I don't see what the problem with the deck is. I would only remove the Flashfreeze from the SB for Deathmark. A turn quicker, and lets you deal with threats that they are bound to get out anyways.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
What about the ever-popular Leyline of the Void? It seems broadly useful against the current field—all-star vs Dredge, shuts down Punishing Fire recursion, Thopter Foundry, and Martyr of Sands, and keeps enemy goyfs and especially Knights of the Reliquary smaller.
I like the idea of a Blue Red Fae deck, and is Sphinx of Jwar Isle a good finisher?
Yes. No deck can even really deal with him besides Martyr and Rock, meaning you will usually be winning less than 4 turns after playing him no matter what.
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I am working on something kinda like this. Does anyone know their worst mu's. I expect alot of zoo, so I have one of wrath,damnation and doj to guarantee one board sweep. Also I am using snapback, because it is 2cmc in case chalice for 1 after merit leige.
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The darkest reaches of my soul are riddled with self doubt.
1-Copy effects
2-Control changing effects
3-Text changing effects
4-Type changing effects
5-Color changing effects
6-Giving/Taking Abilities
7a-*/* setting effects
7b-All effects not described in other layer 6 effects
7c-Counters
7d-Static abilities that don't set P/T (Crusade effects)
7e-Switching P/T
What about the ever-popular Leyline of the Void? It seems broadly useful against the current field—all-star vs Dredge, shuts down Punishing Fire recursion, Thopter Foundry, and Martyr of Sands, and keeps enemy goyfs and especially Knights of the Reliquary smaller.
We have Extirpate to shutdown Dread Return. That turns their deck from the fast synergystic masterpeice of Dredge into a slow Aggro decks with easily stolen creatures. I don't think 2 Extirpate are enough tough.
It isn't all that great. It can kill early threats in a Aggro deck, but then they go from super efficient spot removal to "
no" when they start dropping Tarmogoyf and Knight of the Relinquiry. The only time you could kill one of the Landfall creatures with it is during your own turn, since on your opponents turn they will crack a Fetch and power through. I think the Punishing Grove has a bit more appeal.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Still a pretty rough list but I think it is something to start with. Let's see what we can get going.
EDIT: Some explanations: I'm honestly not incredibly fond of Lightning Bolts in the meta right now, but they are great for picking off Nacatls early to save you some life until you draw a sweeper. I don't think Spell Snare is that great right now to be honest. Most decks are packing cards you would like to counter like KotR, Vendilion Clique, and Cascade Spells, but Spell Snare can't counter them. Condescend is there to take it's place. A lot of tapping out is going on in the format right now and both Mana Leak and Condescend will be hard counters a lot of the time. Not to mention mid-late game it gives you something to do with all those Mountains. I am pretty sure the Earthquake/Firespout split is not correct, but I am not sure which is better right now. I am leaning towards Earthquake since Spout doesn't hit KotR or Goyf. I'm not too happy about Magus of the Moon, but I feel like I definitely want to be drawing a Blood Moon effect more often than not, so I need more than 4. These numbers in this list will be changing as I test and fine-tune it more.
Cards for consideration: Vedalken Shackles - I feel like it could be pretty solid in this list and I would like to try to make some room for it. We run quite a few basic Islands so turning it on won't be horribly difficult.
Jace Balaren - I would like to try fitting in a couple Jace if at all possible, as we could use another Draw engine. Unfortunately, I'm not sure we will have the room.
I think 1 jace in the board would be pretty good, but only if the mirror is popular and I don't think it really will be personally... Sideboard spots are very precious right now honestly...
Absolutely. Like I said unfortunately I don't think we have room for him in this 75 as he would be pretty solid in this list. There are too many combo decks to fight at the moment which leaves very little space in the sideboard as it is.
As for the Deathmark/Flashfreeze, it really depends. If you are expecting a lot of Baneslayer Angels, I would go with the Deathmark. If you are expecting more burn, I would go with Flashfreeze. Flashfreeze gets Goyf, KotR, Nacatl, Punishing Fire, and Lightning Bolt. Deathmark gets Goyf, KotR, Nacatl, and Baneslayer Angel. So like I said, it really depends on the presence of Baneslayer, which I feel might be pretty heavy. Of course if you're not playing black, this is all pretty moot.
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I think a split of 2 freeze and 2 deathmark would be very good... That's what I'm gonna do.
I just hope burn.dec isn't so popular... Cause idk how to fit cop:red in.
It could be.
Now that combo is running rampant, the environment is going to evolve into more a control-oreinted meta, which is when fast aggro decks really shine. MRB seemed to do at least okay at the PT. Mogg Fanatic seems good right now, etc...
All I am saying is that I think, and have admitted at this point, that the NLU lists are going to be the way to go. You have good game against aggro whilst being able to have counter/disruption necessary to combat combo...
Has any one here thought of running Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir as maybe a 2-of? It is a good way to slow down Punishing Fire Zoo and such.
I was running mono U faerie deck and found it's very much inferior to Naya Zoo so I switched to UW which I believe having more chance. Here is my deck list.
Still a pretty rough list but I think it is something to start with. Let's see what we can get going.
EDIT: Some explanations: I'm honestly not incredibly fond of Lightning Bolts in the meta right now, but they are great for picking off Nacatls early to save you some life until you draw a sweeper. I don't think Spell Snare is that great right now to be honest. Most decks are packing cards you would like to counter like KotR, Vendilion Clique, and Cascade Spells, but Spell Snare can't counter them. Condescend is there to take it's place. A lot of tapping out is going on in the format right now and both Mana Leak and Condescend will be hard counters a lot of the time. Not to mention mid-late game it gives you something to do with all those Mountains. I am pretty sure the Earthquake/Firespout split is not correct, but I am not sure which is better right now. I am leaning towards Earthquake since Spout doesn't hit KotR or Goyf. I'm not too happy about Magus of the Moon, but I feel like I definitely want to be drawing a Blood Moon effect more often than not, so I need more than 4. These numbers in this list will be changing as I test and fine-tune it more.
Cards for consideration: Vedalken Shackles - I feel like it could be pretty solid in this list and I would like to try to make some room for it. We run quite a few basic Islands so turning it on won't be horribly difficult.
Jace Balaren - I would like to try fitting in a couple Jace if at all possible, as we could use another Draw engine. Unfortunately, I'm not sure we will have the room.
I've been thinking about this idea for a while as well because I feel moon effects + counters can basically beat any extended deck. Here's my list:
Lightning Axe is my attempt to deal with the "No PTE" isssue. I feel R/U has more options for dealing with big creatures the people give it credit for. Spitebellows , Skred or Echoing Truth could also be promising
Skred might not be bad, but it requires a significant investment on Snow-Covered lands. Since there's no R/U snow dual land, you're looking at a lot of basics, which is fine in a strict R/U build (4x Tarns, 4x Steam Vents, 16+ snow-covered Islands/Mountains) But it seems to me that it's worthwhile, given the absurd availability of colorless mana fixing in Extended, not to at least splash other colors. For instance, add a couple Arid Mesas and one or two Hallowed Fountains/Sacred Foundries, and you've got a decent, reliable W splash. The same with a couple Breeding Pools/Stomping Grounds and Misty Rainforest for a G splash.
If we're talking optimal build here, I think splashing White (even if the final build goes Black or whatever) is not too difficult for such a powerful card as Path to Exile, among others.
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Blue players turnin yellow all of a sudden? Punishing FireGrove of the Burnwillows hurts but the Faeries aren't completely reduced to nothingness. Vendillion Clique and Spellstutter Sprite are still useful. And while I admit Sower of Temptation has ALWAYS had the target on its head its still a relevant board option if nothing else...so why not find a way around this new red threat? Im all for testing Boom//Bust or Ghost Quarter in some builds of the deck, but its not all a loss yet is it? am I wrong in the assumption that people are giving up a 3/1 with evasion and a 1/1 counter?
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
Blue players turnin yellow all of a sudden? Punishing FireGrove of the Burnwillows hurts but the Faeries aren't completely reduced to nothingness. Vendillion Clique and Spellstutter Sprite are still useful. And while I admit Sower of Temptation has ALWAYS had the target on its head its still a relevant board option if nothing else...so why not find a way around this new red threat? Im all for testing Boom//Bust or Ghost Quarter in some builds of the deck, but its not all a loss yet is it? am I wrong in the assumption that people are giving up a 3/1 with evasion and a 1/1 counter?
Well it is pretty much agreed on that NLU > Faeries at this point. Because of this, most of these lists aren't running Mutavaults. Without Mutavaults, Spellstutter is pretty underwhelming. Especially in a format where the things you want to counter are going to cost 3. Vendilion Clique is still good and should be played as a 3/1 with evasion and disruption is always going to be good.
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Skred might not be bad, but it requires a significant investment on Snow-Covered lands. Since there's no R/U snow dual land, you're looking at a lot of basics, which is fine in a strict R/U build (4x Tarns, 4x Steam Vents, 16+ snow-covered Islands/Mountains) But it seems to me that it's worthwhile, given the absurd availability of colorless mana fixing in Extended, not to at least splash other colors. For instance, add a couple Arid Mesas and one or two Hallowed Fountains/Sacred Foundries, and you've got a decent, reliable W splash. The same with a couple Breeding Pools/Stomping Grounds and Misty Rainforest for a G splash.
If we're talking optimal build here, I think splashing White (even if the final build goes Black or whatever) is not too difficult for such a powerful card as Path to Exile, among others.
Well if we are talking about the Blood Moon list, then we aren't splashing white. Multiple splashes + Blood Moon is not what I like to call great synergy. If you're not running this Blood Moon list then I would definitely be running White for Path to Exile and potentially Baneslayer Angel. But I really think that Blood Moon is what this deck needs to compete right now. It is certainly a big change for the deck and it's pretty far from what it has been, but it's what it needs. It is too bad we couldn't make some room for Spirit Guides or Rites to power out a T1 Blood Moon, but who knows, maybe we can? I will continue to check things out.
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I remember last season, people ran like 20 counters a deck, is that still an advisable number?
oh and chrome mox seems flat out useless
skred should be here i think, its a good way for UR to answer baneslayer
Lightning Bolt is in my list. And 20 counters is far too many. I can't even think of 20 counters that are worth playing. Chrome Mox is very far from useless. It allows you to power out a Turn 2 Moon or V Clique, as well as works with TfK. I agree that Skred could have a place though.
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Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
20 counters, as seen last season:
4 Spellstutter Sprite - Relatively weak without Mutavault, which NLU doesn't run
4 Spell Snare - Losing power as a lot of the key cards in extended cost 3 or <2.
4 Mana Leak/Rune Snag - Solid.
4 Remand - With everything being so cheap, this is pretty underwhelming.
4 Cryptic Comand - Too slow with all the combo decks running around.
I think kraken hatchling is underrated and has a definate spot in this deck. nothing in zoo but a late game goyf kills it
Kraken Hatchling will NEVER be in this deck. I am sorry but I will never be wasting any slots on a vanilla 0/4. There are much better things to be doing in Extended.
Also check my notes in the quote for those counterspells.
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- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Yes. No deck can even really deal with him besides Martyr and Rock, meaning you will usually be winning less than 4 turns after playing him no matter what.
My List
I am working on something kinda like this. Does anyone know their worst mu's. I expect alot of zoo, so I have one of wrath,damnation and doj to guarantee one board sweep. Also I am using snapback, because it is 2cmc in case chalice for 1 after merit leige.
2-Control changing effects
3-Text changing effects
4-Type changing effects
5-Color changing effects
6-Giving/Taking Abilities
7a-*/* setting effects
7b-All effects not described in other layer 6 effects
7c-Counters
7d-Static abilities that don't set P/T (Crusade effects)
7e-Switching P/T
We have Extirpate to shutdown Dread Return. That turns their deck from the fast synergystic masterpeice of Dredge into a slow Aggro decks with easily stolen creatures. I don't think 2 Extirpate are enough tough.
It isn't all that great. It can kill early threats in a Aggro deck, but then they go from super efficient spot removal to "
no" when they start dropping Tarmogoyf and Knight of the Relinquiry. The only time you could kill one of the Landfall creatures with it is during your own turn, since on your opponents turn they will crack a Fetch and power through. I think the Punishing Grove has a bit more appeal.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Steam Vents
13 Island
Creatures
4 Vendilion Clique
3 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
2 Magus of the Moon
Spells
4 Chrome Mox
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Blood Moon
4 Mana Leak
3 Condescend
3 Earthquake
2 Firespout
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Banefire
Still a pretty rough list but I think it is something to start with. Let's see what we can get going.
EDIT: Some explanations: I'm honestly not incredibly fond of Lightning Bolts in the meta right now, but they are great for picking off Nacatls early to save you some life until you draw a sweeper. I don't think Spell Snare is that great right now to be honest. Most decks are packing cards you would like to counter like KotR, Vendilion Clique, and Cascade Spells, but Spell Snare can't counter them. Condescend is there to take it's place. A lot of tapping out is going on in the format right now and both Mana Leak and Condescend will be hard counters a lot of the time. Not to mention mid-late game it gives you something to do with all those Mountains. I am pretty sure the Earthquake/Firespout split is not correct, but I am not sure which is better right now. I am leaning towards Earthquake since Spout doesn't hit KotR or Goyf. I'm not too happy about Magus of the Moon, but I feel like I definitely want to be drawing a Blood Moon effect more often than not, so I need more than 4. These numbers in this list will be changing as I test and fine-tune it more.
Cards for consideration:
Vedalken Shackles - I feel like it could be pretty solid in this list and I would like to try to make some room for it. We run quite a few basic Islands so turning it on won't be horribly difficult.
Jace Balaren - I would like to try fitting in a couple Jace if at all possible, as we could use another Draw engine. Unfortunately, I'm not sure we will have the room.
My List
Absolutely. Like I said unfortunately I don't think we have room for him in this 75 as he would be pretty solid in this list. There are too many combo decks to fight at the moment which leaves very little space in the sideboard as it is.
As for the Deathmark/Flashfreeze, it really depends. If you are expecting a lot of Baneslayer Angels, I would go with the Deathmark. If you are expecting more burn, I would go with Flashfreeze. Flashfreeze gets Goyf, KotR, Nacatl, Punishing Fire, and Lightning Bolt. Deathmark gets Goyf, KotR, Nacatl, and Baneslayer Angel. So like I said, it really depends on the presence of Baneslayer, which I feel might be pretty heavy. Of course if you're not playing black, this is all pretty moot.
My List
It could be.
Now that combo is running rampant, the environment is going to evolve into more a control-oreinted meta, which is when fast aggro decks really shine. MRB seemed to do at least okay at the PT. Mogg Fanatic seems good right now, etc...
All I am saying is that I think, and have admitted at this point, that the NLU lists are going to be the way to go. You have good game against aggro whilst being able to have counter/disruption necessary to combat combo...
Has any one here thought of running Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir as maybe a 2-of? It is a good way to slow down Punishing Fire Zoo and such.
1 Academy Ruins
1 Ancient Den
1 Breeding Pool
4 Glacial Fortress
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Plains
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
Artifacts
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Dispeller's Capsule
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Trinket Mage
4 Wall of Denial
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Enchantment
2 Worship
Spells
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Path to Exile
4 Mana Leak
4 Condescend
4 Repeal
3 Circle of Protection: Red
3 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Meddling Mage
4 Trickbind
1 Feldon's Cane
1 Chalice of the Void
I played test a few and feel it's pretty decent. Any suggestion's welcome.
I've been thinking about this idea for a while as well because I feel moon effects + counters can basically beat any extended deck. Here's my list:
14x Island
Lightning Axe is my attempt to deal with the "No PTE" isssue. I feel R/U has more options for dealing with big creatures the people give it credit for. Spitebellows , Skred or Echoing Truth could also be promising
Skred might not be bad, but it requires a significant investment on Snow-Covered lands. Since there's no R/U snow dual land, you're looking at a lot of basics, which is fine in a strict R/U build (4x Tarns, 4x Steam Vents, 16+ snow-covered Islands/Mountains) But it seems to me that it's worthwhile, given the absurd availability of colorless mana fixing in Extended, not to at least splash other colors. For instance, add a couple Arid Mesas and one or two Hallowed Fountains/Sacred Foundries, and you've got a decent, reliable W splash. The same with a couple Breeding Pools/Stomping Grounds and Misty Rainforest for a G splash.
If we're talking optimal build here, I think splashing White (even if the final build goes Black or whatever) is not too difficult for such a powerful card as Path to Exile, among others.
Avatar courtesy of the wondermous Lord Tirian.
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
Well it is pretty much agreed on that NLU > Faeries at this point. Because of this, most of these lists aren't running Mutavaults. Without Mutavaults, Spellstutter is pretty underwhelming. Especially in a format where the things you want to counter are going to cost 3. Vendilion Clique is still good and should be played as a 3/1 with evasion and disruption is always going to be good.
My List
Well if we are talking about the Blood Moon list, then we aren't splashing white. Multiple splashes + Blood Moon is not what I like to call great synergy. If you're not running this Blood Moon list then I would definitely be running White for Path to Exile and potentially Baneslayer Angel. But I really think that Blood Moon is what this deck needs to compete right now. It is certainly a big change for the deck and it's pretty far from what it has been, but it's what it needs. It is too bad we couldn't make some room for Spirit Guides or Rites to power out a T1 Blood Moon, but who knows, maybe we can? I will continue to check things out.
My List
seems like an obvious inclusion to me
I remember last season, people ran like 20 counters a deck, is that still an advisable number?
oh and chrome mox seems flat out useless
skred should be here i think, its a good way for UR to answer baneslayer
Lightning Bolt is in my list. And 20 counters is far too many. I can't even think of 20 counters that are worth playing. Chrome Mox is very far from useless. It allows you to power out a Turn 2 Moon or V Clique, as well as works with TfK. I agree that Skred could have a place though.
My List
4 Spell Snare
4 Mana Leak/Rune Snag
4 Remand
4 Cryptic Comand
I think kraken hatchling is underrated and has a definate spot in this deck. nothing in zoo but a late game goyf kills it
Where did you see these 20 counterspell lists? East Bumble ****?
Is it just me or is a NLU-esque list, no mutavaults or spellstutter sprites, testing better than a Fae style list?
Modern:
Something new every week
Legacy:
Something new everyweek
You know those lists are from October 2008?
Modern:
Something new every week
Legacy:
Something new everyweek
Kraken Hatchling will NEVER be in this deck. I am sorry but I will never be wasting any slots on a vanilla 0/4. There are much better things to be doing in Extended.
Also check my notes in the quote for those counterspells.
My List
Creatures
3 Vendillion Clique
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Baneslayer Angel
Spells
2 Cryptic Command
1 Day of Judgment
1 Wrath of God
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Firespout
1 Life from the Loam
3 Path to Exile
3 Punishing Fire
2 Spell Snare
3 Spell Pierce
3 Gifts Ungiven
4 Mana Leak
Any and all comments are welcome
Type 2: UBControlBW
Extended: UWBGControlGBWU
Legacy:UWRGContolUWRG
Vintage: UWG Poorman Aggro UWG