In his austin report at channel fireball, Conley Woods talks about a very funny match where he kept a very good hand with extirpate and Ghostly Prison just to see his opponent deal 21 the first 2 with mox, mox, rusalka, dredge bunch of stuff, play land for bloodghast, etc.. Just a fun fact.
I have a question about playing the deck, specifically game 2, bringing hate for their hate, whitout knowing what they will bring.
Let's assume, for simplicity, that the hate cards you are concerned are Trap and Leyline. So you have 4 Nix and 4 Echoing Truth in your SB, for example. If it's a matchup where one of your answers is good on it's own (Nix against Hypergenesis, Echoing against Dark Depths) you can just bring both if you want to be safe against any hate he brings. Whatever he brings, you won't have many dead cards, since half of the anti-hate is good on it's on.
But what about facing zoo, for example, where Truth is lackluster and Nix is downright useless? If you just put the 8 cards there, you risk dilluting your deck a lot and just getting killed the old way, even without facing much hate. But if you bring only one of those, you risk still having dead cards while not having an answer.
So, what are the tips on sideboarding G2 (Since G3 you can usually just bring answers against the hate you already faced G2)?
Edit: This is just an example, I don't mean to say that every SB will always have 4 Nix and 4 Echoing, it's just about the situation when you have different answers for the hate they might bring, don't know what they will bring and both answers are bad if they don't bring or don't draw the corresponding hate card
assuming from the example of bringing in those two hate, trap and leyline.
I'd say you would have to slow the deck down to accommodate the inclusion of the anti-hate cards.
I realize this is a bit random but why not run mesmeric orb? Is it too slow or does dredge not have enough permanents to make it worthwhile? Or is is some other reason? Whenever I play the deck, I seem to have consistency issues in terms of not being able to dredge enough without the magus. I'm not extremely familiar with the deck though, so it could just be that I'm misplaying somewhere or missing something...
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I realize this is a bit random but why not run mesmeric orb? Is it too slow or does dredge not have enough permanents to make it worthwhile? Or is is some other reason? Whenever I play the deck, I seem to have consistency issues in terms of not being able to dredge enough without the magus. I'm not extremely familiar with the deck though, so it could just be that I'm misplaying somewhere or missing something...
Mesmeric orb is way to slow by the time that you would be playing this you should have already dredged a ton of cards. And the problem you are having sounds like not mulliganing properly. When you get a hand that has no dredge enablers you have to ship it.
I would like to know how to play against Leyline of the Void, I side in the Echoing Truth, but that's a joke against leyline. (Especially in shimizu's list, only 3 echoing truth)
The only chance I see is waiting for Echoing Truth and a Thoughtseize, bounce EOT and then discard it? But that's unlikely against a deck running black, having lots of discard himself..?
Also I'd like to know how to side generally, what do you take out for the Echoing, when do you side in Tombstalker... etc.?
Sorry for being newbie.
Against Leyline, you need to keep a hand that can dredge everything you need in the one turn that leyline is not in play. And that may not necessarily mean comboing off, it might mean getting a bunch of guys to attack on multiple turns. Don't forget that Hederon Crab can mill them to death.
Sometimes you'll die before you get to that point, and sometimes they'll also have Ravenous Trap/Tormod's Crypt and you are just cold. That's just the way dredge goes.
I usually sideboard out Glimpses and a bridge or two because against the hate you are aiming to play a slightly longer game. I use Tombstalker as part of a beatdown plan alongside Narcomoebas and Bloodghast. This really only works against slow decks, and it's a wacky plan at best, so I don't really know if I'm doing it right.
What do u guys think about Rotting Rats?
it a turn 2 drop that lets u discard a dredge creature and makes ur opponent discard a card whitch is great. Also if u dredge it into ur graveyard u can unearth it for the same effect and use it as a Dread Return target awsell.
ive only been running dredge for the last couple days, and put in 3 of the rats on a wim, and they have been great thus far. I was just wondering what other ppls opinion would be.
dread return 1, it gets back the secound, they die to legend rule, the secound ones cipt trigger resolves bringing back the first one, which brings back the secound.....
infinate loop to make alot of guys with a bridge.... you just need to run artifacts to break the loops like the blue and black artifact lands?
really really not trolling here but: if you wanted to run a sharuum loop you would only have room for 2 in the deck(maybe) because the list is so tight(you would still need zealot), and the manabase cant support borderposts with 2 basics... not only that, you would have to cut 4 of you 18 lands to even play them, so you would get mana screwed more, mulligan more, etc and not to mention they dont have the option to NOT come into play tapped... nice synergy with crabs but A thats not a primary dredger and B im sure everyone would agree that the con outweighs the pro
I have been testing for a few days, the decks I have tested with where NLU, Naya zoo, and G/b rock. This has done decently well hitting them. It is trying to utalsie the power of dredge tutering with dark depths, it can win a few ways, and the shelldock isle most often goes off turn 8. I reallth enjoy this deck so far, and it seems to do well. I will keep testing, comments?
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Originally Posted by badjuju As the Last of the Control Players, we are all part of a sacred brotherhood; a band of brothers who would rather die on their knees tapping islands and giving permission than live on our feet cascading into Blightning.
I run a dredge deck with four copies of dread return and already have flame-kin zealot, sphinx of lost truths, and iona, shield of emeria but want one more dread return target. Got any suggestions?
I run a dredge deck with four copies of dread return and already have flame-kin zealot, sphinx of lost truths, and iona, shield of emeria but want one more dread return target. Got any suggestions?
If you want more big creatures, you could try Inkwell Leviathan, Ancestor's Chosen in or out of the board, maybe even Akroma, Angel of Wrath. Those could work, but you're running the stock targets already, I mean you wouldn't want to open with a bunch of them in hand.
I run a dredge deck with four copies of dread return and already have flame-kin zealot, sphinx of lost truths, and iona, shield of emeria but want one more dread return target. Got any suggestions?
and the reason to want one more dread return target is?
2 Sphinx + 1 Iona + 1 Zealot is more than enough. In fact, 2 Sphinx + 1 Zealot is enough.
I dont see why you need another, and Golgari Grave-troll is at least a 11/11 with regenerate ability if you ever need to Dread Return something for the sake of Dread Returning.
I wasn't necessarily looking for a fatty (I know grave troll gets big), I was actually asking about something with an ability that would be relevant like how Iona on turn 2 can shut down an entire deck. The reason I wanted another target was because where I play most people play decks that get rid of bridge and make lots of chumps to hold off the trolls.
woodfall primus isnt that bad. hes a pseudo vindicate that comes back. but if youre running zealot sphinx and iona i dont think youre gonna fizzle.
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P.S im sorry that this "wall" of text is very scary and menacing but i believe you can do it the lack of gramer and punctuation is because i have a blood fued with it due to the fact when i was four and the teacher said i would die poor and lonely and the kids would dance on my grave when i died because i could not correctly punctuate with commas
has anyone tested running a realm razer? ive been using one online and its pretty decent especially if they get your bridges
Seems much worse than Iona because they can just float mana and destroy it to get their lands back... or if they even want an Armageddon, they can kill it with the trigger on the stack to permanently remove all the lands.
Just wondering if anyone's tried a version ofthis deck using red for Burning Inquiry and Goblin Bushwhacker. Both seem like they'd be incredible in the right list, and I could imagine that green might be able to be cut in favor of red.... Does this make sense to anyone?
Just wondering if anyone's tried a version ofthis deck using red for Burning Inquiry and Goblin Bushwhacker. Both seem like they'd be incredible in the right list, and I could imagine that green might be able to be cut in favor of red.... Does this make sense to anyone?
It doesnt. Dredge actually needs a hand and actually can and should hardcast spells when possible. Discarding randomly is not what it wants.
Bushwhacker is strictly inferior to Zealot, because you cannot pay for kicker if you Dread Return it. Furthermore, you require 4 of them, to have 1 consistently in your hand and you still need red mana.
Please think through your ideas before posting or you will just be ridiculed.
I like twilight shepherd in place of the sphynx of lost truths! Im going to run some tests soon... it just seems like i very rarely get to 5 mana (or even 5 turns with this deck) to hardcast a sphynx as a dradge outlet anyway and if i,ve got a bridge or two in the 'yard sacking to a rusalka to dredge and dread return sacs might be insane with this chick
I like twilight shepherd in place of the sphynx of lost truths! Im going to run some tests soon... it just seems like i very rarely get to 5 mana (or even 5 turns with this deck) to hardcast a sphynx as a dradge outlet anyway and if i,ve got a bridge or two in the 'yard sacking to a rusalka to dredge and dread return sacs might be insane with this chick
I wonder why past lists of 2007 Dredge runs Cephalid Sage, and often as 2-of.
Hmm?
Perhaps it was to Dread Return it to dredge 15-18 cards?
Perhaps it was to hardcast it to dig for answers against hate?
I wonder.
Maybe because after all that dredging, the deck is tapped out of mana, and Drowned Rusulka powered dredge could only be possible if Dredge had more mana?
I wonder why past lists of 2007 Dredge runs Cephalid Sage, and often as 2-of.
Pretty sure it's because sphinx is a card from zendikar... Which wasn't out in '07. And ya its a dread return target that most likely dredges the rest of the deck.
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assuming from the example of bringing in those two hate, trap and leyline.
I'd say you would have to slow the deck down to accommodate the inclusion of the anti-hate cards.
so assuming this somewhat standard build
4 Bloodghast
4 Narcomoeba
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Hedron Crab
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Drowned Rusalka
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
Spells
3 Ideas Unbound
4 Bridge from Below
3 Dread Return
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Dakmor Salvage
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Breeding Pool
3 Watery Grave
4 Echoing Truth
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Tombstalker
3 Thoughtseize
-1 Bloodghast, Hedron Crab, Drowned Rusalka, stinkweed
-4 glimpse
I'm sure my choices are bad but I don't think I would be able to bring myself to get 8 cards sided out
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=378565
-rockinamigo14
Mesmeric orb is way to slow by the time that you would be playing this you should have already dredged a ton of cards. And the problem you are having sounds like not mulliganing properly. When you get a hand that has no dredge enablers you have to ship it.
Against Leyline, you need to keep a hand that can dredge everything you need in the one turn that leyline is not in play. And that may not necessarily mean comboing off, it might mean getting a bunch of guys to attack on multiple turns. Don't forget that Hederon Crab can mill them to death.
Sometimes you'll die before you get to that point, and sometimes they'll also have Ravenous Trap/Tormod's Crypt and you are just cold. That's just the way dredge goes.
I usually sideboard out Glimpses and a bridge or two because against the hate you are aiming to play a slightly longer game. I use Tombstalker as part of a beatdown plan alongside Narcomoebas and Bloodghast. This really only works against slow decks, and it's a wacky plan at best, so I don't really know if I'm doing it right.
it a turn 2 drop that lets u discard a dredge creature and makes ur opponent discard a card whitch is great. Also if u dredge it into ur graveyard u can unearth it for the same effect and use it as a Dread Return target awsell.
ive only been running dredge for the last couple days, and put in 3 of the rats on a wim, and they have been great thus far. I was just wondering what other ppls opinion would be.
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Punishing Depths :symg::symu::symr:
Faithless Dredge :symb::symu::symr::symw::symg:
dread return 1, it gets back the secound, they die to legend rule, the secound ones cipt trigger resolves bringing back the first one, which brings back the secound.....
infinate loop to make alot of guys with a bridge.... you just need to run artifacts to break the loops like the blue and black artifact lands?
Thanks Darth Monkey
good bridge tech though if it were more viable
I call it "A round of hands for the dead." Or "Gift N' Dredge"
3x Gifts ungiven
4x Life from the loam
4x Hedron crab
4x Magus ofthe Bazaar
4x Grim discovery
3x Dralnu, Lich lord
3x Stinkweed imp
1x Necromeba
1x Blood gast
1x Taromogoyf
1x Damnation
1x Mailstom pulse
1x Wurm harvest
1x Cryptic command
1x Pact of negation
3x Vampire hex mage
4x Misty rainforest
3x Verdent catacobs
2x Watery grave
1x Dryad arbor
1x Murmering bosk
1x Treetop village
1x Muta vault
1x Darkmore salvage
2x Urbog, tomb of yawgmawth
1x Shelldock isle
3x Dark depths
4x Island
1x Forest
I have been testing for a few days, the decks I have tested with where NLU, Naya zoo, and G/b rock. This has done decently well hitting them. It is trying to utalsie the power of dredge tutering with dark depths, it can win a few ways, and the shelldock isle most often goes off turn 8. I reallth enjoy this deck so far, and it seems to do well. I will keep testing, comments?
If you want more big creatures, you could try Inkwell Leviathan, Ancestor's Chosen in or out of the board, maybe even Akroma, Angel of Wrath. Those could work, but you're running the stock targets already, I mean you wouldn't want to open with a bunch of them in hand.
and the reason to want one more dread return target is?
2 Sphinx + 1 Iona + 1 Zealot is more than enough. In fact, 2 Sphinx + 1 Zealot is enough.
I dont see why you need another, and Golgari Grave-troll is at least a 11/11 with regenerate ability if you ever need to Dread Return something for the sake of Dread Returning.
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
It doesnt. Dredge actually needs a hand and actually can and should hardcast spells when possible. Discarding randomly is not what it wants.
Bushwhacker is strictly inferior to Zealot, because you cannot pay for kicker if you Dread Return it. Furthermore, you require 4 of them, to have 1 consistently in your hand and you still need red mana.
Please think through your ideas before posting or you will just be ridiculed.
Go eat some salted nuts. Seriously, they're delicious. I recommend cashews.
Anyways, thanks for the answer. Just asking.
2 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Watery Grave
2 Dakmor Salvage
// Creatures
1 Bloodghast
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Hedron Crab
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
3 Magus of the Bazaar
4 Narcomoeba
1 Sphinx of Lost Truths
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Drowned Rusalka
4 Bridge from Below
3 Dread Return
3 Ideas Unbound
1 Life from the Loam
3 Glimpse the Unthinkable
2 Darkblast
3 Echoing Truth
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Thoughtseize
3 Tombstalker
I wonder why past lists of 2007 Dredge runs Cephalid Sage, and often as 2-of.
Hmm?
Perhaps it was to Dread Return it to dredge 15-18 cards?
Perhaps it was to hardcast it to dig for answers against hate?
I wonder.
Maybe because after all that dredging, the deck is tapped out of mana, and Drowned Rusulka powered dredge could only be possible if Dredge had more mana?
Pretty sure it's because sphinx is a card from zendikar... Which wasn't out in '07. And ya its a dread return target that most likely dredges the rest of the deck.