This answer is quite simple. It is one of the most consistently best decks in the format. It has answers to every type of deck, and because of the core choices, usually gets them. The downside to this, a lot of the core cards are expensive. However, if you’re looking for a deck that will consistently win in any type of meta, this should be your choice.
The Core.
All Thresh decks will play with a core set of cards, which plant it in the Blue/Green category. However, you can splash any of the other 3 colors in Tempo Thresh and still come out successful. The most common color is Red, with White being the second, and Black the least color used.
The core set of cards are what gives the deck tempo, and are rarely untouched. The deck generates card advantage through the loss of tempo you create for your opponent. The hardest part of playing this deck is knowing when to do what. When to play a creature or leave mana open. When to use Wasteland. What cards to counter. This all comes with experience, so this is not a deck to just pick up and play on a whim.
It will require testing. However, when you figure these nuances out, this deck is very hard to lose with.
Card choices.
As previously mentioned, let me start with the core.
Tarmogoyf The creature of choice in Legacy, and one of the 2 reasons why this decks core has Green in it. This card creates tempo all by himself. He is mainly used as a blocker to keep the opponent at bay and generate tempo, however, he can easily switch to offense just by turning him sideways. Hard to beat a win condition for 2 mana.
Nimble Mongoose The other reason the core of the deck is Green, and the only reason the deck has Threshold in the title. This little guy usually avoids all of your opponents removal, bar and early Engineered Plague or Volcanic Fallout. He will win you most of your games, as he’ll be able to attack through Goblins, Merfolk, Zombie tokens, and man lands. Not too mention blanking opponents removal. Have I stated how important that is, and all for 1 mana, which is pretty easy to sneak under Legacy’s counter magic, unless they feel like using a Force of Will on him.
Brainstorm Anyone who has played in Legacy knows the advantages of this card, but for those who haven’t, let me point them out for you. This card will dig deep for answers. It will protect cards you want protected against hand disruption, and paired with Fetch lands, will put chafe from your hand back into your deck. For 1 mana, you can’t beat that. There’s a reason it’s Restricted in Vintage.
Ponder I could just copy everything I said about Brainstorm into here, but it’s not quite the same. This card, while good, is not as good as Brainstorm. Being Sorcery speed puts it just under Brainstorm. However, it is a perfect complement to its brother, being able to shuffle your deck without a fetch land. Again, for 1 mana, and restricted in Vintage, I feel lucky being able to play 4 of both these cards.
Force of Will Arguably the backbone of Legacy, and the reason why Blue is so good in this format. Any deck that plays Blue, plays with this card, and this deck is no different. The option to be able to use counter magic while tapped out will always keep your opponent guessing. As soon as they see an Island, they have to guess whether or not they’ll be able to resolve anything key against you.
Daze The little brother to Force of Will. This card can generate so much tempo, it’s actually ridiculous, seeing as almost all the core cards in this deck cost 1 mana, being able to play them and still counter something, while not having to waste a Fow is just incredible. Another reason Blue does so well in this format.
Spell Snare This little gem came from Ravnica block, and I’m very thankful it did. It will counter a lot problem cards in the format, only costing 1 mana, pairs perfectly with Daze. Being able to lay a Mongoose, then counter an opponent’s card, then lay your land, and counter they’re 2 drop, not many people will be able to stop Mongoose after that. It also helps that a lot of cards in the format cost 2.
Stifle The reason Dreadstill was so good was because it played 4 of these because it combed well with Phyrexian Dreadnought. Well, this deck doesn’t play that giant creature, but takes full advantage of what this card does in the format. Land destruction on Fetch lands is so good in this format, you can almost win a game by using Stifle on an opponent’s Fetch land turn 1 or 2, almost locking them out of the game. Also being able to stop a lot of the formats other problem cards is just too good to pass up. Oh ya, if you haven’t noticed, it costs 1 mana.
Wasteland This is one of the main differences between CounterTop Thresh, and Tempo Thresh. This is arguably the best land in the format, and the mana denial it creates, while paired with Stifle, is sometimes just too much for opponents to handle. Oh ya, it kills man lands as well.
Well, now that we have the core established, let me point out something. You should always be running 4 of these cards. There really is no question about it. However, I will go over some other card choices, and some additions before I dive into the colors.
Vendilion Clique This is one of the best creatures in Legacy. For 3 mana, you get 3 power on a Flying creature, while also incorporating instant speed hand disruption. Again, all for 3 mana, how can you not like it. I personally run and love this guy, but being Legendary puts a hamper on how many you should run. 2-3 is usually the right number.
Trygon Predator This guy answers a lot of cards if left unchecked. Umezawa’s Jitte, Affinity, Counterbalance, Aether Vial, Standstill, not to mention a flying beater for 3. This deck is all about answers and low cost threats, and he fits the bill perfectly. He is sometime relegated to the SB though, as not every deck will play something that he can destroy.
Rushing River Bounce, one of the easiest effects to create tempo against an opponent. Being able to bounce 2 non-land permanents for 3 mana and the cost of a land (preferably one that you tapped to play this) is outstanding, and can either halt an offense, or get yours through.
Wipe Away Bounce is good. Being able to bounce anything is better. Being able to bounce anything and not have your opponent respond (unless with mana abilities of course) is great. Aether Vial being a prime target for this card, it just answers anything you need for a turn, which is sometimes all you need.
Wearbear Now, this guy used to be the main beater/defender in this deck, until Tarmagoyf made it through Wizards. Some people still use him, and a 4/4 for 2 with no drawback is still good, however, Goyf is usually a 4/5, for the same cost with no drawback, so he usually gets outclassed. Great budget option though.
Lorescale Coatl This card has garnered some interest in a lot of Legacy circles because of his interaction with Brainstorm. For 3 mana, a creature that will grow bigger every turn, and can be pumped bigger at instant speed with some of your own cards is very good. However, being easily hit with removal and not having evasion, brings the question up, is he better in this deck than Goyf. The answer is no, but he can be a great finisher if you decide to go that route.
Submerge This card has been increasing in popularity due to Zoo becoming such a force in the current meta. Being able to stunt your opponents draw and tempo, for free, is too good to pass up.
Hydroblast & Blue Elemental Blast This card helps against Burn, Goblins, anything Red really. Normally people would run Chill, and you can, but the most splashed color for Tempo Thresh is Red, so that makes this the number 1 option.
Spell Pierce Another good SB card. This one helps against any type of Combo or control decks.
Tormod’s Crypt & Relic of Progenitus We all know you need to have some form of Graveyard hate in the current Legacy meta, and these 2 are usually the best choices. Crypt is better for use because we run Tarmagoyf, and having a small Goyf is not very good. However, I generally do run a split in case of Pithing Needle.
Pithing Needle This card helps stop cards that we may not be able to deal with all the time. However, with Stifle MD, this becomes less of an issue. A good way to stop Top, but Grip is better.
Engineered Explosives Great at stopping Zoo or other aggro decks. Not so good against the rest of the field.
Well, with the other card choices out of the way, it’s time we go into the splash colors.
Red
Lightning Bolt The iconic burn spell, and one of the best removal cards you can have for 1 mana. It kills small dudes, wins Goyf wars, and can even be aimed at your opponent. If you play UGr Tempo Thresh, or “Canadian Thresh” you should be running 4 of these.
Fire/Ice Another great reason to splash Red. Killing multiple dudes, stalling your opponent, or opening up the gates for an attack and drawing a card, there are just so many applications for this it’s ridiculous.
Pyroblast & Red Elemental Blast These are SB cards, however very good ones. They help win counter wars, help destroy Counterbalance and can blow up Merfolk. It’s a pretty decent SB card, but will depend on your meta if you want to run it.
Ancient Grudge This card is great if you expect Stax or Affinity. Krosan Grip is still just a better overall option though.
Pyroclasm or Volcanic Fallout A good sweeper, good against Goblins and Elves. Normally Fallout is used against Merfolk. Both of these cards are meta dependent though.
Firespout Another good sweeper for Red. Can also be used to rid the board of fliers and keep all your dudes alive. Very good for an aggro infested meta.
White
Swords to Plowshares You all knew this card was coming as soon as you saw the color title. Yes, StP is the best removal in the format, and the main reason to splash White over Red in Tresh. It will stop any heavily played threat in the format, and stop them for good. The life gain doesn’t really bother this deck as it can play in the long game as well as the short.
Qasali Pridemage Another great reason to splash White, and simply better than Trygon.
Oblivion Ring Another great answer all card, and becoming increasingly good against Dark Depths decks.
Rhox War Monk This card is great against any of the aggro decks or burn decks out there. He’s hard to kill, and Lifelink makes him a number 1 threat right beside Goyf. Usually relegated to the SB.
Black
Dark Confidant Easily the best reason the splash Black. Continuous card draw is always good, and the fact that we don’t usually play anything over CMC 3 is just another good reason to play him.
Maelstrom Pulse Another answer all card, unfortunately this is the only one Black has. Pernicious Deed could be run in its place, but you have to be careful about your Mongoose, you never want them to hit the yard.
Smother Very good spot removal in the current format, and fairly close to the caliber of Bolt and StP.
Thoughtseize A very unorthodox card choice, but one people use anyways. Very good against any slower deck paired with your counter magic suit. Not so good against the faster aggro decks.
Putrefy Again, good spot removal, a little more narrow than Pulse, but Instant speed can sometimes make the difference.
Extripate The other main reason to run Black, except this one comes from the SB. Good against a lot of decks, especially other control decks.
Engineered Plague Good against anything tribal. Not much to say about this one.
Diabolic Edict Good against Aggro decks or decks such as Reanimator and Natural Order.
Well, I could put more options, but these are the main ones. This is Legacy were talking about, there are a lot more options out there, it all depends on what you’re willing to try.
Lands
Generally speaking, it all depends on what color your splashing and personal preference. Some people prefer to use basics, while others do not. I will give you my land base for a UGr Tempo Thresh deck. The dual lands can be interchanged depending on the color your splashing.
Just for the record, a vast majority of tempo thresh lists that T8 go by Caplin's UGr build, and it seems silly not to mention it in a primer about the deck:
And almost no manabases run basics. This has been debated forever but it's just not needed and weakens the overall deck to fit them in.
Good job on the rest, I like the card-by-card analysis.
EDIT: also, it should be noted that this deck is weak against an underdeveloped metagame. if your opponents love their WW decks and whatnot, this deck will be underpowered. Basically, it preys on duals, fetches, and weak manabases.
rsaunder has beautiful eyes. Think of a sunset, sunrise, and cool breeze at the beach rolled into one moment. Now make that moment blue...because those are his eyes
Thanks for the primer. I just recently decided to put Canadian Thresh Together (now I just need 2 Goyfs, 3 Volcanic Islands, and 4 Wastelands to be complete). Will be borrowing the cards I need (except Wastelands, which will be replaced with Islands) to play in my local Legacy tourney with it tonite for the first time. Getting through the first round will most likely be the most difficult, because it is an underdeveloped meta. But, once I get past the first round, it'll get a little easier since the better decks rise to the top, ha. We'll see how I do.
Wow this deck looks rediculously fun. I have heard of this deck but I havnt checked out decklists for it yet. Time for me to make some proxies
Oh this might be a dumb question but how does this deck compare with countertop thresh? That seems to be the biggest difference.
The biggest difference is those 7-8 cards.
Being able to Tempo your opponent instead of setting up a CounterTop soft lock. CounterTop doesn't use cards such as Wasteland or Spell Snare, which I find are more important then Top or Counterbalance in a lot more matches in the current meta
And Top has fallen a lot from when it was first introduced. Legacy has answers for it now.
Plus I love Canadian Thresh, it's a lot of fun to play even in a developed meta.
In countertop thresh you can dig in for the long game and generally have inevitability if you can establish a CB/Top lock, however, this can be fought out of and smart people come prepared to do so. In a long game, it looks bad for tempo thresh. You'll run out of cards, and you don't have enough creatures to play the game of attrition.
Tempo thresh is a fantastic deck, but it's designed to prey on developed metagames. If people are going to come to tournie with good cards and good decks, thresh will stomp them. Stifle + Wasteland are much weaker versus random jank.dec though.
CB/Top has some better game against random stuff if it's tuned to a legacy metagame, but counterbalance is as much a crutch for the deck as it is a weapon - removing other control cards for it means if you can't match curves with somebody, the "control" part of your deck will fly out the window. Also, by running 3-4 CB and 3-4 tops usually and no wastelands, you have a much harder time reaching threshold, so you have to drop the goose and look for answers in U/G/W/x - Rhox War Monk is perfect for that slot.
Fundamentally, Tempo Thresh is in a better position to control the early game and push its advantage to a quick win than CB/Top. They win in similar ways (your opp. can't do anything to stop the onslaught of undercosted stuff), it's whether you want to win in an aggressive or defensive way that determines the deck. Tempo thresh is probably the better deck nowadays, CB/Top is aggravating but not the end of the world, and probably not as good as spell snare + stuff in that slot for disruption.
The reason thrash is so good right now is the red splash. Bolt and fire//ice give the deck the reach it needs against control and aggro.
Countertop doesn't have this. Simple as that.
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rsaunder has beautiful eyes. Think of a sunset, sunrise, and cool breeze at the beach rolled into one moment. Now make that moment blue...because those are his eyes
Hey guys. Glad to finally see a Temp Thresh thread here on MTGSalvation. I'm quite new to this deck, as I had just built it. But I was thinking of going the 1 Clique/1 River route for my decklist and perhaps a singleton Island to save myself from potential wastelands (seeing as it is a popular choice among decks in legacy). Perhaps, going 7 Fetches/1 Basic/3 Volcanic/4 Tropical/4 Wasteland and then dropping 1 Spell Snare.
I also was curious to know about the matchups (detailed match analysis with sideboarding options) against this deck? How does it do against Loam, Stax, Landstill, TES, Pox, Mirror, Dredge, and Fish?
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Don't get me wrong, playing Dredge is one of my guilty pleasures, along with eating chunky monkey ice cream and watching my Gilmore Girls DVDs in my underpants, but it's pretty much, in my opinion, the very last deck that I'd want anyone to start a career in Vintage with.
Who would ever play mogg fanatic in a canadian thresh deck? Achieving threshold with this deck is easy usually with fetchlands, wastelands, brainstorm, the counter suite...and when you're playing with mogg fanatic wouldn't you rather have it be a lightning bolt or fire//ice? Seems wasted unless your whole meta is ichorid. At which point you should be playing a prison deck like staxxx to curbstomp it with g. prison's and tabernacles.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Well, not much of a real test last nite... Ended up getting paired against 2 janky Standard decks... a Monoblack Vamp Aggro deck, and White Angels deck... in the first two rounds... Went 2-1 and 2-0. Vamps won one game because he was able to just lay a lot of creatures, more than I could counter. He also got a Haunting Echos off that game and took a lot of stuff... didn't matter much though, he was about to win.
Last round, I got paired down and played against Elves, which can go combo or aggro. I took Game 2 and Game 3. Pyroclasm helped out in both of those games. So, that was the only real test... also would have gone better if I had had my Wastelands (which are on the way). Instead I had Islands in those slots...
Oh, I did play 2 casual games against a Monoblack Pox deck. I think I held up fairly well, went 1-1 without sideboards.
well as far as tempo thresh is concerned im new to the name.. i saw several of these decks on deckcheck.net from asian tournys that all t8.. sickening
but they all look like they have the heart of my favorite deck for about 3 years now and thats SUPERGROW. was that considered TT?? just curious but ya the goyf is much better than the quiron dryad for immediate board power although i still like land grant because i dont run but 6 mana lands 4 fetch 2 wastelands...
I think its mostly because PTE is kind of counteractive in this deck, you're trying to use stifle and wastelands to wreck fragile manabases. PTE can potentialy fix what you just used your wasteland to disrupt.
On the other hand, I can kinda see siding in PTE against monocolor decks being a viable option, but I'm not sure its worth the sideboard slot. It still accelerates them.
The only times I can see Path being the better choice than Swords is when you're playing against a deck that has all non-basic lands. And there's really a fairly good number of decks, even top tier decks, that run at least a couple basics along side their duals. I think it also tends to be easier to overcome that lifegain you gave your opponent then for you to overcome giving them an extra land. It might be that extra land they needed to keep you from Dazing their win con.
The new rules did not remove Bridge's second ability.
Why would you play a card just to beat Dredge and be worse than the other creatures or spells you could run in its place during other matchups? The only reason would be if your metagame is infested with Dredge and you want a chance to win game one. Most people don't have a metagame full of Dredge, so I think people are justified in saying Mogg Fanatic is a poor choice.
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MTG Rules Advisor
I currently play only two formats, what I play in them is:
Legacy: Domain Zoo, RGW Zoo, Merfolk, Solidarity, Mono Black Aggro
EDH: Kagemaro, First to Suffer
ok, so I don't think 14 lands will suffice at all for this deck.
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Don't get me wrong, playing Dredge is one of my guilty pleasures, along with eating chunky monkey ice cream and watching my Gilmore Girls DVDs in my underpants, but it's pretty much, in my opinion, the very last deck that I'd want anyone to start a career in Vintage with.
original grow ran 10-12 with the 4 landgrant.. and if im playing a control deck id rather them use a counter on my grant vs stifling my fetch. but i have no problom running this build although i have ran 18 by pulling out the 4grant...
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LEGACY PLAYER- SPIKE
trying to move into standard because more players in my area are moving that way
For black splash, has anyone ever used Unearth? I mean it hits every creature thresh runs, and can let you reuse Clique for B. If you don't need it at the moment you could always cycle it. Seems like running 2-3 wouldn't be a bad choice, except for the deck is already extremely tight. Anyone have any experience with it?
Unearth seems bad in a deck that runs <12 creatures and usually we don't want our dudes to hit the GY. And it can be a very dead draw sure it cycles but we don't have 2 mana available all the time.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
so why doesnt tempo thresh run WINTERORB , LAND GRANT, ORIM'S CHANT , OR STANDSTILL ? :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
Land Grant seems meh, especialy if you end up drawing too much land with it. I mean it could work, but I don't see it being necessary.
Winter Orb really shines when you use artifact mana like Mox Diamond and Chrome Mox, which tempo thresh doesn't run. It'd just slow us down too much.
UGr Tempo Thresh seems to do better overall than the UGw version, but if you're running UGw I could see Orim's Chant being useful.
Standstill just doesn't work here. If you're running Standstill you need Aether Vial, Manlands, and other ways to play around it without triggering it for your opponent. Tempo Thresh doesn't have that.
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Why play Tempo Thresh?
This answer is quite simple. It is one of the most consistently best decks in the format. It has answers to every type of deck, and because of the core choices, usually gets them. The downside to this, a lot of the core cards are expensive. However, if you’re looking for a deck that will consistently win in any type of meta, this should be your choice.
The Core.
All Thresh decks will play with a core set of cards, which plant it in the Blue/Green category. However, you can splash any of the other 3 colors in Tempo Thresh and still come out successful. The most common color is Red, with White being the second, and Black the least color used.
The core set of cards are what gives the deck tempo, and are rarely untouched. The deck generates card advantage through the loss of tempo you create for your opponent. The hardest part of playing this deck is knowing when to do what. When to play a creature or leave mana open. When to use Wasteland. What cards to counter. This all comes with experience, so this is not a deck to just pick up and play on a whim.
It will require testing. However, when you figure these nuances out, this deck is very hard to lose with.
Card choices.
As previously mentioned, let me start with the core.
Tarmogoyf
The creature of choice in Legacy, and one of the 2 reasons why this decks core has Green in it. This card creates tempo all by himself. He is mainly used as a blocker to keep the opponent at bay and generate tempo, however, he can easily switch to offense just by turning him sideways. Hard to beat a win condition for 2 mana.
Nimble Mongoose
The other reason the core of the deck is Green, and the only reason the deck has Threshold in the title. This little guy usually avoids all of your opponents removal, bar and early Engineered Plague or Volcanic Fallout. He will win you most of your games, as he’ll be able to attack through Goblins, Merfolk, Zombie tokens, and man lands. Not too mention blanking opponents removal. Have I stated how important that is, and all for 1 mana, which is pretty easy to sneak under Legacy’s counter magic, unless they feel like using a Force of Will on him.
Brainstorm
Anyone who has played in Legacy knows the advantages of this card, but for those who haven’t, let me point them out for you. This card will dig deep for answers. It will protect cards you want protected against hand disruption, and paired with Fetch lands, will put chafe from your hand back into your deck. For 1 mana, you can’t beat that. There’s a reason it’s Restricted in Vintage.
Ponder
I could just copy everything I said about Brainstorm into here, but it’s not quite the same. This card, while good, is not as good as Brainstorm. Being Sorcery speed puts it just under Brainstorm. However, it is a perfect complement to its brother, being able to shuffle your deck without a fetch land. Again, for 1 mana, and restricted in Vintage, I feel lucky being able to play 4 of both these cards.
Force of Will
Arguably the backbone of Legacy, and the reason why Blue is so good in this format. Any deck that plays Blue, plays with this card, and this deck is no different. The option to be able to use counter magic while tapped out will always keep your opponent guessing. As soon as they see an Island, they have to guess whether or not they’ll be able to resolve anything key against you.
Daze
The little brother to Force of Will. This card can generate so much tempo, it’s actually ridiculous, seeing as almost all the core cards in this deck cost 1 mana, being able to play them and still counter something, while not having to waste a Fow is just incredible. Another reason Blue does so well in this format.
Spell Snare
This little gem came from Ravnica block, and I’m very thankful it did. It will counter a lot problem cards in the format, only costing 1 mana, pairs perfectly with Daze. Being able to lay a Mongoose, then counter an opponent’s card, then lay your land, and counter they’re 2 drop, not many people will be able to stop Mongoose after that. It also helps that a lot of cards in the format cost 2.
Stifle
The reason Dreadstill was so good was because it played 4 of these because it combed well with Phyrexian Dreadnought. Well, this deck doesn’t play that giant creature, but takes full advantage of what this card does in the format. Land destruction on Fetch lands is so good in this format, you can almost win a game by using Stifle on an opponent’s Fetch land turn 1 or 2, almost locking them out of the game. Also being able to stop a lot of the formats other problem cards is just too good to pass up. Oh ya, if you haven’t noticed, it costs 1 mana.
Wasteland
This is one of the main differences between CounterTop Thresh, and Tempo Thresh. This is arguably the best land in the format, and the mana denial it creates, while paired with Stifle, is sometimes just too much for opponents to handle. Oh ya, it kills man lands as well.
Well, now that we have the core established, let me point out something. You should always be running 4 of these cards. There really is no question about it. However, I will go over some other card choices, and some additions before I dive into the colors.
Vendilion Clique
This is one of the best creatures in Legacy. For 3 mana, you get 3 power on a Flying creature, while also incorporating instant speed hand disruption. Again, all for 3 mana, how can you not like it. I personally run and love this guy, but being Legendary puts a hamper on how many you should run. 2-3 is usually the right number.
Trygon Predator
This guy answers a lot of cards if left unchecked. Umezawa’s Jitte, Affinity, Counterbalance, Aether Vial, Standstill, not to mention a flying beater for 3. This deck is all about answers and low cost threats, and he fits the bill perfectly. He is sometime relegated to the SB though, as not every deck will play something that he can destroy.
Rushing River
Bounce, one of the easiest effects to create tempo against an opponent. Being able to bounce 2 non-land permanents for 3 mana and the cost of a land (preferably one that you tapped to play this) is outstanding, and can either halt an offense, or get yours through.
Wipe Away
Bounce is good. Being able to bounce anything is better. Being able to bounce anything and not have your opponent respond (unless with mana abilities of course) is great. Aether Vial being a prime target for this card, it just answers anything you need for a turn, which is sometimes all you need.
Wearbear
Now, this guy used to be the main beater/defender in this deck, until Tarmagoyf made it through Wizards. Some people still use him, and a 4/4 for 2 with no drawback is still good, however, Goyf is usually a 4/5, for the same cost with no drawback, so he usually gets outclassed. Great budget option though.
Lorescale Coatl
This card has garnered some interest in a lot of Legacy circles because of his interaction with Brainstorm. For 3 mana, a creature that will grow bigger every turn, and can be pumped bigger at instant speed with some of your own cards is very good. However, being easily hit with removal and not having evasion, brings the question up, is he better in this deck than Goyf. The answer is no, but he can be a great finisher if you decide to go that route.
Krosan Grip
The best card to destroy Sensei’s Divining Top. Also helps against a plethora of other decks. Just a great SB card.
Submerge
This card has been increasing in popularity due to Zoo becoming such a force in the current meta. Being able to stunt your opponents draw and tempo, for free, is too good to pass up.
Hydroblast & Blue Elemental Blast
This card helps against Burn, Goblins, anything Red really. Normally people would run Chill, and you can, but the most splashed color for Tempo Thresh is Red, so that makes this the number 1 option.
Spell Pierce
Another good SB card. This one helps against any type of Combo or control decks.
Tormod’s Crypt & Relic of Progenitus
We all know you need to have some form of Graveyard hate in the current Legacy meta, and these 2 are usually the best choices. Crypt is better for use because we run Tarmagoyf, and having a small Goyf is not very good. However, I generally do run a split in case of Pithing Needle.
Pithing Needle
This card helps stop cards that we may not be able to deal with all the time. However, with Stifle MD, this becomes less of an issue. A good way to stop Top, but Grip is better.
Engineered Explosives
Great at stopping Zoo or other aggro decks. Not so good against the rest of the field.
Well, with the other card choices out of the way, it’s time we go into the splash colors.
Red
Lightning Bolt
The iconic burn spell, and one of the best removal cards you can have for 1 mana. It kills small dudes, wins Goyf wars, and can even be aimed at your opponent. If you play UGr Tempo Thresh, or “Canadian Thresh” you should be running 4 of these.
Fire/Ice
Another great reason to splash Red. Killing multiple dudes, stalling your opponent, or opening up the gates for an attack and drawing a card, there are just so many applications for this it’s ridiculous.
Pyroblast & Red Elemental Blast
These are SB cards, however very good ones. They help win counter wars, help destroy Counterbalance and can blow up Merfolk. It’s a pretty decent SB card, but will depend on your meta if you want to run it.
Ancient Grudge
This card is great if you expect Stax or Affinity. Krosan Grip is still just a better overall option though.
Pyroclasm or Volcanic Fallout
A good sweeper, good against Goblins and Elves. Normally Fallout is used against Merfolk. Both of these cards are meta dependent though.
Firespout
Another good sweeper for Red. Can also be used to rid the board of fliers and keep all your dudes alive. Very good for an aggro infested meta.
White
Swords to Plowshares
You all knew this card was coming as soon as you saw the color title. Yes, StP is the best removal in the format, and the main reason to splash White over Red in Tresh. It will stop any heavily played threat in the format, and stop them for good. The life gain doesn’t really bother this deck as it can play in the long game as well as the short.
Qasali Pridemage
Another great reason to splash White, and simply better than Trygon.
Oblivion Ring
Another great answer all card, and becoming increasingly good against Dark Depths decks.
Rhox War Monk
This card is great against any of the aggro decks or burn decks out there. He’s hard to kill, and Lifelink makes him a number 1 threat right beside Goyf. Usually relegated to the SB.
Black
Dark Confidant
Easily the best reason the splash Black. Continuous card draw is always good, and the fact that we don’t usually play anything over CMC 3 is just another good reason to play him.
Maelstrom Pulse
Another answer all card, unfortunately this is the only one Black has. Pernicious Deed could be run in its place, but you have to be careful about your Mongoose, you never want them to hit the yard.
Smother
Very good spot removal in the current format, and fairly close to the caliber of Bolt and StP.
Thoughtseize
A very unorthodox card choice, but one people use anyways. Very good against any slower deck paired with your counter magic suit. Not so good against the faster aggro decks.
Putrefy
Again, good spot removal, a little more narrow than Pulse, but Instant speed can sometimes make the difference.
Extripate
The other main reason to run Black, except this one comes from the SB. Good against a lot of decks, especially other control decks.
Engineered Plague
Good against anything tribal. Not much to say about this one.
Diabolic Edict
Good against Aggro decks or decks such as Reanimator and Natural Order.
Well, I could put more options, but these are the main ones. This is Legacy were talking about, there are a lot more options out there, it all depends on what you’re willing to try.
Lands
Generally speaking, it all depends on what color your splashing and personal preference. Some people prefer to use basics, while others do not. I will give you my land base for a UGr Tempo Thresh deck. The dual lands can be interchanged depending on the color your splashing.
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Island
1 Forest
3 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Ilsand
4 Wasteland
As you can see, you can interchange the colors with your desired splash, or use more basics, or more fetches, whatever your preference happens to be.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Stifle
4 Brainstrom
4 Ponder
3 Fire/Ice
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Island
1 Forest
4 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 Trygon Predator
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstrom
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
3 Spell Snare
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Windswept Heath
3 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Island
4 Wasteland
3 Dark Confidant
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Snare
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Smother
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Verdent Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
1 Island
1 Forest
4 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
*matchup analysis to come later*
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
And almost no manabases run basics. This has been debated forever but it's just not needed and weakens the overall deck to fit them in.
Good job on the rest, I like the card-by-card analysis.
EDIT: also, it should be noted that this deck is weak against an underdeveloped metagame. if your opponents love their WW decks and whatnot, this deck will be underpowered. Basically, it preys on duals, fetches, and weak manabases.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK Level 4 Bad Guy
Tarmagoyf = Tarmogoyf
Vendillion Clique = Vendilion Clique
Great primer, really love the individual card analysis. Makes it easier for newer players to make informed choices. A+
Legacy
:symr::symb: Goblins
Dragon Stompy
:symw::symb::symg: Dark Horizons
:symg::symw::symr: Enchantress
Oh this might be a dumb question but how does this deck compare with countertop thresh? That seems to be the biggest difference.
The biggest difference is those 7-8 cards.
Being able to Tempo your opponent instead of setting up a CounterTop soft lock. CounterTop doesn't use cards such as Wasteland or Spell Snare, which I find are more important then Top or Counterbalance in a lot more matches in the current meta
And Top has fallen a lot from when it was first introduced. Legacy has answers for it now.
Plus I love Canadian Thresh, it's a lot of fun to play even in a developed meta.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
Tempo thresh is a fantastic deck, but it's designed to prey on developed metagames. If people are going to come to tournie with good cards and good decks, thresh will stomp them. Stifle + Wasteland are much weaker versus random jank.dec though.
CB/Top has some better game against random stuff if it's tuned to a legacy metagame, but counterbalance is as much a crutch for the deck as it is a weapon - removing other control cards for it means if you can't match curves with somebody, the "control" part of your deck will fly out the window. Also, by running 3-4 CB and 3-4 tops usually and no wastelands, you have a much harder time reaching threshold, so you have to drop the goose and look for answers in U/G/W/x - Rhox War Monk is perfect for that slot.
Fundamentally, Tempo Thresh is in a better position to control the early game and push its advantage to a quick win than CB/Top. They win in similar ways (your opp. can't do anything to stop the onslaught of undercosted stuff), it's whether you want to win in an aggressive or defensive way that determines the deck. Tempo thresh is probably the better deck nowadays, CB/Top is aggravating but not the end of the world, and probably not as good as spell snare + stuff in that slot for disruption.
Countertop doesn't have this. Simple as that.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK Level 4 Bad Guy
I also was curious to know about the matchups (detailed match analysis with sideboarding options) against this deck? How does it do against Loam, Stax, Landstill, TES, Pox, Mirror, Dredge, and Fish?
My Trade Thread
Currently Playing:
Retired
Last round, I got paired down and played against Elves, which can go combo or aggro. I took Game 2 and Game 3. Pyroclasm helped out in both of those games. So, that was the only real test... also would have gone better if I had had my Wastelands (which are on the way). Instead I had Islands in those slots...
Oh, I did play 2 casual games against a Monoblack Pox deck. I think I held up fairly well, went 1-1 without sideboards.
but they all look like they have the heart of my favorite deck for about 3 years now and thats SUPERGROW. was that considered TT?? just curious but ya the goyf is much better than the quiron dryad for immediate board power although i still like land grant because i dont run but 6 mana lands 4 fetch 2 wastelands...
btw why swords to plowshares > path to exile ?
trying to move into standard because more players in my area are moving that way
I think its mostly because PTE is kind of counteractive in this deck, you're trying to use stifle and wastelands to wreck fragile manabases. PTE can potentialy fix what you just used your wasteland to disrupt.
On the other hand, I can kinda see siding in PTE against monocolor decks being a viable option, but I'm not sure its worth the sideboard slot. It still accelerates them.
as i said what happened to super grow?? here is what i play as far as GU-
how is this not visable??
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nimble Mongoose
COUNTER -15
4 Stifle
3 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstrom
3 Ponder
3 standstill
DISRUPTION -9
2 winter orb
3 orim's chant
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Land grant
LAND -14
2 Flooded strand
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
3 Wasteland
trying to move into standard because more players in my area are moving that way
Why would you play a card just to beat Dredge and be worse than the other creatures or spells you could run in its place during other matchups? The only reason would be if your metagame is infested with Dredge and you want a chance to win game one. Most people don't have a metagame full of Dredge, so I think people are justified in saying Mogg Fanatic is a poor choice.
I currently play only two formats, what I play in them is:
Legacy: Domain Zoo, RGW Zoo, Merfolk, Solidarity, Mono Black Aggro
EDH: Kagemaro, First to Suffer
My Trade Thread
trying to move into standard because more players in my area are moving that way
On the banning of Mystical Tutor (R.I.P.):
Currently Playing:
Retired
Swords is used in the White splash because usually you do not care about the life gain.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig.
NO RUG: Primer
Tempo Thresh: Primer
On the banning of Mystical Tutor (R.I.P.):
trying to move into standard because more players in my area are moving that way
Land Grant seems meh, especialy if you end up drawing too much land with it. I mean it could work, but I don't see it being necessary.
Winter Orb really shines when you use artifact mana like Mox Diamond and Chrome Mox, which tempo thresh doesn't run. It'd just slow us down too much.
UGr Tempo Thresh seems to do better overall than the UGw version, but if you're running UGw I could see Orim's Chant being useful.
Standstill just doesn't work here. If you're running Standstill you need Aether Vial, Manlands, and other ways to play around it without triggering it for your opponent. Tempo Thresh doesn't have that.