What is a good hoser for someone running painter combo? stp? obv chalice at 1 or 2 is formidable, but they usually have outs to that...what do you think?
pithing needle, serenity, chalice, dampining matrix, and suppression field come to mind.
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Null Rod doesn't affect mox diamond I feel like I'm repeating myself here but YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT A PERMANENT PRODUCING MANA adding mana is basically a split second ability that can't be countered by anything else.
End of story: Null rod doesn't affect moxen
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pithing needle, serenity, chalice, dampining matrix, and suppression field come to mind.
well, considering many combo decks run bounce, needle is just a redundant chalice. serenity hoses mono white stacks, so i probably wouldnt play it. suppression field is the best option, but it really doesn't do much except make stone cost 5 to activate. at that point, disenchant is better.
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Null Rod doesn't affect mox diamond I feel like I'm repeating myself here but YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT A PERMANENT PRODUCING MANA adding mana is basically a split second ability that can't be countered by anything else.
Wow I misread the rulings on null rod although it makes sense since it has the word can't in there...I seriously thought moxen were unaffected by null rod but I guess I was wrong
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
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We know, we know. But almost no one owns ravages of war which is why it is $100 plus and in the end it really doesn't matter at all. Sure it helps to have a split but it really doesn't matter.
Maybe cut a plains for a wasteland? I know it hurts the flagstones synergy with armageddon and smokestack but wasteland is a really powerful card unless your meta is low in nonbasic lands
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Someone played meddling mage naming armageddon on me, last sunday, and it won them the tournament.
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T2: Solar Flare
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
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Blue Bell X Top 4
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You know, I always think Smokestack is the worst card in the deck. I am always afraid my Crucible is going to get blown up or something, and I'll be boned... There are a lot of time when I draw it and sigh with resignation. That never ever happens with Tangle Wire.
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Everything is true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true, false, and meaningless in some sense. Repeat this 666 times and you will reach enlightenment.
In some sense. The only good fnord is a dead fnord.
You know, I always think Smokestack is the worst card in the deck. I am always afraid my Crucible is going to get blown up or something, and I'll be boned... There are a lot of time when I draw it and sigh with resignation. That never ever happens with Tangle Wire.
Are you talking about a pox deck? coz I don't see a tangle wire on this deck.
Perhaps if you actually knew how to read, you would see the people discussing Tangle Wire in this very thread.
While his question might have been 'odd', your response was unwarranted. Consider this a verbal warning.
Alternatively, I could have phrased this as 'Perhaps if you actually knew how to read the forum rules, you would see that hostile remarks aren't allowed'. Doesn't sound pleasant, does it?
Everything is true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true, false, and meaningless in some sense. Repeat this 666 times and you will reach enlightenment.
In some sense. The only good fnord is a dead fnord.
This is essentially my build of the maindeck, with the exception that I run 4 'Geddon out of cost issues.
My sideboard right now is just based around going into unknown metas; I have most of the "normal" sideboard cards just-in-case for coming into a tournament, but right now I run
04 Powder Keg (Affinity, Dredge, occasional other matches)
04 Pithing Needle (general)
03 Defense Grid (control, some combo)
02 Ethersworn Canonist (combo)
01 Ghostly Prison
01 Oblivion Ring
Though I keep 4x of the following on hand if I feel the need to move things around:
Pithing Needle (The auto-in for me)
Powder Keg (It isn't the best sideboard card in any matchup, but it does plenty in a variety of archetypes)
Runed Halo (If I'm expecting a lot of low-threat decks)
Wheel of Sun and Moon (Dredge-heavy metagame)
CoP: Red (The "Goblins" side of the red options)
Ethersworn Canonist (Anti-combo)
Defense Grid (anti-control)
Karmic Justice (the anti-anti-Stax card)
Sphere of Law (The "Burn" side of the red options)
Suppression Field (It's just around; I haven't used it yet)
You know, I always think Smokestack is the worst card in the deck. I am always afraid my Crucible is going to get blown up or something, and I'll be boned... There are a lot of time when I draw it and sigh with resignation. That never ever happens with Tangle Wire.
It never happens because one has an immediate impact on the game, while the other has a more lasting impact on the game. I think the difference is really what you're looking for, though. Tangle Wire gives you time to do things at virtually no cost to the Stax deck, so that you can draw into the things that have a more lasting impression on the game. Smokestack, alternatively, works oppositely, in that it doesn't have that same effect on the game when you first play it, but in the entire course of the card, you'll be using it's effect to a much more permanent extent.
I can see a Stax deck that could use Tangle Wire effectively, but to me it's like Toils of Night and Day vs. Terminate: one is more suited to a tempo game while another is more suited to a non-tempo game. The Toils will give you that immediate impact and give you a boost in temporary tempo, but the Terminate will give the game a more permanent impact. Stax is a deck that is built to increment on permanent advantage rather than accept temporary advantage.
Quick question say i have all the cards to build a mono white stax except mox diamonds what could i used to fill that gap until i get them? Would lotus petals work as a temporary fix?
Petals would work for the part where they accelerate the early-game Trinisphere and Chalice, but they don't help at all in helping Armageddon recovery and allowing Magus to survive an Armageddon.
If you're not running 4 City of Traitors or Ancient Tomb, I'd bump those up first. I would almost have to say that you should replace them with Plains, as well as bumping up any of the lands you don't go to 4x with up to 4x. I'm thinking about the situation and having Petal in, and it doesn't seem terrible, but at the same time I'm thinking of all these situations where it just won't do. (paying 3 under a Trinisphere seems bad, for one)
thanks for the tip. I do have ancient tombs and city of traitors, so I figure my next big purchase will be diamonds until then I'll just use plains. Any thoughts on humility+caltrops maybe as an alternative to ghostly prison or moat in a dutch stax build? Moat is a little out of my price range.
I haven't played against or playtested Dutch Stax, (I don't know of a source of borrow-able Moats around here) so I'm not fully aware of the intricacies of it vs. 'Geddon Stax, but the thing that strikes me with Humility + Caltrops is that 1/2 the combo doesn't really have much of an effect on the game in itself, which is unlike most of the deck. Both Humility and Moat individually contribute to the Stax idea of slowing and stalling the game, and combined produce a near-hard lock on creatures. I can only think of a couple decks where Caltrops has the same effectiveness individually, without the use of Humility.
I guess I just see the opponent ignoring Caltrops; unless they're running Empty the Warrens, the most I see it doing in Legacy is showing up a turn-1 Goblin Lackey. I'd see most of the time, the opponent will just not bother with it and save removal for the other part of the combo which would affect them with or without the Caltrops in play.
I haven't played against or playtested Dutch Stax, (I don't know of a source of borrow-able Moats around here) so I'm not fully aware of the intricacies of it vs. 'Geddon Stax, but the thing that strikes me with Humility + Caltrops is that 1/2 the combo doesn't really have much of an effect on the game in itself, which is unlike most of the deck. Both Humility and Moat individually contribute to the Stax idea of slowing and stalling the game, and combined produce a near-hard lock on creatures. I can only think of a couple decks where Caltrops has the same effectiveness individually, without the use of Humility.
I guess I just see the opponent ignoring Caltrops; unless they're running Empty the Warrens, the most I see it doing in Legacy is showing up a turn-1 Goblin Lackey. I'd see most of the time, the opponent will just not bother with it and save removal for the other part of the combo which would affect them with or without the Caltrops in play.
Dutch Stax? What is Dutch Stax? Did I miss something?
Dutch Stax? What is Dutch Stax? Did I miss something?
Dutch Stax is just the variant of this deck that focuses on Humility + Moat.
@Konig: I don't see Dutch Stax as an inferior build to Armageddon Stax; if anything, I see it as a stronger build, as it contains additional locks; only combo can (reasonably) win with both on the board, while Humility creates an army of 1/1s facing against your 2/2 Factories, and Elspeth makes the game just silly.
It's essentially the same as Armageddon Stax, just with Ghostly Prison and Magus becoming Humility/Moat and the card counts shifting slightly. You need more Plains to reasonably support going to 10+ WW spells, but other than that it's really just Stax.
Are there any other strong sideboard options to consider? I've been messing around with the deck in workstation and have quickly fell in love with it (so much so that I think I'm going to start amassing the cards to build it).
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Are there any other strong sideboard options to consider? I've been messing around with the deck in workstation and have quickly fell in love with it (so much so that I think I'm going to start amassing the cards to build it).
Most of the common sideboard options are listed in the primer in the OP. Unless you have other situations that need something else to solve a problem.
Although I really feel like I should update it. I haven't played Stax lately in Legacy since I've been messing around with a lot of other decks plus getting hooked on EDH.
Been wanting to get into Legacy and I saw a Monowhite Stax deck and I really liked it. Just curious would fitting in Exploration in the deck help it at all. Figured it would accelerate you and allow multiple uses of Wasteland. Also adding green would let you add Crop Rotation. These might be stupid ideas just something that poped in my head while looking over some lists.
I think exploration is meh, it might be good, but I also hate the idea of splashing in general because when you play smokestack there's a good chance you'll sack some lands to it which is why splashing worries me because we don't want an unstable manabase.
And crop rotation really isn't that good because once you land smokestack you want to be gaining a permanent every turn which crop rotation does not do. And exploration is just a terrible topdeck unless you have a crucible out and a wasteland to absolutely slaughter your opponents manabase if they have a lot of nonbasics out there
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pithing needle, serenity, chalice, dampining matrix, and suppression field come to mind.
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End of story: Null rod doesn't affect moxen
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well, considering many combo decks run bounce, needle is just a redundant chalice. serenity hoses mono white stacks, so i probably wouldnt play it. suppression field is the best option, but it really doesn't do much except make stone cost 5 to activate. at that point, disenchant is better.
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you're wrong.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=4437
there is still activation cost for mana ability which is the tap symbol.
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4 smokestack
3 oblivion ring
4 armageddon
4 mox diamond
3 ghostly prison
4 crucible of worlds
4 chalice of the void
2 elspeth, knight-errant
5 plains
3 wasteland
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 mishra's factory
4 flagstone of trokair
4 glowrider
3 powder keg
1 oblivion ring
1 ghostly prison
3 pithing needle
3 ethersworn canonist
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NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
I don't own Ravages, but I'm sure I can find 2. So:
4 smokestack
3 oblivion ring
2 armageddon
4 mox diamond
3 ghostly prison
2 ravages of war
4 crucible of worlds
4 chalice of the void
2 elspeth, knight-errant
5 plains
3 wasteland
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 mishra's factory
4 flagstone of trokair
4 glowrider
3 powder keg
1 oblivion ring
1 ghostly prison
3 pithing needle
3 ethersworn canonist
We know, we know. But almost no one owns ravages of war which is why it is $100 plus and in the end it really doesn't matter at all. Sure it helps to have a split but it really doesn't matter.
Maybe cut a plains for a wasteland? I know it hurts the flagstones synergy with armageddon and smokestack but wasteland is a really powerful card unless your meta is low in nonbasic lands
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NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
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NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
In some sense. The only good fnord is a dead fnord.
Are you talking about a pox deck? coz I don't see a tangle wire on this deck.
While his question might have been 'odd', your response was unwarranted. Consider this a verbal warning.
Alternatively, I could have phrased this as 'Perhaps if you actually knew how to read the forum rules, you would see that hostile remarks aren't allowed'. Doesn't sound pleasant, does it?
-C_c
In some sense. The only good fnord is a dead fnord.
This is essentially my build of the maindeck, with the exception that I run 4 'Geddon out of cost issues.
My sideboard right now is just based around going into unknown metas; I have most of the "normal" sideboard cards just-in-case for coming into a tournament, but right now I run
04 Powder Keg (Affinity, Dredge, occasional other matches)
04 Pithing Needle (general)
03 Defense Grid (control, some combo)
02 Ethersworn Canonist (combo)
01 Ghostly Prison
01 Oblivion Ring
Though I keep 4x of the following on hand if I feel the need to move things around:
Pithing Needle (The auto-in for me)
Powder Keg (It isn't the best sideboard card in any matchup, but it does plenty in a variety of archetypes)
Runed Halo (If I'm expecting a lot of low-threat decks)
Wheel of Sun and Moon (Dredge-heavy metagame)
CoP: Red (The "Goblins" side of the red options)
Ethersworn Canonist (Anti-combo)
Defense Grid (anti-control)
Karmic Justice (the anti-anti-Stax card)
Sphere of Law (The "Burn" side of the red options)
Suppression Field (It's just around; I haven't used it yet)
It never happens because one has an immediate impact on the game, while the other has a more lasting impact on the game. I think the difference is really what you're looking for, though. Tangle Wire gives you time to do things at virtually no cost to the Stax deck, so that you can draw into the things that have a more lasting impression on the game. Smokestack, alternatively, works oppositely, in that it doesn't have that same effect on the game when you first play it, but in the entire course of the card, you'll be using it's effect to a much more permanent extent.
I can see a Stax deck that could use Tangle Wire effectively, but to me it's like Toils of Night and Day vs. Terminate: one is more suited to a tempo game while another is more suited to a non-tempo game. The Toils will give you that immediate impact and give you a boost in temporary tempo, but the Terminate will give the game a more permanent impact. Stax is a deck that is built to increment on permanent advantage rather than accept temporary advantage.
静
If you're not running 4 City of Traitors or Ancient Tomb, I'd bump those up first. I would almost have to say that you should replace them with Plains, as well as bumping up any of the lands you don't go to 4x with up to 4x. I'm thinking about the situation and having Petal in, and it doesn't seem terrible, but at the same time I'm thinking of all these situations where it just won't do. (paying 3 under a Trinisphere seems bad, for one)
静
I guess I just see the opponent ignoring Caltrops; unless they're running Empty the Warrens, the most I see it doing in Legacy is showing up a turn-1 Goblin Lackey. I'd see most of the time, the opponent will just not bother with it and save removal for the other part of the combo which would affect them with or without the Caltrops in play.
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Dutch Stax? What is Dutch Stax? Did I miss something?
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Dutch Stax is just the variant of this deck that focuses on Humility + Moat.
@Konig: I don't see Dutch Stax as an inferior build to Armageddon Stax; if anything, I see it as a stronger build, as it contains additional locks; only combo can (reasonably) win with both on the board, while Humility creates an army of 1/1s facing against your 2/2 Factories, and Elspeth makes the game just silly.
Here's an example of a decklist:
04 Ancient Tomb
03 Wasteland
04 City of Traitors
04 Flagstones of Trokair
08 Plains
04 Moat
04 Mox Diamond
03 Humility
03 Oblivion Ring
04 Chalice of the Void
03 Trinisphere
04 Crucible of Worlds
03 Armageddon
04 Smokestack
It's essentially the same as Armageddon Stax, just with Ghostly Prison and Magus becoming Humility/Moat and the card counts shifting slightly. You need more Plains to reasonably support going to 10+ WW spells, but other than that it's really just Stax.
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Oh... so its like... 'Bad Stax'... That doesn't seem very good at all unless your meta is like 90% aggro.
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Most of the common sideboard options are listed in the primer in the OP. Unless you have other situations that need something else to solve a problem.
Although I really feel like I should update it. I haven't played Stax lately in Legacy since I've been messing around with a lot of other decks plus getting hooked on EDH.
And crop rotation really isn't that good because once you land smokestack you want to be gaining a permanent every turn which crop rotation does not do. And exploration is just a terrible topdeck unless you have a crucible out and a wasteland to absolutely slaughter your opponents manabase if they have a lot of nonbasics out there
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