wizards mentioned before they were considering unbanning it like back in 2006. of course wizards does say a lot of things.
and the new banned/restricted list is coming out soon, so now is a good as a time as any to profess your love of the library and the desire to get it unbanned!
I imagine it was initially banned because it was restricted in Type 1, and before their lists were separated, anything restricted in type 1 was banned in Legacy.
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I'm probably completely alone in this opinion, but I don't think Library would have much of an impact if it was unbanned in Legacy. I remember how stupid it was back in the day, but think for 2 seconds about how much faster the format is now. If you tried to do some Tower/Library trix now people would just laugh and kill you. The prevalence of Pithing Needle and Wasteland alone (neither of which used to be around) are worrisome for a library deck.
The deck I would honestly be most worried about it in would be a Thresh-type list, and I see Library having some bad interactions with things like Daze, but Hymn and Thoughtseize both basically turn it off. Most decks with Library would also want to run Force, and those two don't exactly play well together either.
Actually, Loam decks seem like the best place to get to seven cards in hand and abuse it, but really, it's not like a loam deck needs the help drawing cards since they can already do just that for one mana already.
Keep in mind there is no restricted list in Legacy. If this card were to be unbanned, people could run 4 of if they wanted to. (Granted that person would have like a 2 grand deck) There's no reason this should be unbanned if cards like Land Tax and Dream Halls are the power curve for what warrants a card banning.
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Oh man. Library of Alexandria, seriously? Have you ever played with that card, digitally or otherwise?
yes i have a couple library of alexandrias. why is price tag an issue considering that imperial recruiter i heard are now are buy it nows for like $170-200?
I think the only reason that people want Library of Alexandria unbanned, is because of all the cards currently on the banned list it is the one card, that is least likely to be the most abused of all of them. That is the only possible reason I could see for it being unbanned, especially in a format like legacy where things are so easily disruptable, to the point where it isn't even worth running Library. I mean really, do you see people running its counterpart Magus of the Library?
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good point, but lands are the number 2 most destroyed thing in legacy....
Actually I'd say that Artifacts are number 2 with Lands following behind that in 3rd place.
Here's a question for all you old schoolers, how long did it take you to realize that Library of Alexandria's second ability was tapping for Mana?
If I still had my play set of Libraries, then I might say I'm up for it, but I'd only be saying that because I wouldn't have anything to buy. I don't feel we need to add cards to the format that cost that much. While I am not someone who supports cost as a reason to ban or keep something banned, introducing this card into the format would be bad, because its cost mixed with its power level is why it should remain on the banned list.
If it were to be unbanned, I'd throw it into Solidarity myself, probably as a 3 of. More cards are always good for that deck, and not like that deck plays anything other than land and instants.
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In Vintage (Type 1) > Budget Deck Discussion forum:
I would NOT support the unbanning of this card, even though I have some, do to the fact that THERE ARE NO RESTRICTIONS. If there were restrictions, then perhaps, but since that will never happen, because vintage (does not equal) legacy, and 1 (does not equal) 0.
It is a good card for a reason. To be honest, this thread should be talking about how price should affect banning. Look at Tabernacle. The card has soared to 100+ dollars. A set approaches 500. Really, how fair is that? Imperial Recruiters, Cruel Tutors, etc., etc.
My $0.02
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I wouldn't mind it being unbanned since it's overly ridiculous in landstill. Best of all you could fetch for one via tolaria west making Library even more absurd. However, obtaining enough money to buy a set of them would be a problem for me.
LoA is basicallly a self-Howling Mine that is FREE and CANNOT BE COUNTERED. Not only can it produce mana, but the fact it draws an extra card each turn is ridiculous. If you're drawing an extra card every turn, you're going to win due to the sheer card advantage. There is a reason card drawing is one of the most powerful abilities in the game.
LoA is basicallly a self-Howling Mine that is FREE and CANNOT BE COUNTERED. Not only can it produce mana, but the fact it draws an extra card each turn is ridiculous. If you're drawing an extra card every turn, you're going to win due to the sheer card advantage. There is a reason card drawing is one of the most powerful abilities in the game.
honestly it isnt a free one-sided howling mine. it is a conditional draw and the condition is to have exactly 7 cards in hand. this seems to only apply to control decks. aggro decks and combo decks tend to have far fewer cards in hand.
control isn't that strong in the meta right now. i could see library boosting landstill which would be more valuable tabernacle or LoA in landstill? the correct answer is probably both.
Yes, unban Library of Alexandria!
And while we're at it, why not unban Mishra's Workshop, and maybe the whole power 9? Then we could change Legacy's name to coin-toss, because the guy who wins the coin toss and goes first is going to win.
Seriously, let's not give control a free draw engine and let's not make the format all about who has the most money to buy power cards.
I find it funny that I finally agree with your opinion on something, and the post has just a tad bit of sarcasm in it.
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That being said, even as a 1-of in it's heyday, LoA was great (ask me how I know). As a 4-of, it would probably be insane.
Then again, MUC would be better. No, not that it would run it, but that resolving B2B would take down opposing deck's manabase AND draw engine in one hit.
That being said, even as a 1-of in it's heyday, LoA was great (ask me how I know). As a 4-of, it would probably be insane.
Then again, MUC would be better. No, not that it would run it, but that resolving B2B would take down opposing deck's manabase AND draw engine in one hit.
Friends and I use to play everyonce in awhile without the restricted rules. I had playsets of all Power and LoA (The 10th piece of power as we called it), and if you have more than one in play you can stack the ability and draw lots of cards.:)
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In Vintage (Type 1) > Budget Deck Discussion forum:
yes i have a couple library of alexandrias. why is price tag an issue considering that imperial recruiter i heard are now are buy it nows for like $170-200?
or imperial recruiter => library of alexandria in price value.
Because as we've seen, the DCI is not exactly ontop of their game when it comes to managing Eternal formats. Additionally, banning based on card price is, iirc, something of a messy topic.
Right. Because a few people supporting unbanning it is totally reason enough to seriously think about unbanning it.
Arguing numbers as a means of supporting your position is ludicrous, by the way. Especially when it's based on format health. Billions of flies eat dung, so it has to be worthy, amirite?
Why does everyone think cards can be banned due to price?
They DON'T DO THAT. Eternal Magic, Vintage and Legacy, contain all sets minus the un-sets and a few promos.
Therefore, YES, there may be some expensive cards in the mix that just happen to be hard to find and REALLY good.
Imperial Seal isn't banned because it is $180, it is because it is basically Vampiric Tutor, another banned card.
Power isn't banned because they all are over $300, it is because they are extremely powerful, and when in playsets it is just way over the top.
Grim Tutor is ~90-100 and it isn't banned, same for Recruiter's crazy price tag, Tabernacle, and Moat as well.
They are all popular (maybe with the exception of Grim) Legacy cards.
Moat, Tabernacle, and Recruiter almost see no other play except in Legacy.
Vintage is an entirely different animal than Legacy, the format is more combo-centric.
As far as the topic goes, I personally think it would be a bad idea.
Anyone who has played with Library knows just how incredibly strong it is, especially in multiples.
It would bend the format unnecessarily, and thus should probably stay on the banned list.
Same goes for Bazaar and Workshop.
Library is banned for a reason, don't desturb sleeping bears.
If you are going to unban library you should just unban mana drain and end it all. You dont want to make control even strong in legacy. I think their format is one of the most stable the way it is.
wizards mentioned before they were considering unbanning it like back in 2006. of course wizards does say a lot of things.
and the new banned/restricted list is coming out soon, so now is a good as a time as any to profess your love of the library and the desire to get it unbanned!
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
If you like epic control versus control matchups that go to time with no attempt at actually doing anything, go ahead.
If you would like to totally invalidate even more cards and strategies, be my guest.
If you want the ultimate money invested=win percentage scenario, carry on.
The price tag is also worrisome, as you'll have alot of complaints from many players.
I'd rather just not touch this issue and leave it be.
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The deck I would honestly be most worried about it in would be a Thresh-type list, and I see Library having some bad interactions with things like Daze, but Hymn and Thoughtseize both basically turn it off. Most decks with Library would also want to run Force, and those two don't exactly play well together either.
Actually, Loam decks seem like the best place to get to seven cards in hand and abuse it, but really, it's not like a loam deck needs the help drawing cards since they can already do just that for one mana already.
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yes i have a couple library of alexandrias. why is price tag an issue considering that imperial recruiter i heard are now are buy it nows for like $170-200?
http://shop.ebay.com/items/_W0QQ_nkwZimperialQ20recruiterQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZR40QQ_mdoZ
or imperial recruiter => library of alexandria in price value.
also check out this thread seems like there are other supporters of the unbanning of the library. http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=139137
I think the only reason that people want Library of Alexandria unbanned, is because of all the cards currently on the banned list it is the one card, that is least likely to be the most abused of all of them. That is the only possible reason I could see for it being unbanned, especially in a format like legacy where things are so easily disruptable, to the point where it isn't even worth running Library. I mean really, do you see people running its counterpart Magus of the Library?
good point, but lands are the number 2 most destroyed thing in legacy....
Actually I'd say that Artifacts are number 2 with Lands following behind that in 3rd place.
Here's a question for all you old schoolers, how long did it take you to realize that Library of Alexandria's second ability was tapping for Mana?
If I still had my play set of Libraries, then I might say I'm up for it, but I'd only be saying that because I wouldn't have anything to buy. I don't feel we need to add cards to the format that cost that much. While I am not someone who supports cost as a reason to ban or keep something banned, introducing this card into the format would be bad, because its cost mixed with its power level is why it should remain on the banned list.
If it were to be unbanned, I'd throw it into Solidarity myself, probably as a 3 of. More cards are always good for that deck, and not like that deck plays anything other than land and instants.
Nothing says budget help like receiving $5000 in recommendations.
I guess leaving out Time Walk, Timetwister, and Ancestral Recall is budget.
It is a good card for a reason. To be honest, this thread should be talking about how price should affect banning. Look at Tabernacle. The card has soared to 100+ dollars. A set approaches 500. Really, how fair is that? Imperial Recruiters, Cruel Tutors, etc., etc.
My $0.02
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honestly it isnt a free one-sided howling mine. it is a conditional draw and the condition is to have exactly 7 cards in hand. this seems to only apply to control decks. aggro decks and combo decks tend to have far fewer cards in hand.
control isn't that strong in the meta right now. i could see library boosting landstill which would be more valuable tabernacle or LoA in landstill? the correct answer is probably both.
I find it funny that I finally agree with your opinion on something, and the post has just a tad bit of sarcasm in it.
Nothing says budget help like receiving $5000 in recommendations.
I guess leaving out Time Walk, Timetwister, and Ancestral Recall is budget.
Pithing Needle, Blood Moon
That being said, even as a 1-of in it's heyday, LoA was great (ask me how I know). As a 4-of, it would probably be insane.
Then again, MUC would be better. No, not that it would run it, but that resolving B2B would take down opposing deck's manabase AND draw engine in one hit.
It's totally broken in a lot of the control decks in the format. (reason alone)
It's price tag is way to high for a cheaper format than vintage.
What to you gain from unbanning it?
Friends and I use to play everyonce in awhile without the restricted rules. I had playsets of all Power and LoA (The 10th piece of power as we called it), and if you have more than one in play you can stack the ability and draw lots of cards.:)
Nothing says budget help like receiving $5000 in recommendations.
I guess leaving out Time Walk, Timetwister, and Ancestral Recall is budget.
Because as we've seen, the DCI is not exactly ontop of their game when it comes to managing Eternal formats. Additionally, banning based on card price is, iirc, something of a messy topic.
Right. Because a few people supporting unbanning it is totally reason enough to seriously think about unbanning it.
Arguing numbers as a means of supporting your position is ludicrous, by the way. Especially when it's based on format health. Billions of flies eat dung, so it has to be worthy, amirite?
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They DON'T DO THAT. Eternal Magic, Vintage and Legacy, contain all sets minus the un-sets and a few promos.
Therefore, YES, there may be some expensive cards in the mix that just happen to be hard to find and REALLY good.
Imperial Seal isn't banned because it is $180, it is because it is basically Vampiric Tutor, another banned card.
Power isn't banned because they all are over $300, it is because they are extremely powerful, and when in playsets it is just way over the top.
Grim Tutor is ~90-100 and it isn't banned, same for Recruiter's crazy price tag, Tabernacle, and Moat as well.
They are all popular (maybe with the exception of Grim) Legacy cards.
Moat, Tabernacle, and Recruiter almost see no other play except in Legacy.
Vintage is an entirely different animal than Legacy, the format is more combo-centric.
As far as the topic goes, I personally think it would be a bad idea.
Anyone who has played with Library knows just how incredibly strong it is, especially in multiples.
It would bend the format unnecessarily, and thus should probably stay on the banned list.
Same goes for Bazaar and Workshop.
If you are going to unban library you should just unban mana drain and end it all. You dont want to make control even strong in legacy. I think their format is one of the most stable the way it is.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=532795