MTG Salvation

I've wanted to give a Pauper cube a shot for a while, because I enjoy the differing power level and playing with cards that I probably wouldn't otherwise. I'm also interested in this project, because it's a cube I could take pretty much anywhere without much worry about cards being lost, stolen etc. I haven't really paid much attention to other Pauper/Peasant cubes because I wanted to see where I could get this on my own steam at first, and now I'm presenting it to you. You'll notice a fair number of pingers and tappers, which are meant to help control the board given lack of quality mass removal. There is a conscious effort to give control some big finishers and much needed tools, so some of the cards that seem subpar are probably for those purposes.

This is my first try at a Pauper cube, so comments would be very much appreciated. Also, if you notice any misspellings or mistakes, on cards or otherwise, let me know. That stuff bothers me.

Yeah, some cool stuff I've never seen before. I like that you've made the multi-colored and artifact sections so small (I'm cutting a lot of cards from those in my CU cube).
Looks fun!

@ Fredmaster: Thanks for giving it a once-over; I put a good amount of time into this list and I think it's pretty solid, but it could use some fine tuning and knowledge of some hidden gems for sure.

I don't think I'll be expanding my multicolor section. I chose 3 of each combination because I didn't want to have too much multicolor show up in a draft and because combos like UR really drop off after 2 or 3 cards when not including uncommons or rares.

Lava Dart is really good, actually. It's like a common Forked Bolt at instant speed and the cost of saccing the mountain you used to play it, if you want.

As far as the Zendikar/Worldwake lands go, the only one I'm really displeased with is Piranha Marsh and the others are all Pauper playable to good, imo. Steppe, Seacliff, and Smoldering Spires all basically give evasion in some form; Crossroads, Peaks, Grove, and Garden (as well as Marsh, I suppose) all give you an edge in a race at the cost of cipt. And then Depths and Bog do something unique. The cycling lands don't really do anything that none of your other cards can't do. They can tap for mana next turn, or they can become another card. I just don't think they're worth it in a draft format.

@ sharky: As far as the multicolor and artifact sections go, I really didn't want to put anything in here that wasn't immediately playble for the most part and allowed very few niche cards to make it in. I used the filter of a program and narrowed each search to "color is___", "rarity: common" and then sifted through pretty much every card possible for each section until I got a list of about 100 possible additions for each color and considerably less so for artifacts, lands, and multicolor. Just had to whittle down each list because I want very few cards that aren't going to see play in 70%+ of the drafts.

Also, would you guys mind telling me what unusual cards I run? Like I said, I pretty much built this thing from the ground up and had only initial motivation from other similar cubes. I took what I thought to be decent to good and shoved it in here.

Yeah, I stand by almost all of those as cards that I know will be good and the others are cards that I suspect will be. I mean, Goblin Patrol makes it into powered cubes, so I don't think many(if any at all) of these lists are authoritative on what should be in Pauper cubes. We'll see from further drafts how good what cards are and what archetypes need more support. Thanks for the info and feedback.

Little update:

- Piranha Marsh, + Barren Moor

- Relic of Progenitus, - Vulshok Gauntlets, + Leonin Bola, + Whispersilk Cloak

- Palace Guard, - Gelid Shackles, + Wall of Glare, + Shelter

I know I said I didn't care for the cycling lands, but I figured a land that could tap for mana or become another card is better than Piranha Marsh, which always has to suck.

- Surrakar Banisher, + Helium Squirter

This was suggested by one of the cube regulars and HS was really good all day. Such a good exchange.

Personally, I don't like Helium Squirter, but I do think it's better than the Banisher, so I agree with the change~

And also, awesome on the Swirling Sandstorm. How has it been working out for you?

Quote from Lanxal

Personally, I don't like Helium Squirter, but I do think it's better than the Banisher, so I agree with the change~

Have you played with it, or is it a gut reaction? If you have played with it, what was it that you didn't like about it? I think that the pump was almost more relevant than the evasion(to get around future pingers or some other removal/ be able to swing or block without trading).

Oh and Sandstorm has been garbage so far, but the cube hasn't been drafted too many times yet. I'll give it another 3+ tries before it gets the axe.

Gut feeling. I think there are much better cards than it; Tidewater Minion, for one.

Sad on the Sandstorm front. I wonder if I should cut it, but I think that it might works in my Cube. My cube has a lot more focus on specific archetypes and color identity (Blue is bounce, for example), and one of the main archetypes I love is Dead Dog and self-discard decks, which strengthens Threshold.

I definitely don't think Minion is better than HS. Minion is harder to cast, has no evasion, and costs a million mana to attack with--lending it way more to control decks than being somewhat flexible. HS makes stuff bigger and gives evasion, both of which are quite powerful abilities.

I don't think minion is terrible or unplayable by any means, but I certainly think it's a notch or two below. Still though, that is a card that went under my radar and it could warrant testing.

I agree, it's a matter of different archtypes. Tidewater Minion is a total beast in control, while HS is (I assume) a great card for creature-heavy X/U aggro decks. I just think that the Minion is better for control than HS is for aggro.

Haha, same with me; Helium Squirter seems like a good card to experiment with. Thanks for the suggestion! (And everyone left the discussion better off. xD)

Hey, nice cube! You've given me a lot of ideas for my own.

I couldn't help but notice though, in your multicoloured section, you said that there wasn't much to choose from with UR - I have to disagree. With my cube, I've found that UR control is a really strong deck, with counters, burn spells and card advantage. Jilt is a really powerful card, you should definitely try it out. Izzet Chronarch is also decent, getting back a counterspell or a Lightning Bolt is always nice. Quicksilver Dagger is also an interesting card that can get seriously nuts as the game goes on.

On the whole, i really like the look of your cube - you've got some really nice cards that I totally forgot about - Soul Manipulation and Winged Coatl seem pretty strong, and will probably find there ways into my cube too. It's especially nice to see the Coatl not being abused by Momir Vig in EDH.

Sorry, haven't checked this thread in a while. Thanks for the feedback kirby, but none of those UR cards really do it for me or act even less like true multicolor in the case of Jilt.

So, M11 has been very kind to this cube. Here are the updates:

White: - Ivory Giant, - Glorious Charge, + Blinding Mage, + Inspired Charge

Blue: - Coral Trickster, - Inspiration, - Boomerang, + Augury Owl, + Aether Adept, + Foresee

Black: - Death's-Head Buzzard, + Liliana's Specter

Red:- Akki Avalanchers, - Swirling Sandstorm, + Manic Vandal, + Chandra's Outrage

Green: - Werebear, - Multani's Acolyte, - Grazing Gladehart, - Mist Leopard, - Lignify, - Mwonvuli Acid-Moss, + Sylvan Ranger, + Garruk's Companion, + Sacred Wolf, + Brindle Boar, + Giant Spider, + Cultivate

There are obviously some reprints making it onto the list, but it really took M11 to make me give them a second look. I'm excited about almost every card going in this update and especially excited about green. Let me know what you guys think.

Giant Spider? Really?

But, solid changes overall.

Green has very few ways to deal with flying and it has a huge butt. I definitely would prefer Penumbra Spider, but I don't actually have one right now. As far as the cuts go, there really isn't anything I'll be missing too much, so why not replace something that will always sit in a sideboard with something that will be sided in?

A flaw in my logic?

It's your choice, but it reassures me slightly that it's only a placeholder.

Giant Spider definitely seems unimpressive. I run Cloudcrown Oak, who is generally pretty decent, but I'm not whether it's better or worse than Penumbra Spider. The 3 power means it can go on the offense, but the Thrinax-style ability seems pretty decent.

I like your changes overall, but am sad to see Wearbear go. He's been really solid for me, and come on, he's called Werebear.

A couple more updates for this cube:

- Heavy Ballista, + Cloud Crusader

- Snapping Drake, + Azure Drake

- Yamabushi's Storm, + Fling

Snapping Drake is pretty good, but very rarely does blue go all out aggro and a 3/2 just can't block much without dying. It's bad for 4 drops to trade for 1 drops. Azure drake should serve the blue mage's needs much better, by holding the fort until it's finally time to start swinging back.

Yamabushi's Storm was never terrible or anything, but it was never amazing either. Most times you'd either not want to play it, because you'd kill your own guys too or you'd have to work out some awkward blocking/attacking situations to make it worthwhile. Fling, on the other hand, is much easier to get value out of. It's a nice "answer" to Pacifism type effects, can break up a stalemate, or just go to the dome ftw. The utility you get out of the card is well worth the card disadvantage imo.

I'm waiting until the entire cube is updated and foil(if possible) to put up pictures.

I removed Gladehart for the Boar because the boar is useful a turn earlier and it's more useful when drawn late whereas Gladehart needs at least two more land drops to equal the same effectiveness and that takes two turns outside of Rampant Growth type effects.

That pretty much sums my feelings up on that, but I think they are both fine cards and I can see possible arguments for either. I could see certain cubes playing both, but when put head-to-head I vote Boar.

But the four life gained from Brindle Boar requires it to be sacrificed. Grazing Gladehart doesn't. If the creature eats a removal spell before Grazing Gladehart gains you 4 life, then of course, Brindle Boar is better, but Grazing Gladehart can do it without dying, and can do a lot more.

But, to each his own. I've had a lot of success with Grazing Gladehart, but I haven't tested Brindle Boar, so... /shrugs

Quote from Neradox

This is what I think, too.

I cannot believe that someone cuts the Ballista! This card is the nuts for us. We see it at least in the top 15 of cards overall. May I ask why you changed the "I kill your little men" effect for flying and first strike? You can even splash the Ballista! Was it not impressive for you?

The problem with Ballista was that it's a totally reactive card that the opponent can see and plan around. Sure, it's a nice way to stop a two toughness creature, but so is a 2 power, flying first striker. And the Crusader can go on the offensive much better than the Ballista. The fact that the Ballista is easier to cast is somewhat lessened when nobody wants the card in their deck. This cube has been through 20ish drafts and I don't think I ever saw it played and if it did make someone's deck, they must have had better things to cast because it literally never saw the field.

I had much higher hopes for the Ballista and thought it would be a great defensive card, but there are still a lot of cards that work better defensively. I'm not opposed to possibly giving it another shot, someday, because my initial evaluation of the card is very much like your current one.

I'm still not 100% on the Boar vs Gladehart deal, but I'm just going with what I think the best card on average would be. Gladehart has a much higher ceiling, but I think the Boar will do just fine early and much, much better when drawn late in tight situations. There could very well be room for both.

Quote from Drahcir_Nagrom

I'm still not 100% on the Boar vs Gladehart deal, but I'm just going with what I think the best card on average would be. Gladehart has a much higher ceiling, but I think the Boar will do just fine early and much, much better when drawn late in tight situations. There could very well be room for both.

But that's exactly the thing. Of course there are situations in which Boar is better (you and your opponent on 1 life, you know your opponent has a Lightning Bolt and you know you're going to draw a bolt after Boar/Gladehart). But in the general lategame "I just need to stabilize" kind of situation, which is by far more common, the Gladehart makes every top-deck land at least a little better. And if you're on the winning edge, neither will matter much late game.

We are talking in circles.

You say: "If you keep drawing into lands, it could buy you a lot more time. " I don't necessarily disagree with this.

I say: "What if you don't have the luxury of two or more turns in a lategame situation?"

Then you've just played a "2G, Gain 4 life" spell and effectively stalled out a losing situation, yes. That 4 life has bought you maybe one or two turns. But unless that happens consistently, Grazing Gladehart is better most of the time.

And that is not what I said. I said, "If you keep drawing into lands, they're not as useless." And unless you're the god of luck, you will draw useless lands lategame.

Grazing Gladehart is good early on and great later. Brindle Boar is good early on, but becomes increasingly bad as the game progresses.

I just don't think Brindle Boar stacks up. And Grazing Gladehart is going to get the chop soon, too, when they print a better green creatures. Neither is that great, in my opinion. But if you were to pick one, I'd go with the Grazing Gladehart.

Quote from Lanxal

Then you've just played a "2G, Gain 4 life" spell and effectively stalled out a losing situation, yes. That 4 life has bought you maybe one or two turns.

Who would not block with Boar and effectively gain 6 or more life? It just boils down to the fact that it's useful the turn it comes down, no matter what turn that is. There are certain board states or plays that make Gladehart better or worse than Boar at any given time, but it can't, by definition, be as consistent, and I rate Boar as decent enough consistently.

This has been way too long of a debate over two playable creatures and I think we should just agree to disagree until more conclusive information is at hand should both sides be willing to listen to that.