I said the same thing about Dark Confidant during Ravnica. Turned out being a 2/1 was one of its best aspects. I think this might turn out to be true for Tiago's card.
Black can abuse a 2/1, blue rarely cares about early board position that needs to be aggressive.
I'm not sure if you guys know this, but this isn't Wizards' first attempt at using double faced cards. They implemented them first in Duel Masters in Japan where tcg's are extremely culturally relevant right now. This was an already tested idea that worked just fine that players enjoyed and obviously was not something Wizards regretted doing.
Exactly. You'll get use to it. At least give it sometimes. Most likely, it's not your cube is clear sleeve anyway.
Off topic: I love myself some Victory Spark/Weiss Schwarz/Precious Memories. Anyone else?
I just noticed that the new transform guy has trample on his other face. That makes him a 8/5 trample on the attack when he flips. That's pretty viscious. Is this guy more cubable than Kruin Outlaw?
For reference:
Kruin Outlaw - 1RR
First Strike
[Werewolf Transform] 2/2
////////// Terror of Kruin Pass
Double Strike
Each Werewolf you control can't be blocked except by two or more creatures.
[Werewolf Transform] 3/3
Instigator Gang - 3R
Attacking creatures you control get +1/+0.
[Werewolf Transform] 2/3
////////// Wildblood Pack
Trample
Attacking creatures you control get +3/+0.
[Werewolf Transform] 5/5
I think the Gang is a little better, because it also gives you a battle cry type effect in its first form that can be used right away. Take thatOrcish Oriflamme!
I think the Gang is a little better, because it also gives you a battle cry type effect in its first form that can be used right away. Take thatOrcish Oriflamme!
This what I was thinking as well. I didn't understand how it passed the vendicate verdict until I looked at it again which how I found the trample aspect. It's also only one red in the cost too, so it's splashable. So as a whole, if Orcish Oriflamme is cubable at the misprinted cost of 1R, is an attacking 3/3 cubable at the additional cost of 2? It feels as if the answer should be yes, but I guess the real question is whether he is better than any of my other 4-drops?
Unless the transform mechanic is more reliable than it looks, I'd say no; it's not better than any of my current red 4-drops. Only time/testing will show how often they stay upside-down.
The snapcaster is really good in counterburn (my favourite archetype) and I think you guys are really underestimating him, just give him time hes one of thoses can only get better as magic continues card.
It's good in everything, and I don't think many of us are underrating him. It's a really good creature.
$50 right now says he will be restricted in T1 within 6 months. Legacy Storm Combo just hit tier one with this guy. Do you realize what he can do in a format with Lion's Eye Diamond?
$50 right now says he will be restricted in T1 within 6 months. Legacy Storm Combo just hit tier one with this guy. Do you realize what he can do in a format with Lion's Eye Diamond?
I'll take that bet. They don't restrict creatures in type 1 anymore. If lodestone golem is allowed to do the things it does to stax in type 1 and stay unrestricted flashbacky dude won't be restricted
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There's a decent amount of cards sticking out to us to put in our cube, but granted since our cube is more about multiplayer games and less about 1v1 doing stupid stuff turn 2/3, some of our choices may seem odd.
Diving Reckoning - Awesome build around me card.
Fiend Hunter - Uhh, yeah.
Mentor of the Meek - Another build around me card that seems really abusable.
Invisible Stalker - Good already as is, but slap a Sword/Batterskull/Warhammer on him and he brings the beatdown.
Mindshrieker - A 2 drop win condition..yeah.
Snapcaster Mage - Absolutely no thought required for this guy..he is amazingly good and will fit into literally any strategy possible that runs U.
Bloodgift Demon - We like Phyrexian Arena and Graveborn Muse..so how about that effect gets slapped on to a 5/4 flier that can't kill you if you're at 1..absolute win.
Curse of Death's Hold - Kind of iffy on this one, but it seems good.
Diregraf Ghoul - Black's best 1 drop creature ever?
Liliana of the Veil - Yes. No second thoughts here at all.
Reaper of the Abyss - Personally don't like it very much, but the other guys want it in, so it's worth trying.
Devil's Play - Fireballs are the #1 win condition in our cube, so we may as well have one that can be played twice.
Instigator Gang//Wildblood Pack - This guy is insane..if he flips and you actually get to swing with him and friends, it's game over.
Kruin Outlaw//Terror of Kruin Pass - I like this guy being able to attack for 6 evasive damage by himself..and with equipment he just seems insane.
Garruk Relentless//Garruk, the Veil-Cursed - INSANE. SO INSANE. This Garruk does stupid stuff at any point in the game. I love it.
Mayor of Avabruck//Howlpack Alpha - Another 2 drop win condition. Seems really good.
Olivia Voldaren - Yep, she is insane and is a perfect mana sink, and thankfully we somehow still have Lightning Reaver in the cube, so we know a easy replacement.
..and yeah the enemy M10 duals are a welcome addition.
I once farted during the final match for prizes at an FNM. It was a tense moment, everything was quiet, control vs control, I was about to mana leak, thought about it.. and farted. Then mana leaked.
we go nuts for stuff like venser, shaper savant and with a couple of blue instants in the yard snapcaster will do a pretty awesome impression of him. i think he's going to be great.
i think the anthem werewolf is good even if it only flips occasionally. it's a 3/3 anthem for 3R that will be ridiculously huge and alpha-strikey at least once in a game unless you're very unlucky. an aggressive deck won't need to do much after they drop him so it won't be hard to flip him, and how often will your opponent cast two spells in a row multiple turns in a row? the 8 damage + triple anthem should seal the game in one turn, easy. for mid-sized cubes i think it's a shoe in for a trial run at the very least.
I'm pretty sure he doesn't fit into mono-permanent U decks.
i have literally never seen a deck that fits this description. if you are drafting this guy and you don't draft/maindeck any instants or sorceries (in blue?!) that's your fault.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
This is exactly what everybody said about the last change they hated.
"I didn't care about X, but THIS is going to be something that ruins the game for me forever".
Seriously, just roll with the changes. 6th ed. is the end of Magic. M10 was the end of Magic. Morph was the end of Magic. Transform is the end of Magic. Flip cards is the end of Magic. Split cards are the end of Magic. Seriously? I can't be the only person that gets tired of hearing people whine about "the end of Magic" with every single change.
I'll say it again, after playing with them for a month, nobody's gonna give a crap anymore.
Agreed. But that doesn't make it good. From the cutting the number of pro tours, to adding mythics, to adding lands to packs, to the m10 rules changes, to the continue pushing of aggro and creatures in particular, to the way they handle prereleases, to infect, to this, they've consistently made decisions that are disappointing. If the base game wasn't so damned fun I would quit. The reason we whine about so many decisions is that so many of them are bad.
Whereas there are very few positives. The good decisions they've made since Alara block are basically everything about Rise of the Eldrazi and most of the side products (Duel Decks, Premium Series, Commander and FTV) which I will give them credit for as they are all pretty awesome. Even the less successful ones, planechase and archenemy have their appeal. But outside of that not a lot springs to mind of things I've liked about the game recently.
So you're right that it isn't the end of the world. Just another disappointing thing in recent magic. It's the reason I mostly play cube and old set limited on magic-league.
I'm pretty sure he doesn't fit into mono-permanent U decks.
Mono-U permanent decks? The only decks like that I can thing of are the artifact decks, and even those run some spells. I'm definitely excited about Tiago.
From the cutting the number of pro tours, to adding mythics, to adding lands to packs, to the m10 rules changes, to the continue pushing of aggro and creatures in particular, to the way they handle prereleases, to infect, to this, they've consistently made decisions that our disappointing. If the base game wasn't so damned fun I would quit. The reason we whine about so many decisions is that so many of them are bad.
...
So you're right that it isn't the end of the world. Just another disappointing thing in recent magic. It's the reason I mostly play cube and old set limited on magic-league.
I don't know of any way to put this better. It just hits on everything. Hell, this is going into the preface of my cube thread.
(deliberate excising of that bit on ROE: I'm still annoyed that annihilator triggers on attack, not combat damage)
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
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I think so.maybe lose one of the more expensive soltaris?
well the only one I have in my cube is champion and he's not leaving. My list atm is not correct as its all being proxied, I was just wondering if he can cut it in 720.
well the only one I have in my cube is champion and he's not leaving. My list atm is not correct as its all being proxied, I was just wondering if he can cut it in 720.
I'm adding him to my 720, and I think he should be very good. We'll have to get some games in to know for sure, but my initial impression is "yes".
Agreed. But that doesn't make it good. From the cutting the number of pro tours, to adding mythics, to adding lands to packs, to the m10 rules changes, to the continue pushing of aggro and creatures in particular, to the way they handle prereleases, to infect, to this, they've consistently made decisions that are disappointing. If the base game wasn't so damned fun I would quit. The reason we whine about so many decisions is that so many of them are bad.
Well as soon as the overall number of Magic players starts to go down, I'll agree with you. But if the changes they make are attractive to new players and the total number of players in the game keeps going up, the decisions you and I don't like are still the right ones.
I don't like flip cards. I don't like the new card face, and I don't like the M10 rules changes. But after seeing how the game has grown each and every time they make a change I don't like, it's hard to argue with it. Their job is to keep the game expanding and sell product. They are doing that better now than ever before. So just because I'm a crotchety old Magic player that wants these damn transform cards off my lawn doesn't mean Wizards is doing something wrong. Quite he contrary, the game is stronger than it's ever been, so they're doing something right. Even if I don't like it.
Black can abuse a 2/1, blue rarely cares about early board position that needs to be aggressive.
If bobby was a 0/3 or 1/3 he'd be a lot worse.
Exactly. You'll get use to it. At least give it sometimes. Most likely, it's not your cube is clear sleeve anyway.
Off topic: I love myself some Victory Spark/Weiss Schwarz/Precious Memories. Anyone else?
My cube
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For reference:
First Strike
[Werewolf Transform]
2/2
//////////
Terror of Kruin Pass
Double Strike
Each Werewolf you control can't be blocked except by two or more creatures.
[Werewolf Transform]
3/3
Attacking creatures you control get +1/+0.
[Werewolf Transform]
2/3
//////////
Wildblood Pack
Trample
Attacking creatures you control get +3/+0.
[Werewolf Transform]
5/5
360 Unpowered Cube | Cubetutor
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My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
This what I was thinking as well. I didn't understand how it passed the vendicate verdict until I looked at it again which how I found the trample aspect. It's also only one red in the cost too, so it's splashable. So as a whole, if Orcish Oriflamme is cubable at the misprinted cost of 1R, is an attacking 3/3 cubable at the additional cost of 2? It feels as if the answer should be yes, but I guess the real question is whether he is better than any of my other 4-drops?
360 Unpowered Cube | Cubetutor
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
$50 right now says he will be restricted in T1 within 6 months. Legacy Storm Combo just hit tier one with this guy. Do you realize what he can do in a format with Lion's Eye Diamond?
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I'll take that bet. They don't restrict creatures in type 1 anymore. If lodestone golem is allowed to do the things it does to stax in type 1 and stay unrestricted flashbacky dude won't be restricted
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
Diving Reckoning - Awesome build around me card.
Fiend Hunter - Uhh, yeah.
Mentor of the Meek - Another build around me card that seems really abusable.
Invisible Stalker - Good already as is, but slap a Sword/Batterskull/Warhammer on him and he brings the beatdown.
Mindshrieker - A 2 drop win condition..yeah.
Snapcaster Mage - Absolutely no thought required for this guy..he is amazingly good and will fit into literally any strategy possible that runs U.
Bloodgift Demon - We like Phyrexian Arena and Graveborn Muse..so how about that effect gets slapped on to a 5/4 flier that can't kill you if you're at 1..absolute win.
Curse of Death's Hold - Kind of iffy on this one, but it seems good.
Diregraf Ghoul - Black's best 1 drop creature ever?
Liliana of the Veil - Yes. No second thoughts here at all.
Reaper of the Abyss - Personally don't like it very much, but the other guys want it in, so it's worth trying.
Devil's Play - Fireballs are the #1 win condition in our cube, so we may as well have one that can be played twice.
Instigator Gang//Wildblood Pack - This guy is insane..if he flips and you actually get to swing with him and friends, it's game over.
Kruin Outlaw//Terror of Kruin Pass - I like this guy being able to attack for 6 evasive damage by himself..and with equipment he just seems insane.
Garruk Relentless//Garruk, the Veil-Cursed - INSANE. SO INSANE. This Garruk does stupid stuff at any point in the game. I love it.
Mayor of Avabruck//Howlpack Alpha - Another 2 drop win condition. Seems really good.
Olivia Voldaren - Yep, she is insane and is a perfect mana sink, and thankfully we somehow still have Lightning Reaver in the cube, so we know a easy replacement.
..and yeah the enemy M10 duals are a welcome addition.
I'm pretty sure he doesn't fit into mono-permanent U decks.
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i think the anthem werewolf is good even if it only flips occasionally. it's a 3/3 anthem for 3R that will be ridiculously huge and alpha-strikey at least once in a game unless you're very unlucky. an aggressive deck won't need to do much after they drop him so it won't be hard to flip him, and how often will your opponent cast two spells in a row multiple turns in a row? the 8 damage + triple anthem should seal the game in one turn, easy. for mid-sized cubes i think it's a shoe in for a trial run at the very least.
i have literally never seen a deck that fits this description. if you are drafting this guy and you don't draft/maindeck any instants or sorceries (in blue?!) that's your fault.
But if it's all permanents... then it's just a 2/1 with flash!
>>
Which is, oddly enough, not that bad.
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Agreed. But that doesn't make it good. From the cutting the number of pro tours, to adding mythics, to adding lands to packs, to the m10 rules changes, to the continue pushing of aggro and creatures in particular, to the way they handle prereleases, to infect, to this, they've consistently made decisions that are disappointing. If the base game wasn't so damned fun I would quit. The reason we whine about so many decisions is that so many of them are bad.
Whereas there are very few positives. The good decisions they've made since Alara block are basically everything about Rise of the Eldrazi and most of the side products (Duel Decks, Premium Series, Commander and FTV) which I will give them credit for as they are all pretty awesome. Even the less successful ones, planechase and archenemy have their appeal. But outside of that not a lot springs to mind of things I've liked about the game recently.
So you're right that it isn't the end of the world. Just another disappointing thing in recent magic. It's the reason I mostly play cube and old set limited on magic-league.
Mono-U permanent decks? The only decks like that I can thing of are the artifact decks, and even those run some spells. I'm definitely excited about Tiago.
I love cards that recur cards from the yard, especially when they're larkable. Set is amazing.
...and that's still absurdly good, right?
Being blue and having flash is no laughing joke.
I don't know of any way to put this better. It just hits on everything. Hell, this is going into the preface of my cube thread.
(deliberate excising of that bit on ROE: I'm still annoyed that annihilator triggers on attack, not combat damage)
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
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Feel free to quote it, though I'd appreciate it if you'd edit my spelling error.
well the only one I have in my cube is champion and he's not leaving. My list atm is not correct as its all being proxied, I was just wondering if he can cut it in 720.
I'm adding him to my 720, and I think he should be very good. We'll have to get some games in to know for sure, but my initial impression is "yes".
(list not current)
My Cube Google Docs Spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AibgWfz0ukmOdDNhOHlucjcxUi1wVy00NDhLbDUtUlE&hl=en_US#gid=8
(list is always current)
Well as soon as the overall number of Magic players starts to go down, I'll agree with you. But if the changes they make are attractive to new players and the total number of players in the game keeps going up, the decisions you and I don't like are still the right ones.
I don't like flip cards. I don't like the new card face, and I don't like the M10 rules changes. But after seeing how the game has grown each and every time they make a change I don't like, it's hard to argue with it. Their job is to keep the game expanding and sell product. They are doing that better now than ever before. So just because I'm a crotchety old Magic player that wants these damn transform cards off my lawn doesn't mean Wizards is doing something wrong. Quite he contrary, the game is stronger than it's ever been, so they're doing something right. Even if I don't like it.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!