I've owned three Jace, the Mind Sculptors for the longest time and have been meaning to get a fourth, but have always put off doing it. Now I doubt I'll be able to because I can't stomach $150 just to complete the playset.
Meh. Legacy decks with Jace rarely run more than three nowadays, anyway.
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Legacy:UR Sneak and Show IUBG Team America IX Metalworker MUD Modern:UBR Blue Jund IWBX Eldrazi Processors IX Affinity IWRG Nacatl Burn IGR Tron IUBR Grishoalbrand
I've owned three Jace, the Mind Sculptors for the longest time and have been meaning to get a fourth, but have always put off doing it. Now I doubt I'll be able to because I can't stomach $150 just to complete the playset.
Meh. Legacy decks with Jace rarely run more than three nowadays, anyway.
I am in the same boat as you. I picked up the three Jaces for U/W and now I regret not picking up the forth.
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Current Legacy Decks
0USpiral Tide0U
UWU/W 'Miracle Top' Control UW
012 Post 0
Random Opponent: Playing against 12 Post Feels like trying to win in Yugioh with no super secret rares.
And I thought I paid a lot for them when they were 50 bucks a pop.
Does the word ridiculous come to mind?
I remember them at that price. I shelled out 65 and 70 for 2 respectfully. Then I traded into the 3rd. I am blown away he basically gained +60% overnight. I'm so fed up with this game for financial reasons. The minute I seem to get a hold of cards, the remaining acquisitions double in price. Ridiculous is one of the many words I'll say. Luckily I own a bunch of duals, playsets of waste, force, etc. Other things like LED I'll never own now. It's just a joke where the $$$ is heading.
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10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
Apparently even Force of Will is going up. $99 on SCG for NM copies (but still at its usual $60-70 range at most other places as of this post).
Well, looks like I'm selling my second playset for other staples I don't actually own. I bought that extra playset just for convenience sake, anyway.
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Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy:UR Sneak and Show IUBG Team America IX Metalworker MUD Modern:UBR Blue Jund IWBX Eldrazi Processors IX Affinity IWRG Nacatl Burn IGR Tron IUBR Grishoalbrand
Sure, it's hard to get new cards, but I already have most of the cards I really want because I've already built the decks I love the most. It would be cool to play Lands and someday I will get there, but I have absolutely no problem with not having every deck in the format in my collection.
I can only play one of them at a time, after all.
As annoying as the phenomenon of desired cards increasing in price is, on the other hand: look at what's happened to the value of the cards I already own. Why, they're outperforming my portfolio! The Dow Jones has nothing on these babies. Even the BitCoin miners need to respect the relentless rise of MtG collectible trading card values.
At this rate, I'll be able to cash in one of my decks for a yacht and retire at 62, then worry about the estate tax implications of the unsold portion of the manabase.
Okay, this really needs to be said because this is serious. Take a look at the recent price spikes for FoW, LED and Jace.
FoW and LED - $65 to $100
Jace - $100 to $150
This is unprecedented in our history for such huge jumps in so short a time span. If this is indicative of where Legacy is heading, we are in some serious trouble.
Small increases as we've been having over time are fine. At that rate, this game has many, many years left even with the RL. But if cards start jumping in price by 70% overnight and do this every 3 to 6 months, it won't be long before Moat's current price tag of $300 is the average or norm.
This is alarming. And the worst part is, when players start seeing these huge spikes, they're going to panic and start running out to buy cards before the prices go up even more. That in turn will cause more price spikes and it will be a never ending spiral.
I am a die hard Legacy fan. Love this game. Been playing it for 19 years. Never loved the price of cards but could always live with them because prices always without exception went up gradually.
If those days are gone, we are in for some serious trouble.
Okay, this really needs to be said because this is serious. Take a look at the recent price spikes for FoW, LED and Jace.
FoW and LED - $65 to $100
Jace - $100 to $150
This is unprecedented in our history for such huge jumps in so short a time span. If this is indicative of where Legacy is heading, we are in some serious trouble.
Small increases as we've been having over time are fine. At that rate, this game has many, many years left even with the RL. But if cards start jumping in price by 70% overnight and do this every 3 to 6 months, it won't be long before Moat's current price tag of $300 is the average or norm.
This is alarming. And the worst part is, when players start seeing these huge spikes, they're going to panic and start running out to buy cards before the prices go up even more. That in turn will cause more price spikes and it will be a never ending spiral.
I am a die hard Legacy fan. Love this game. Been playing it for 19 years. Never loved the price of cards but could always live with them because prices always without exception went up gradually.
If those days are gone, we are in for some serious trouble.
Something has to change and fast.
One solution is boycotting SCG; if they are the
ones setting prices, it seems like a logical response.
One solution is boycotting SCG; if they are the
ones setting prices, it seems like a logical response.
I was a little skeptical of the whole "SCG increases Legacy prices cause they basically own the format" conspiracy, but this FoW evidence is pretty damning. There has been on reason to up the price up to $100, especially after it just jumped up to $75 last week. They're also the only ones who have done this.
SCG is definitely the main culprit in the prices of cards rising, but they gather valuable info at tournaments and follow trends in the staples of Legacy. Cards that are old and out of print are getting scarcer every year and with the popularity of Magic growing every quarter, it makes sense that hard to find cards would rise in price. Regardless of this, I do feel that SCG is taking advantage of the situation a bit more than they should. Perhaps they are secretly trying to kill Legacy so that in a year or more they can switch over to Standard on Saturday and Modern on Sunday in order to get higher participation ($$$) in their events...
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--Beware the pale horse, and the man that rode him was death and Hell followed with him.
--Today I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.
Okay, this really needs to be said because this is serious. Take a look at the recent price spikes for FoW, LED and Jace.
FoW and LED - $65 to $100
Jace - $100 to $150
This is unprecedented in our history for such huge jumps in so short a time span. If this is indicative of where Legacy is heading, we are in some serious trouble.
Small increases as we've been having over time are fine. At that rate, this game has many, many years left even with the RL. But if cards start jumping in price by 70% overnight and do this every 3 to 6 months, it won't be long before Moat's current price tag of $300 is the average or norm.
This is alarming. And the worst part is, when players start seeing these huge spikes, they're going to panic and start running out to buy cards before the prices go up even more. That in turn will cause more price spikes and it will be a never ending spiral.
I am a die hard Legacy fan. Love this game. Been playing it for 19 years. Never loved the price of cards but could always live with them because prices always without exception went up gradually.
If those days are gone, we are in for some serious trouble.
Something has to change and fast.
^^This. I too understand price inflation over a period of time. The gradual rise is something I can comprehend, even if it's a bit steep. Overnight +40% and 50% is hard to comprehend. Did people suddenly wake up craving Jace the Mind Sculptor? I don't get it. It appears to be cornering the market from SCG which is something I hope they aren't doing. I've heard the conspiracy of top stores buying out all the duals, making a gradual rise in price....but these overnight 'surprises' are disgusting.
Where does it end? I have grown embarrassed over how much my legacy decks are worth. It's not something to be proud of. Cardboard should not be near this valuable. Unfortunately the writing has been on the wall and these recent actions make things clearer. What's the site that tracks the $$$ of a card over time? Can we get links to LED, Force, Jace, Thoughtseize, Karakas? I've debated about cashing out but these sudden price spikes are making the decision easier.
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10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
I've debated about cashing out but these sudden price spikes are making the decision easier.
I am also quite concerned over these insane spikes. I keep a list of my more valuable cards on deckbox.org. Two weeks ago, my collection was worth, according to deckbox.org, 10k. Which is totally insane on it own, I can tell you that I didn't spend 1/3 of that on the cards in the first place. Today it is close 11k. A ~10% gain in two weeks on ~550 cards total.
Something has to give at some point. I am worried that, in the future, liquidity in the high end staple market will approach 0. If no one will buy at the inflated prices, and no one will sell for any less, then Legacy, and the MTG market in general is in big trouble.
I want to cash out now because liquidity and prices are high, but I really bought the cards to play with. I have a retirement account for savings.
Which brings me to a quick rant. I hate when people say I 'invested' in card X or Y. MTG cards are not an investment. We are for sure in a bubble. It is always easy to see a bubble from inside of it, but knowing when it will burst is the trick.
Where does it end? I have grown embarrassed over how much my legacy decks are worth. It's not something to be proud of. Cardboard should not be near this valuable. Unfortunately the writing has been on the wall and these recent actions make things clearer. What's the site that tracks the $$$ of a card over time? Can we get links to LED, Force, Jace, Thoughtseize, Karakas? I've debated about cashing out but these sudden price spikes are making the decision easier.
Honestly, I just want the format to be more accessible. I have enough card diversity to build a number of different "top" decks, I'd just prefer the barrier of entry to not be so damn high (high, just not THIS high I guess :P). I guess I'm fearful of the format dying out in 5-10 years because things are just astronomically priced.
I'm with you 100%! This is a brilliant game and I want people to be able to buy-in. There are enough staples already in the hands of devoted enthusiasts that the game won't be dead in ten years. But I fear it will be inaccessible to new players and/or flooded with tier-three budget decks.
I can't discount everything SCG has done to keep Legacy a relevant format.
Card retailers are the life blood of Legacy, from you LGS to eBay sellers to big online vendors. If we couldn't order cards local metas would tend to be underdeveloped.
One solution is boycotting SCG; if they are the
ones setting prices, it seems like a logical response.
The fact that people don't boycott SCG indicates that people are in fact willing to pay these prices. That is why the prices are so high - people will pay it. This is a reflection of increased demand relative to supply - no more no less.
Maybe they did. Modern season is over, and probably people are wanting to port their decks into Legacy because not everybody likes Standard.
I honestly think this is the most likely thing. Also, cyclic meta shifts should help prices stabilize.
One of the most effective ways to drive down prices on the rapidly increasing cards (looking at you fetches/JTMS/etc.) is to try and offer these as prizes for larger tournaments instead of duals.
Not to mention I think a lot of price spiking on modern bordered staples is speculation to fluctuation when modern masters hits. Most likely the release won't really affect the price of the original printings much, but I think stores are driving up the price of these cards (specifically ones rumored or likely to be released in modern masters) to:
A - drive up speculation price of the new version when it's released
B - Try and make the general secondary market believe there is a higher demand for these cards and that the price will continue to go up, thus increasing the likeliness of selling cards that have been stagnant.
Bprt 2 - I know it's a little counter intuitive at first, but it's actually the 2nd yomi, but if you have expensive product that hasn't moved recently there are two approaches to trying to move it. The first, and most obvious, is to reduce the price of these cards, cheaper deals, people buy. But when you have a large enough volume of cards, shifting the price up can create a "false image of demand" and "scare" people into buying them before the price climbs even higher. Somehow I think some sneaky market analysts may be using this tactic to shift the cost of staples.
Either way, the best way to combat rising secondary market prices is to seek out sales from private individuals or contact stores directly. Instead of making a full price purchase for 15 cards to buy into the format/a specific deck - call up the store/supplier you're thinking about purchasing from and tell them you're looking to drop a significant $$ and ask them if they can take a trade in on any staples you have or if they can give you a discount (for example if you purchase 5 duals or a playset of wastelands, etc.).
Regardless of who you're shopping from, these retailers enjoy supporting the game and the market and are most likely more than willing to cut you a small discount (5%-10%, free sales tax, etc.) if you're purchasing expensive cards in volume. The last thing any retailer wants to do is offend/drive off their customers. Being polite and working with them is just as an effective means of cutting costs.
EDIT: I know for a fact that they'll work with you if you're polite, honest, upfront and looking to purchase in volume because I've done this at my LGS.
They even have some rules in place for discounts like if you spend X amount, participate in the daily tournament, purchase X packs, etc. then you get a discount on singles.
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Trade thread under reconstruction. Because you can't spell slaughter without laughter.
One solution is boycotting SCG; if they are the
ones setting prices, it seems like a logical response.
I am the market street cafe mod here on MTGS, and I hear this nearly every day.
SCG is not the ones setting prices.
Here's a quote from SCG's manager:
Originally Posted by BenBleiweiss
I personally would not pay $1000 for a foil that came out three years ago. There are people who will. So we're in agreement there - but I'd be doing my job a disservice if I was a slave to my own tastes, versus understanding the market and the spending habits of our customers (and the Magic economy in general).
Serious question time: Are there any cards that I've been aggressive with (because these are all my personal calls) that anyone feels aren't rock-solid staples with a huge amount of demand behind them? I could understand the "SCG is manipulating things!" angle if we were picking bad cards at random and making runs on them - but I know the list of what I've been trying to get ahold of recently, and all of them (in my opinion) are among the most popular/best cards in either all of Magic, or their own format.
- Ben
I'm not trying to start an arguement here, just putting this out there.
To stay on topic, prices are getting quite ridiculous. Anything that increases more than 20% in a week or so is scary. I'm scared to see how high jace can go. My friends and I have been watching TCGplayer carefully, and it actually inches up a few bucks every day or so.
And I thought I paid a lot for them when they were 50 bucks a pop.
Does the word ridiculous come to mind?
I am pretty sure by this time next year Jace will be a $200 card. WWK was horribly under printed.
When it passes Moat, that's when I just cry.
Speaking or Moat, I think that's around $300 now, right?
One of these days I'm going to own one...after I win the lottery. LOL
Meh. Legacy decks with Jace rarely run more than three nowadays, anyway.
Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy: UR Sneak and Show I UBG Team America I X Metalworker MUD
Modern: UBR Blue Jund I WBX Eldrazi Processors I X Affinity I WRG Nacatl Burn I GR Tron I UBR Grishoalbrand
I am in the same boat as you. I picked up the three Jaces for U/W and now I regret not picking up the forth.
I remember them at that price. I shelled out 65 and 70 for 2 respectfully. Then I traded into the 3rd. I am blown away he basically gained +60% overnight. I'm so fed up with this game for financial reasons. The minute I seem to get a hold of cards, the remaining acquisitions double in price. Ridiculous is one of the many words I'll say. Luckily I own a bunch of duals, playsets of waste, force, etc. Other things like LED I'll never own now. It's just a joke where the $$$ is heading.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
Im just hoping MM makes goyf cheaper. I never bought mine and hot damn are they expensive.
UBG Reanimator
RUB Delver
R Burn
UR Delver
UBW Tin Fins
UBGR ANT
Well, looks like I'm selling my second playset for other staples I don't actually own. I bought that extra playset just for convenience sake, anyway.
Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy: UR Sneak and Show I UBG Team America I X Metalworker MUD
Modern: UBR Blue Jund I WBX Eldrazi Processors I X Affinity I WRG Nacatl Burn I GR Tron I UBR Grishoalbrand
Also on another note, what are the chances of getting Jace on FTV: 20? After all he was the most dominant card during the Caw-Blade era.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/805-w-underground-sea-h-revised-lands
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
Sealing fates since 2010
Sure, it's hard to get new cards, but I already have most of the cards I really want because I've already built the decks I love the most. It would be cool to play Lands and someday I will get there, but I have absolutely no problem with not having every deck in the format in my collection.
I can only play one of them at a time, after all.
As annoying as the phenomenon of desired cards increasing in price is, on the other hand: look at what's happened to the value of the cards I already own. Why, they're outperforming my portfolio! The Dow Jones has nothing on these babies. Even the BitCoin miners need to respect the relentless rise of MtG collectible trading card values.
At this rate, I'll be able to cash in one of my decks for a yacht and retire at 62, then worry about the estate tax implications of the unsold portion of the manabase.
Overall record: 139-98-15
Total number of matches: 252
Win percentage ignoring draws: 58.649789
Win percentage including draws: 55.158730
FoW and LED - $65 to $100
Jace - $100 to $150
This is unprecedented in our history for such huge jumps in so short a time span. If this is indicative of where Legacy is heading, we are in some serious trouble.
Small increases as we've been having over time are fine. At that rate, this game has many, many years left even with the RL. But if cards start jumping in price by 70% overnight and do this every 3 to 6 months, it won't be long before Moat's current price tag of $300 is the average or norm.
This is alarming. And the worst part is, when players start seeing these huge spikes, they're going to panic and start running out to buy cards before the prices go up even more. That in turn will cause more price spikes and it will be a never ending spiral.
I am a die hard Legacy fan. Love this game. Been playing it for 19 years. Never loved the price of cards but could always live with them because prices always without exception went up gradually.
If those days are gone, we are in for some serious trouble.
Something has to change and fast.
One solution is boycotting SCG; if they are the
ones setting prices, it seems like a logical response.
I was a little skeptical of the whole "SCG increases Legacy prices cause they basically own the format" conspiracy, but this FoW evidence is pretty damning. There has been on reason to up the price up to $100, especially after it just jumped up to $75 last week. They're also the only ones who have done this.
Shame SCG, shame.
--Today I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.
^^This. I too understand price inflation over a period of time. The gradual rise is something I can comprehend, even if it's a bit steep. Overnight +40% and 50% is hard to comprehend. Did people suddenly wake up craving Jace the Mind Sculptor? I don't get it. It appears to be cornering the market from SCG which is something I hope they aren't doing. I've heard the conspiracy of top stores buying out all the duals, making a gradual rise in price....but these overnight 'surprises' are disgusting.
Where does it end? I have grown embarrassed over how much my legacy decks are worth. It's not something to be proud of. Cardboard should not be near this valuable. Unfortunately the writing has been on the wall and these recent actions make things clearer. What's the site that tracks the $$$ of a card over time? Can we get links to LED, Force, Jace, Thoughtseize, Karakas? I've debated about cashing out but these sudden price spikes are making the decision easier.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I am also quite concerned over these insane spikes. I keep a list of my more valuable cards on deckbox.org. Two weeks ago, my collection was worth, according to deckbox.org, 10k. Which is totally insane on it own, I can tell you that I didn't spend 1/3 of that on the cards in the first place. Today it is close 11k. A ~10% gain in two weeks on ~550 cards total.
Something has to give at some point. I am worried that, in the future, liquidity in the high end staple market will approach 0. If no one will buy at the inflated prices, and no one will sell for any less, then Legacy, and the MTG market in general is in big trouble.
I want to cash out now because liquidity and prices are high, but I really bought the cards to play with. I have a retirement account for savings.
Which brings me to a quick rant. I hate when people say I 'invested' in card X or Y. MTG cards are not an investment. We are for sure in a bubble. It is always easy to see a bubble from inside of it, but knowing when it will burst is the trick.
Here are some of the recent price jumps:
LED - 28% increase is 9 days http://www.mtgstocks.com/card.php?id=10345
Force of Will - 15% increase in 4 days (53% if you count SCG's attempt to raise to $100) http://www.mtgstocks.com/card.php?id=10551
JTMS - 60% increase in 8 days http://www.mtgstocks.com/card.php?id=1589
Chains of Mephistopheles - 120% increase over 2 months http://www.mtgstocks.com/card.php?id=11521
And perhaps the scariest one:
Tabernacle - 40% increase in 3 days at SCG.
Maybe they did. Modern season is over, and probably people are wanting to port their decks into Legacy because not everybody likes Standard.
I'm with you 100%! This is a brilliant game and I want people to be able to buy-in. There are enough staples already in the hands of devoted enthusiasts that the game won't be dead in ten years. But I fear it will be inaccessible to new players and/or flooded with tier-three budget decks.
Not at all.
Yes they could; but leaving the prices far lower than they know they intend to sell the cards (when they get stock) could also be misleading.
Card retailers are the life blood of Legacy, from you LGS to eBay sellers to big online vendors. If we couldn't order cards local metas would tend to be underdeveloped.
The fact that people don't boycott SCG indicates that people are in fact willing to pay these prices. That is why the prices are so high - people will pay it. This is a reflection of increased demand relative to supply - no more no less.
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
I honestly think this is the most likely thing. Also, cyclic meta shifts should help prices stabilize.
One of the most effective ways to drive down prices on the rapidly increasing cards (looking at you fetches/JTMS/etc.) is to try and offer these as prizes for larger tournaments instead of duals.
Not to mention I think a lot of price spiking on modern bordered staples is speculation to fluctuation when modern masters hits. Most likely the release won't really affect the price of the original printings much, but I think stores are driving up the price of these cards (specifically ones rumored or likely to be released in modern masters) to:
A - drive up speculation price of the new version when it's released
B - Try and make the general secondary market believe there is a higher demand for these cards and that the price will continue to go up, thus increasing the likeliness of selling cards that have been stagnant.
Bprt 2 - I know it's a little counter intuitive at first, but it's actually the 2nd yomi, but if you have expensive product that hasn't moved recently there are two approaches to trying to move it. The first, and most obvious, is to reduce the price of these cards, cheaper deals, people buy. But when you have a large enough volume of cards, shifting the price up can create a "false image of demand" and "scare" people into buying them before the price climbs even higher. Somehow I think some sneaky market analysts may be using this tactic to shift the cost of staples.
Either way, the best way to combat rising secondary market prices is to seek out sales from private individuals or contact stores directly. Instead of making a full price purchase for 15 cards to buy into the format/a specific deck - call up the store/supplier you're thinking about purchasing from and tell them you're looking to drop a significant $$ and ask them if they can take a trade in on any staples you have or if they can give you a discount (for example if you purchase 5 duals or a playset of wastelands, etc.).
Regardless of who you're shopping from, these retailers enjoy supporting the game and the market and are most likely more than willing to cut you a small discount (5%-10%, free sales tax, etc.) if you're purchasing expensive cards in volume. The last thing any retailer wants to do is offend/drive off their customers. Being polite and working with them is just as an effective means of cutting costs.
EDIT: I know for a fact that they'll work with you if you're polite, honest, upfront and looking to purchase in volume because I've done this at my LGS.
They even have some rules in place for discounts like if you spend X amount, participate in the daily tournament, purchase X packs, etc. then you get a discount on singles.
Maverick -- Storm
Click here for trade threadTrade thread under reconstruction.
Because you can't spell slaughter without laughter.
Didnt the spike on fetches started like this?
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/805-w-underground-sea-h-revised-lands
Has critical thinking gone the way of the do-do bird?
Nice sample size of two.
5x SCG Legacy Open T8
16th place GP Indianapolis 2012
Check out my Legacy stream
I am the market street cafe mod here on MTGS, and I hear this nearly every day.
SCG is not the ones setting prices.
Here's a quote from SCG's manager:
I'm not trying to start an arguement here, just putting this out there.
To stay on topic, prices are getting quite ridiculous. Anything that increases more than 20% in a week or so is scary. I'm scared to see how high jace can go. My friends and I have been watching TCGplayer carefully, and it actually inches up a few bucks every day or so.
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Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
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