My first 3 RoE drafts were all very largely affected by this guy, whether on my side or my opponents'. Lately, I haven't seen him(her?) do anything. I mean, she eats removal pretty quickly, which is a pretty good effect for a 3-drop, but it's often removal that you get pretty good value out of (Vendetta only does 1 damage, Forked Bolt can hit something else too, Staggershock rebounds, Last Kiss isn't a dead card, Spawning Breath makes you smile, etc.) I can't remember the last time I saw her ability activated.
On the contrary, Gloomhunter seems to always affect the game in a pretty significant way every time I see him, because no one wants to play removal on the guy. He almost always gets in 6 damage while ignoring the ground war, holds air attackers back or trades with them, or trades with an important ground attacker. He's great.
Is this profound, or just kind of the way things work? Are people still getting blown out by DG Invoker? Is part of it that draft decks are actually applying enough pressure now that a card that needs to wait for 8 mana in a color with no ramp is no longer that good, or are people being too protective of DG Invoker in combat, thus lessening it's effectiveness?
I mean, I think the other Invokers are at their best when their base stats create difficulties for the opponent. Dawnglare should be no different.
Dawnglare blew me out for my only loss last night. I was playing U/W control - drafted mostly removal till the end, then I finally got some threats with Frostwind Invokers, and Soulbound Guardians equipped w/ Warmonger's Chariot, but the main players of the deck were 3 Guard Dutys and 3 Narcolepsies.
Game 1 he Invokered me down, although it took a looooong time for him to draw his Vendetta to get rid of my maxed Hedron-Field Purists. He didn't have any creatures above 2 power who weren't Guard Dutied/Narcolepsied, so that game was looking to go to a milling before he killed off the Purists.
Game 2 I added Red to my deck to add Forked Bolt and Lust for War to attempt to deal with the Invoker. I did Bolt the Invoker and a Kor-Line Slinger... but he had enough mana to tap me down before the Invoker died, and he alpha struck next turn.
DG Invoker, and all of the Invokers, are very good against UW because they have few ways of dealing with good creatures that don't have to attack to be good.
Look, if you're relying solely on a 1 toughness creature to win you the game, you built a bad draft deck. But chances are, Dawnglare Invoker is the best 3 drop in your deck. They're still excellent.
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Yes, I think we've said before that he's not something to build a deck around, but he's good to have in there, as he has the potential to lock down a board.
not sure what comparison with gloomhunter is for...that card is a crap playable in many kinds of decks
Totally disagree. In my experience most of the black commons have trouble getting in. They usually hold back ground attackers but that's about it apart from Bloodthrone with support or max leveled levellers. When they attack they often just trade with something that took less of a mana investment. I think throwing up an inexpensive flyer is good for many black decks (or BG/BR).
I mean, sure it's not spectacular, but I think it's often very good, not just a "crap playable".
edit: anyway, the comparison was because Gloomhunter is a worse card with the same base numbers, but lately I've seen it affect games more than Dawnglare - a lot more. Probably just luck I guess. I agree with the assessments of Dawnglare above, esp. about how you can often save your removal against white.
she is a decent card but i think her value might be a bit overrated though. I lost to her when I had clear board advantage - i had couple of critters - artisaned in a crusher and on his turn evoker - attacked me for 3 every turn till i died. Of course she can be used as removal bait but remember though she bogs down alot of mana so she is only decent late game (or you play green with 3 battlements...). So yeah she's good but not THAT good.
White is so weak, that you can save your removal against those decks.
Still occasionally see invoker lock...
This is what I've found. I think earlier in the format, when people didn't realize the ineffectiveness of white, would often burn their removal on other threats and get caught with their pants down, so to speak, when the Dawnglare made its appearance. I know for me, if I see a plains come down on my opponent's side, I immediately begin to plan on seeing the Invoker and how to stop it from going active.
Dawnglare is more often than not a splash card in green-based ramp decks. It's quite good there, too, as it activates much earlier than otherwise.
The U/W deck I prefer is simply a collection of evasive guys and lock auras, so Dawnglare is fine as a flier, if not for its ability. I try to avoid white like the rest of you, but I'd prefer to splash DGI for its late-game power if the option presents itself.
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I don't see what's so confusing about this card. It's in a weak color, so yea you might not see it as often as some other commons. If you get to 8 mana, it's a lock. If it dies, it dies. All toughness based removal kills it. It's efficiently priced. There's really not much to dissect here. All creatures die to some forms of removal, that doesn't make them bad. Individual game results will vary widely from "It died immediately" to "It won me the game when I had no business winning otherwise." Few cards have that kind of upside, most creatures have similar downside.
By the way, if you do lock down a UW deck, you probably shouldn't be attacking with your Invoker because of Puncturing Light. Just a little knowledge bomb for everyone.
Dawnglare invoker is basically a gloomhunter that also has an ability that stops your opponent from doing anything once you hit eight mana. It's a superb creature because if your opponent can't answer it (which happens a fair amount of the time), you win.
Dawnglare invoker is basically a gloomhunter that also has an ability that stops your opponent from doing anything once you hit eight mana. It's a superb creature because if your opponent can't answer it (which happens a fair amount of the time), you win.
I think your level of excitement about dawnglare invoker might be a bit high.
Out of all the Invokers, Dawnglare is the only one that clearly says, "I win if you can't draw an answer soon."
That said, it should be a Plan B card that is in a "good deck" perhaps with Wall of Omens and Overgrown Battlement and maybe some Pelakka Wurms. It's power also gets better if you can put a Umbra on it.
I think it's a bit of a clunker compared to people's hype of the card. It ends up being a Gloomhunter a lot of the time, which we should know by how is really poor. Vanilla creatures don't cut it in this format. However, it does seal up the game hard when you get there.
People are still hating on gloomhunters after all this time? Some decks don't use them, some decks do. 3 mana 2 power evasion is still part of some decks' win condition. Not every ROE deck has inevitability you know (in fact that would be paradoxical)
I think your level of excitement about dawnglare invoker might be a bit high.
with, like, mammoth umbra on him -- then, OK.
First off, as a minor semantic point, I don't get "excited" about cards. If I could somehow make this post more monotone, I would.
I maintain that dawnglare invoker is quite a powerful card, however. It's 3 mana for 2 evasive power and wins the game when you hit 8 mana if your opponent doesn't have an answer.
A white deck that has x2 dawnglare invoker will pick up a lot of incidental wins from dawnglare invoker's ability. If you happen to hit eight mana and your opponent happens to lack an answer to your dawnglare invoker (possibly because of deck color, umbras, or not drawing the card he needs), he's going to lose in short order.
In summary, I consider dawnglare invoker to be a premium creature because it is a respectable 3 mana 2 power evasive creature that has an ability that will randomly win a fair number of games.
That be said, in practice, I try to avoid playing white and, even if white is on color, still take removal over it.
I think it's a bit of a clunker compared to people's hype of the card. It ends up being a Gloomhunter a lot of the time, which we should know by how is really poor. Vanilla creatures don't cut it in this format. However, it does seal up the game hard when you get there.
2 power flyers for 3 are not vanilla in this format. Simple as that.
The times you flat out steal victory from the jaws of defeat with her are quite a treat... you topdeck that 8th land, and boom... game over against many decks.
Dawnglare Invoker is a lot better in Sealed because your opponent sometimes just doesn't have an answer in their pool. In draft you should always try to have some way to deal with it, even something like Leaf Arrow out of the side.
2 power flyers for 3 are not vanilla in this any format. Simple as that.
The times you flat out steal victory from the jaws of defeat with her are quite a treat... you topdeck that 8th land, and boom... game over against many decks.
Fliers can't be vanilla, vanilla creatures have no abilities. At best you could call them french vanilla, but that tends to be for silly abilities, like the Hill Giant cycle from Shadowmoor block, or cliffrunner.
If this forum had Greasers, Phoenix, Commons and Semantics would be the leaders of the gang and every time they commented on something they would do a synchronized finger snap then smoke a cigarette.
The lesson here is the value of splashing red or black removal in decks not playing either of those colors base (usually UW levelers or GW levelers/bombs). You will have time to get to it, and DI is not the only creature that must be removed, not only neutralized. If you don't have the splash, you'd better have Oust/Domestication and hold it for the must-remove targets.
White is weak, people have realized it. That's about all you have to figure out. Invoker is far, far, far above the power curve for a 3 cmc common, but its not enough to save a bad color in the set.
First off, as a minor semantic point, I don't get "excited" about cards. If I could somehow make this post more monotone, I would.
I maintain that dawnglare invoker is quite a powerful card, however. It's 3 mana for 2 evasive power and wins the game when you hit 8 mana if your opponent doesn't have an answer.
A white deck that has x2 dawnglare invoker will pick up a lot of incidental wins from dawnglare invoker's ability. If you happen to hit eight mana and your opponent happens to lack an answer to your dawnglare invoker (possibly because of deck color, umbras, or not drawing the card he needs), he's going to lose in short order.
In summary, I consider dawnglare invoker to be a premium creature because it is a respectable 3 mana 2 power evasive creature that has an ability that will randomly win a fair number of games.
That be said, in practice, I try to avoid playing white and, even if white is on color, still take removal over it.
I guess I basically agree here. 2/1 flyers are good and his ability is pretty solid. Still, most of the good decks aren't going to lose to this.
On the contrary, Gloomhunter seems to always affect the game in a pretty significant way every time I see him, because no one wants to play removal on the guy. He almost always gets in 6 damage while ignoring the ground war, holds air attackers back or trades with them, or trades with an important ground attacker. He's great.
Is this profound, or just kind of the way things work? Are people still getting blown out by DG Invoker? Is part of it that draft decks are actually applying enough pressure now that a card that needs to wait for 8 mana in a color with no ramp is no longer that good, or are people being too protective of DG Invoker in combat, thus lessening it's effectiveness?
I mean, I think the other Invokers are at their best when their base stats create difficulties for the opponent. Dawnglare should be no different.
Game 1 he Invokered me down, although it took a looooong time for him to draw his Vendetta to get rid of my maxed Hedron-Field Purists. He didn't have any creatures above 2 power who weren't Guard Dutied/Narcolepsied, so that game was looking to go to a milling before he killed off the Purists.
Game 2 I added Red to my deck to add Forked Bolt and Lust for War to attempt to deal with the Invoker. I did Bolt the Invoker and a Kor-Line Slinger... but he had enough mana to tap me down before the Invoker died, and he alpha struck next turn.
Next two matches went to me without difficutly.
So yes... it happened to me last night.
Still occasionally see invoker lock...
not sure what comparison with gloomhunter is for...that card is a crap playable in many kinds of decks
Look, if you're relying solely on a 1 toughness creature to win you the game, you built a bad draft deck. But chances are, Dawnglare Invoker is the best 3 drop in your deck. They're still excellent.
But if he's all you got... pray.
Totally disagree. In my experience most of the black commons have trouble getting in. They usually hold back ground attackers but that's about it apart from Bloodthrone with support or max leveled levellers. When they attack they often just trade with something that took less of a mana investment. I think throwing up an inexpensive flyer is good for many black decks (or BG/BR).
I mean, sure it's not spectacular, but I think it's often very good, not just a "crap playable".
edit: anyway, the comparison was because Gloomhunter is a worse card with the same base numbers, but lately I've seen it affect games more than Dawnglare - a lot more. Probably just luck I guess. I agree with the assessments of Dawnglare above, esp. about how you can often save your removal against white.
This is what I've found. I think earlier in the format, when people didn't realize the ineffectiveness of white, would often burn their removal on other threats and get caught with their pants down, so to speak, when the Dawnglare made its appearance. I know for me, if I see a plains come down on my opponent's side, I immediately begin to plan on seeing the Invoker and how to stop it from going active.
The U/W deck I prefer is simply a collection of evasive guys and lock auras, so Dawnglare is fine as a flier, if not for its ability. I try to avoid white like the rest of you, but I'd prefer to splash DGI for its late-game power if the option presents itself.
:dance:Fact or Fiction of the [Limited] Clan:dance:
Still, playing it means you have to be playing plains, and other than when I drafted a gideon, I have always avoided doing so.
Gloomhunter is just an unplayable card to me. It is just so much worse than the null champions and zulaport enforcers of the world..
*DCI Rules Advisor*
By the way, if you do lock down a UW deck, you probably shouldn't be attacking with your Invoker because of Puncturing Light. Just a little knowledge bomb for everyone.
I think your level of excitement about dawnglare invoker might be a bit high.
with, like, mammoth umbra on him -- then, OK.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
That said, it should be a Plan B card that is in a "good deck" perhaps with Wall of Omens and Overgrown Battlement and maybe some Pelakka Wurms. It's power also gets better if you can put a Umbra on it.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=378565
First off, as a minor semantic point, I don't get "excited" about cards. If I could somehow make this post more monotone, I would.
I maintain that dawnglare invoker is quite a powerful card, however. It's 3 mana for 2 evasive power and wins the game when you hit 8 mana if your opponent doesn't have an answer.
A white deck that has x2 dawnglare invoker will pick up a lot of incidental wins from dawnglare invoker's ability. If you happen to hit eight mana and your opponent happens to lack an answer to your dawnglare invoker (possibly because of deck color, umbras, or not drawing the card he needs), he's going to lose in short order.
In summary, I consider dawnglare invoker to be a premium creature because it is a respectable 3 mana 2 power evasive creature that has an ability that will randomly win a fair number of games.
That be said, in practice, I try to avoid playing white and, even if white is on color, still take removal over it.
2 power flyers for 3 are not vanilla in this format. Simple as that.
The times you flat out steal victory from the jaws of defeat with her are quite a treat... you topdeck that 8th land, and boom... game over against many decks.
Fliers can't be vanilla, vanilla creatures have no abilities. At best you could call them french vanilla, but that tends to be for silly abilities, like the Hill Giant cycle from Shadowmoor block, or cliffrunner.
Fliers evade.
Peak rating 1832
Brain Freeze is the coolest card ever printed.
I guess I basically agree here. 2/1 flyers are good and his ability is pretty solid. Still, most of the good decks aren't going to lose to this.
*DCI Rules Advisor*