For those of you who are MTGO savvy, cheapskates, or just like weird formats, you may know that the Pauper forums here have been very lacking. There are no primers, much less threads, for any of the competitive decks. I know MBC/Mono Black Discard/Mono Black Rats, or what have you, is merely tier 2, 1.5 at best, but it's a cheap deck (I can build about 5 variants of it with the $25 I put in), and it's a good way for players to get acquainted with the format.
Introduction to Mono Black Control
MBC aims to control the game by using creatures that generate card advantage, so that they can 2-for-1 the opponent in a war of attrition. To help that, there are often heavy removal and hand disruption elements. The deck's success on a competitive level relies on an understanding of your opponent, and the meta, which is exactly why I advise new players look into MBC for Pauper. It's fairly easy to learn, but mastering it is all about improving your understanding of rival decks- which makes you better at designing decks of ANY archetype in this format/
Core Cards
While any given deck has lots of room for individual tuning, any competitive deck has a handful of cards that make it what it is. Without most or all of these cards, your list will find itself being sub-par, and incapable of generating sufficient board, and card advantage.
4 Ravenous Rats Your bread and butter 2-for-1. Two mana 1/1 that forces them to discard a card. It's nothing spectacular, but it's cheap, and it gets the job done. If you're playing paper pauper, play Hymm to the Tourach instead. (There are some variants that run VERY LARGE quantities of removal, and don't run this card. More on that later).
3-4 Phyrexian Rager Another great 2-for-1, except this one gives direct Card Advantage (draw) instead of indirect (discard).
4 Chittering Rats Arguably one of the best cards in the deck. It may not seem like much, but it can both help you put an opponent behind, and keep them behind.
3-4 Corrupt Depending on the game, it can be removal, life gain, or a win condition. Very versatile card, and the high CMC is negligible when you consider that it's your main win-con. Becomes slightly worse with Barren Moor, but that is usually negligible.
2 Okiba-Gang Shinobi Very powerful discard effect, but it practically requires ninjutsu, and is high on the curve. 2 is the perfect number for most lists. (There are lists that don't run it MB, but they almost always at least include it SB).
2-3 Crypt Rats The closest we're gonna get to a sweeper. While it used to dominate Pauper, that was years ago. At the moment, it's best as a 2 of, with a 3rd in the sideboard for matchups that involve lots of dudes (Faeries, Goblins). Note that this is gonna be one of your pricier cards, though not by much. A playset will run you roughly $5, depending on your vender. (There are lists with huge removal density that don't run Crypt Rats, more on those later).
3-4 Tendrils of Corruption Lifegain and Removal, can be pivotal against some aggro decks. Depending on how you structure your list, 4 is great.
0-3 Liliana's Specter There's no verdict on it really. It's evasive, and it plays the 2-for-1 game, but it's the most expensive discard, and it's less useful than Chittering Rats in the late game. It is, however, useful in some matchups. If you do run it, use it as a 2 of, with a third in the Sideboard.
Utility, Removal, and Card Advantage that's not on a stick
3 Barren Moor It may not seem great, but it can be crucial to have. Depending on whether or not you run the Moor, your list should either have 22 swamps, or 20 swamps and 3 Barren Moo.
4 Sign in Blood At least 3 will go a long way to increasing your staying power and consistency, especially since we run very few lands.
The Difference between Removal and Kill-Spells.
Before going into this section, I'll go ahead and mention the difference between Removal and a Kill-Spell. While both mean the same thing in general Magic terminology, I'll be using the term "Kill-Spell" for anything that causes a creature to be Destroyed, Sacrificed, or Exiled, and the term Removal for anything that gives a creature -x/-x, or deals damage based on some other factor. I recommend you run around 6 Kill Spells and 3-4 Removal spells. Kill Spells
Victim of Night The other card tied for the best kill spell. Doesn't hit hexproof/shroud/Protection, but it does hit almost everything. I don't mention Doom Blade, because blade isn't as good as Victim.
Innocent Blood Another popular spell. It's cheap removal, usually sideboarded against decks that you might struggle to keep creatures on the board against anyway. Infect Stompy and Goblins come to mind.
Unmake Shows up as a 2-of in a handful of lists, most of which run a VERY high amount of answers.
Removal
Echoing Decay Mandatory to have 4 of them between your mainboard and sideboard. Period. Keeping 3 or 4 in the Maindeck gives you a lot of room to diversify your sideboard. For a quick idea of this thing's usefulness, it can snap Faeries like a twig, can be relevant against Goblins, and makes TEPS (The Epic Pauper Storm) an even easier matchup.
Disfigure I'm sure there's a reason to run it, as a lot of decks that place in dailies have some. It's the least diverse of all kill spells, though it can provide a nice tempo boost.
Grasp of Darkness Generally very good to have. It hits anything (an advantage over most Kill-Spells), and is the most powerful (hits the biggest durdles) of all Removal spells. Not mandatory, but worth using.
Dead Weight A pretty decent sideboard card. It's very good if you're worried about decks just pumping past your removal. Atog is the most notorious offender.
Wring Flesh A worthy addition to some sideboards, but I don't suggest it. You're usually better off running Disfigure.
Serrated Arrows Surprisingly common, with 3-4 copies showing up in most lists. Most of the time, you keep it in the sideboard, but some removal heavy builds use them mainboard. The card is relevant against WW, Faeries, Goblins, and to a lesser extent; the mirror match.
Death Denied Depending on your deck, this thing can be a house as a 1 of (with a second in the board), or a 2 of. It's absolutely amazing against control and midrange, if not quite as good against aggro and combo.
Befoul Mediocre, but not unplayable in the sideboard. You almost always want Choking Sands over this, though some decks opt for a 2/2 split.
Unearth Amazing card in a lot of decks, to the point where I would almost add it to the Core (except it only shows up in about half of placing lists). It lets you bring back your cards for further gain, and is definitely a great top-deck.
Grim Harvest Some decks don't run it, some run it as a 1-of MB, some as a 2-of SB. Lot of variance here, and it's a personal decision on whether to play this, Unearth (arguably the best choice), or Death Denied.
Disruption, further Sideboard ideas, and other ways of "trolling," your opponent.
Duress A mainstay of many lists. Generally shows up in either your main board or side board. I wouldn't call it mandatory, but it's definitely a very good card to have 3 of in your 75.
Wrench Mind Against most of the format, it can completely wreck hands. Against Affinity, not so much, but most of your hand disruption is SBed out against Affinity anyway.
Bojuka Bog Not the most obvious way to disrupt the opponent, but it's a relevant mainboard 1-2 of. You don't always want it, since it hurts your Swamp count for Corrupt, but it can do a lot of damage to 8post decks (especially U/R), since it can shut down their engines. It's also relevant in the mirror match.
Choking Sands Because seriously, no one likes playing against 8 post.
Shrivel I wouldn't say it's worse than Echoing Decay, just a lot less versatile. A decent backup if you're expecting TEPS or Fae. Also useful against Goblins, since they run a lot of little dudes with an annoying way of dodging removal.
Dead Weight At a glance, it's just a worse Disfigure. But look a bit deeper, and you see the word "Aura." If you've ever been pissed off by an Atog or Goblin that just won't die, you may want this as a 2 of in the sideboard.
Also why would you only play 3 barron moor? wouldn't 16 4 be better? Seems like if i need land i have it and late game if i get flooded i can cycle it. so that 17th swamp would be better as a moor.
Obviously this topic is aimed at MTGO, but IRL paper pauper, what should be cut for hymm (I'm assuming hymm would be an auto 4-of in this deck if it was online as a common)
Also why would you only play 3 barron moor? wouldn't 16 4 be better? Seems like if i need land i have it and late game if i get flooded i can cycle it. so that 17th swamp would be better as a moor.
Obviously this topic is aimed at MTGO, but IRL paper pauper, what should be cut for hymm (I'm assuming hymm would be an auto 4-of in this deck if it was online as a common)
16:4 may well be better, dunno. I based that number off of the lists that placed for dailies, almost all of which ran 3 barren moors. The full 4 of means you have 1 more land that CIPTs, and 1 more land that counts against your Corrupt/Tendrils count.
I would personally say Wrench Mind can go for Hymn in IRL Pauper. Just my opinion though.
Except that Wrench Mind isn't an auto-4-of MB. Hymm can crush a lot of decks, so I'll go ahead and say put it in the slot where Ravenous Rats would go. There are other power cards for paper, but I guess that's the most important difference between MTGO/Paper MBC.
Ah did not think about tendrils and corrupt, ya maybe 17/3 is better
Does this deck normally win with corrupt to the face, or through creature damage? Should we treat corrupt as a win-con more than removal? or because of all the discard, the goal is to do 20 with something like a ravenous rat?
Reading through the lists, you should definitely mention the Bojuka Bog as a sideboard possibility; nobody really runs tortured existence decks or threshold decks right now, but I think the bog will start coming in against blue/whatever post decks with all kinds of flashback cards and 4 accumulated knowledges.
Ah did not think about tendrils and corrupt, ya maybe 17/3 is better
Does this deck normally win with corrupt to the face, or through creature damage? Should we treat corrupt as a win-con more than removal? or because of all the discard, the goal is to do 20 with something like a ravenous rat?
Ratios like 19/4 and 20/4 are starting to show up, which is weird. Those lists are these weird anomalies that run insane levels of removal though.
It depends on the game really. Corrupt is usually supposed to be pointed at their face, but you shouldn't be afraid to get rid of an Ulamog's Crusher or similarly dangerous card with it. Corrupt is great for its utility, tbh.
Reading through the lists, you should definitely mention the Bojuka Bog as a sideboard possibility; nobody really runs tortured existence decks or threshold decks right now, but I think the bog will start coming in against blue/whatever post decks with all kinds of flashback cards and 4 accumulated knowledges.
Yeah, I'll add that at some point tonight. It seems that Bog and RoP aren't uncommon. I'll just start looking at dailies to see exactly which decks it can hit.
Alright, finally figured out what to put with my Bojuka Bog entry, gonna add Serrated Arrows to the list, and I'm gonna start work on variants of the list (gonna mention the difference between Traditional Mono-Black Rats, Disruption Heavy Mono Black Discard, and the Removal Heavy Mono Black Control at some point).
Cool to see someone take the time to make a decent primer. I guess that means we can make primers for other decks...I look forward to seeing some more of the established archetypes getting some primers.
If I had the money, I would do them all my myself. I'm hoping to kind of invigorate the community here, so I'll probably PM people who seem knowledgeable in their respective archetypes.
Anyway, I'll start work on the "Variants" section right now.
You could do primers for the other arch-types to the best of your knowledge for now to get them going.
I spoke to someone, and they said they were working on a Boros Landfall primer, and I might make a rudimentary Affinity Primer. You be interested in doing one?
I don't know the meta so I can't saw why certain cards should be in or out beyond some of the obvious ones like 8-Post hate. Also I'm better at suggesting things then I am at creating them.
Prices vary all the time so its hard to say what there going for. On MTGOTraders.Com there currently going for 2.08 or 3.20 each as shown HERE and HERE
Those are all to slow for competitive use when you have better spells to use like Unearth.
Prices vary all the time so its hard to say what there going for. On MTGOTraders.Com there currently going for 2.08 or 3.20 each as shown HERE and HERE
Those are all to slow for competitive use when you have better spells to use like Unearth.
It was 5-6 tix, not that bad. About $2 a piece. Prices fluctuate a lot though.
Neros is right, there are even a ton of somewhat sub-par spells you'd rather use, such as Disturbed Burial, which is somewhat worse than Grim Harvest. The spells you listed are all high on CMC, which is troublesome for a deck that runs between 19 and 24 lands, and that relies on disruption to survive until it can Corrupt.
A note on the Bojuka Bog/relic of progenitus/nihil spellbomb: if the E. Hustle w/b tortured existence deck (see this daily event) catches on, these are going to be absolutely necessary, as the deck completely murders MBC (especially the discard-oriented variant) at the moment.
Not having too many problems against agro decks obv, or combo with a good SB. But there is no way I win vs that izzepost red blue deck hard control. They get too many cards from flashback, so my discard is not that effective. My creatures do not generate any pression at all, or they get burned...
Izzet Post is pretty much MBC's bad match-up. The UR player can just laugh at you as he pitches Think Twice to your rats, draws a million cards, regains all the life he lost to your attacks with a Glimmerpost, counters your Corrupt, and then resolves Ulamog's Crusher.
You can't win them all, really. A build of MBC that can do well against UR Post would either be very metagamed against it, to the point of losing percentage against all other decks, or it would be unrecognizable.
The fact is, UR post draws more cards and just has a better late game than you, since they have both Condescend to beat Corrupt and Rolling Thunder to kill you with no ifs or buts. So you have to be the beatdown against them! Yet, MBC plays a bunch of undersized guys, often has a very low threat density, and is very vulnerable to being stalled by Glimmerposts and fat-assed guys like Sea Gate Oracle. MBC, with its Corrupt and its Raven's Crime, likes being the control deck against everybody else. Being forced into that beatdown position by a deck with an even more absurd late game is very, very damaging.
What you can do is sideboard specific hate against Post decks, mostly in the form of land destruction. Izzet Post has a really, really deranged mana base, and it compensates for it with Prophetic Prism. It also has a game plan revolving around repeatedly resolving CMC 6 and up spells. With some good black LD, you might be able to deny them mana and tempo them out... but don't count on it. More aggressive versions that are more capable of presenting a real threat do better against UR Post, I think.
You can also read the primer to learn more about the deck and understand how it works. Ah, there I go sabotaging myself on Modo...
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On average, Magic players are worse at new card evaluation than almost every other skill, except perhaps sideboarding.
Guys…I feel like this conversation has been unfocused, moving away from cards that make my day. Cards like Sinkhole, which I think people have been moving away from. My list only runs four creatures (Crypt Rats, if you must know) and focuses on making them completely run out of gas, Corrupting for the win. This only works because of the huge damage output of a late-game rat, combined with the life gain of Tendrils of Agony and Corrupt. The long game is normally rewarded with a good pay-off, and I almost always walk away happy. Cards like Sinkhole completely wreck aggro, especially when you are on the play, even more than Hymn. Also, I run 2 copies of Snuff Out mainboard, people might have forgot it was a common.
The second is guaranteed as a T1 deck that is really good, plus its' mana is better. I would choose #2. However, Eminem is correct, comes down to preference. Eminem was not correct, however, for tying Rihanna to the bed and setting the house on fire.
Sinkhole and Hymn To the Tourach are both Rare and Uncommon (respectively) on MTGO, which means that neither are technically pauper legal (though it's too much work to enforce that in Paper).
I can't comment on the viability of your list, as it would be much akin to taking a legacy legal deck to an extended tournament, tbh. The power levels are way off. I'd imagine that Discard is extremely potent in paper, where combos and similar non-creature strategies are valuable. In MODO, however, the game works differently.
Creature-low (8 or so critters) decks are highly viable on MODO, and they run 4 Chittering Rats with 4 Phyrexian Rager. They run cards like Duress and Wrench Mind to disrupt combo, and then run very large quantities of MB Sweeps, Removal, and -x/-x spells. This improves their ability to deal with WW, Infect, and Goblins, and the combination of proper discard with sweepers absolutely recks TEPS. The variant completely concedes to traditional or 8-post control, as it lacks much staying power against decks like U/B control, and U/R 8post borders on auto lose as is. The matchup against Faeries, and similar Mono Blue, U/R, or U/B tempo/aggro-control decks is borderline auto-win. Why?
Wait, isn't it pauper legal if it was printed at a common at any point in time? Sorry, I'm new to it, but wouldn't that make hymn and sinkhole legal? Also, I don't play on MODO, I do all my testing on MWS/paper.
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The second is guaranteed as a T1 deck that is really good, plus its' mana is better. I would choose #2. However, Eminem is correct, comes down to preference. Eminem was not correct, however, for tying Rihanna to the bed and setting the house on fire.
Wait, isn't it pauper legal if it was printed at a common at any point in time? Sorry, I'm new to it, but wouldn't that make hymn and sinkhole legal? Also, I don't play on MODO, I do all my testing on MWS/paper.
Pauper isn't a DCI sanctioned format, so in organised play on paper, you should check the banned list and legality with your TO. On Magic Online, cards are legal in Pauper if they were released as common in any online set; this excludes cards that were never released online (Very few) and cards that were commons in early sets but had their rarity bumped in later reprints or in Master's Edition. Hymn to Tourach only exists online as a Master's Edition reprint that is uncommon, so it's not legal in Pauper online.
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On average, Magic players are worse at new card evaluation than almost every other skill, except perhaps sideboarding.
Pauper isn't a DCI sanctioned format, so in organised play on paper, you should check the banned list and legality with your TO. On Magic Online, cards are legal in Pauper if they were released as common in any online set; this excludes cards that were never released online (Very few) and cards that were commons in early sets but had their rarity bumped in later reprints or in Master's Edition. Hymn to Tourach only exists online as a Master's Edition reprint that is uncommon, so it's not legal in Pauper online.
QFT.
The most effective way to do paper is to try and stay as close to MTGO as possible. Always talk to your TO about stupid **** like Hymn and Sinkhole, or some combo enablers. They might be fine with a higher power level, or want to ensure balance.
For those of you who are MTGO savvy, cheapskates, or just like weird formats, you may know that the Pauper forums here have been very lacking. There are no primers, much less threads, for any of the competitive decks. I know MBC/Mono Black Discard/Mono Black Rats, or what have you, is merely tier 2, 1.5 at best, but it's a cheap deck (I can build about 5 variants of it with the $25 I put in), and it's a good way for players to get acquainted with the format.
Introduction to Mono Black Control
MBC aims to control the game by using creatures that generate card advantage, so that they can 2-for-1 the opponent in a war of attrition. To help that, there are often heavy removal and hand disruption elements. The deck's success on a competitive level relies on an understanding of your opponent, and the meta, which is exactly why I advise new players look into MBC for Pauper. It's fairly easy to learn, but mastering it is all about improving your understanding of rival decks- which makes you better at designing decks of ANY archetype in this format/
Core Cards
While any given deck has lots of room for individual tuning, any competitive deck has a handful of cards that make it what it is. Without most or all of these cards, your list will find itself being sub-par, and incapable of generating sufficient board, and card advantage.
4 Ravenous Rats Your bread and butter 2-for-1. Two mana 1/1 that forces them to discard a card. It's nothing spectacular, but it's cheap, and it gets the job done. If you're playing paper pauper, play Hymm to the Tourach instead. (There are some variants that run VERY LARGE quantities of removal, and don't run this card. More on that later).
3-4 Phyrexian Rager Another great 2-for-1, except this one gives direct Card Advantage (draw) instead of indirect (discard).
4 Chittering Rats Arguably one of the best cards in the deck. It may not seem like much, but it can both help you put an opponent behind, and keep them behind.
3-4 Corrupt Depending on the game, it can be removal, life gain, or a win condition. Very versatile card, and the high CMC is negligible when you consider that it's your main win-con. Becomes slightly worse with Barren Moor, but that is usually negligible.
2 Okiba-Gang Shinobi Very powerful discard effect, but it practically requires ninjutsu, and is high on the curve. 2 is the perfect number for most lists. (There are lists that don't run it MB, but they almost always at least include it SB).
2-3 Crypt Rats The closest we're gonna get to a sweeper. While it used to dominate Pauper, that was years ago. At the moment, it's best as a 2 of, with a 3rd in the sideboard for matchups that involve lots of dudes (Faeries, Goblins). Note that this is gonna be one of your pricier cards, though not by much. A playset will run you roughly $5, depending on your vender. (There are lists with huge removal density that don't run Crypt Rats, more on those later).
3-4 Tendrils of Corruption Lifegain and Removal, can be pivotal against some aggro decks. Depending on how you structure your list, 4 is great.
0-3 Liliana's Specter There's no verdict on it really. It's evasive, and it plays the 2-for-1 game, but it's the most expensive discard, and it's less useful than Chittering Rats in the late game. It is, however, useful in some matchups. If you do run it, use it as a 2 of, with a third in the Sideboard.
Utility, Removal, and Card Advantage that's not on a stick
3 Barren Moor It may not seem great, but it can be crucial to have. Depending on whether or not you run the Moor, your list should either have 22 swamps, or 20 swamps and 3 Barren Moo.
4 Sign in Blood At least 3 will go a long way to increasing your staying power and consistency, especially since we run very few lands.
The Difference between Removal and Kill-Spells.
Before going into this section, I'll go ahead and mention the difference between Removal and a Kill-Spell. While both mean the same thing in general Magic terminology, I'll be using the term "Kill-Spell" for anything that causes a creature to be Destroyed, Sacrificed, or Exiled, and the term Removal for anything that gives a creature -x/-x, or deals damage based on some other factor. I recommend you run around 6 Kill Spells and 3-4 Removal spells.
Kill Spells
Geth's Verdict Tied for being the best kill-spell. It's 2 cmc, instant, deals marginal damage, and bypasses hexproof/shroud, and Guardian of the Guildpact.
Victim of Night The other card tied for the best kill spell. Doesn't hit hexproof/shroud/Protection, but it does hit almost everything. I don't mention Doom Blade, because blade isn't as good as Victim.
Innocent Blood Another popular spell. It's cheap removal, usually sideboarded against decks that you might struggle to keep creatures on the board against anyway. Infect Stompy and Goblins come to mind.
Unmake Shows up as a 2-of in a handful of lists, most of which run a VERY high amount of answers.
RemovalEchoing Decay Mandatory to have 4 of them between your mainboard and sideboard. Period. Keeping 3 or 4 in the Maindeck gives you a lot of room to diversify your sideboard. For a quick idea of this thing's usefulness, it can snap Faeries like a twig, can be relevant against Goblins, and makes TEPS (The Epic Pauper Storm) an even easier matchup.
Disfigure I'm sure there's a reason to run it, as a lot of decks that place in dailies have some. It's the least diverse of all kill spells, though it can provide a nice tempo boost.
Grasp of Darkness Generally very good to have. It hits anything (an advantage over most Kill-Spells), and is the most powerful (hits the biggest durdles) of all Removal spells. Not mandatory, but worth using.
Dead Weight A pretty decent sideboard card. It's very good if you're worried about decks just pumping past your removal. Atog is the most notorious offender.
Wring Flesh A worthy addition to some sideboards, but I don't suggest it. You're usually better off running Disfigure.
Serrated Arrows Surprisingly common, with 3-4 copies showing up in most lists. Most of the time, you keep it in the sideboard, but some removal heavy builds use them mainboard. The card is relevant against WW, Faeries, Goblins, and to a lesser extent; the mirror match.
Death Denied Depending on your deck, this thing can be a house as a 1 of (with a second in the board), or a 2 of. It's absolutely amazing against control and midrange, if not quite as good against aggro and combo.
Befoul Mediocre, but not unplayable in the sideboard. You almost always want Choking Sands over this, though some decks opt for a 2/2 split.
Unearth Amazing card in a lot of decks, to the point where I would almost add it to the Core (except it only shows up in about half of placing lists). It lets you bring back your cards for further gain, and is definitely a great top-deck.
Grim Harvest Some decks don't run it, some run it as a 1-of MB, some as a 2-of SB. Lot of variance here, and it's a personal decision on whether to play this, Unearth (arguably the best choice), or Death Denied.
Disruption, further Sideboard ideas, and other ways of "trolling," your opponent.
Duress A mainstay of many lists. Generally shows up in either your main board or side board. I wouldn't call it mandatory, but it's definitely a very good card to have 3 of in your 75.
Wrench Mind Against most of the format, it can completely wreck hands. Against Affinity, not so much, but most of your hand disruption is SBed out against Affinity anyway.
Bojuka Bog Not the most obvious way to disrupt the opponent, but it's a relevant mainboard 1-2 of. You don't always want it, since it hurts your Swamp count for Corrupt, but it can do a lot of damage to 8post decks (especially U/R), since it can shut down their engines. It's also relevant in the mirror match.
Choking Sands Because seriously, no one likes playing against 8 post.
Shrivel I wouldn't say it's worse than Echoing Decay, just a lot less versatile. A decent backup if you're expecting TEPS or Fae. Also useful against Goblins, since they run a lot of little dudes with an annoying way of dodging removal.
Dead Weight At a glance, it's just a worse Disfigure. But look a bit deeper, and you see the word "Aura." If you've ever been pissed off by an Atog or Goblin that just won't die, you may want this as a 2 of in the sideboard.
2 Barren Moor
20 Swamp
4 Chittering Rats
4 Liliana's Specter
2 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
4 Phyrexian Rager
4 Ravenous Rats
2 Disfigure
2 Doom Blade
2 Echoing Decay
4 Geth's Verdict
4 Sign in Blood
3 Tendrils of Corruption
2 Befoul
2 Choking Sands
2 Disfigure
4 Duress
2 Echoing Decay
3 Wrench Mind
4 Barren Moor
20 Swamp
//8 Creatures
4 Chittering Rats
4 Phyrexian Rager
//28 Spells
2 Corrupt
4 Dead Weight
4 Echoing Decay
4 Geth's Verdict
4 Serrated Arrows
4 Sign in Blood
2 Unmake
4 Victim of Night
1 Brush with Death
4 Distress
4 Duress
4 Shrivel
2 Wail of the Nim
3 Barren Moor
1 Bojuka Bog
19 Swamp
//13 Creatures
4 Chittering Rats
3 Crypt Rats
2 Liliana's Specter
4 Phyrexian Rager
3 Corrupt
3 Echoing Decay
4 Geth's Verdict
4 Sign in Blood
4 Tendrils of Corruption
2 Unearth
3 Victim of Night
1 Wrench Mind
3 Duress
2 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
3 Rancid Earth
3 Serrated Arrows
1 Victim of Night
3 Wrench Mind
3 Barren Moor
20 Swamp
//16 Creatures
4 Chittering Rats
2 Liliana's Specter
2 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
4 Phyrexian Rager
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Corrupt
2 Echoing Decay
3 Geth's Verdict
2 Grasp of Darkness
4 Sign in Blood
4 Tendrils of Corruption
2 Wrench Mind
2 Doom Blade
4 Duress
2 Echoing Decay
1 Geth's Verdict
2 Grim Harvest
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Wrench Mind
MORE TO COME!
Thank you for reading. I greatly appreciate feedback, criticism, suggestions, and discussion.
TO DO LIST:
Detailed Match-ups section
Info on variants, such as Mono Black Rats, Mono Black Discard, and Mono Black Control (With a ton of removal).
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Also why would you only play 3 barron moor? wouldn't 16 4 be better? Seems like if i need land i have it and late game if i get flooded i can cycle it. so that 17th swamp would be better as a moor.
Obviously this topic is aimed at MTGO, but IRL paper pauper, what should be cut for hymm (I'm assuming hymm would be an auto 4-of in this deck if it was online as a common)
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16:4 may well be better, dunno. I based that number off of the lists that placed for dailies, almost all of which ran 3 barren moors. The full 4 of means you have 1 more land that CIPTs, and 1 more land that counts against your Corrupt/Tendrils count.
I'll grab a sample decklist or two right now.
Except that Wrench Mind isn't an auto-4-of MB. Hymm can crush a lot of decks, so I'll go ahead and say put it in the slot where Ravenous Rats would go. There are other power cards for paper, but I guess that's the most important difference between MTGO/Paper MBC.
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Does this deck normally win with corrupt to the face, or through creature damage? Should we treat corrupt as a win-con more than removal? or because of all the discard, the goal is to do 20 with something like a ravenous rat?
MOD::symw::symu::symb: Gifts
LEG::symg::symb: Infect
Ratios like 19/4 and 20/4 are starting to show up, which is weird. Those lists are these weird anomalies that run insane levels of removal though.
It depends on the game really. Corrupt is usually supposed to be pointed at their face, but you shouldn't be afraid to get rid of an Ulamog's Crusher or similarly dangerous card with it. Corrupt is great for its utility, tbh.
Yeah, I'll add that at some point tonight. It seems that Bog and RoP aren't uncommon. I'll just start looking at dailies to see exactly which decks it can hit.
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(Siggy adapted, DarkHunter1357 (deviantART))
So uh, I guess I'll even add a to-do list.
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If I had the money, I would do them all my myself. I'm hoping to kind of invigorate the community here, so I'll probably PM people who seem knowledgeable in their respective archetypes.
Anyway, I'll start work on the "Variants" section right now.
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I spoke to someone, and they said they were working on a Boros Landfall primer, and I might make a rudimentary Affinity Primer. You be interested in doing one?
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Prices vary all the time so its hard to say what there going for. On MTGOTraders.Com there currently going for 2.08 or 3.20 each as shown HERE and HERE
Those are all to slow for competitive use when you have better spells to use like Unearth.
QFT.
It was 5-6 tix, not that bad. About $2 a piece. Prices fluctuate a lot though.
Neros is right, there are even a ton of somewhat sub-par spells you'd rather use, such as Disturbed Burial, which is somewhat worse than Grim Harvest. The spells you listed are all high on CMC, which is troublesome for a deck that runs between 19 and 24 lands, and that relies on disruption to survive until it can Corrupt.
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Izzet Post is pretty much MBC's bad match-up. The UR player can just laugh at you as he pitches Think Twice to your rats, draws a million cards, regains all the life he lost to your attacks with a Glimmerpost, counters your Corrupt, and then resolves Ulamog's Crusher.
You can't win them all, really. A build of MBC that can do well against UR Post would either be very metagamed against it, to the point of losing percentage against all other decks, or it would be unrecognizable.
The fact is, UR post draws more cards and just has a better late game than you, since they have both Condescend to beat Corrupt and Rolling Thunder to kill you with no ifs or buts. So you have to be the beatdown against them! Yet, MBC plays a bunch of undersized guys, often has a very low threat density, and is very vulnerable to being stalled by Glimmerposts and fat-assed guys like Sea Gate Oracle. MBC, with its Corrupt and its Raven's Crime, likes being the control deck against everybody else. Being forced into that beatdown position by a deck with an even more absurd late game is very, very damaging.
What you can do is sideboard specific hate against Post decks, mostly in the form of land destruction. Izzet Post has a really, really deranged mana base, and it compensates for it with Prophetic Prism. It also has a game plan revolving around repeatedly resolving CMC 6 and up spells. With some good black LD, you might be able to deny them mana and tempo them out... but don't count on it. More aggressive versions that are more capable of presenting a real threat do better against UR Post, I think.
You can also read the primer to learn more about the deck and understand how it works. Ah, there I go sabotaging myself on Modo...
I think roughly 45:55 is the best we can get that matchup, if you prep for heavy aggro.
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Stanard:
WR Grenadier
WW White Grenadier WW
Legacy:
BG 1EverythingGB
Casual:
R AllOutAggro R (49-3)
I can't comment on the viability of your list, as it would be much akin to taking a legacy legal deck to an extended tournament, tbh. The power levels are way off. I'd imagine that Discard is extremely potent in paper, where combos and similar non-creature strategies are valuable. In MODO, however, the game works differently.
Creature-low (8 or so critters) decks are highly viable on MODO, and they run 4 Chittering Rats with 4 Phyrexian Rager. They run cards like Duress and Wrench Mind to disrupt combo, and then run very large quantities of MB Sweeps, Removal, and -x/-x spells. This improves their ability to deal with WW, Infect, and Goblins, and the combination of proper discard with sweepers absolutely recks TEPS. The variant completely concedes to traditional or 8-post control, as it lacks much staying power against decks like U/B control, and U/R 8post borders on auto lose as is. The matchup against Faeries, and similar Mono Blue, U/R, or U/B tempo/aggro-control decks is borderline auto-win. Why?
Echoing Decay.
That card makes the deck, if you ask me. Nothing is more satisfying than making a Spellstutter Sprite fizzle because you just killed two Cloud of Faeries. Nothing more satisfying than staring a storm player in the eyes as he casts Empty The Warrens for fifteen, then kill all his goblins. Or killing a stack of goblins with it, and laughing at Mogg Raider (or even just fizzling damage off a Sparksmith by drastically reducing the count). Or saying to a WW player, "Can your Benevolent Bodyguard give them ALL protection from black?" The sheer utility it offers is rivaled by no other spell in the format, though you're free to try. Maybe Brainstorm, but that's a close race in a fetchless format.
EDIT: On Snuff Out: Seems solid, I haven't tested it yet though.
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Hurr-durr, don't I know my rules? Thanks for catching that.
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Stanard:
WR Grenadier
WW White Grenadier WW
Legacy:
BG 1EverythingGB
Casual:
R AllOutAggro R (49-3)
Pauper isn't a DCI sanctioned format, so in organised play on paper, you should check the banned list and legality with your TO. On Magic Online, cards are legal in Pauper if they were released as common in any online set; this excludes cards that were never released online (Very few) and cards that were commons in early sets but had their rarity bumped in later reprints or in Master's Edition. Hymn to Tourach only exists online as a Master's Edition reprint that is uncommon, so it's not legal in Pauper online.
QFT.
The most effective way to do paper is to try and stay as close to MTGO as possible. Always talk to your TO about stupid **** like Hymn and Sinkhole, or some combo enablers. They might be fine with a higher power level, or want to ensure balance.
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