I had decided 2 go with Doran in EXT because it was always formitable and lost pretty much nothing after rotation. After playing it a few times i decided it needed 2 pack a bigger punch (enter Rafiq and War Monk). The deck has a realy good balance of aggro and control. Enough removal to take care of what my fat creatures cant, and of couse fat creaturs 2 pound your face away. Anyway let me know what u think.
Card Choices Tarmogoyf : Goyf will always be at least as big as you opponents goyf. I have read several articals, heard from many ppl, and experianced myself that the last person with a goyf in play is normaly the winner. Rafiq of the Many : It has exalted and the ability to give my exalted creature double strike. Allows Doran to swing for up to 14 on 3rd turn, and allows War Monk to swing for up to 10 with lifelink on third turn. Also when a creature attacks with a Jitte and deals double strike damage, the Jitte will get double counters. It can also act as a sorcery speed kill vs an opposing Rafiq. Doran, the Siege Tower : A turn 2-3 5/5.Allows Goyf, War Monk, Birds, and Noble 2 deal 1 more damage that normal. It can also act as a sorcery speed kill vs and opposing Doran. Rhox War Monk : It is a 3/4 which will normaly takes two burn spells to kill. Its acts as a perfect attacker/blocker vs alot of the more popular creatures e.g. Wild Nacatl, Vendilion Clique, all "manlands". It also has Lifelink, which this deck needs pretty heavily thanks to the shock lands, Thoughtseize, and upcomming fetch lands. Tidehollow Sculler : Hand disruption, a huge target so that they can get the peices of their hand back, leaving my other creatures alone. It is also a artifact in addition to a creature, giving Goyf at least +2/+2 on its own while its in the G.Y. Noble Hierarch : Mana ramp plus exalted. Birds of Paradise : Mana ramp, produces any color i need as opposed Noble which only produces 3 colors. It also has Flying if i need to swing over your creatures with Jitte counters or exalted. Umezawa's Jitte : Ability to neg creatures, buff equiped creature, or gain life at instant speed. Gains double counters when equiped creature deals double strike damage. Also acts as a sorcery speed kill vs an opposing Jitte. Path to Exile : Instant speed creature removal, that is RFG so cant be recured from the G.Y. Able 2 git rid of indestructible creatures. Bant Charm : Instant speed artifact or creature removal. The creature goes to the bottom of its owners library, so it cannot be recured from the G.Y. Also has the ability to counter an instant spell. Putrefy : Instant speed creature or artifact kill. Thoughtseize : Fist turn hand disruption. It can get anything but a land. It has the ability to stop a combo deck in its tracks. Maelstrom Pulse : A sorcery speed kill anything i please except land and everything with the same name. Perfect against mass tokens.
The S/B is a bit scetchy at the moment seeing as how there is no current meta-game for EXT post rotation. But this is it as i try 2 play it safe.
I am playing Doran deck too. I think adding U to Doran deck is just useless. In my oppinion if you want play UGW, play Bant instead.
i kind like the idea of a third turn rafiq, which allows doran 2 swing for 12-14 on third turn which isnt too shabby.
As far as the war monk is concerned the shock lands, thoughtseize, and upcomming sac lands is alot of damage. Which zoo, red deck wins, or any other deck of the sort will just eat up. the war monk is dificult to kill since it is a 3/4, and i have found to be much more reliable for life gain than finks, espeacialy when coupled with a turn 3 rafiq. Gaining 8-10 life every turn starting on turn 3 is hard 2 deal with.
I would play Bant but Bant just doesnt have the "Teeth" that doran can offer, so why not have the best of both worlds? With the sac lands it will b easy 2 smooth out the mana base. And like i said the S/B is scetchy, and blue offers alot of S/B answers. Which will be a good option when the post rotation meta-game rears its head.
I liked the idea of the sword but the more i play the deck the more intances i wished it was a jitte, so i will prob switch those out pretty soon.
these are just my personal thoughts on it. I've played both varients, and was much more satisfied with the blue splash.
ive been contemplating the use of bant charm for a while. i decided last night 2 put it in which i should have decided long ago. i took out the duress, 2 witness, and a pulse for a playset. i have changed the deck list above, as well as the jitte.
And of course the conditions i mentioned earlier were a big "IF" however drawing a rafiq or a war monk at anytime is almost never a dead draw (my opinion). but when it does happen its nice.
A well placed path will ruin any creature, not just rafiq.
The war monk is good because it takes 2 burn spells 2 kill, just aswell as finks, and i find that it will usualy gain me at least 6 life if not more, as opposed 2 finks which will get me only 4.
niether of the decks (doran/dark bant) had high numbers last year but of the two, dark bant had a good deal more placing in top 8's. Doran lost alot of its power when deed cycled, thus the deck needs 2 evolve.... Dark Bant? (again, my opinion)
The sideboard isnt only limited 2 mage, there are tons of things i could put in. if tokens get popular, echoing truth. if combo e.g. nauseum, elfball, gets popular i can sb mindlock trap. there are tons of possibilities with blue. also teeg does nothing against hypergenesis.
Anyway if u (Drakkan) happen 2 look at this again, i appretiate the critisizm and i would actualy like if u left more. it lets me look at the deck in a new light.
Rafiq is not good enough for Extended.
RWM is an absolute beast and should never be cut.
Run 4x, not 2x or 3x.
You have better lands available than what you are playing.
I made the card choices a little more clear if u would like to scroll up and read them. i would like 2 hear ur what u think about them now that u know why i chose them.
The Treetop Village would be a good addition to the deck but i cant make space for them untill the sac lands drop. They will also help smooth out the mana base.
I understand your veiw on pulse but it hasent hurt me yet. And more often then not i wished i had it in my hand for various reasons.
also my openion on goyf is pretty much explained in the card choices. its $30-40 for a reason and i will exploit it as much as i can.
and in response to CorpT, the only Dark Bant that took first in any PTQ last season was the 1 running rafiq and almost all the bant aggro ran rafiq and several of those took first.
Also i like the idea of a 4th war monk but the deck is pretty tight and im not sure what i would cut for it.
and in response to CorpT, the only Dark Bant that took first in any PTQ last season was the 1 running rafiq and almost all the bant aggro ran rafiq and several of those took first.
Also i like the idea of a 4th war monk but the deck is pretty tight and im not sure what i would cut for it.
Exactly one deck that made deckcheck ran Rafiq last season. 1. Of 77 Bant Aggro decks, 1 ran Rafiq. I tested Rafiq for quite awhile and it did not work.
If you want to run it, go ahead, but it definitely makes your deck weaker.
I played a lot of Bant last season and the reason it won was because of amazing 2nd turn 3 drops. Eternal Witness is not an amazing 3 drop. I would definitely cut Engineered Explosive as well. You're an aggro deck, not a control deck.
Path and Bant Charm are the only removal you need in the MD.
Never take out Goyf, especially in Doran where he is even better. He is the best 2 drop and is good in both the early and late game. He's not just a useless body. He's a body that sits there and lets the opponent know that whatever cards they play, or creatures they have that die, or anything else that goes to the graveyard may increase the size of this guy. He also makes the T1 - Fetchland, Thoughtseize, T2 - Goyf play nice.
ok say i were to take out refiq (which is not final, i just want 2 play test around) which of these would u replace him with Ohran Viper Deathtouch, draw engine, possible 3/3 Troll Ascetic Troll shroud, Regeneration, nice creature for jitte Vendilion Clique Hand disruption, Flying, but a possible 1/1, and take UU which is my weak color Sower of Temptation 2 creatures for 1, Flying, but also takes UU
Also on the pulse note, i looked up some older builds of Doran last night and saw that ppl where using Vindicate along with Putrify and Smother which vindicate is a sorcery aswell (as opposed 2 my pulse, path, and charm) Ok so vendicate can kill a land, big deal. im using path which gives them land, i realy dont care about killing a land that zoo doesnt need. pulse can kill 100 relentless rats (bad example) a better example would be 2 sower of temptation, or 4 wild nacatl, the point is it can take care of multiple creatures at once.
... it was seriously amazing. if you moxed on turn 2 u could vindicate and if you had more than 1 bam bam. or you could witness it back. it may seem bad, but it was ridiculous. also why doesnt any1 like pulse its an amazing card. yes instant speed is important but you will likely play putrefy before you play mortify. but what if theyre playing mwc? it basically turns out to be an overcosted 3 cmc kill target creature. and unless youre playing pride mage it will be rather irritating. its always better to have more answers rather than bad threats. and this deck has very good threats. i havent tried playing doran post rotation but ivebeen playing cloudless rock. all i can say is that pulse has phenominal.
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P.S im sorry that this "wall" of text is very scary and menacing but i believe you can do it the lack of gramer and punctuation is because i have a blood fued with it due to the fact when i was four and the teacher said i would die poor and lonely and the kids would dance on my grave when i died because i could not correctly punctuate with commas
All you need to do right now is streamline the deck a bit more. Have you tested against any of the more popular decks going into the next season? Like Hypergenesis and Thopter Control?
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
the main deck vs hypergenesis is about 50/50 after s/b its about 80/20. i havent tested against thopter control, i would like to. i slaughter affinity. faeries is a tough game but i can usualy out last them (thanx 2 riptide cycling out), everthing in my deck is a threat and needs to be taken care of, there is almost no "i can play around it". i have enough control in my deck 2 destroy most any version of rock cause they normaly run low amounts of creatures. and my creature are normaly just too big for zoo 2 deal with and i can play them with almost as much speed as zoo. i havent realy come across to many problems (aside from faeries). but then again, who knows what will show its face in the top 8s of the first few PTQ's this upcomming season.
I dont think Hzpergenesis is 50/50, in majority cases first game is in my oppinion 70/30 for genesis. Second game is not much better, if you are not playing extra counters in SB. The only thing how you can disable genesis is discard in first/second turn, or counter with Charm later. If you do not have these, you have lost 80% of the time in my oppinion.
The question is - what to play in SB against it ?
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Rafiq of the Many
3x Doran, the Siege Tower
4x Rhox War Monk
4x Tidehollow Sculler
3x Noble Hierarch
3x Birds of Paradise
Instant
4x Path to Exile
3x Bant Charm
1x Putrefy
2x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Thoughtseize
Artifact
3x Umezawa's Jitte
Land
2x Temple Garden
1x Breeding Pool
1x Godless Shrine
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Watery Grave
1x Hallowed Fountain
3x Misty Rainforest
3x Marsh Flats
1x Murmuring Bosk
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Treetop Village
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Swamp
1x Island
Card Choices
Tarmogoyf : Goyf will always be at least as big as you opponents goyf. I have read several articals, heard from many ppl, and experianced myself that the last person with a goyf in play is normaly the winner.
Rafiq of the Many : It has exalted and the ability to give my exalted creature double strike. Allows Doran to swing for up to 14 on 3rd turn, and allows War Monk to swing for up to 10 with lifelink on third turn. Also when a creature attacks with a Jitte and deals double strike damage, the Jitte will get double counters. It can also act as a sorcery speed kill vs an opposing Rafiq.
Doran, the Siege Tower : A turn 2-3 5/5.Allows Goyf, War Monk, Birds, and Noble 2 deal 1 more damage that normal. It can also act as a sorcery speed kill vs and opposing Doran.
Rhox War Monk : It is a 3/4 which will normaly takes two burn spells to kill. Its acts as a perfect attacker/blocker vs alot of the more popular creatures e.g. Wild Nacatl, Vendilion Clique, all "manlands". It also has Lifelink, which this deck needs pretty heavily thanks to the shock lands, Thoughtseize, and upcomming fetch lands.
Tidehollow Sculler : Hand disruption, a huge target so that they can get the peices of their hand back, leaving my other creatures alone. It is also a artifact in addition to a creature, giving Goyf at least +2/+2 on its own while its in the G.Y.
Noble Hierarch : Mana ramp plus exalted.
Birds of Paradise : Mana ramp, produces any color i need as opposed Noble which only produces 3 colors. It also has Flying if i need to swing over your creatures with Jitte counters or exalted.
Umezawa's Jitte : Ability to neg creatures, buff equiped creature, or gain life at instant speed. Gains double counters when equiped creature deals double strike damage. Also acts as a sorcery speed kill vs an opposing Jitte.
Path to Exile : Instant speed creature removal, that is RFG so cant be recured from the G.Y. Able 2 git rid of indestructible creatures.
Bant Charm : Instant speed artifact or creature removal. The creature goes to the bottom of its owners library, so it cannot be recured from the G.Y. Also has the ability to counter an instant spell.
Putrefy : Instant speed creature or artifact kill.
Thoughtseize : Fist turn hand disruption. It can get anything but a land. It has the ability to stop a combo deck in its tracks.
Maelstrom Pulse : A sorcery speed kill anything i please except land and everything with the same name. Perfect against mass tokens.
The S/B is a bit scetchy at the moment seeing as how there is no current meta-game for EXT post rotation. But this is it as i try 2 play it safe.
3x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Engineered Explosives
3x Chalice of the Void
3x Pithing Needle
So, there it is. Lmk what u think, leave your feedback, thoughts, and why u think im stupid lol.
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Punishing Depths :symg::symu::symr:
Faithless Dredge :symb::symu::symr::symw::symg:
As far as the war monk is concerned the shock lands, thoughtseize, and upcomming sac lands is alot of damage. Which zoo, red deck wins, or any other deck of the sort will just eat up. the war monk is dificult to kill since it is a 3/4, and i have found to be much more reliable for life gain than finks, espeacialy when coupled with a turn 3 rafiq. Gaining 8-10 life every turn starting on turn 3 is hard 2 deal with.
I would play Bant but Bant just doesnt have the "Teeth" that doran can offer, so why not have the best of both worlds? With the sac lands it will b easy 2 smooth out the mana base. And like i said the S/B is scetchy, and blue offers alot of S/B answers. Which will be a good option when the post rotation meta-game rears its head.
I liked the idea of the sword but the more i play the deck the more intances i wished it was a jitte, so i will prob switch those out pretty soon.
these are just my personal thoughts on it. I've played both varients, and was much more satisfied with the blue splash.
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Punishing Depths :symg::symu::symr:
Faithless Dredge :symb::symu::symr::symw::symg:
And of course the conditions i mentioned earlier were a big "IF" however drawing a rafiq or a war monk at anytime is almost never a dead draw (my opinion). but when it does happen its nice.
A well placed path will ruin any creature, not just rafiq.
The war monk is good because it takes 2 burn spells 2 kill, just aswell as finks, and i find that it will usualy gain me at least 6 life if not more, as opposed 2 finks which will get me only 4.
niether of the decks (doran/dark bant) had high numbers last year but of the two, dark bant had a good deal more placing in top 8's. Doran lost alot of its power when deed cycled, thus the deck needs 2 evolve.... Dark Bant? (again, my opinion)
The sideboard isnt only limited 2 mage, there are tons of things i could put in. if tokens get popular, echoing truth. if combo e.g. nauseum, elfball, gets popular i can sb mindlock trap. there are tons of possibilities with blue. also teeg does nothing against hypergenesis.
Anyway if u (Drakkan) happen 2 look at this again, i appretiate the critisizm and i would actualy like if u left more. it lets me look at the deck in a new light.
Sales
Legacy
Punishing Depths :symg::symu::symr:
Faithless Dredge :symb::symu::symr::symw::symg:
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=24219
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=24864
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=24479
Rafiq is not good enough for Extended.
RWM is an absolute beast and should never be cut.
Run 4x, not 2x or 3x.
You have better lands available than what you are playing.
The Treetop Village would be a good addition to the deck but i cant make space for them untill the sac lands drop. They will also help smooth out the mana base.
I understand your veiw on pulse but it hasent hurt me yet. And more often then not i wished i had it in my hand for various reasons.
also my openion on goyf is pretty much explained in the card choices. its $30-40 for a reason and i will exploit it as much as i can.
and in response to CorpT, the only Dark Bant that took first in any PTQ last season was the 1 running rafiq and almost all the bant aggro ran rafiq and several of those took first.
Also i like the idea of a 4th war monk but the deck is pretty tight and im not sure what i would cut for it.
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Punishing Depths :symg::symu::symr:
Faithless Dredge :symb::symu::symr::symw::symg:
Exactly one deck that made deckcheck ran Rafiq last season. 1. Of 77 Bant Aggro decks, 1 ran Rafiq. I tested Rafiq for quite awhile and it did not work.
If you want to run it, go ahead, but it definitely makes your deck weaker.
I played a lot of Bant last season and the reason it won was because of amazing 2nd turn 3 drops. Eternal Witness is not an amazing 3 drop. I would definitely cut Engineered Explosive as well. You're an aggro deck, not a control deck.
Never take out Goyf, especially in Doran where he is even better. He is the best 2 drop and is good in both the early and late game. He's not just a useless body. He's a body that sits there and lets the opponent know that whatever cards they play, or creatures they have that die, or anything else that goes to the graveyard may increase the size of this guy. He also makes the T1 - Fetchland, Thoughtseize, T2 - Goyf play nice.
Ohran Viper Deathtouch, draw engine, possible 3/3
Troll Ascetic Troll shroud, Regeneration, nice creature for jitte
Vendilion Clique Hand disruption, Flying, but a possible 1/1, and take UU which is my weak color
Sower of Temptation 2 creatures for 1, Flying, but also takes UU
Also on the pulse note, i looked up some older builds of Doran last night and saw that ppl where using Vindicate along with Putrify and Smother which vindicate is a sorcery aswell (as opposed 2 my pulse, path, and charm) Ok so vendicate can kill a land, big deal. im using path which gives them land, i realy dont care about killing a land that zoo doesnt need. pulse can kill 100 relentless rats (bad example) a better example would be 2 sower of temptation, or 4 wild nacatl, the point is it can take care of multiple creatures at once.
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Punishing Depths :symg::symu::symr:
Faithless Dredge :symb::symu::symr::symw::symg:
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Punishing Depths :symg::symu::symr:
Faithless Dredge :symb::symu::symr::symw::symg:
... it was seriously amazing. if you moxed on turn 2 u could vindicate and if you had more than 1 bam bam. or you could witness it back. it may seem bad, but it was ridiculous. also why doesnt any1 like pulse its an amazing card. yes instant speed is important but you will likely play putrefy before you play mortify. but what if theyre playing mwc? it basically turns out to be an overcosted 3 cmc kill target creature. and unless youre playing pride mage it will be rather irritating. its always better to have more answers rather than bad threats. and this deck has very good threats. i havent tried playing doran post rotation but ivebeen playing cloudless rock. all i can say is that pulse has phenominal.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
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Punishing Depths :symg::symu::symr:
Faithless Dredge :symb::symu::symr::symw::symg:
Chalice of the Void and maybe Meddling Mage.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Mana Leak
Duress
Thoughtseize
Vendillion Clique
Sideboard:
Chalice of the Void
Meddling Mage
Ethersworn Canonist
Rule of Law
I am not sure if the deck should be running counterspells.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
You also think Kitchen Finks should be played in Hypergenesis. I'm not sure I should listen to anything you say.
The Dark Bant concept is interesting, but wouldn't it be just as easy to go full Domain?
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.