How often do we really get matched up against Enchantress, though?
I know two players locally that play it so we have a lot of it in our small group, and it's a difficult matchup (albeit not impossible), but I don't think "Enchantress wrecks us" is a good argument for any card ever.
thanks for the reply! I was drawn to the fact that you have 3 oblivion stones in the sideboard. How have these been working out for you? At first glance it seems really clunky but i'd like to hear your reasoning.
I like it as an out for some of our swingy matchups. There isn't really one deck in specific (other than blade, which can actually be a bit hard after boarding if you don't always have a way to stop jace), I just have them categorized in my mind as O-Stone decks. These include decks that cheat emrakul and other fatties into play, nic fit, anything with moon effects, stax, and enchantress. I usually bring one in against maverick, merfolk, the rock, and other such midrangey decks that I don't have sideboard silver bullets against, but that could potentially have answers to explosives.
For anecdotal evidence, I was playing against Esper Blade on day 2 of GP indy, and he had countermagic for my explosives with leyline of the void out, he had countered my first o-stone which was in my yard (he had to hardcast leyline), and had cliqued away my second o-stone, and was cliqueing me every turn because of his karakas. I drew into my third stone and he cliqued me, in response to which I used academy ruins to put my o-stone in yard on top. This gave him no options other than to get o-stoned (he did wisely put the one in hand on bottom though), and he lost shortly thereafter to bob advantage. Situations like these are why I like having extra redundancy.
On the topic of enchantress, it's an absurdly good matchup. If you port/ghost quarter their growthed lands, they become a really slow deck that gets wrecked by explosives and o-stone.
that sounds convincing. I'm running a version similar to malacoda's though (enlightened tutors). Do you think the 3 SB o stones could fit with such a game plan as well?
I bet your opponent must've been stunned to see 3 consecutive o stones. If i were him I'd feel like I was being trolled.
that sounds convincing. I'm running a version similar to malacoda's though (enlightened tutors). Do you think the 3 SB o stones could fit with such a game plan as well?
I bet your opponent must've been stunned to see 3 consecutive o stones. If i were him I'd feel like I was being trolled.
I would assume so as I usually board out the intuitions, so your and my builds would look pretty similar after sideboarding in most cases. I'm not 100% sure though, I haven't played with just E-Tutor anywhere near as much as with both tutor and intuition.
Its always a good time casting multiple o-stones. Most people have to read it, make some remark about edh, then make some joke about edh rules allowing only one of a card. Then their jaces explode.
so I've been lurking on the lands thread for a very long time and finally decided to post...basically I have a couple of questions
1) considering the meta is now dominated by blade decks, delver decks, and maverick - can someone summarise the strategy against these decks as well as what to sideboard?
2) now that I'm on the topic of sideboarding, what are the cards in the deck that can be sideboarded out? I'm not a good enough player to know which cards are integral to the engine and MUST stay in (can I cut 1 life from the loam in g2 for example? My guess is no since we rely on it so much?), and which cards can be boarded out situationally. I am aware that we usually bring in 4 confidant in g2, what are the cards they usually replace?
3) I think I asked this question before a long time ago but my memory is a little sketchy. How do we determine what hands are keepable/barely keepable/definite shipback? If you have the knowledge that your opponent is playing blue, will the benchmark for keeping a hand change?
Its great that you guys are discussing card choices and stuff, but scrubs like me still have these "noob" questions at the back of our minds and struggle to keep up
Hopefully someone would be kind enough to answer in detail...and if Koopa sees this maybe update the first post to address these "noob" questions as well? Thank you in advance to all!
I pretty much just agree with cuthbert here, but I'd also like to mention some problems that can arise in these MUs and some strategies of my own:
Stoneblade can do some serious damage with Geist. He's a real problem for us and is actually the main reason I'm still running Factories in my list. We can Maze the token, but we can't take care of an equipped Geist. Also keep in mind that in some scenarios, the constant stream of countermagic from Stoneblade can be enough to cut off the Loam engine for a few turns, which is all they'll need to get in with Geist. I've lost to the consecutive "counter your Loam three times in a row" play several times and it really sucks. At SCG LA I Extirpated a UWR Blade's Brainstorms and he showed me a hand of 4 Force and a Spell Snare...
I tend to board somewhere along these lines for UW Blade (this would be the most extreme board plan):
+4 Dark Confidant
+1 Phyrexian Revoker
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Chalice of the Void
+1 Engineered Explosives
+1 Phyrexian Revoker
+1 Sylvok Replica
+1 Grafdigger's Cage
+1 Tower of the Magistrate
-2 Manabond
-1 Exploration
-1 Life From the Loam (since they're bringing in Surgicals and Bob is our main plan here anyway, 1 Loam is ok to cut in a lot of situations)
-1 Cursed Totem
-1 Enlightened Tutor
-1 Karakas
-5 other cards.
I tend to keep 1-2 Tutors in. If they're smart they're going to board out some countermagic anyways and Tutors can really help. For the "other cards," I often just break sets. It does suck, but it's the only real way to get those artifacts in, and they really can make or break games. That said, I'm also considering cutting Tower for another O-Stone or something since we rarely lose to Batterskull anyway. It helps some of the time, but probably not enough to really matter IMO.
For RUG, hands with Loam + Waste mean that you literally cannot lose G1. Be ready for Ancient Grudge postboard. That card ****s my list more than the Intuition builds as I'm a fair bit more artifact heavy, but it can definitely give all builds trouble as it's an actual answer to Ensnaring Bridge for at least a little. Also, the Snap -> Surgical thing can be really rough in that MU especially if they've got Mongoose to accompany it. Chalice is so good here.
I tend to bring in Bobs as well against RUG. I usually board:
+4 Bob
+1 Chalice
+1 Cage (if they're playing Snapcaster)
+1 EE
-2 Manabond
-1 Loam
-1 Karakas
-1 Cursed Totem
-1 or 2 E-Tutor
Maverick is very build dependent since we have GW/GWR/GWU/GWRU variants all running around, but Needle effects are obviously absurd against them and EE for 2 does a ton of work. They run Crypt and sometimes Loaming Shaman, so we can keep in the full set of Loams.
For pre-board hands, you can honestly keep really loose hands and win. This deck also mulligans crazy well. I tend to look for:
a) Loam + accelerant. It's usually enough to push a win in G1.
b) Loam + Waste. Don't keep like Loam, Waste, 3 Mox, 2 E-Tutor or something, but hands with these two cards are just so powerful against UG/X Tempo and Maverick.
c) Disruptive lands. You can honestly keep 7-land hands in this deck in some situations (e.g. - Maze, Waste, Karakas, Dual, Fetch, Factory, Tranquil Thicket). All hands can really be ok if you've got enough land-based disruption - it's all uncounterable, and it just crushes opponents who keep loose hands.
You don't need to be looking for E-Tutors early most of the time. They're good to have against RUG/Maverick/other decks that lose to Cursed Totem and/or Ensnaring Bridge, but having one in your opening hand will often just not mean that much. I rarely E-Tutor for an accelerant, but the option is always there if I need one.
For general post-board game play, just make sure you've got enough gas to develop - be that a Loam + accelerant hand, or a Loam + Mox hand, or, ideally, a hand with a Mox and Bob against a counterless deck so you can slam him turn 1
I actually messaged Koopa with a link to the new primer that cuthbert and I wrote on www.mtgthesource.com, but I guess he hasn't updated yet.
This is my current list, I'm considering changing the phyrexian revoker in my board for the 4th e-tutor to bring in against maverick.
I've just always been wary of the terrible "double E-Tutor hand clog" that occurs, but I also might put a 4th in the board, probably replacing Tower of the Magistrate.
For anecdotal evidence, I was playing against Esper Blade on day 2 of GP indy, and he had countermagic for my explosives with leyline of the void out, he had countered my first o-stone which was in my yard (he had to hardcast leyline), and had cliqued away my second o-stone, and was cliqueing me every turn because of his karakas. I drew into my third stone and he cliqued me, in response to which I used academy ruins to put my o-stone in yard on top. This gave him no options other than to get o-stoned (he did wisely put the one in hand on bottom though), and he lost shortly thereafter to bob advantage. Situations like these are why I like having extra redundancy.
On the topic of enchantress, it's an absurdly good matchup. If you port/ghost quarter their growthed lands, they become a really slow deck that gets wrecked by explosives and o-stone.
I remember watching this, haha, especiallysince I also played against your Esperblade opponent at SCG Cincy. Having that redundancy was awesome.
I played against Enchantress last round of the GP and actually lost 1-2. Game 1 I Ported him down and he couldn't do anything, especially once I hit Smokestack, but Games 2 and 3 he ended up with Aura of Silence, Sacred Ground, and Wheel of Sun and Moon. It honestly felt like a really terrible MU since they're fairly Waste-proof and 2-3 mana should not be hard for any deck to hit. City of Solitude also shuts off Ports, which really sucks, and some builds even run Blood Moon. However, they can't deal with Glacial Chasm and since they basically have no permanent destruction, it's often GG if we get that out with Loam. Still didn't feel positive to me.
that sounds convincing. I'm running a version similar to malacoda's though (enlightened tutors). Do you think the 3 SB o stones could fit with such a game plan as well?
I bet your opponent must've been stunned to see 3 consecutive o stones. If i were him I'd feel like I was being trolled.
I have actually recently added an O-Stone to the SB of my list as well simply as an out to those stupid board clog situations like cuthbert mentioned.
wow thanks for the long reply. I agree that o stone is needed to deal with walkers and multiple converted-cc threats, however what i meant was that I would have felt that 3 might be a little clunky, especially when we have tutors. Its also quite a dead card to have in opening hands.
I find enchantress quite hard to beat with land. Even with smokestack out they seem to get more out than you if you don't get your ports. Ground Seal and Replenish are a pain to deal with. You need to get academy and explosives going end of their turn, which doesn't happen as much as I like it. Game 2 you need to deal with Stony Silence, Wheel of Sun and Moon, Aura of Silence, and Sacred Ground. Not cool.
I could be me playing the deck terribly, but I have a hard time dealing with enchantress. Enchantress is played a bit in my area and I find that playing o-stone cleans them out quite well. I rather an o-stone than EE in this MU.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think cuthbert mentioned this a few posts back, the game plan against enchantress involves going for waste/quarter lock especially on the enchanted lands to slow them down, blow up some of the enchantments like mirri's guile/sprawl with EE...then win with recuring oblivion stone.
I've realised that you guys seem to board out manabonds quite often for g2 and 3. I thought manabonds can potentially be a blowout, so I'd like to hear the reasoning for this. Also...
@ malacoda
does it hurt the deck much when you board out an E tutor or 2 in games 2 and 3? Sometimes I feel like I'm making a mistake when boarding it out, especially when i need something *right now* and lost because I didnt.
ADDED: also, i read somewhere that glacial chasm is not an auto win against an experienced burn pilot. I still can't figure out how burn can beat the chasm. Has it got to do with bolting you between the recursions?
Manabond makes you commit to the graveyard in G2 and G3. Most decks dont have GY removal in G1, so you are safer relying on your yard more. They are also the least necessary (in my opinion) for the deck to function.
Also, I just got my last cards in the mail today, so I officially have Lands 100% built now! I have a local legacy tournament coming up on 4/21/12, so I will write up a little report from that!
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I think cuthbert mentioned this a few posts back, the game plan against enchantress involves going for waste/quarter lock especially on the enchanted lands to slow them down, blow up some of the enchantments like mirri's guile/sprawl with EE...then win with recuring oblivion stone.
I've realised that you guys seem to board out manabonds quite often for g2 and 3. I thought manabonds can potentially be a blowout, so I'd like to hear the reasoning for this. Also...
@ malacoda
does it hurt the deck much when you board out an E tutor or 2 in games 2 and 3? Sometimes I feel like I'm making a mistake when boarding it out, especially when i need something *right now* and lost because I didnt.
ADDED: also, i read somewhere that glacial chasm is not an auto win against an experienced burn pilot. I still can't figure out how burn can beat the chasm. Has it got to do with bolting you between the recursions?
Port is also good against enchantress. If burn holds prices for when chasm dies, they can get you.
For boarding out tutor, I think its right to board some number out againts most blue decks because of how terrible they are against counters, and because chalices of the void often come in.
G1: I slow rolled him and took my time to win game 1, knowing I'm having full control. Wasteland+loam basically got it for me. I did see lingering souls (answered by tolaria west + explosives) and stoneforge into batterskull (answered by mazes) but thats it. He started packing when 35 minutes have passed and he realised he was going nowhere.
G2: He brought in surgical extractions. At some point he extractions away my wasteland (instead of loam - huge play error on his part). I had the tranquil thicket in hand all game long so its irrelevant in the end. He played a jace at some point but he had to tap out to do so and it was in desperation (because he used the brainstorm), i already had creeping tar pit and mishra's factory by then so no problems. I just lock him up pretty much the same way i did in G1.
thoughts: insanely good matchup, no way we can lose this?
Round 2: high tide 0-2 loss
G1: I don't have chalices mainboard. Lose in double quick time. I notice he has candelabras.
G2: got him down to 5 life with a combination of double bob, ethersworn canonist, pithing needle naming candelabra. He force of wills my chalice on 1 at some point. Then before going off, he echoing truths my canonist and then thats it.
thoughts: ****, no chance at all.
Round 3: burn 0-2 loss
G1: showed him a chasm, asked him if he can beat it, he said yes and proceeded to use instant speed burns.
G2: play error (i thought i could transmute anytime but its only a sorcery), wanted to find my zuran orb but because of play error i could only do it a turn later. He responded to the transmute with 2 bolts and a fireblast and thats it.
thoughts: boarded in COP red and the tutor to find it, no luck
Round 4: high tide/severance belcher hybrid 0-2 loss
G1: no way to interact, lost via severence belcher on t3 or 4.
G2: lost again when he has 2 high tides in opening hand.
thoughts: nothing i could do
overall 1-3 drop...i had so many dead cards most games, maindeck cursed totem, tabernacle, maze of iths etc...
then somebody came over and said current metagame in my area is more towards control and combo....can someone recommend me a deck that can handle control and combo well? I should play that until the meta is more favourable toward playing lands again.
Dont get me wrong I'm not jumping ship, i love lands and all its just that maybe now isn't the right environment for me to play it.
@malacoda:
thanks for answering my PMs in really quick time, I hoped I could have done better to justify that.
You guys know enchantress is a better smokestack deck than Lands, right? Their engine is far stronger. Also, emrakul beats chasm.
Isn't Emrakul one of the reasons Lands runs Karakas in the side?
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"It's actually quite simple, but since you've only recently begun to walk upright, it may take some time to explain."
—Jace Beleren, to Garruk Wildspeaker
So, I'm a little new to control and I've always liked the different Lands decks because new lands come out with every set (so every once in a while, these decks get thrown a few bones). However, I am definitely new to running this type of deck concept (I am a Dredge player) and I would like to build a Land deck in the near future for my control deck.
That being said, I was wondering if Standstill would work well in this particular type of Lands deck or not. I really like the higher land count for added widespread control, but am unsure whether that would fit or not. I was also wondering about Crop Rotation for an added toolbox effect to grab lands.
Please let me know what you think. Like I said, I really want to get into some type of Land control deck.
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"It's actually quite simple, but since you've only recently begun to walk upright, it may take some time to explain."
—Jace Beleren, to Garruk Wildspeaker
G1: I slow rolled him and took my time to win game 1, knowing I'm having full control. Wasteland+loam basically got it for me. I did see lingering souls (answered by tolaria west + explosives) and stoneforge into batterskull (answered by mazes) but thats it. He started packing when 35 minutes have passed and he realised he was going nowhere.
G2: He brought in surgical extractions. At some point he extractions away my wasteland (instead of loam - huge play error on his part). I had the tranquil thicket in hand all game long so its irrelevant in the end. He played a jace at some point but he had to tap out to do so and it was in desperation (because he used the brainstorm), i already had creeping tar pit and mishra's factory by then so no problems. I just lock him up pretty much the same way i did in G1.
thoughts: insanely good matchup, no way we can lose this?
Round 2: high tide 0-2 loss
G1: I don't have chalices mainboard. Lose in double quick time. I notice he has candelabras.
G2: got him down to 5 life with a combination of double bob, ethersworn canonist, pithing needle naming candelabra. He force of wills my chalice on 1 at some point. Then before going off, he echoing truths my canonist and then thats it.
thoughts: ****, no chance at all.
Round 3: burn 0-2 loss
G1: showed him a chasm, asked him if he can beat it, he said yes and proceeded to use instant speed burns.
G2: play error (i thought i could transmute anytime but its only a sorcery), wanted to find my zuran orb but because of play error i could only do it a turn later. He responded to the transmute with 2 bolts and a fireblast and thats it.
thoughts: boarded in COP red and the tutor to find it, no luck
Round 4: high tide/severance belcher hybrid 0-2 loss
G1: no way to interact, lost via severence belcher on t3 or 4.
G2: lost again when he has 2 high tides in opening hand.
thoughts: nothing i could do
overall 1-3 drop...i had so many dead cards most games, maindeck cursed totem, tabernacle, maze of iths etc...
then somebody came over and said current metagame in my area is more towards control and combo....can someone recommend me a deck that can handle control and combo well? I should play that until the meta is more favourable toward playing lands again.
Dont get me wrong I'm not jumping ship, i love lands and all its just that maybe now isn't the right environment for me to play it.
@malacoda:
thanks for answering my PMs in really quick time, I hoped I could have done better to justify that.
Wow, those are some rough matchups. I'm honestly feeling about the same way about lands right now after SCG Des Moines. I played against 2 combo decks in the swiss which eliminated my chance of top 8ing, just based on matchups alone. I'm finding it harder to just accept this decks awful combo matchup. It doesn't even matter if the combo pilot is good at their deck or not, lands is still getting crushed. Frustrating, to say the least. I was considering running the BUG control deck that's been doing decently lately, it has the same positive matchups against the top 3 decks, but it at least has a fighting chance against combo, especially postboard. It looks to have a similar playstyle to lands also.
If you want a deck with a positive combo and control matchup, you should look into the 4 orim's chant 3 silence lists of doomsday. You have too many chants for combo to go off profitably and enough protection and resilience to beat control. Maverick and RUG Delver are rough matchups, but you beat blade variants handily and can sideboard dread of night and the like to beat maverick.
So, I'm a little new to control and I've always liked the different Lands decks because new lands come out with every set (so every once in a while, these decks get thrown a few bones). However, I am definitely new to running this type of deck concept (I am a Dredge player) and I would like to build a Land deck in the near future for my control deck.
That being said, I was wondering if Standstill would work well in this particular type of Lands deck or not. I really like the higher land count for added widespread control, but am unsure whether that would fit or not. I was also wondering about Crop Rotation for an added toolbox effect to grab lands.
Please let me know what you think. Like I said, I really want to get into some type of Land control deck.
Standstill isn't good because we want to be either a) tutoring or b) loaming every turn, both of which involve playing spells. If you're at a point in the game where you can afford to be doing neither, you've probably got the game locked up.
Crop Rotation is alright, but getting it countered feels awful. Also, it's a tutor that doesn't get loam, accelerants, or silver bullet artifacts, so it can't be your primary tutor engine, making finding slots for it difficult.
Standstill isn't good because we want to be either a) tutoring or b) loaming every turn, both of which involve playing spells. If you're at a point in the game where you can afford to be doing neither, you've probably got the game locked up.
Crop Rotation is alright, but getting it countered feels awful. Also, it's a tutor that doesn't get loam, accelerants, or silver bullet artifacts, so it can't be your primary tutor engine, making finding slots for it difficult.
Thanks. So, I know this is the primer and whatnot, but I couldn't find a play strategy post about how to play a lands deck in the first couple pages. Could someone please help me out and either help me find it or just explain it to me?
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From what I hear, one guy is building Maverick, another one is has Dredge, there is some affinity, and a few other random decks in my meta. I started building this deck of malacoda's list, and then changed some things up. I added intuition back into the deck because I felt it needed another way to get loam or create situations that found you an answer no matter what. I originally cut the tops for the intuitions, but I took out the horizon canopy for it instead. I also messed with the sideboard a bit. Not sure if the Karakas should be in the deck right now. I know many people are opting not to play Emrakul/Progenitus, so I don't think it is as good for us.
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Not sure if the Karakas should be in the deck right now. I know many people are opting not to play Emrakul/Progenitus, so I don't think it is as good for us.
It should definitely be in because of Maverick, sometimes bouncing Teeg and/or Thalia is crucial. I know I've used it as an additional maze against Maverick tons of times.
So I went 1-1-1 today, and placed 3rd out of 13 people. All of my losses were to my own play error and still becoming more familiar with the deck.
Prior to the tournament
Before the tournament, I decided that I wanted to cut the intuitions. I heard some guys talking about them, and they were talking about how it was good as a 3-4 but anything less than that is not worth it. I ended up sleeving up Malacoda's version of the deck.
Quick Aside - I find that Malacoda's deck works very well! I felt I had the right tools in my matchups, but I really didn't know how to use them right.
Anyways, while I was searching to make sure I had everything, I found that a Karakas was missing. I grabbed one from my binder and threw it in. Then, come to my surprise, Match 3 I find myself holding 2 Karakas in my hand.
Lesson Learned - Make sure you count the cards in your deck correctly before you play. I could have realized that there were 62 cards in my deck, but I didnt take the time to do it.
Match 1
I get paired against a GW Turbowave deck with Lotus Cobra and Ob Nixilis. It looks like a Modern deck that someone wanted to play in Legacy. I had a hard time stabilizing because I had no plan for primeval titan, but eventually I landed Ensnaring Bridge. This is where things went south. I was dredging Loam each turn, but I wasn't taking enough cards to attack with my Creeping Tar Pit. I would take 3 cards, play them, and pass the turn. I should have attacked with the Tar Pit, and then passed the turn with 0 cards in hand. I couldn't seal the deal fast enough, even though I would have killed him eventually, and he wouldn't concede the match to me. We ended up going to time and drawing.
0-0-1
Lesson Learned - Use Loam to help you play through your own Ensnaring Bridge.
Match 2
I got paired agains some mono Green deck. I got Ghost Quarter lock on him turn 2 with a Tabernacle turn 4, and he couldn't recover from that. Game 2 I side in Bobs for 2 Manabond, 1 Tutor and 1 Mox Diamond. I get on the Tar Pit plan and start laying beats as soon as possible. He doesn't come up with an answer, and I win the game.
1-0-1
Match 3
I get paired against UW Stoneblade. Game 1 I get beat down by Snapcasters and Stoneforeges. I didn't draw any mazes, tabernacles, or anything to interact with his creatures. My loam dredges were terriblle. I sided in 4 Bob, 1 Revoker, 1 Tower of the Magistrate, and 1 Cursed Totem for 2 Manabond, 1 Loam, 1 E Tutor, 1 Diamond, 1 Karakas, and 1 Other card. G2 I land Bob and he looks at it weird before letting it resolve. We play draw go for a bit, I land tower to counteract his batterskull, find a maze to deal with his guys, and then he lands Jace. This is where things go bad. He fateseals me, leaves it on top. I am at 2 life. I know the card will kill me. I untap, flip it, and die. Then I try to sac a land with Zuran Orb only to find out I can't do that because the trigger has to resolve. Oops. I probably would have won that one too. I also could have academy ruins a mox diamond on top, but didn't count my mana correct.
1-1-1
Lesson Learned: Make sure to count your mana correctly when you want to do something. Take your time and make sure to do it right. Also, if you are using Orb to survive a confidant hit, do it before you reveal since you cant do it after.
Overall, I am impressed with my performance with the deck. I fell I did well for only doing a few test games against affinity before playing. I need to tighten up my technical play, but I will definitely keep playing this deck.
Also, what is our game plan against Nic Fit? I saw two people playing it there, and it looks like a horrible matchup for us. Am I mistaken in this, or is this bad news bears for us?
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Port is also good against enchantress. If burn holds prices for when chasm dies, they can get you.
For boarding out tutor, I think its right to board some number out againts most blue decks because of how terrible they are against counters, and because chalices of the void often come in.
Port is basically the only way we can win G1 against Enchantress, but if they keep a 2 lander and we get a Port on their Growthed land, they can't do anything and you can Stax them out before they get their engine going. Post-board it can be really bad since they have Wheel of Sun and Moon, Ground Seal, Sacred Ground, and tons of other terrible things.
I was also wondering about Crop Rotation for an added toolbox effect to grab lands.
Crop Rotation is generally too narrow. Our other tutors (Enlightened, Entomb, Intuition) are far more flexible and can really get any answer. Tolaria West is enough tutoring for Lands. While it's a very powerful effect, it can be played around (opponents don't fall for the surprise Glacial Chasm more than once) and is generally redundant, plus is dead when milled. It also dilutes the land count.
Wow, those are some rough matchups. I'm honestly feeling about the same way about lands right now after SCG Des Moines. I played against 2 combo decks in the swiss which eliminated my chance of top 8ing, just based on matchups alone. I'm finding it harder to just accept this decks awful combo matchup. It doesn't even matter if the combo pilot is good at their deck or not, lands is still getting crushed. Frustrating, to say the least. I was considering running the BUG control deck that's been doing decently lately, it has the same positive matchups against the top 3 decks, but it at least has a fighting chance against combo, especially postboard. It looks to have a similar playstyle to lands also.
If you want a deck with a positive combo and control matchup, you should look into the 4 orim's chant 3 silence lists of doomsday. You have too many chants for combo to go off profitably and enough protection and resilience to beat control. Maverick and RUG Delver are rough matchups, but you beat blade variants handily and can sideboard dread of night and the like to beat maverick.
I also think it's a pretty hostile environment right now, but I've been having relatively good MUs against combo. Not positive, but recently I've been 3/3 and that's as good as Stoneblade in some scenarios. TES has terrible mana. ANT is also somewhat mana-vulnerable, and also has problems getting rid of multiple hatebears. Doomsday is the only Storm deck I have consistently lost to recently, and I went 1-2 against it at GP Indy only because he ripped one of those many Chants off the top and delayed me casting Canonist for a turn. The burn matchup, however, sucks unless you can stick a really fast COP. UR Delver can be even worse at times.
Quick Aside - I find that Malacoda's deck works very well! I felt I had the right tools in my matchups, but I really didn't know how to use them right.
Thanks!
Lesson Learned - Use Loam to help you play through your own Ensnaring Bridge.
Yeah. This is very important in grindy matchups like BUG with Jace, as you can't break through a wall of Goyfs with Factory but need the Bridge to hold back their offense. It's also a good way to push damage through stubborn opponents who don't scoop when they should. Ob Nixilis sounds rough, damage we can't prevent is terrible. It's hilarious that you Quarter-Locked a mono green deck. I did it once to Merfolk. Took ages.
I get paired against UW Stoneblade. Game 1 I get beat down by Snapcasters and Stoneforeges. I didn't draw any mazes, tabernacles, or anything to interact with his creatures. My loam dredges were terriblle. I sided in 4 Bob, 1 Revoker, 1 Tower of the Magistrate, and 1 Cursed Totem for 2 Manabond, 1 Loam, 1 E Tutor, 1 Diamond, 1 Karakas, and 1 Other card. G2 I land Bob and he looks at it weird before letting it resolve. We play draw go for a bit, I land tower to counteract his batterskull, find a maze to deal with his guys, and then he lands Jace. This is where things go bad. He fateseals me, leaves it on top. I am at 2 life. I know the card will kill me. I untap, flip it, and die. Then I try to sac a land with Zuran Orb only to find out I can't do that because the trigger has to resolve. Oops. I probably would have won that one too. I also could have academy ruins a mox diamond on top, but didn't count my mana correct.
Yeah, just sounds like you need more experience. Were you not able to punch Jace with Bob once you had handled the Batterskull? Or did he have a clog of guys and you had no Tar Pit? Cursed Totem is generally bad against Stoneblade since we have a ton of more effective things. Snapcaster is triggered and we don't really care about Batterskull.
Also, what is our game plan against Nic Fit? I saw two people playing it there, and it looks like a horrible matchup for us. Am I mistaken in this, or is this bad news bears for us?
I beat it once, but only because of an inexperienced pilot. Mana Denial is basically useless since they have tons of basics and ways to ramp into them. They have Pulse and sometimes Vindicate to deal with our things, and Deed can be terrible for us. They also have Witness, Ooze, and Thrun. It can be really rough. The game plan, sad to say, is "hope they draw badly." You can win if they somehow get mana screwed and you can lock them early enough, and Bojuka Bog helps, but usually they just have the answers.
After losing yesterday to RUG Tempo in the finals of an SCG IQ, I really think factory is necessary again in this deck in some number, not just a flex slot. The two games I lost were to Mongoose damage, with the one that I won being at two life from mongoose damage with a bob in play over five turns and somehow not dying. I think I'm going to cut an intuition and one other card, maybe a manabond for two factories. Thoughts?
After losing yesterday to RUG Tempo in the finals of an SCG IQ, I really think factory is necessary again in this deck in some number, not just a flex slot. The two games I lost were to Mongoose damage, with the one that I won being at two life from mongoose damage with a bob in play over five turns and somehow not dying. I think I'm going to cut an intuition and one other card, maybe a manabond for two factories. Thoughts?
Yeah, that's the reason I've been running 2 Factories forever. RUG also tends to like doing Waste Maze -> Extract Maze against me, and it's really hard to beat RUG without Maze of Ith. I managed to resolve a Crucible one game and won at 2 life by continually fending off a 6/7 Goyf before I got the EE lock.
You know I'm not a huge fan of Intuition, so I think that's fine. I generally like having 2 Manabonds but you've got the extra tutors so I think 1 is fine.
Boarding in Bob vs. RUG can be really dangerous but it's gotta be the right play since they can attack Loam so aggressively.
Yeah, that's the reason I've been running 2 Factories forever. RUG also tends to like doing Waste Maze -> Extract Maze against me, and it's really hard to beat RUG without Maze of Ith. I managed to resolve a Crucible one game and won at 2 life by continually fending off a 6/7 Goyf before I got the EE lock.
You know I'm not a huge fan of Intuition, so I think that's fine. I generally like having 2 Manabonds but you've got the extra tutors so I think 1 is fine.
Boarding in Bob vs. RUG can be really dangerous but it's gotta be the right play since they can attack Loam so aggressively.
I'm not actually sure Bob is right for that matchup, I was thinking that 2 O-Stones, a Tormod's Crypt, and Cop-Red would be better to board in. O-Stones are clunky, but they kill the goose, crypt stalls the goose for a bit, and cop-red is another way not to die to burn after the board is locked up.
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I know two players locally that play it so we have a lot of it in our small group, and it's a difficult matchup (albeit not impossible), but I don't think "Enchantress wrecks us" is a good argument for any card ever.
I like it as an out for some of our swingy matchups. There isn't really one deck in specific (other than blade, which can actually be a bit hard after boarding if you don't always have a way to stop jace), I just have them categorized in my mind as O-Stone decks. These include decks that cheat emrakul and other fatties into play, nic fit, anything with moon effects, stax, and enchantress. I usually bring one in against maverick, merfolk, the rock, and other such midrangey decks that I don't have sideboard silver bullets against, but that could potentially have answers to explosives.
For anecdotal evidence, I was playing against Esper Blade on day 2 of GP indy, and he had countermagic for my explosives with leyline of the void out, he had countered my first o-stone which was in my yard (he had to hardcast leyline), and had cliqued away my second o-stone, and was cliqueing me every turn because of his karakas. I drew into my third stone and he cliqued me, in response to which I used academy ruins to put my o-stone in yard on top. This gave him no options other than to get o-stoned (he did wisely put the one in hand on bottom though), and he lost shortly thereafter to bob advantage. Situations like these are why I like having extra redundancy.
On the topic of enchantress, it's an absurdly good matchup. If you port/ghost quarter their growthed lands, they become a really slow deck that gets wrecked by explosives and o-stone.
I bet your opponent must've been stunned to see 3 consecutive o stones. If i were him I'd feel like I was being trolled.
I would assume so as I usually board out the intuitions, so your and my builds would look pretty similar after sideboarding in most cases. I'm not 100% sure though, I haven't played with just E-Tutor anywhere near as much as with both tutor and intuition.
Its always a good time casting multiple o-stones. Most people have to read it, make some remark about edh, then make some joke about edh rules allowing only one of a card. Then their jaces explode.
I pretty much just agree with cuthbert here, but I'd also like to mention some problems that can arise in these MUs and some strategies of my own:
Stoneblade can do some serious damage with Geist. He's a real problem for us and is actually the main reason I'm still running Factories in my list. We can Maze the token, but we can't take care of an equipped Geist. Also keep in mind that in some scenarios, the constant stream of countermagic from Stoneblade can be enough to cut off the Loam engine for a few turns, which is all they'll need to get in with Geist. I've lost to the consecutive "counter your Loam three times in a row" play several times and it really sucks. At SCG LA I Extirpated a UWR Blade's Brainstorms and he showed me a hand of 4 Force and a Spell Snare...
I tend to board somewhere along these lines for UW Blade (this would be the most extreme board plan):
+4 Dark Confidant
+1 Phyrexian Revoker
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Chalice of the Void
+1 Engineered Explosives
+1 Phyrexian Revoker
+1 Sylvok Replica
+1 Grafdigger's Cage
+1 Tower of the Magistrate
-2 Manabond
-1 Exploration
-1 Life From the Loam (since they're bringing in Surgicals and Bob is our main plan here anyway, 1 Loam is ok to cut in a lot of situations)
-1 Cursed Totem
-1 Enlightened Tutor
-1 Karakas
-5 other cards.
I tend to keep 1-2 Tutors in. If they're smart they're going to board out some countermagic anyways and Tutors can really help. For the "other cards," I often just break sets. It does suck, but it's the only real way to get those artifacts in, and they really can make or break games. That said, I'm also considering cutting Tower for another O-Stone or something since we rarely lose to Batterskull anyway. It helps some of the time, but probably not enough to really matter IMO.
For RUG, hands with Loam + Waste mean that you literally cannot lose G1. Be ready for Ancient Grudge postboard. That card ****s my list more than the Intuition builds as I'm a fair bit more artifact heavy, but it can definitely give all builds trouble as it's an actual answer to Ensnaring Bridge for at least a little. Also, the Snap -> Surgical thing can be really rough in that MU especially if they've got Mongoose to accompany it. Chalice is so good here.
I tend to bring in Bobs as well against RUG. I usually board:
+4 Bob
+1 Chalice
+1 Cage (if they're playing Snapcaster)
+1 EE
-2 Manabond
-1 Loam
-1 Karakas
-1 Cursed Totem
-1 or 2 E-Tutor
Maverick is very build dependent since we have GW/GWR/GWU/GWRU variants all running around, but Needle effects are obviously absurd against them and EE for 2 does a ton of work. They run Crypt and sometimes Loaming Shaman, so we can keep in the full set of Loams.
For pre-board hands, you can honestly keep really loose hands and win. This deck also mulligans crazy well. I tend to look for:
a) Loam + accelerant. It's usually enough to push a win in G1.
b) Loam + Waste. Don't keep like Loam, Waste, 3 Mox, 2 E-Tutor or something, but hands with these two cards are just so powerful against UG/X Tempo and Maverick.
c) Disruptive lands. You can honestly keep 7-land hands in this deck in some situations (e.g. - Maze, Waste, Karakas, Dual, Fetch, Factory, Tranquil Thicket). All hands can really be ok if you've got enough land-based disruption - it's all uncounterable, and it just crushes opponents who keep loose hands.
You don't need to be looking for E-Tutors early most of the time. They're good to have against RUG/Maverick/other decks that lose to Cursed Totem and/or Ensnaring Bridge, but having one in your opening hand will often just not mean that much. I rarely E-Tutor for an accelerant, but the option is always there if I need one.
For general post-board game play, just make sure you've got enough gas to develop - be that a Loam + accelerant hand, or a Loam + Mox hand, or, ideally, a hand with a Mox and Bob against a counterless deck so you can slam him turn 1
I actually messaged Koopa with a link to the new primer that cuthbert and I wrote on www.mtgthesource.com, but I guess he hasn't updated yet.
I've just always been wary of the terrible "double E-Tutor hand clog" that occurs, but I also might put a 4th in the board, probably replacing Tower of the Magistrate.
I remember watching this, haha, especiallysince I also played against your Esperblade opponent at SCG Cincy. Having that redundancy was awesome.
I played against Enchantress last round of the GP and actually lost 1-2. Game 1 I Ported him down and he couldn't do anything, especially once I hit Smokestack, but Games 2 and 3 he ended up with Aura of Silence, Sacred Ground, and Wheel of Sun and Moon. It honestly felt like a really terrible MU since they're fairly Waste-proof and 2-3 mana should not be hard for any deck to hit. City of Solitude also shuts off Ports, which really sucks, and some builds even run Blood Moon. However, they can't deal with Glacial Chasm and since they basically have no permanent destruction, it's often GG if we get that out with Loam. Still didn't feel positive to me.
I have actually recently added an O-Stone to the SB of my list as well simply as an out to those stupid board clog situations like cuthbert mentioned.
Lands WUBG
EDH:
Doran WBG
I could be me playing the deck terribly, but I have a hard time dealing with enchantress. Enchantress is played a bit in my area and I find that playing o-stone cleans them out quite well. I rather an o-stone than EE in this MU.
I've realised that you guys seem to board out manabonds quite often for g2 and 3. I thought manabonds can potentially be a blowout, so I'd like to hear the reasoning for this. Also...
@ malacoda
does it hurt the deck much when you board out an E tutor or 2 in games 2 and 3? Sometimes I feel like I'm making a mistake when boarding it out, especially when i need something *right now* and lost because I didnt.
ADDED: also, i read somewhere that glacial chasm is not an auto win against an experienced burn pilot. I still can't figure out how burn can beat the chasm. Has it got to do with bolting you between the recursions?
Also, I just got my last cards in the mail today, so I officially have Lands 100% built now! I have a local legacy tournament coming up on 4/21/12, so I will write up a little report from that!
Currently Playing
Standard: Esper Control | UWR Flash --- Modern: Melira Pod | Splinter Twin
Port is also good against enchantress. If burn holds prices for when chasm dies, they can get you.
For boarding out tutor, I think its right to board some number out againts most blue decks because of how terrible they are against counters, and because chalices of the void often come in.
Round 1: esper stoneblade 2-0 win
G1: I slow rolled him and took my time to win game 1, knowing I'm having full control. Wasteland+loam basically got it for me. I did see lingering souls (answered by tolaria west + explosives) and stoneforge into batterskull (answered by mazes) but thats it. He started packing when 35 minutes have passed and he realised he was going nowhere.
G2: He brought in surgical extractions. At some point he extractions away my wasteland (instead of loam - huge play error on his part). I had the tranquil thicket in hand all game long so its irrelevant in the end. He played a jace at some point but he had to tap out to do so and it was in desperation (because he used the brainstorm), i already had creeping tar pit and mishra's factory by then so no problems. I just lock him up pretty much the same way i did in G1.
thoughts: insanely good matchup, no way we can lose this?
Round 2: high tide 0-2 loss
G1: I don't have chalices mainboard. Lose in double quick time. I notice he has candelabras.
G2: got him down to 5 life with a combination of double bob, ethersworn canonist, pithing needle naming candelabra. He force of wills my chalice on 1 at some point. Then before going off, he echoing truths my canonist and then thats it.
thoughts: ****, no chance at all.
Round 3: burn 0-2 loss
G1: showed him a chasm, asked him if he can beat it, he said yes and proceeded to use instant speed burns.
G2: play error (i thought i could transmute anytime but its only a sorcery), wanted to find my zuran orb but because of play error i could only do it a turn later. He responded to the transmute with 2 bolts and a fireblast and thats it.
thoughts: boarded in COP red and the tutor to find it, no luck
Round 4: high tide/severance belcher hybrid 0-2 loss
G1: no way to interact, lost via severence belcher on t3 or 4.
G2: lost again when he has 2 high tides in opening hand.
thoughts: nothing i could do
overall 1-3 drop...i had so many dead cards most games, maindeck cursed totem, tabernacle, maze of iths etc...
then somebody came over and said current metagame in my area is more towards control and combo....can someone recommend me a deck that can handle control and combo well? I should play that until the meta is more favourable toward playing lands again.
Dont get me wrong I'm not jumping ship, i love lands and all its just that maybe now isn't the right environment for me to play it.
@malacoda:
thanks for answering my PMs in really quick time, I hoped I could have done better to justify that.
Isn't Emrakul one of the reasons Lands runs Karakas in the side?
—Jace Beleren, to Garruk Wildspeaker
That being said, I was wondering if Standstill would work well in this particular type of Lands deck or not. I really like the higher land count for added widespread control, but am unsure whether that would fit or not. I was also wondering about Crop Rotation for an added toolbox effect to grab lands.
Please let me know what you think. Like I said, I really want to get into some type of Land control deck.
—Jace Beleren, to Garruk Wildspeaker
Wow, those are some rough matchups. I'm honestly feeling about the same way about lands right now after SCG Des Moines. I played against 2 combo decks in the swiss which eliminated my chance of top 8ing, just based on matchups alone. I'm finding it harder to just accept this decks awful combo matchup. It doesn't even matter if the combo pilot is good at their deck or not, lands is still getting crushed. Frustrating, to say the least. I was considering running the BUG control deck that's been doing decently lately, it has the same positive matchups against the top 3 decks, but it at least has a fighting chance against combo, especially postboard. It looks to have a similar playstyle to lands also.
If you want a deck with a positive combo and control matchup, you should look into the 4 orim's chant 3 silence lists of doomsday. You have too many chants for combo to go off profitably and enough protection and resilience to beat control. Maverick and RUG Delver are rough matchups, but you beat blade variants handily and can sideboard dread of night and the like to beat maverick.
Standstill isn't good because we want to be either a) tutoring or b) loaming every turn, both of which involve playing spells. If you're at a point in the game where you can afford to be doing neither, you've probably got the game locked up.
Crop Rotation is alright, but getting it countered feels awful. Also, it's a tutor that doesn't get loam, accelerants, or silver bullet artifacts, so it can't be your primary tutor engine, making finding slots for it difficult.
Thanks. So, I know this is the primer and whatnot, but I couldn't find a play strategy post about how to play a lands deck in the first couple pages. Could someone please help me out and either help me find it or just explain it to me?
—Jace Beleren, to Garruk Wildspeaker
+1 on the primer. It's really good and detailed.
Also, here is the current list that I have so far. It's not perfect by any means, and probably needs some tweaking, but it seems to do fine for now.
4 Exploration
4 Life from the Loam
4 Mox Diamond
3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Intuition
2 Manabond
1 Zuran Orb
1 Smokestack
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sensei's Divining Top
Lands - 36
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Tolaria West
3 Maze of Ith
3 Tropical Island
2 Mishra's Factory
2 Tranquil Thicket
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Forest
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
4 Dark Confdant
2 Oblivion Stone
1 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Pithing Needle
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Sylvok Replica
1 Tower of the Magistrate
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
From what I hear, one guy is building Maverick, another one is has Dredge, there is some affinity, and a few other random decks in my meta. I started building this deck of malacoda's list, and then changed some things up. I added intuition back into the deck because I felt it needed another way to get loam or create situations that found you an answer no matter what. I originally cut the tops for the intuitions, but I took out the horizon canopy for it instead. I also messed with the sideboard a bit. Not sure if the Karakas should be in the deck right now. I know many people are opting not to play Emrakul/Progenitus, so I don't think it is as good for us.
Currently Playing
Standard: Esper Control | UWR Flash --- Modern: Melira Pod | Splinter Twin
It should definitely be in because of Maverick, sometimes bouncing Teeg and/or Thalia is crucial. I know I've used it as an additional maze against Maverick tons of times.
Prior to the tournament
Before the tournament, I decided that I wanted to cut the intuitions. I heard some guys talking about them, and they were talking about how it was good as a 3-4 but anything less than that is not worth it. I ended up sleeving up Malacoda's version of the deck.
Quick Aside - I find that Malacoda's deck works very well! I felt I had the right tools in my matchups, but I really didn't know how to use them right.
Anyways, while I was searching to make sure I had everything, I found that a Karakas was missing. I grabbed one from my binder and threw it in. Then, come to my surprise, Match 3 I find myself holding 2 Karakas in my hand.
Lesson Learned - Make sure you count the cards in your deck correctly before you play. I could have realized that there were 62 cards in my deck, but I didnt take the time to do it.
Match 1
I get paired against a GW Turbowave deck with Lotus Cobra and Ob Nixilis. It looks like a Modern deck that someone wanted to play in Legacy. I had a hard time stabilizing because I had no plan for primeval titan, but eventually I landed Ensnaring Bridge. This is where things went south. I was dredging Loam each turn, but I wasn't taking enough cards to attack with my Creeping Tar Pit. I would take 3 cards, play them, and pass the turn. I should have attacked with the Tar Pit, and then passed the turn with 0 cards in hand. I couldn't seal the deal fast enough, even though I would have killed him eventually, and he wouldn't concede the match to me. We ended up going to time and drawing.
0-0-1
Lesson Learned - Use Loam to help you play through your own Ensnaring Bridge.
Match 2
I got paired agains some mono Green deck. I got Ghost Quarter lock on him turn 2 with a Tabernacle turn 4, and he couldn't recover from that. Game 2 I side in Bobs for 2 Manabond, 1 Tutor and 1 Mox Diamond. I get on the Tar Pit plan and start laying beats as soon as possible. He doesn't come up with an answer, and I win the game.
1-0-1
Match 3
I get paired against UW Stoneblade. Game 1 I get beat down by Snapcasters and Stoneforeges. I didn't draw any mazes, tabernacles, or anything to interact with his creatures. My loam dredges were terriblle. I sided in 4 Bob, 1 Revoker, 1 Tower of the Magistrate, and 1 Cursed Totem for 2 Manabond, 1 Loam, 1 E Tutor, 1 Diamond, 1 Karakas, and 1 Other card. G2 I land Bob and he looks at it weird before letting it resolve. We play draw go for a bit, I land tower to counteract his batterskull, find a maze to deal with his guys, and then he lands Jace. This is where things go bad. He fateseals me, leaves it on top. I am at 2 life. I know the card will kill me. I untap, flip it, and die. Then I try to sac a land with Zuran Orb only to find out I can't do that because the trigger has to resolve. Oops. I probably would have won that one too. I also could have academy ruins a mox diamond on top, but didn't count my mana correct.
1-1-1
Lesson Learned: Make sure to count your mana correctly when you want to do something. Take your time and make sure to do it right. Also, if you are using Orb to survive a confidant hit, do it before you reveal since you cant do it after.
Overall, I am impressed with my performance with the deck. I fell I did well for only doing a few test games against affinity before playing. I need to tighten up my technical play, but I will definitely keep playing this deck.
Also, what is our game plan against Nic Fit? I saw two people playing it there, and it looks like a horrible matchup for us. Am I mistaken in this, or is this bad news bears for us?
Currently Playing
Standard: Esper Control | UWR Flash --- Modern: Melira Pod | Splinter Twin
Port is basically the only way we can win G1 against Enchantress, but if they keep a 2 lander and we get a Port on their Growthed land, they can't do anything and you can Stax them out before they get their engine going. Post-board it can be really bad since they have Wheel of Sun and Moon, Ground Seal, Sacred Ground, and tons of other terrible things.
Crop Rotation is generally too narrow. Our other tutors (Enlightened, Entomb, Intuition) are far more flexible and can really get any answer. Tolaria West is enough tutoring for Lands. While it's a very powerful effect, it can be played around (opponents don't fall for the surprise Glacial Chasm more than once) and is generally redundant, plus is dead when milled. It also dilutes the land count.
I also think it's a pretty hostile environment right now, but I've been having relatively good MUs against combo. Not positive, but recently I've been 3/3 and that's as good as Stoneblade in some scenarios. TES has terrible mana. ANT is also somewhat mana-vulnerable, and also has problems getting rid of multiple hatebears. Doomsday is the only Storm deck I have consistently lost to recently, and I went 1-2 against it at GP Indy only because he ripped one of those many Chants off the top and delayed me casting Canonist for a turn. The burn matchup, however, sucks unless you can stick a really fast COP. UR Delver can be even worse at times.
Thanks!
Yeah. This is very important in grindy matchups like BUG with Jace, as you can't break through a wall of Goyfs with Factory but need the Bridge to hold back their offense. It's also a good way to push damage through stubborn opponents who don't scoop when they should. Ob Nixilis sounds rough, damage we can't prevent is terrible. It's hilarious that you Quarter-Locked a mono green deck. I did it once to Merfolk. Took ages.
Yeah, just sounds like you need more experience. Were you not able to punch Jace with Bob once you had handled the Batterskull? Or did he have a clog of guys and you had no Tar Pit? Cursed Totem is generally bad against Stoneblade since we have a ton of more effective things. Snapcaster is triggered and we don't really care about Batterskull.
I beat it once, but only because of an inexperienced pilot. Mana Denial is basically useless since they have tons of basics and ways to ramp into them. They have Pulse and sometimes Vindicate to deal with our things, and Deed can be terrible for us. They also have Witness, Ooze, and Thrun. It can be really rough. The game plan, sad to say, is "hope they draw badly." You can win if they somehow get mana screwed and you can lock them early enough, and Bojuka Bog helps, but usually they just have the answers.
Lands WUBG
EDH:
Doran WBG
Yeah, that's the reason I've been running 2 Factories forever. RUG also tends to like doing Waste Maze -> Extract Maze against me, and it's really hard to beat RUG without Maze of Ith. I managed to resolve a Crucible one game and won at 2 life by continually fending off a 6/7 Goyf before I got the EE lock.
You know I'm not a huge fan of Intuition, so I think that's fine. I generally like having 2 Manabonds but you've got the extra tutors so I think 1 is fine.
Boarding in Bob vs. RUG can be really dangerous but it's gotta be the right play since they can attack Loam so aggressively.
Lands WUBG
EDH:
Doran WBG
I'm not actually sure Bob is right for that matchup, I was thinking that 2 O-Stones, a Tormod's Crypt, and Cop-Red would be better to board in. O-Stones are clunky, but they kill the goose, crypt stalls the goose for a bit, and cop-red is another way not to die to burn after the board is locked up.