Agreed. Black Vise is good for aggro, and good with Winter Orb. Both the Treespeaker and the Lynx would be nice too, but I don't want to move into another color just yet.
Exactly. Add another vote to Black Vise
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
That which nourishes me, destroys me
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
How so? Sure, you can kill an untapped land if orb's already in play, (for four mana, which is in that situation a ton) or for 6 blow up a land before you play orb, but neither of these plays are at all optimal, at least not nearly as optimal as orb into...
How so? Sure, you can kill an untapped land if orb's already in play, (for four mana, which is in that situation a ton) or for 6 blow up a land before you play orb, but neither of these plays are at all optimal, at least not nearly as optimal as orb into...
Black Vice. Yeah that's my pick.
When they only get to untap one land per turn, yeah, I would say that paying 4 mana for a time walk that comes with a 2/1 haste is pretty ideal. If you have denied mana early in the game, then winter orb becomes more effective if you drop it later. But you can't tell me that the tempo advantage of ruinblaster does anything besides synergize wonderfully with winter orb. Unless you are destroying a tapped land while they are under orb, in which case you are misplaying. Not to mention that it deals with other problems like Library or Maze.
Yes, turn 1 vice, turn 2 orb is pretty strong. Presuming that you are on the play and your opponent does nothing, then it will do somewhere around 7 damage and slow you down significantly (playing your 2 drop on turn 3 IF you manage to have 3 lands, orb, vice, and that 2 drop in your first 9 cards). Which is the optimal case. Most of the time if you land an orb, your opponent will be able to play things, albiet less things than if they were under orb, but most of the time it isn't going to cause their hand to fill up and let vice do real damage. Orb does tremendous damage when you play it right after your opponent tapped out for something large and you nullify 4+ lands with it.
Has Black Vice every really performed? It is only good when you draw it in your opening 7-8 cards. Otherwise your opponent has played things and it will do little-to-no damage. I would rather play Shock.
My cube experience with it was that it never did anything except randomly every 6 games or so dealing 5-6 damage. I will always pick a card that is useful 50% of the time over vice, which is useful intermittently.
Maybe we will have to agree to disagree, but I think that the synergy between Ruinblaster (or any other LD for that matter) and W. Orb is far too good to ignore, and certainly better than the situational synergy between Vice (a card that I think is terrible in cube anyhow) and Orb. Vice wouldn't make my final 40 unless I had no other real cards to put in.
Also after this is all done if anyone wants to do mws matches with the decks I can play I finally figured out how to get around mws load deck error crap
Black looks open, but no clear signals thus far. The Pillage is nice but we're really jumping into red with not a whole lot to go on, so I'll say Taiga.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The towels were so thick there I could hardly close my suitcase. -Y. Berra
The way I see it: Capsize - can bounce the land they decided to untap on their upkeep, or can bounce a tapland if they have one untapped. It's pretty much as good as LD with the orb down is what I'm saying. Capsize does cool stuff without Winter Orb, and can reach critical mass early with Koth in play. Not to mention we can bounce Koth in response to them attacking him. O.o I'm a blue player, and this card is just so versatile, not to mention how backbreaking it becomes when you have six mana.
Journey to Nowhere - it's easier for us to cast while the orb is down than either Capsize or Pillage. Journey to Nowhere can kill a creature they spent several turns untapping for, it's good tempo advantage normally, it's excellent tempo advantage with the orb down.
Pillage - looks like the natural pick because we already have another card with RR in its cost, but we shouldn't have to worry that much about color commitments yet, I don't think. Pillage does the same thing Journey to Nowhere does to creatures to artifacts (or artifact creatures, naturally), with the added advantage of potentially keeping them from casting spells. This card's biggest advantage over the other cards is that it can win some games through color screws.
If you ask me, Capsize is the best card in this pack. My vote goes to it.
Kitchen Finks looks pretty nice to me, too, actually.
Exactly. Add another vote to Black Vise
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
My cube list on CubeTutor.
Both are very much under construction. Please stop by and talk about it!
[Remixes] - [The Brutal Cube - 360 Powered] - [My Cube Article] - ['Print-This' Wishlist]
The Ruinblaster's tempo advantage is kind of mitigated if we have our orb in play.
My cube list on CubeTutor.
Both are very much under construction. Please stop by and talk about it!
You mean amplified?
[Remixes] - [The Brutal Cube - 360 Powered] - [My Cube Article] - ['Print-This' Wishlist]
How so? Sure, you can kill an untapped land if orb's already in play, (for four mana, which is in that situation a ton) or for 6 blow up a land before you play orb, but neither of these plays are at all optimal, at least not nearly as optimal as orb into...
Black Vice. Yeah that's my pick.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
When they only get to untap one land per turn, yeah, I would say that paying 4 mana for a time walk that comes with a 2/1 haste is pretty ideal. If you have denied mana early in the game, then winter orb becomes more effective if you drop it later. But you can't tell me that the tempo advantage of ruinblaster does anything besides synergize wonderfully with winter orb. Unless you are destroying a tapped land while they are under orb, in which case you are misplaying. Not to mention that it deals with other problems like Library or Maze.
Yes, turn 1 vice, turn 2 orb is pretty strong. Presuming that you are on the play and your opponent does nothing, then it will do somewhere around 7 damage and slow you down significantly (playing your 2 drop on turn 3 IF you manage to have 3 lands, orb, vice, and that 2 drop in your first 9 cards). Which is the optimal case. Most of the time if you land an orb, your opponent will be able to play things, albiet less things than if they were under orb, but most of the time it isn't going to cause their hand to fill up and let vice do real damage. Orb does tremendous damage when you play it right after your opponent tapped out for something large and you nullify 4+ lands with it.
Has Black Vice every really performed? It is only good when you draw it in your opening 7-8 cards. Otherwise your opponent has played things and it will do little-to-no damage. I would rather play Shock.
My cube experience with it was that it never did anything except randomly every 6 games or so dealing 5-6 damage. I will always pick a card that is useful 50% of the time over vice, which is useful intermittently.
Maybe we will have to agree to disagree, but I think that the synergy between Ruinblaster (or any other LD for that matter) and W. Orb is far too good to ignore, and certainly better than the situational synergy between Vice (a card that I think is terrible in cube anyhow) and Orb. Vice wouldn't make my final 40 unless I had no other real cards to put in.
[Remixes] - [The Brutal Cube - 360 Powered] - [My Cube Article] - ['Print-This' Wishlist]
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Krackshott Made This^^^^
My Trades
My (Fun)powered Cube
My Tribal cube
My 93/94 old school cube
My Artifact cube
My Hearthstone Quiz App for iOS
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Profane Command
1 Taiga
1 Grave Titan
1 Scrubland
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Pillage
1 Nekrataal
1 Sundering Titan
1 Bottle Gnomes
1 Capsize
P1P02 Koth of the Hammer (over Survival of the Fittest)
P1P03 Black Vise (over Goblin Ruinblaster)
EDIT: that makes 2 votes each for Pillage, Journey and Taiga so far. This should be an interesting pack.
Lands WUBG
EDH:
Doran WBG
My Tribal cube
My 93/94 old school cube
My Artifact cube
My Hearthstone Quiz App for iOS
The way I see it:
Capsize - can bounce the land they decided to untap on their upkeep, or can bounce a tapland if they have one untapped. It's pretty much as good as LD with the orb down is what I'm saying. Capsize does cool stuff without Winter Orb, and can reach critical mass early with Koth in play. Not to mention we can bounce Koth in response to them attacking him. O.o I'm a blue player, and this card is just so versatile, not to mention how backbreaking it becomes when you have six mana.
Journey to Nowhere - it's easier for us to cast while the orb is down than either Capsize or Pillage. Journey to Nowhere can kill a creature they spent several turns untapping for, it's good tempo advantage normally, it's excellent tempo advantage with the orb down.
Pillage - looks like the natural pick because we already have another card with RR in its cost, but we shouldn't have to worry that much about color commitments yet, I don't think. Pillage does the same thing Journey to Nowhere does to creatures to artifacts (or artifact creatures, naturally), with the added advantage of potentially keeping them from casting spells. This card's biggest advantage over the other cards is that it can win some games through color screws.
If you ask me, Capsize is the best card in this pack. My vote goes to it.
Kitchen Finks looks pretty nice to me, too, actually.
My cube list on CubeTutor.
Both are very much under construction. Please stop by and talk about it!