People, True Believer is not the way to go. This is not the first time this card has been discussed. True Believer was in the main of this deck for quite some time, but there are now better cards available. Ethersworn Canonist, for one, is a far better answer. It not only prevents ANT from accumulating the storm count on the critical turn, it also inhibits their ability to go off in the first place. And it can be tutored for with Enlightened Tutor.
Angel's Grace is completely useless. You simply die as soon as the turn is over.
Children of Korlis is not a good sb card. I am only fooling with it in the main because I really need a good creature for exactly W in the main. ~still do~
Runed Halo, I rather like these days because it is also good against Reanimator and Progenitals.
Orim's Chant is good, as always. I can't decide if I like it better than Mindbreak Trap. A fair bit of testing has not helped me decide either.
Hope this helps.
EDIT: the deal with Meekstone is peculiar. I have discovered that the Reanimator decks won't go for Iona once they see Karakas. Since Iona is the biggest reason to use Meekstone, I currently do not have one in the board.
People, True Believer is not the way to go. This is not the first time this card has been discussed. True Believer was in the main of this deck for quite some time, but there are now better cards available. Ethersworn Canonist, for one, is a far better answer. It not only prevents ANT from accumulating the storm count on the critical turn, it also inhibits their ability to go off in the first place. And it can be tutored for with Enlightened Tutor.
Angel's Grace is completely useless. You simply die as soon as the turn is over.
Children of Korlis is not a good sb card. I am only fooling with it in the main because I really need a good creature for exactly W in the main. ~still do~
Runed Halo, I rather like these days because it is also good against Reanimator and Progenitals.
Orim's Chant is good, as always. I can't decide if I like it better than Mindbreak Trap. A fair bit of testing has not helped me decide either.
Hope this helps.
EDIT: the deal with Meekstone is peculiar. I have discovered that the Reanimator decks won't go for Iona once they see Karakas. Since Iona is the biggest reason to use Meekstone, I currently do not have one in the board.
Your reasoning for not using Meekstone is the reason I do. I found the reanimator play against me to be Inkwell Leviathan and unless I have an equipped creature and Mother of Runes out then it is very tough to handle w/o Meekstone. Plus it has value against aggro-loam and survival.
In terms of sb space, I am currently using Runed Halo in that spot. When facing Progenitus, they are nearly the same (Rune is a bit better here, but similar). Reanimator - again very similar. ANT - one is completely useless, and one is a significant defense. And that makes all the difference to me. Since I would certainly only be using one of each, the random hose jobs it does are probably comparable to Meekstone.
I am liking Beckon Apparition for the elusive one-drop "creature."
It has flying, it has flash, it is pertinent against the rising best deck in the format and it hurts most of the other decks (graveyard-wise), it kills Goblin Lackey.
It might precipitate a change to the whole D&T deck though; maybe a move to Isochron Scepter. It encourages keeping one white open on turn 1. Maybe promoting Mana Tithe. Maybe promoting Flooded Strand, etc. "just in case." Possibly opening the door to White/Black, especially with the Scepter plan, for Diabolic Edict or something.
Beckon Apparition looks really interesting...at the least a good SB card against Reanimator, and could shrink Goyfs (a little) at instant speed, while providing a 1/1 that can carry equipment or chump, warrants testing.
Anyways, here's my freshly assembled G/W list I've been testing and will be bringing to a local legacy tourney on Sunday.
So, I took this build to a tournament last week as well, and did okay (keep in mind, however, I hadn't played in over 3 months, and was pretty rusty). First match-up was against Canadian Thresh, went 2-0. My Goyfs matched his, I drew enough threats to empty his hands of counters (filling up my GY as well), and 5/6 Goyfs won me the games.
Second match-up was against aggro elves. I had to mull to 5 first game, and again second game (bad luck). He raced me, and was simply too big, too many, too fast. Also, forestwalk really sucks. I miss my mass removal in my board...but wasn't expecting elves. 0-2
Third match-up was against mono-white soldiers, a little janky, but surprisingly efficient. This was annoying, won 1, lost 1, and only had 7 minutes left for the third round, so we drew it. Second game there were 4 Moms on the table (2 mine, 2 his) so that stalled the game for far too long, and I couldn't draw into threats while he beat me down with a bunch of obnoxious 2/2s.
Fourth match-up was against Dredge. I had no graveyard hate in my board (having never needed it in my local meta before) and I regretted it. I almost pulled off some Jitte tech with 2 counters equipped on a Mystic to remove his bridges, but it was too little too late, I really, really hate combo losses on turn 2. Hate hate hate. 0-2
A janky rogue reanimator deck using "no cards over $5 to make a point" ended up winning 1st to everyone's surprise, go figure, GY HATE.
So I changed my sideboard around, added the Crypts and Relics to my board for GY hate, while still keeping a few Living Wish targets (which I've grown fond of, acting as a 3rd or 4th Mangara, Karakas, or Pridemage is pretty useful), combo-hate, and the almighty K-Grips.
I really wish I had a couple Cataclysms, if I did I would probably test them in the board in Grips spot for match-ups such as the elves, or any other aggro deck.
I went from 2 Jittes down to 1 because I found myself rarely ever tutoring for them, most of the time grabbing the swords, so I decided to try out a Basilisk Collar, didn't get to play with it really at all, but I think it seems powerful...
Has anybody ever tried Sylvan Library in a G/W version? I think it's a powerful draw engine, but 4 life is a hefty price (although Jitte, Collar, SoLaS, and Finks all can gain life, so it might be worth testing..). And then room in the MD would need to be found somewhere..what do you think?
@TrollMetalJacket: After testing I found that Living Wish, while having a lot of potential (I ran a Bojuka Bog on the side- !!!), usually was both slowing the deck when it wasn't key AND too slow when it was needed (wishing for a canonist against combo, for example). That made me think, and I found inspiration in Finn's Enlightened Tutor-based sideboard. If you look at my list, you'll see that everything is fetchable with the tutor and you have something for every prominent deck in the format. It is interesting that in Artifacts + GW Enchantments you have the tools to beat EVERY deck in the format, so you just have to sculpt it to fit your metagame.
Also, I was intrigued by the lack of Gaddock Teeg in your list. Is that a metagame decision? For me it's one of the deck's MVP, as it negates a lot of important cards (Tendrils, Force, Natural Order, Planeswalkers, Smokestack, Dread Return, Engineered Explosives...).
Regarding Basilisk's Collar, I have dropped it in favor of Behemoth Sledge. IMO, the deathtouch is usually irrelevant and I like the fact that even a Stoneforge Mystic or a Mother of Runes is a threat when equipped.
I am also interested in testing Sylvan Library or Mirri's Guile, but I haven't got into that yet. Card selection is always welcome and the fact that the library offers conditional card advantage seems pretty cool.
@Finn and all: If you're tired of losing against combo, switch to the GW version. You have much more weapons to fight it. Seriously, I'm having no worries in beating ANT match after match...and Dredge is winnable too unless they have a god hand (but anyways, few decks can win that). As for the 1-drop dilemma, I am running 4 Loam Lion and they're cool. In my deck they're almost strictly better than Isamaru, and they apply a lot of pressure. This important in most matchups, including Goblins (sorry lackey :D) and ANT/Reanimator (their chance to have a game-wining Ad Nauseam/Reanimate is directly related to their life total).
Hmm, you make alot of valid points...I had 2x Gaddock Teeg in the SB for a while, but I never really found a time that I wanted to side them in...do they really work well enough for MD? They just seem to me like it'd be a bear that might shut down something in the opponents deck, and a card that might do something is hard for me when it's such a frail creature.. Also it should be noted that I haven't played in months, so I have no idea where my meta currently sits, so I can't really make any educated decisions yet...but I may try a couple MD in Kitchen Finks' slot..
Living Wish is a little slow, and I may take it out in the long run, but I think it warrants more testing. Being able to grab a Karakas or Mangara is good for me (you don't run these, so I understand why it wouldn't be optimal for you) but a single Bojuka Bog in the SB is a good idea...
Also, I was wondering how you had room for all these amazing creatures, and then I realized that you don't run 4x Flickerwisp. These guys are MVPs to me, and I can't imagine not running them, they reset everything. How has it been running without them?
An enlightened tutor SB toolbox is a great idea though, and I'll toy with the idea, I was just always shunned with any mention of Enlightened Tutor due to its card disadvantage...but I appreciate it's flexibility. Behemoth's Sledge seems good, albeit mana-intensive..
I've also noticed you only have 20 lands, do you ever have mana problems? The equipment package can be heavy on mana sometimes..
Do you think the Krosan Grips in my SB are overkill when I already have access to 3 Pridemages? It seems like those are two precious slots that could be for something else..
Edit: Great job at your tourney results Lio! Also....made a couple MD changes to my decklist a couple posts up. Decided to take out the 2x Kitchen Finks for the disruptive 2x Gaddock Teeg. Finks is amazing, but it's a stalling card, I want to eliminate stalling cards. Also took out the 1x Basilisk Collar and added 1 more Pridemage for 3x MD, these are too good, and Collar just doesn't do enough on it's own.
This deck has me fascinated and I plan to make this as my first competitive Legacy Deck. I was wonder how the match up with Eva Green, Fish, and Dreadstill? Also what does the abbreviation "NO" stand for? BTW I love this forum Finn have created a great place to discuss this deck.
- Gaddock: 3 of them MD is very cool. He'll usually invalidate at least 1 card of the opponent in almost any matchup, and usually a key card (Force, Jace, Tendrils, Explosives, NO, Moat...). Then, if he is not really relevant, simply side him out for the goodstuff you'll be adding. And he's a 2/2 for 2 all the way, that can carry equipment like a champ. Also, the redundancy you get against combo decks (namely ANT) when paired with Canonist is almost unsurmontable. Play 3 of them
Good point...I think I will try that.
- Wish is cool if you're running the Karakas+Mangara package. Karakas is specially good as a bonus if there's Reanimator in your meta. If you stick to Wish, use a single Bojuka on the side. Sadly, I don't get to see the look of their faces, as I play mostly over MWS, but it is surely a priceless view. However, I don't run the Karakas+Mangara package for a simple reason. If you go that route, you're going for the mid-late game, as it usually takes some time to get it online. This doesn't seem a good call right now, with the meta filled with aggro and combo decks.
If there's one thing I've learned from playing with the Karakas+Mangara package for as long as I've had the deck, is that it's good becomes it comes out of nowhere. Even Mangara by himself, a bad Vindicate, has won me countless games. Adding Karakas to the mix just gives random protection (can bounce Teeg ) as well as the obvious Reanimator uses, but there are random legendary creatures that appear that makes it a nice surprise. I never aim or hope to get either of the pieces, but if I do, it makes me happy. I may just be a sucker for the looks on peoples faces, but I can't bring myself to cut it.
- To be Honest, I never tried the Flickerwisps. Why are they MVP for you? I see the obvious uses, specially if you play with finks...but I'm not sold on neither of them. Flicking a Dreadnought MUST definately be cool, though. But you can always Pridemage it.
Flickerwisps also reset opposing Vials, Chalices, Stax, Planeswalkers (actually just used one to reset an Elspeth before her ultimate the other day ), basically anything with counters comes back into play with 0, Isochron Scepters, Chrome Mox, both come back into play empty and sad, it can target Mystic for a secondary tutor (that's always fun), with an active Vial at 3 he basically becomes a very powerful combat tool, can 2-for-1 two attacking creatures, removing one and blocking the other, you can vial him in to save any of your guys from removal (or Mangara from himself), at worst he can temporarily save you for a while from Survival's or nasty creatures if timed right (during the opponents end step - it won't come back until it triggers at the beginning of your next end step ), I can't stress enough how useful he is. Of course you don't set vial to 3, so his uses probably would be considerably lessened, but trust me, he's worth a vial to 3.
- Land count: I don't seem to be experiencing problems. However my mana curve is smaller than yours, as my only 3-drop are the 2 x Aven Mindcensor. This bird has been awesome whenever I drew it. 1 - As it has Flash, I can still keep my vial at 2. 2- It performs admirabily against NO, Tutors of all kinds, Entombs (if you're a bit lucky and/or playing first), Extirpates, and, of course, FETCHLANDS. Many a game has been conceded to an Aven in response of cracking a fetch (especially with the Wasteland package).
But how can you get past that hideous artwork? I prefer Rishadan Ports as a mana-denial source...I guess that's why I need the extra lands.
- I think that the Grips in the side are not needed, if you run 3-4 Pridemage MD. The only case where you would like a K-Grip over the Pridemage is Humility. If that's prevalent on your meta, then OK. But that's just another reason to run Gaddock MD
Good point, with those slots I think I'm going to try out a version of the Enlightened Tutor package...but I need Silence/Orims chant...there's a couple Solidarity decks and an ANT deck that get played sometimes. I think I'm in the wrong meta.
I'm playing Finn's build and I have a legacy tournament coming up I expect combo storm, elves, lots of burn, Eva green dreadstill, and fish I want to build a sideboard for these match ups any suggestions to strengthen these matchups
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3/20/11 SCG Open Dallas-28th
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I'm playing Finn's build and I have a legacy tournament coming up I expect combo storm, elves, lots of burn, Eva green dreadstill, and fish I want to build a sideboard for these match ups any suggestions to strengthen these matchups
As for elves, if it's combo elves, once again the same combo stopping options stated above. If it's aggro elves, you may want to try some board sweepers such as Cataclysm or even Wrath of Gods, I lost horribly to aggro-elf death just recently. Ghostly Prison isn't as good at stopping elves late-game as they usually can produce mass amounts of mana, but it can slow them early, and it is another option that can hose other aggro decks as well (merfolk, zoo).
Eva Green, not so sure about, haven't played against it myself in particular, there might be some information posted on the Primer on the first page of this thread for it. I don't think Dreadstill is too bad for us, although I personally don't have alot of experience. Fish not so sure about either, I don't think it's a bad match-up, but again I'd check the primer.
I'm playing Finn's build and I have a legacy tournament coming up I expect combo storm, elves, lots of burn, Eva green dreadstill, and fish I want to build a sideboard for these match ups any suggestions to strengthen these matchups
Storm: just pray
Elves, Burn: should be fixed by Jitte and/or Sword of Fire and Ice. I haven't run D&T with Stoneforge Mystic yet, but I guess those matchups just improved by a margin because of her.
Eva Green: Don't keep an opening hand with less than 2, better yet 3, lands. Make Æther Vial a priority. Jotun Grunt is a real champ here.
Dreadstill: Almost a bye from my experience, if you run 4 Flickerwisps. Don't be shy to throw Swords to Plowshares onto a Phyrexian Dreadnought.
i remember some black guy once called me called me cracker i didnt know what he was meaning. but them i found out that it is a Racially motivated term for white people, based on the fact that we're the same color as Saltines.
Just letting y'all know, Karakas is hitting 30 at SCG. You guys use it the most, so I figured I'd ask you: why? It's a fairly niche card; is it being used to stop Iona?
Just letting y'all know, Karakas is hitting 30 at SCG. You guys use it the most, so I figured I'd ask you: why? It's a fairly niche card; is it being used to stop Iona?
Well they bounce Marit Lage tokens as well. Karakas is one of the best answers against legendary creature threats.
not sure if this is the correct place to post this but,
im currently working on a WU D&T for a upcoming tournament that uses leyline of singularity used with karakas to bounce threats,save my stuff, and abuse with Æther Vial. im having a problem finding good u or wu cards to add to it other then meddling mage and also questioning if i should just splice blue for leyline
i would like to get some thoughts going on this concept to help me out
I once played someone who was piloting a Blue Leyline D+T... he was quite disappointed when I told him about Karakas' creatures-only errata and so he couldn't bounce my now-Legendary Artifacts... bummer.
I haven't played this deck since when Goyf went for but 40$, and the Gsplash was the way.to.go. Qasali hurts them lots, and having Goyfs and KGrips brings so much to the deck.
Now with the apparition of Stoneforge Mystic, I am planning a comeback. So far I'm looking at a mono-W list, and getting on board the out-with-the-Dog-and-in-with-the-Mom train. Love love love the extra Grunt interaction, and depending on the meta I may run 2 Canonists or 2 Aven Mindcensors MB. That Mindcensor vialed in in response to a Natural Order or a fetch (mana-denial!) is priceless.
(I'll be playing it the moment I get over my GMGCAG phase, surely another month or two.)
By the way, what kind of meta makes someone choose 3 Burrenton Forge-Tenders MB? It's been a VIP SB card for me, but MB flabbergasts me.
@ finn (or anyone with inside info i'm unaware of)
whats the logic behind all the e.tutors in the board?
i just started experimenting with e.tutor in tempo fae, so i'm very eager to hear any and all comments on why it's in the board, when you side it in, how many targets is optimal, ect..
edit..
how much did karakas cost a few months ago? i understand that demand has gone up due to iona and such. i just want to know exactly how much they've risen, as i never really paid attention to how much they were worth until now (i have 3 and need one more for this deck).
1.) Anyone who thinks cancel is viable should be shot. in the face. with a hammer.
2.) You misunderstand, what I was suggesting was the total exclusion of Spellstutter Sprite, because it just isnt that good anymore.
3.) Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
Angel's Grace is completely useless. You simply die as soon as the turn is over.
Children of Korlis is not a good sb card. I am only fooling with it in the main because I really need a good creature for exactly W in the main. ~still do~
Runed Halo, I rather like these days because it is also good against Reanimator and Progenitals.
Orim's Chant is good, as always. I can't decide if I like it better than Mindbreak Trap. A fair bit of testing has not helped me decide either.
Hope this helps.
EDIT: the deal with Meekstone is peculiar. I have discovered that the Reanimator decks won't go for Iona once they see Karakas. Since Iona is the biggest reason to use Meekstone, I currently do not have one in the board.
Your reasoning for not using Meekstone is the reason I do. I found the reanimator play against me to be Inkwell Leviathan and unless I have an equipped creature and Mother of Runes out then it is very tough to handle w/o Meekstone. Plus it has value against aggro-loam and survival.
In terms of sb space, I am currently using Runed Halo in that spot. When facing Progenitus, they are nearly the same (Rune is a bit better here, but similar). Reanimator - again very similar. ANT - one is completely useless, and one is a significant defense. And that makes all the difference to me. Since I would certainly only be using one of each, the random hose jobs it does are probably comparable to Meekstone.
Kick ass at the Florida Open Series this weekend !
May your ANT matchups be nonexistent and your draws smooth !
Let us know how it goes.
It has flying, it has flash, it is pertinent against the rising best deck in the format and it hurts most of the other decks (graveyard-wise), it kills Goblin Lackey.
It might precipitate a change to the whole D&T deck though; maybe a move to Isochron Scepter. It encourages keeping one white open on turn 1. Maybe promoting Mana Tithe. Maybe promoting Flooded Strand, etc. "just in case." Possibly opening the door to White/Black, especially with the Scepter plan, for Diabolic Edict or something.
Just an idea so far.
J
Anyways, here's my freshly assembled G/W list I've been testing and will be bringing to a local legacy tourney on Sunday.
3x Wasteland
3x Rishadan Port
1x Horizon Canopy
2x Karakas
4x Windswept Heath
4x Savannah
1x Forest
4x Plains
Creatures
4x Mother of Runes
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Qasali Pridemage
3x Serra Avenger
3x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Gaddock Teeg
4x Flickerwisp
2x Mangara of Corondor
4x Aether Vial
2x Living Wish
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
4x Sword to Plowshares
1x Mangara of Corondor
1x Karakas
1x Qasali Pridemage
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Silence
2x Orim's Chant
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Krosan Grip
So, I took this build to a tournament last week as well, and did okay (keep in mind, however, I hadn't played in over 3 months, and was pretty rusty). First match-up was against Canadian Thresh, went 2-0. My Goyfs matched his, I drew enough threats to empty his hands of counters (filling up my GY as well), and 5/6 Goyfs won me the games.
Second match-up was against aggro elves. I had to mull to 5 first game, and again second game (bad luck). He raced me, and was simply too big, too many, too fast. Also, forestwalk really sucks. I miss my mass removal in my board...but wasn't expecting elves. 0-2
Third match-up was against mono-white soldiers, a little janky, but surprisingly efficient. This was annoying, won 1, lost 1, and only had 7 minutes left for the third round, so we drew it. Second game there were 4 Moms on the table (2 mine, 2 his) so that stalled the game for far too long, and I couldn't draw into threats while he beat me down with a bunch of obnoxious 2/2s.
Fourth match-up was against Dredge. I had no graveyard hate in my board (having never needed it in my local meta before) and I regretted it. I almost pulled off some Jitte tech with 2 counters equipped on a Mystic to remove his bridges, but it was too little too late, I really, really hate combo losses on turn 2. Hate hate hate. 0-2
A janky rogue reanimator deck using "no cards over $5 to make a point" ended up winning 1st to everyone's surprise, go figure, GY HATE.
So I changed my sideboard around, added the Crypts and Relics to my board for GY hate, while still keeping a few Living Wish targets (which I've grown fond of, acting as a 3rd or 4th Mangara, Karakas, or Pridemage is pretty useful), combo-hate, and the almighty K-Grips.
I really wish I had a couple Cataclysms, if I did I would probably test them in the board in Grips spot for match-ups such as the elves, or any other aggro deck.
I went from 2 Jittes down to 1 because I found myself rarely ever tutoring for them, most of the time grabbing the swords, so I decided to try out a Basilisk Collar, didn't get to play with it really at all, but I think it seems powerful...
Has anybody ever tried Sylvan Library in a G/W version? I think it's a powerful draw engine, but 4 life is a hefty price (although Jitte, Collar, SoLaS, and Finks all can gain life, so it might be worth testing..). And then room in the MD would need to be found somewhere..what do you think?
Check out my Trade Thread!
Hmm, you make alot of valid points...I had 2x Gaddock Teeg in the SB for a while, but I never really found a time that I wanted to side them in...do they really work well enough for MD? They just seem to me like it'd be a bear that might shut down something in the opponents deck, and a card that might do something is hard for me when it's such a frail creature.. Also it should be noted that I haven't played in months, so I have no idea where my meta currently sits, so I can't really make any educated decisions yet...but I may try a couple MD in Kitchen Finks' slot..
Living Wish is a little slow, and I may take it out in the long run, but I think it warrants more testing. Being able to grab a Karakas or Mangara is good for me (you don't run these, so I understand why it wouldn't be optimal for you) but a single Bojuka Bog in the SB is a good idea...
Also, I was wondering how you had room for all these amazing creatures, and then I realized that you don't run 4x Flickerwisp. These guys are MVPs to me, and I can't imagine not running them, they reset everything. How has it been running without them?
An enlightened tutor SB toolbox is a great idea though, and I'll toy with the idea, I was just always shunned with any mention of Enlightened Tutor due to its card disadvantage...but I appreciate it's flexibility. Behemoth's Sledge seems good, albeit mana-intensive..
I've also noticed you only have 20 lands, do you ever have mana problems? The equipment package can be heavy on mana sometimes..
Do you think the Krosan Grips in my SB are overkill when I already have access to 3 Pridemages? It seems like those are two precious slots that could be for something else..
Edit: Great job at your tourney results Lio! Also....made a couple MD changes to my decklist a couple posts up. Decided to take out the 2x Kitchen Finks for the disruptive 2x Gaddock Teeg. Finks is amazing, but it's a stalling card, I want to eliminate stalling cards. Also took out the 1x Basilisk Collar and added 1 more Pridemage for 3x MD, these are too good, and Collar just doesn't do enough on it's own.
Check out my Trade Thread!
3/20/11 SCG Open Dallas-28th
10/30/11 SCG Open Kansas City-18th
3/10/12 SCG Open Dallas-?
Good point...I think I will try that.
If there's one thing I've learned from playing with the Karakas+Mangara package for as long as I've had the deck, is that it's good becomes it comes out of nowhere. Even Mangara by himself, a bad Vindicate, has won me countless games. Adding Karakas to the mix just gives random protection (can bounce Teeg ) as well as the obvious Reanimator uses, but there are random legendary creatures that appear that makes it a nice surprise. I never aim or hope to get either of the pieces, but if I do, it makes me happy. I may just be a sucker for the looks on peoples faces, but I can't bring myself to cut it.
Flickerwisps also reset opposing Vials, Chalices, Stax, Planeswalkers (actually just used one to reset an Elspeth before her ultimate the other day ), basically anything with counters comes back into play with 0, Isochron Scepters, Chrome Mox, both come back into play empty and sad, it can target Mystic for a secondary tutor (that's always fun), with an active Vial at 3 he basically becomes a very powerful combat tool, can 2-for-1 two attacking creatures, removing one and blocking the other, you can vial him in to save any of your guys from removal (or Mangara from himself), at worst he can temporarily save you for a while from Survival's or nasty creatures if timed right (during the opponents end step - it won't come back until it triggers at the beginning of your next end step ), I can't stress enough how useful he is. Of course you don't set vial to 3, so his uses probably would be considerably lessened, but trust me, he's worth a vial to 3.
But how can you get past that hideous artwork? I prefer Rishadan Ports as a mana-denial source...I guess that's why I need the extra lands.
Good point, with those slots I think I'm going to try out a version of the Enlightened Tutor package...but I need Silence/Orims chant...there's a couple Solidarity decks and an ANT deck that get played sometimes. I think I'm in the wrong meta.
Check out my Trade Thread!
3/20/11 SCG Open Dallas-28th
10/30/11 SCG Open Kansas City-18th
3/10/12 SCG Open Dallas-?
Well if you're expecting storm combo, Ethersworn Canonist and Orim's Chant/Silence, or some use Mindbreak Trap, are all good SB options to hose their plan.
As for elves, if it's combo elves, once again the same combo stopping options stated above. If it's aggro elves, you may want to try some board sweepers such as Cataclysm or even Wrath of Gods, I lost horribly to aggro-elf death just recently. Ghostly Prison isn't as good at stopping elves late-game as they usually can produce mass amounts of mana, but it can slow them early, and it is another option that can hose other aggro decks as well (merfolk, zoo).
Burn we have Burrenton Forge-Tender, 'nuff said. I ran 3 in my board and it was all I needed. Besides, Umezawa's Jitte gains life, Sword of Light and Shadow gains life, and you can even Swords to Plowshares your own Jotun Grunts to slow them down.
Eva Green, not so sure about, haven't played against it myself in particular, there might be some information posted on the Primer on the first page of this thread for it. I don't think Dreadstill is too bad for us, although I personally don't have alot of experience. Fish not so sure about either, I don't think it's a bad match-up, but again I'd check the primer.
Check out my Trade Thread!
Storm: just pray
Elves, Burn: should be fixed by Jitte and/or Sword of Fire and Ice. I haven't run D&T with Stoneforge Mystic yet, but I guess those matchups just improved by a margin because of her.
Eva Green: Don't keep an opening hand with less than 2, better yet 3, lands. Make Æther Vial a priority. Jotun Grunt is a real champ here.
Dreadstill: Almost a bye from my experience, if you run 4 Flickerwisps. Don't be shy to throw Swords to Plowshares onto a Phyrexian Dreadnought.
Nice job to Mr. Daniel Payne.
3/20/11 SCG Open Dallas-28th
10/30/11 SCG Open Kansas City-18th
3/10/12 SCG Open Dallas-?
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
4 Flickerwisp
4 Mother of Runes
4 Serra Avenger
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Mangara of Corondor
4 Aether Vial
1 Umezawa's jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Oblivion Ring
4 Sword to Plowshares
3 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
11 Plains
1 Jotun Grunt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Runed Halo
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
4 Enlightened Tutor
2 Orim's Chant
3 Wing Shards
TigerDriver, thanks for the support man. What a fun weekend. SCG runs a top notch event.
I am pretty curious how the forge-tenders worked out for you, were they useful or did you miss the harriers?
Also curious what you board out for Wing Shards. Which I am not running.
/return to lurking/
Well they bounce Marit Lage tokens as well. Karakas is one of the best answers against legendary creature threats.
im currently working on a WU D&T for a upcoming tournament that uses leyline of singularity used with karakas to bounce threats,save my stuff, and abuse with Æther Vial. im having a problem finding good u or wu cards to add to it other then meddling mage and also questioning if i should just splice blue for leyline
i would like to get some thoughts going on this concept to help me out
I haven't played this deck since when Goyf went for but 40$, and the Gsplash was the way.to.go. Qasali hurts them lots, and having Goyfs and KGrips brings so much to the deck.
Now with the apparition of Stoneforge Mystic, I am planning a comeback. So far I'm looking at a mono-W list, and getting on board the out-with-the-Dog-and-in-with-the-Mom train. Love love love the extra Grunt interaction, and depending on the meta I may run 2 Canonists or 2 Aven Mindcensors MB. That Mindcensor vialed in in response to a Natural Order or a fetch (mana-denial!) is priceless.
(I'll be playing it the moment I get over my GMGCAG phase, surely another month or two.)
By the way, what kind of meta makes someone choose 3 Burrenton Forge-Tenders MB? It's been a VIP SB card for me, but MB flabbergasts me.
whats the logic behind all the e.tutors in the board?
i just started experimenting with e.tutor in tempo fae, so i'm very eager to hear any and all comments on why it's in the board, when you side it in, how many targets is optimal, ect..
edit..
how much did karakas cost a few months ago? i understand that demand has gone up due to iona and such. i just want to know exactly how much they've risen, as i never really paid attention to how much they were worth until now (i have 3 and need one more for this deck).
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?17050-[REPORT]-5K-Orlando
@Finn, so what is the verdict on Wing Shards?