I like that change. I was slightly irked (but not enough to mention) that the organizers had a pre-say into what was deemed good enough to vote on (even though some of my designs made it in). I think this will make everyone happier overall.
Yes, I was getting that feeling as well bwian, hence the change. We were trying our hardest to give everyone equal representation but not everyone is bound to agree with everything we do. We also felt like the project was loosing a bit of steam after moving back some of the dates, so we hope this will improve on participation and increase the enthusiasm to the levels we saw when the project began.
I'm pretty sure there was a discussion earlier about how there needed to be a smaller amount of people in control of the project because without that the project fades into nothingness like last time.
Altaurus and I were just running it the best way we knew how.
I'm pretty sure there was a discussion earlier about how there needed to be a smaller amount of people in control of the project because without that the project fades into nothingness like last time.
Altaurus and I were just running it the best way we knew how.
And I think you did a great job! Preselecting cards for the voting may not have been to everyone's liking, but it actually seemed to work. I actually liked the system.
Would it be possible to move on to the next design thread as well so we don't go design-->vote-->design--> vote? I personally feel capable of voting on cards and designing other cards at the same time.
Would it be possible to move on to the next design thread as well so we don't go design-->vote-->design--> vote? I personally feel capable of voting on cards and designing other cards at the same time.
Is everyone Ok with moving captain kirtar down to the 4cc, eliminating Nirvana, and then moving Simple Shadow Dude up into the missing spot? Or should Nirvana be altered to a 3cc creature?
Also, this seems like something that would be done during development (i think), but what do you guys think of the lopsided ending curve for white? 5 is almost vacant but we have 3 7+cc's. Something we should probably address later down the line. A solution may be seperating 5cc+ into 5cc and 6cc+. Let me know what you all think!
Is everyone Ok with moving captain kirtar down to the 4cc, eliminating Nirvana, and then moving Simple Shadow Dude up into the missing spot? Or should Nirvana be altered to a 3cc creature?
Also, this seems like something that would be done during development (i think), but what do you guys think of the lopsided ending curve for white? 5 is almost vacant but we have 3 7+cc's. Something we should probably address later down the line. A solution may be seperating 5cc+ into 5cc and 6cc+. Let me know what you all think!
yes to moving kirtar to 4CMC. Not sure about moving nirvana to 3, that might make him too good, I'd be fine with simple shadow dude.
completely agreed on the end curve. That's one of the very reasons I didn't even vote for 5CMC+. we may have to create cards for 5CC again and vote for them again. I feel like 5CMC creatures are too important to be lumped with the cards that cost more.
Basically, each person will be alotted design slots in their post equal to the number of slots we are trying to fill. For example: We are voting on White Noncreatures 1-3cc, in which the 1cc slot has 4 slots and 2cc has 4 slots and 3cc has 4 slots. If i wanted to design something for it, my post setup would look like the following:
White Noncreature 1cc:
1.
2.
3.
4.
White Noncreature 2cc:
1.
2.
3.
4.
White Noncreature 3cc:
1.
2.
3.
4.
I would be able to submit up to the max number of slots we were trying to fill for each cc. Limiting the number of submissions each person has focuses the voting trends of individuals and gives us less sporadic results. Then after the submission phase was over, the voting phase would start and everyone would look through everyone's designs and pick their favorites using the numbering system we already have from the PRE. This will remove our possibly subjective selections and allow everyone to pick their favorite cards. How does this sound to everyone?
So are the designs anywhere? Do we sift through the submissions in the design card thread? Is there any way to clean up the chaff posts in that thread that are no longer 'live'?
So are the designs anywhere? Do we sift through the submissions in the design card thread? Is there any way to clean up the chaff posts in that thread that are no longer 'live'?
I've attempted to do that by having everyone move the non active submissions to the archive thread, but people are people and they'll do what they want lol. The only way this could be enforced is by having DerBK help out (wink wink). But other than that.. yes merl. Though i don't think it's all that difficult to sift through 2 pages
Ok, that's cool. Killem has moved his 1-3CC spells to the archive thread already, so his cards may not receive many votes.....
I've included '0' vote cards that I liked but didn't make the top 4.
1CC white noncreatures (4)
4 Pithy Embrace (merl, pithing needle variant)
3 Reboot (merl, blink variant)
2 Royal Menagerie (killem, Savannah Lions variant)
1 Anthem for one (FoggManatic, exalted)
0 Sonic Shield (merl, Razor Barrier variant)
0 Tilling the Wheat (merl, Tithe Variant)
0 Cast Away (MidnightJazz, StP)
2CC white noncreatures (4)
4 Delete (merl, StP) /
3 Anger Management (merl, Collective Restraint variant)
2 Condemnation (Aston Journey to Nowhere variant)
1 Power Tithe (merl, Mana Leak variant)
0 Purge (should there be a single 'slot' for Exile variants like this and Delete? we should probably have one, but not too many of them)
3CC white noncreatures (5)
5 Oblivion Snare (merl, O-Ring variant)
4 Eternal Winter (Star Slayer, Winter Orb variant)
3 Field Furrowing (merl, Wrath variant)
2 Ramon Lifebearer (merl, Planeswalker)
1 Faithless Fetters (Aston Fetters variant)
0 Pulse of the Land (Anthem)
0 Unchant (Aston, cantrip disenchant)
0 Trial of Champions (Altarus, Anthemlike)
0 Winker (Altarus, Enchantment Tinker)
Here's a suggestion for future voting. Allow two (or more) cards to be in the same slot.
For example, somebody could give 3 points to Purge / Delete, or 4 points to Oblivion Field / Field Furrowing. Then the one most people put 'first' could be given the slot. Kinda like a 'single transferrable vote'.
We kinda did this in the original post of this thread with the landwalk/protection cats.
1cc 4. Reboot
3. Pithy Embrace
2. Cast Away
1. Ward Umbra
2cc 4. Enchanted Encampment
3. Condemnation
2. Hero’s Headstone
1. Anger Management
3cc
4. Oblivion Snare (a rename so it sounds less like an enchantment?)
3. Auspicious Anthem (should this cost more? I got no feedback on this)
2. Scuplt
1. Faithless Fetters
Oblivion Field, Brilliant Parity (with a nontoken stipulation) and Aggressive Assimilation are great cards but I wont vote for them until their CMC are deservedly increased.
Ok, it's the 29th where I am, so voting must be finished. Or is it?
1CC white spells
10 reboot
10 Pithy Embrace
7 Royal Managerie
6 cast away
-- the cut --
5 Traveler's Toll
3 order
3 ward umbra
3 Anthem
2 Seal of Plowshares
1 Anthem for One
Between Cast Away, Pithy Embrace, Clerical Error, Delete, and Oblivion Snare, I'd say we have enough low cost spot removal. As much as I hate to vote against my own design, Lowland Reinforcements would probably be more useful.
As for Eternal Winter vs Lark's Legacy, whilst I don't really like cards like EW I think a real problem here is that Oblivion Field is slightly undercosted. I could see including both EW and LL and moving OF to a 2WW cost.
I don't want to make a reversible Wrath effect cost as much as Wrath.
I actually like Condemnation more than Lowland Reinforcements, but don't want 3 two mana exile effects in white. Losing the elegant symmetry with Oblivion Snare makes me sad.
And a Winter Orb effect is just what aggro is looking for.
I'm also a fan of voting for effects rather than CMC for non-creatures, as the curve isn't so important. So for example in the 4+CC section, instead of voting for 5 4CC, 5 5CC and so on, we're voting for 3 Wrath effects, 3 Planeswalkers, 2 Armaggeddons, 6 Other cards. Does that make sense?
Yeah, I like that. It's about the only way a planeswalker will make it into the set methinks :~)
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And I think you did a great job! Preselecting cards for the voting may not have been to everyone's liking, but it actually seemed to work. I actually liked the system.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
Sounds great to me.
Would it be possible to move on to the next design thread as well so we don't go design-->vote-->design--> vote? I personally feel capable of voting on cards and designing other cards at the same time.
Sure.
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3CC White Creatures
Heavenly Creatures: 35
Captain Kirtar: 34
Winged CHampion: 25
Magic Eater: 20
Twin Cadet: 15
-- the cut --
Simple Shadow Dude: 12
Karmic Apotheosis: 8
Karmic Apothesis: 6
Glowing Wall: 6
Novator, the Ascendant: 2
Cloudrider Baliff: 2
4CC White Creatures
Immortal Elder: 32
Rhox Purifier: 22
Mallard of the Moat: 18
Nirvana, Beacon of Light: 16
-- the cut --
Dawnstrider of Gideon: 11
Contraband Official: 10
Banding Legion: 1
5+CC White Creatures
Dragon of Catastrophe : 23
Astral Shifter : 23
Broomstick: 22
Valkyrie of the Fields: 20
Guide of a New Dawn: 19
-- the cut --
Ezriel, the Spirit Lancer: 17
Oblivion Archangel: 14
Pasage Paladin: 6
Gideon Jura, Avenger: 4
Jhoval Squadron: 1
All fairly clear cut this time.
I appreciate it man, been swamped at work :(. I'll add them to the OP.
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Also, this seems like something that would be done during development (i think), but what do you guys think of the lopsided ending curve for white? 5 is almost vacant but we have 3 7+cc's. Something we should probably address later down the line. A solution may be seperating 5cc+ into 5cc and 6cc+. Let me know what you all think!
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yes to moving kirtar to 4CMC. Not sure about moving nirvana to 3, that might make him too good, I'd be fine with simple shadow dude.
completely agreed on the end curve. That's one of the very reasons I didn't even vote for 5CMC+. we may have to create cards for 5CC again and vote for them again. I feel like 5CMC creatures are too important to be lumped with the cards that cost more.
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I've attempted to do that by having everyone move the non active submissions to the archive thread, but people are people and they'll do what they want lol. The only way this could be enforced is by having DerBK help out (wink wink). But other than that.. yes merl. Though i don't think it's all that difficult to sift through 2 pages
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I've included '0' vote cards that I liked but didn't make the top 4.
1CC white noncreatures (4)
4 Pithy Embrace (merl, pithing needle variant)
3 Reboot (merl, blink variant)
2 Royal Menagerie (killem, Savannah Lions variant)
1 Anthem for one (FoggManatic, exalted)
0 Sonic Shield (merl, Razor Barrier variant)
0 Tilling the Wheat (merl, Tithe Variant)
0 Cast Away (MidnightJazz, StP)
2CC white noncreatures (4)
4 Delete (merl, StP) /
3 Anger Management (merl, Collective Restraint variant)
2 Condemnation (Aston Journey to Nowhere variant)
1 Power Tithe (merl, Mana Leak variant)
0 Purge (should there be a single 'slot' for Exile variants like this and Delete? we should probably have one, but not too many of them)
3CC white noncreatures (5)
5 Oblivion Snare (merl, O-Ring variant)
4 Eternal Winter (Star Slayer, Winter Orb variant)
3 Field Furrowing (merl, Wrath variant)
2 Ramon Lifebearer (merl, Planeswalker)
1 Faithless Fetters (Aston Fetters variant)
0 Pulse of the Land (Anthem)
0 Unchant (Aston, cantrip disenchant)
0 Trial of Champions (Altarus, Anthemlike)
0 Winker (Altarus, Enchantment Tinker)
1. cast away (midnightJazz)
2. order (cuttups)
3. ward umbra (crocodile)
4. reboot (Magicmerl)
TWO
1. hero's headstone (crocodile)
2. clerical error (aston)
3. hired goons (FoggManatic)
4. anger management (MagicMerl)
THREE
1. lark's legacy (FoggManatic)
2. brilliant parity (Killem2)
3. unchant (FoggManatic)
4. Glare of Authority (starslayer)
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1. Royal Managerie by Kilem2
2. Anthem by FoggManatic
3. Seal of Plowshares by FoggManatic
4. Traveler's Toll by Cuttups
2cc
1. Lowland Reinforcements by Star Slayer
2. Battalion's Beacon by Cuttups
3. Clerical Error by Aston
4. Condemnation by Aston
3cc
1. Oblivion Field by Cuttups
2. Welcomed the Wanderers by Cuttups
3. Winker by Altaurus
4. Enchanted Encampment by Crocodile
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For example, somebody could give 3 points to Purge / Delete, or 4 points to Oblivion Field / Field Furrowing. Then the one most people put 'first' could be given the slot. Kinda like a 'single transferrable vote'.
We kinda did this in the original post of this thread with the landwalk/protection cats.
4. Reboot
3. Pithy Embrace
2. Cast Away
1. Ward Umbra
2cc
4. Enchanted Encampment
3. Condemnation
2. Hero’s Headstone
1. Anger Management
3cc
4. Oblivion Snare (a rename so it sounds less like an enchantment?)
3. Auspicious Anthem (should this cost more? I got no feedback on this)
2. Scuplt
1. Faithless Fetters
Oblivion Field, Brilliant Parity (with a nontoken stipulation) and Aggressive Assimilation are great cards but I wont vote for them until their CMC are deservedly increased.
1CC white spells
10 reboot
10 Pithy Embrace
7 Royal Managerie
6 cast away
-- the cut --
5 Traveler's Toll
3 order
3 ward umbra
3 Anthem
2 Seal of Plowshares
1 Anthem for One
2CC white spells
9 clerical error
7 hero's headstone
7 Delete
6 Lowland Reinforcements
6 Condemnation
-- the cut --
5 anger management
4 Enchanted Encampment
4 Power Tithe
3 Battalions Beacon
2 hired goons
Lowland Reinforcements and Condemnation battle it out for the last spot! Who will survive?
3CC white spells
10 Oblivion Snare
8 Oblivion Field
6 Winker/Sculpt
5 unchant
4 Lark's legacy
4 Eternal Winter
-- the cut --
3 brilliant parity
3 Welcomed by Wanderers
3 Auspicious Anthem
3 Field Furrowing
2 Faithless Fetters
2 Ramon Lifebearer
1 glare of authority
1 Enchanted Encampment
And Eternal Winter and Lark's Legacy both make it into last place on the 3CC list.
So we need a vote-off of Lowland Reinforcements vs Condemnation, and Eternal Winter and Lark's Legacy.
Here's the cards:
and
Which do people prefer?
I don't want to make a reversible Wrath effect cost as much as Wrath.
My votes"
Condemnation and Eternal Winter
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I actually like Condemnation more than Lowland Reinforcements, but don't want 3 two mana exile effects in white. Losing the elegant symmetry with Oblivion Snare makes me sad.
And a Winter Orb effect is just what aggro is looking for.
Yeah, I like that. It's about the only way a planeswalker will make it into the set methinks :~)