful. (I'll tell you when I'm not.)
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Grafted Wargear and Bonesplitter is much higher than other equipment as well. They're great.
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You would rank the Swords much lower than the Jitte? Most of the equipment I have would be used probably be in at least 50%-60% of all cube lists. I thought the swords would be ranked much higher. I read the discussion on Loxodon Warhammer. All the swords were rated between 81% and 97%. Sword of Feast and Famine was ranked the lowest and being in only 81% of cubes. Skullclamp was listed as being in 86% of cubes and Jitte was only 76%. I also have Lightning Greaves and Bonehoard in my cube. They were both above 70%. The only other good equipment i'm not running right now is the 5 swords and batterskull.
Jitte with a lot of creatures
Skullclamp in a deck made around it
Swords with random creatures
Skullclamp with random creatures
Jitte with few creatures
Swords in deck with few creatures
...
Skullclamp in low creatures decks
This mini ranking shows the difference as I see it.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
I have select stronger cards in my cube such as Mind Twist, Balance, Upheval, Grave Titan, Wheel of Fortune, etc. I also have other cards which can be annyoing like Rampaging Baloths and OB Nixilis, The Fallen. I have had games where I lost to both of these creatures. I dont want something like Sol Ring that could be considered too powerful. I thought about adding Sol Ring but I don't think you would want that in a underpowered cube. My cube is a budget cube and has many lower powered cards that don't even compare to the power of Sol Ring.
Skullclamp is also broken, but not nearly as much so.
Sword of Fire and Ice is insane, but still below the above two.
Then you have all the other Swords behind those.
Then you have all your other equipment cards.
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Well, I'd say that Jitte is weaker than Sol Ring, but not by much. I'd definitely rank it above Mana Vault, and probably all of the Power 9 (though I think it's close with Ancestral Recall and Black Lotus). In fact, Sol Ring is the only card that I'd definitely pick over a Jitte. It's basically an auto-win against creature-based decks if it hits the field, and it's also brutal against other decks because it speeds up your clock so much and can represent so much lifegain if you're behind. Swords are good and all, but they're nowhere near Jitte (remember, it triggers on any combat damage - including blocking - while the swords only trigger on connecting with an opponent), so if you're trying to improve equipment in your cube without changing the power level, I'd recommend adding them before you add Jitte.
Cheers,
rant
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I haven't tested Disciple of Bolas, but Abyssal Persecutor has just been amazing for us. I highly recommend everyone try it. It's drawback is miniscule compared to what it looks like on paper. It has been great for us in aggro, midrange, and control. People really go out of their way to kill it, as they really don't want to be in a situation where they have to prevent you from killing one of your creatures to win. Even if you are running counters, that is a scary proposition.
Sadly, they work really well together.
I would, if that was the choice I was faced with, though I love some Nekrataal. I'd probably want to see the whole black section to know, but it's at least worth testing in that slot.
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Edit: eidolon, Just looked at your list, and saw you play it. Have you played Abyssal Persecutor before? If you have I'm assuming Desecration Demon has played better for you?
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