You're not even listening. You're just repeating the same crap over and over while not even taking into account that what you're saying is WRONG. You keep saying plenty of decks can make that life a problem, but you don't seem to actually give an example aside from the one I came up with.
Arguing that sphinx can win the turn he drops completely ignores the fact that he doesn't mean you win EVERY time he drops. He's not going to always be able to net you the cards you need. GB on the other hand in every situation where you dredge the same amount as sphinx, he goes beyond for another 4 dredges. Running sphinx is a handicap compared to GB, and if a win is a win, then why wouldn't you want to give yourself the best chance to win?
You're not even listening. You're just repeating the same crap over and over while not even taking into account that what you're saying is WRONG. You keep saying plenty of decks can make that life a problem, but you don't seem to actually give an example aside from the one I came up with.
T4 on the draw? 13 life loss (11 or fewer if you use your Street Wraiths)? You're kidding, right?
Easy ones:
Zoo
RUG Tempo
Delver
Burn
Maverick (any Tarmogoyf or a nut Knight of the Reliquary draw)
Dredge
Goblins
Merfolk
NO Elves
Belcher (tokens)
Bant
Jund
Most combo decks (including the awful Zombie bombardment thing that seems popular suddenly)
Less obvious:
Death and Taxes
Metalworker
TEAM / BUG (Tarmogoyf again)
Reanimator
Sneak/Show
Nic Fit (Tarmogoyf)
Pox? I think?
I think you're looking at more than half of the commonly played decks in Legacy.
Arguing that sphinx can win the turn he drops completely ignores the fact that he doesn't mean you win EVERY time he drops. He's not going to always be able to net you the cards you need. GB on the other hand in every situation where you dredge the same amount as sphinx, he goes beyond for another 4 dredges. Running sphinx is a handicap compared to GB, and if a win is a win, then why wouldn't you want to give yourself the best chance to win?
This deck actually has a denser threat list than LED or non-LED dredge. 1 or even 2 DRS cannot keep up with the dredging speed of the deck. RIP does pose a problem but with Reverent Silence in my sideboard, it can be destroyed. Not perfect but each dredge variation has their own strengths and weaknesses. I play both Manaless and LED dredge. To me both are good but the LED is more explosive, Manaless is harder to hate out.
Just my 2 cents
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Stasis players like me are like those old gray haired convicts that have been locked up for 40 years straight. You can take us in a fight but you know you'll lose a testicle in the process of winning.
Decks I play
Legacy
Dredge 0
DredgeGBRU
AffinityXRUB
GoblinsRWB
10 land StompyG
BurnR
DreadstillURW
BelcherGR
Death and Taxes W
Enchantress GWR
BUILDING
Legacy Lands GBRUW
I'll never tell you the flavor text of Teferi's Imp!!
1 or even 2 DRS cannot keep up with the dredging speed of the deck.
If we are taking the DDD route, we can only discard once per turn. DRS can remove one cards per turn (and is never sick because e have to draw before we discard).
Our only hope is either to discard Phantasmagorian initially, or to be holding a Street Wraith to respond to DRS's activation.
If we are taking the DDD route, we can only discard once per turn. DRS can remove one cards per turn (and is never sick because e have to draw before we discard).
Our only hope is either to discard Phantasmagorian initially, or to be holding a Street Wraith to respond to DRS's activation.
Manaless dodges counter-spells, but LEDredge has more game vs graveyard hosers. Sadly I built manaless just before RIP and DRS were spoiled!
If you guys are playing somewhere who hate is prevelant, remember that Gigapede once had a place in manaless dredge decks and also dodges DRS for the turn necessary to get going.
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Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
AJ, I think that's a great analysis. I never thought that someone would be a better target than Gristle, but I think you've made a great argument for Sphinx. Ignore Ramanas, he's either not thinking critically or not paying any attention.
Ramanas: One more try. AJ's point is that given that under most circumstances you win when either hit the table, we want to examine the weaknesses of the card. Obviously Gristle has a huge weakness of not working if you are at 7 life (or 10 vs an untapped Red source). Plenty of decks can get you that low fast enough to matter.
Another point is that a Pithing Needle or Cursed totem makes Gristle look pretty silly while it doesn't stop Sphinx.
If we take AJ's word that his testing shows Spinx+3 dredgers wins, then Sphinx is definitely the better choice.
I must admit it is slightly surprising that 3 is enough to win, but I suppose it's dredges 5-7 usually, right? That's 35-42 cards plus the original 7, so your deck is under 20 at that point even in the worst case scenario. Some statistical data on that would be great, or raw data which I could easily statisticalize.
If you guys are playing somewhere who hate is prevelant, remember that Gigapede once had a place in manaless dredge decks and also dodges DRS for the turn necessary to get going.
Gigapede activates only on your upkeep. If you're on the draw and discard this, a turn one Deathrire Shaman exiles it before your next upkeep. It's really too bad - we could use the consistency.
Gigapede activates only on your upkeep. If you're on the draw and discard this, a turn one Deathrire Shaman exiles it before your next upkeep. It's really too bad - we could use the consistency.
Ah, you're right indeed. Hmmm, thanks for pointing that out.
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Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
How do you play through a t1 DRS if you don't have Phantasmagorian or Contagion in hand? Also, what's the best sideboard plan for Undercity Informer?
DRS is a little sloppy against Street Wraith. (Probably) Discard your worst dredgers if you have 3+, since you can tie up their mana that way. (Definitely) Discard your worst dredgers if you have 5+. Wait for Phantasmagorian or Street Wraith. Use Gut Shot or Contagion if you have them. Scoop as necessary. Ultimately, the same logic applies as would for Belcher versus Force of Will - they can only have it ~40% of the time (you have your 'combo' 95%-98% of the time in manaless dredge) and you can lose 1 game per set, so it's not worth a huge sideboard investment unless a ton of people are running it. In the case of Deathrite, I'm pretty sure Gut Shot would the best response - taking one fewer card is a pretty good deal (but unfortunately he has 2 toughness). Chancellor of the Annex might also be good enough to consider, depending on your particular deck's consistency/speed.
What do people think about Balustrade Spy instead of Griselbrand or Sphinx of Lost Truths? Guaranteed to mill your whole deck without missing, doesn't cost any life loss, and black for Ichorid. It does force you to play Memnite over Dryad Arbor, but that's not necessarily a bad thing (as you can hypothetically play two Memnite's in one turn if you need to.)
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"You threw your babies away. And you threw your swords away. And you threw away your golf clubs and your tasty treats. And you know what? i found 'em!"
-Charlie Kelly
I think this is a really creative use of the card. I think it's probably a lot more resilient than the Belcher-style builds that most people have been trying, although graveyard hate is about equally bad.
Pros: It mills your whole deck every time.
Cons: No Dakmor Salvage allowed and it mills your whole deck, so you need a Progenitus effect or a same-turn win.
Overall, I'd say it's probably the go-to card for any Dredge deck that happens to find itself without lands (as I'm sure many Manaless builds will). This is very clever.
I brought my Balustrade Spy deck tonight to a 15 player legacy tournament at my shop tonight and won 4-0! Albeit with some lucky breaks, but still...
Here's what I played
I beat Goblins, Burn, Esper Stoneblade, and Reanimator (a nice mix I think!) And in the Burn matchup, I won a game by comboing out with Balustrade Spy at 5 life, where Griselbrand would have killed me.
Oh, and guys, I wouldn't be playing Gut Shot to deal with Deathrite Shaman...he's got 2 toughness...
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"You threw your babies away. And you threw your swords away. And you threw away your golf clubs and your tasty treats. And you know what? i found 'em!"
-Charlie Kelly
I really like Balustrade Spy, it WILL win the game on the spot. The problem is, what if they have a Crypt or Relic on the field? You can't use Reverent Silence or Nature's Claim since you don't have the Arbors. You could just start beating down, only dredging your draw each turn I guess.
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EDH WBRKaalia of the VastRBW BChainer, Dementia MasterB Legacy 0Manaless Dredge0 RGoblinsR Standard RBWThe AristocratsWBR
Re: Reverent Silence, I've always thought it's not worth the space - you've lost a game before you bring it in, and will almost certainly lose even after you have it
Edit: Defending my generalization a little: You're two cards down by the time you remove the opposing enchantment (more if you had to mulligan), and you're effectively on the draw since you need to DDD. Starting 3 turns back (to draw up to 7 and discard) is not a winning strategy even if the opponent mulligans aggressively with virtually any deck. All you're doing is taking matches that are ~40% (very very rough estimation based on reaching G3 where they have a powerful hate effect) and turning them into ~42% (i.e. slightly better, since they have to have their hate and you have to have the anti-hate combo and you still have to win from behind, which taken together will probably happen in like 2% of matches that reach this point)
A better use of sideboard space would be anything that garners more than ~2% win rate against at least as many decks as would have the relevant hate. For example, including Firemane Angel and Golgari Brownscale in the sideboard would probably give you 5% against burn and a lot of aggressive decks - and that's almost certainly still not optimal.
My 2c: There is no defense against Leyline of the Void that's worth running.
Against other hate, the most important card is usually Street Wraith, since responding to targeted removal with a dredge is very good.
Against sweepers like Tormod's Crypt your mostly just want to play in such a way that they pop it against a smallish yard, then quickly generate new threats and win.
Turn 1 Thoughtseize is worth at least a turn against basically every hand from basically every deck. It harms us less than most, especially since the value plummets after turn 1.
Finally, your deck looks like it could support River Kelpie over Sphinx. The main benefit is actually the persist, which reduces the mental acrobatics needed to find enough creatures for FKZ to be lethal. Drawing Griselbrand-sized numbers of cards is nice too.
Balustrade Spy is the best option, I've switched to it from Sphinx of Lost Truths/Griselbrand. There's really no room for Chancellor of the Forge, the spots he'd occupy are taken by Chancellor of the Annex.
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EDH WBRKaalia of the VastRBW BChainer, Dementia MasterB Legacy 0Manaless Dredge0 RGoblinsR Standard RBWThe AristocratsWBR
Balustrade Spy is the best option, I've switched to it from Sphinx of Lost Truths/Griselbrand. There's really no room for Chancellor of the Forge, the spots he'd occupy are taken by Chancellor of the Annex.
My thought was playing Chancellor of the Forge and siding out Chancellor of the Annex. Annex gives us a extra turn to combo out before they go off. Forge can helps us go off turn two with more consistency. For faster decks like Storm and Belcher you can side in Annex.
My thought was playing Chancellor of the Forge and siding out Chancellor of the Annex. Annex gives us a extra turn to combo out before they go off. Forge can helps us go off turn two with more consistency. For faster decks like Storm and Belcher you can side in Annex.
Thoughts?
One extra creature won't help us that much I think.
I like CotA mostly for it's utility versus Deathrite Shaman - that card is a real thorn. with CotA[/CARD, Phantasmagorian, and Stree Wraith we have twelve cards that can help us outrace it. Not to shabby. Once we get our yard going DRS is still a liability, but beatable.
Cards which outright kill DRS slow us down too much, I think. We alwasy chose to draw, so if they play DRS turn one we won't get a chance to kill it after discarding but before it becomes "unsick". If we kill it first we are also out cards and may have a hard time discarding - especially if the opponent is also packing discard (which incidentally is also stopped by Chancellor Of The Annex).
I feel as though I'm setting myself up for failure with this SB though, siding out Spy+ Shuffler, Dread Return, G.Probe and whatever else is necessary.
I have no idea what to do for a SB. I want to keep one Angel in there because there are several show and tell decks in my meta (hence the Leviathan as well.) What I really would like to do is add a Chancellor of the Forge to the MD. Not sure if I want to go to 3 Annex, 1 Forge, but I feel as though on the combo turn, the more options you have, the better, in regards to flipping the deck... then what? First choice is obv. Flayer into Grave-Troll. With all the tokens and other critters that will be in play, returning a C.Forge should net 12+ tokens for a swing. I like C.Forge over FKZ, if in opening hand, get that first creature to sac.
Could C.Forge take the place of one G.Probe?
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You're not even listening. You're just repeating the same crap over and over while not even taking into account that what you're saying is WRONG. You keep saying plenty of decks can make that life a problem, but you don't seem to actually give an example aside from the one I came up with.
Arguing that sphinx can win the turn he drops completely ignores the fact that he doesn't mean you win EVERY time he drops. He's not going to always be able to net you the cards you need. GB on the other hand in every situation where you dredge the same amount as sphinx, he goes beyond for another 4 dredges. Running sphinx is a handicap compared to GB, and if a win is a win, then why wouldn't you want to give yourself the best chance to win?
I'm done with you.
T4 on the draw? 13 life loss (11 or fewer if you use your Street Wraiths)? You're kidding, right?
Easy ones:
Zoo
RUG Tempo
Delver
Burn
Maverick (any Tarmogoyf or a nut Knight of the Reliquary draw)
Dredge
Goblins
Merfolk
NO Elves
Belcher (tokens)
Bant
Jund
Most combo decks (including the awful Zombie bombardment thing that seems popular suddenly)
Less obvious:
Death and Taxes
Metalworker
TEAM / BUG (Tarmogoyf again)
Reanimator
Sneak/Show
Nic Fit (Tarmogoyf)
Pox? I think?
I think you're looking at more than half of the commonly played decks in Legacy.
I have never lost after resolving Dread Return targeting Sphinx of Lost Truths (this is with Flame-Kin Zealot and a good sideboard).
If you're losing after getting a Sphinx in play you need to fix your play/deck/sideboard/sideboard strategy.
Check it out!
http://www.eternalcentral.com/resource-advantage-in-magic-part-1-one-shot-resources/
http://www.eternalcentral.com/resource-advantage-in-magic-part2-tempo/
I've also written a short primer on Manaless Dredge in Vintage:
http://www.eternalcentral.com/the-dredge-of-glory-an-introduction-to-manaless-dredge-in-vintage/
Just my 2 cents
Decks I play
Legacy
Dredge 0
DredgeGBRU
AffinityXRUB
GoblinsRWB
10 land StompyG
BurnR
DreadstillURW
BelcherGR
Death and Taxes W
Enchantress GWR
BUILDING
Legacy Lands GBRUW
I'll never tell you the flavor text of Teferi's Imp!!
If we are taking the DDD route, we can only discard once per turn. DRS can remove one cards per turn (and is never sick because e have to draw before we discard).
Our only hope is either to discard Phantasmagorian initially, or to be holding a Street Wraith to respond to DRS's activation.
Manaless dodges counter-spells, but LEDredge has more game vs graveyard hosers. Sadly I built manaless just before RIP and DRS were spoiled!
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
If you guys are playing somewhere who hate is prevelant, remember that Gigapede once had a place in manaless dredge decks and also dodges DRS for the turn necessary to get going.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Ramanas: One more try. AJ's point is that given that under most circumstances you win when either hit the table, we want to examine the weaknesses of the card. Obviously Gristle has a huge weakness of not working if you are at 7 life (or 10 vs an untapped Red source). Plenty of decks can get you that low fast enough to matter.
Another point is that a Pithing Needle or Cursed totem makes Gristle look pretty silly while it doesn't stop Sphinx.
If we take AJ's word that his testing shows Spinx+3 dredgers wins, then Sphinx is definitely the better choice.
I must admit it is slightly surprising that 3 is enough to win, but I suppose it's dredges 5-7 usually, right? That's 35-42 cards plus the original 7, so your deck is under 20 at that point even in the worst case scenario. Some statistical data on that would be great, or raw data which I could easily statisticalize.
Level 1 Judge
Currently Playing:
W Death and Taxes
BGR ScapeWish Nic Fit
BGR Punishing Nic Fit
Gigapede activates only on your upkeep. If you're on the draw and discard this, a turn one Deathrire Shaman exiles it before your next upkeep. It's really too bad - we could use the consistency.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
Ah, you're right indeed. Hmmm, thanks for pointing that out.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
EDH
WBRKaalia of the VastRBW
BChainer, Dementia MasterB
Legacy
0Manaless Dredge0
RGoblinsR
Standard
RBWThe AristocratsWBR
DRS is a little sloppy against Street Wraith. (Probably) Discard your worst dredgers if you have 3+, since you can tie up their mana that way. (Definitely) Discard your worst dredgers if you have 5+. Wait for Phantasmagorian or Street Wraith. Use Gut Shot or Contagion if you have them. Scoop as necessary. Ultimately, the same logic applies as would for Belcher versus Force of Will - they can only have it ~40% of the time (you have your 'combo' 95%-98% of the time in manaless dredge) and you can lose 1 game per set, so it's not worth a huge sideboard investment unless a ton of people are running it. In the case of Deathrite, I'm pretty sure Gut Shot would the best response - taking one fewer card is a pretty good deal (but unfortunately he has 2 toughness). Chancellor of the Annex might also be good enough to consider, depending on your particular deck's consistency/speed.
Check it out!
http://www.eternalcentral.com/resource-advantage-in-magic-part-1-one-shot-resources/
http://www.eternalcentral.com/resource-advantage-in-magic-part2-tempo/
I've also written a short primer on Manaless Dredge in Vintage:
http://www.eternalcentral.com/the-dredge-of-glory-an-introduction-to-manaless-dredge-in-vintage/
-Charlie Kelly
You might also consider Nether Shadow, Basking Rootwalla, or even Shield Sphere.
I think this is a really creative use of the card. I think it's probably a lot more resilient than the Belcher-style builds that most people have been trying, although graveyard hate is about equally bad.
Pros: It mills your whole deck every time.
Cons: No Dakmor Salvage allowed and it mills your whole deck, so you need a Progenitus effect or a same-turn win.
Overall, I'd say it's probably the go-to card for any Dredge deck that happens to find itself without lands (as I'm sure many Manaless builds will). This is very clever.
Check it out!
http://www.eternalcentral.com/resource-advantage-in-magic-part-1-one-shot-resources/
http://www.eternalcentral.com/resource-advantage-in-magic-part2-tempo/
I've also written a short primer on Manaless Dredge in Vintage:
http://www.eternalcentral.com/the-dredge-of-glory-an-introduction-to-manaless-dredge-in-vintage/
Here's what I played
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
4 Shambling Shell
4 Ichorid
4 Phantasmagorian
4 Narcomoeba
4 Nether Shadow
3 Chancellor of the Annex
4 Street Wraith
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
3 Balustrade Spy
1 Memnite
4 Dread Return
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Unmask
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Noxious Revival
1 Chancellor of the Annex
4 Sickening Shoal
1 Contagion
I beat Goblins, Burn, Esper Stoneblade, and Reanimator (a nice mix I think!) And in the Burn matchup, I won a game by comboing out with Balustrade Spy at 5 life, where Griselbrand would have killed me.
Oh, and guys, I wouldn't be playing Gut Shot to deal with Deathrite Shaman...he's got 2 toughness...
-Charlie Kelly
EDH
WBRKaalia of the VastRBW
BChainer, Dementia MasterB
Legacy
0Manaless Dredge0
RGoblinsR
Standard
RBWThe AristocratsWBR
Alternately you could do Nature's Claim Emerald Charm ESG and Lotus Petal (but you still shouldn't)
Edit: Defending my generalization a little: You're two cards down by the time you remove the opposing enchantment (more if you had to mulligan), and you're effectively on the draw since you need to DDD. Starting 3 turns back (to draw up to 7 and discard) is not a winning strategy even if the opponent mulligans aggressively with virtually any deck. All you're doing is taking matches that are ~40% (very very rough estimation based on reaching G3 where they have a powerful hate effect) and turning them into ~42% (i.e. slightly better, since they have to have their hate and you have to have the anti-hate combo and you still have to win from behind, which taken together will probably happen in like 2% of matches that reach this point)
A better use of sideboard space would be anything that garners more than ~2% win rate against at least as many decks as would have the relevant hate. For example, including Firemane Angel and Golgari Brownscale in the sideboard would probably give you 5% against burn and a lot of aggressive decks - and that's almost certainly still not optimal.
Check it out!
http://www.eternalcentral.com/resource-advantage-in-magic-part-1-one-shot-resources/
http://www.eternalcentral.com/resource-advantage-in-magic-part2-tempo/
I've also written a short primer on Manaless Dredge in Vintage:
http://www.eternalcentral.com/the-dredge-of-glory-an-introduction-to-manaless-dredge-in-vintage/
EDH
WBRKaalia of the VastRBW
BChainer, Dementia MasterB
Legacy
0Manaless Dredge0
RGoblinsR
Standard
RBWThe AristocratsWBR
Against other hate, the most important card is usually Street Wraith, since responding to targeted removal with a dredge is very good.
Against sweepers like Tormod's Crypt your mostly just want to play in such a way that they pop it against a smallish yard, then quickly generate new threats and win.
Against almost all hate, Chancellor of the Annex is worth considering.
Finally, any free sideboard card is worth considering. Leyline of the Void is quite good if and only if you shouldn't be running Manaless Dredge in your metagame, so I usually advise against it. The same applies to Leyline of Sanctity, although much less strongly. Gut Shot is worth considering, depending on metagame. Contagion follows the same logic. Surgical Extraction I personally dislike, but it's the best targeted choice and will be correct for some metagames. Marrow Shards is good only if you have a very weenie-centric metagame. Chalice of the Void is definitely worth considering, mostly as an anti-combo measure. It's kinda too cute to mention, but as I've said before Golgari Brownscale+Firemane Angel and perhaps even Sheltered Valley can do good work against aggro. Wasteland is probably powerful enough to consider by itself, as is Maze of Ith. There's also Desert, Quicksand, Bojuka Bog, and other spell-lands like The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale. Tormod's Crypt is more free hate, along with the obvious traps. Finally, Zuran Orb can be used with Salvage against aggro (but Brownscale is just better).
Finally, you can tweak quite a bit to figure out which Dread Return targets you want.
So you can obviously focus it a bit between fighting hate and racing aggro or racing combo (control decks you crush unless they have hate).
A sample sideboard:
4 Chancellor of the Annex
1 Child of Alara
4 Mindbreak Trap
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Leyline of Anticipation
Turn 1 Thoughtseize is worth at least a turn against basically every hand from basically every deck. It harms us less than most, especially since the value plummets after turn 1.
Finally, your deck looks like it could support River Kelpie over Sphinx. The main benefit is actually the persist, which reduces the mental acrobatics needed to find enough creatures for FKZ to be lethal. Drawing Griselbrand-sized numbers of cards is nice too.
Check it out!
http://www.eternalcentral.com/resource-advantage-in-magic-part-1-one-shot-resources/
http://www.eternalcentral.com/resource-advantage-in-magic-part2-tempo/
I've also written a short primer on Manaless Dredge in Vintage:
http://www.eternalcentral.com/the-dredge-of-glory-an-introduction-to-manaless-dredge-in-vintage/
4x Golgari Thug
3x Shambling Shell
4x Stinkweed Imp
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
4x Balustrade Spy
1x Flayer of the Hatebound
4x Ichorid
4x Narcomeba
4x Nether Shadow
4x Phantasmagorian
4x Street Wraith
4x Chancellor of the Annex
4x Bridge from Below
Sorceries (12)
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Dread Return
4x Unmask
4x Sickening Shoal
4x Contagion
I need ways to deal with Tormod's Crypt/Rest in Peace/etc. Any ideas?
EDH
WBRKaalia of the VastRBW
BChainer, Dementia MasterB
Legacy
0Manaless Dredge0
RGoblinsR
Standard
RBWThe AristocratsWBR
4 Chancellor of the Annex
4 Golgari-Grave Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
4 Shambling Shell
4 Ichorid
3 Nether Shadow
4 Narcomoeba
4 Dryad Arbor
2 Griselbrand
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bridge from Below
4 Dread Return
2 Sickening Shoal
1 Angel of Despair
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Mindbreak Trap
3 Noxious Revival
1 Sickening Shoal
2 Contagion
Thoughts on how this could be improved? I feel like the sideboard is the weakest aspect of it since it's very aggressive.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
EDH
WBRKaalia of the VastRBW
BChainer, Dementia MasterB
Legacy
0Manaless Dredge0
RGoblinsR
Standard
RBWThe AristocratsWBR
My thought was playing Chancellor of the Forge and siding out Chancellor of the Annex. Annex gives us a extra turn to combo out before they go off. Forge can helps us go off turn two with more consistency. For faster decks like Storm and Belcher you can side in Annex.
Thoughts?
One extra creature won't help us that much I think.
I like CotA mostly for it's utility versus Deathrite Shaman - that card is a real thorn. with CotA[/CARD, Phantasmagorian, and Stree Wraith we have twelve cards that can help us outrace it. Not to shabby. Once we get our yard going DRS is still a liability, but beatable.
Cards which outright kill DRS slow us down too much, I think. We alwasy chose to draw, so if they play DRS turn one we won't get a chance to kill it after discarding but before it becomes "unsick". If we kill it first we are also out cards and may have a hard time discarding - especially if the opponent is also packing discard (which incidentally is also stopped by Chancellor Of The Annex).
I say maindeck four!
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UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
New to the deck, and am enjoying it, waiting till I can take it to a Legacy weekly event. My current deck is
I'm thinking of running a SB of
I feel as though I'm setting myself up for failure with this SB though, siding out Spy+ Shuffler, Dread Return, G.Probe and whatever else is necessary.
I have no idea what to do for a SB. I want to keep one Angel in there because there are several show and tell decks in my meta (hence the Leviathan as well.) What I really would like to do is add a Chancellor of the Forge to the MD. Not sure if I want to go to 3 Annex, 1 Forge, but I feel as though on the combo turn, the more options you have, the better, in regards to flipping the deck... then what? First choice is obv. Flayer into Grave-Troll. With all the tokens and other critters that will be in play, returning a C.Forge should net 12+ tokens for a swing. I like C.Forge over FKZ, if in opening hand, get that first creature to sac.
Could C.Forge take the place of one G.Probe?