Has anyone been testing Thundermaw lately? Just curious as to how it's been working out for those of you who have been.
I have been running 2. I had 4, but since reduced that number due to lingering souls not being as prominent. I feel that 2 is the right number at the moment. It's still amazing when you draw it, but not always good against some of the more aggressive strategies.
I don't play Jund*, but it seems like John Cuvelier's (currently in the top 4) list is about as tight, and innovative a list as I've seen, and he has two maindeck Hellkites, in addition to the two maindeck Ground Seals.
Any list that runs Arbor Elfs should consider 1 or 2 copies for the unlikely but potential turn 3 Hellkite.
*I enjoy rooting for Jund. No matter what happens, every SCG Open I've got to listen to the commentators trash it for being a wannabe control deck, while praising Esper, even though Esper never seems to take home the trophy.
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Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
Has anyone been testing Thundermaw lately? Just curious as to how it's been working out for those of you who have been.
I've been running three MD Thundermaws and they've often been the deciding factor against control and Reanimator decks. Against Reanimator, they have very little, outside of AoS, to deal with Thundermaw. Even with an AoS on the table, it's still a free 5 damage.
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Played Jund in a big tournament today. Got smashed by Prime Speaker Bant and Junk . Against junk a ground seal and slaughter games naming angel did nothing to stop the machine. What a horrendous matchup, even with MD shaman.
His deck is extremely Strong. However I'm not convined with the Lilianas, perhaps cut them for 2 Garruks and replace the Thragtusk
He obviously cut one Thragtusk because you can't have too many 5-drops. I think 6 is the right number. Adding 2 Garruks and a Thragtusk would be a horrible idea. The top-curve would become totally bloated. I also don't understand why you are not convinced with LotV. She doesn't even have to convince anyone anymore, she's been a staple for months now.
EDIT: I've played 2 Searing Spears in the MD for ages, but I've finally come to think about cutting them. 3 Damage doesn't seem to be enough in many cases now. I have thought about adding 2 Dreadbores, or maybe a 3rd Mizzium Mortars or 3rd Victim of Night instead of the second Dreadbore. I have a PTQ and WMCQ this weekend and my meta has very little super fast aggro decks and very little Jund. Searing Spear is good when your opponent tries to blink a Tusk, and it can burn Planeswalkers... Opinions?
He obviously cut one Thragtusk because you can't have too many 5-drops. I think 6 is the right number. Adding 2 Garruks and a Thragtusk would be a horrible idea. The top-curve would become totally bloated. I also don't understand why you are not convinced with LotV. She doesn't even have to convince anyone anymore, she's been a staple for months now.
EDIT: I've played 2 Searing Spears in the MD for ages, but I've finally come to think about cutting them. 3 Damage doesn't seem to be enough in many cases now. I have thought about adding 2 Dreadbores, or maybe a 3rd Mizzium Mortars or 3rd Victim of Night instead of the second Dreadbore. I have a PTQ and WMCQ this weekend and my meta has very little super fast aggro decks and very little Jund. Searing Spear is good when your opponent tries to blink a Tusk, and it can burn Planeswalkers... Opinions?
I'd still say the 4th Thragtusk should be in there before the 3rd Thundermaw.
I really like Garruk, too... it is just as strong against Junk as the Thundermaws, and better in some other matchups... I don't know, its too bad all those 5 drops are what we want to be playing :/
As for the Searing Spears, I cut them. They are only really much good against aggro, and honestly, removal is pretty much all good against them.
Without knowing your list, Dreadbore and Victim of Night seems fine, depending on how much Planeswalking your opponents do you may want the second Dreadbore of course.
This question seemed to get passed over. This is the same thing I really need. I'm new here but is there a way to get a thread going for this? I've learned a lot about what to side in from the forums here but what to side out just alludes me. I always feel like I hurt the deck more then I helped it.
I'm starting to think to cut the 2x arbor elf and replace them with 2x Deathrite shaman.
opinions?
DRS is a much better choice, especially with Reanimator out there. I don't like Arbor Elf in the main since it really is a dead card after turn three. I dropped the Elves a while ago in my build since I hated seeing them in the mid game, and now run DRS instead and they're so much better against just about every tier 1 deck
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Arbor Elf is great for the nut draws where you drop a 5-drop on turn 3. Playing Acidic Slime turn 3 against midrage/control decks is amazing and has the chance to outright win the game right there for you. Elf working with Underworld Connections is also a great flow of cards which is nearly unbeatable against many decks.
DRS just isn't great in Standard. Ground Seal performs the same function as DRS against the reanimator decks, but as an upside (and a huge upside) it draws you a card.
Who all is still playing Jund? I have a PTQ this weekend and can't decide. I'm between spirit Jund with the ground seals and thundermaws main to give a better chance against reanimator or playing that new WBR deck.
The WRB deck is really powerful, it won my LGS's PTQ and I'm pretty sure it took down the WMCQ the next day too. (Other decks performing well were Jund, Junk, UWR and Blitz). I think the WRB MU is a tough one because they got a reanimator core and play lots of problematic creatures (Aurelia, Obzedat, Olivia, AoS). I'm pretty sure it's a good deck choice.
DRS + Ground Seal don't play well together.
I play two Vampire Nighthawk in that slot, since I face meta full of heavy aggro.
You obviously don't go turn 1 DRS, turn 2 Ground Seal. If you have the DRS out, keep Ground Seal in your hand. Usually when they Abrupt Decay DRS, you can hit something in their graveyard in response to keep them from using said card. And then next turn play Ground Seal and start all over. Or... just have both in play and not use the DRS. Junk can't kill both cards in one blow so it's not like you have to worry about overextending.
I'm not saying you are wrong to play Nighthawk, but that DRS and Ground Seal can be played in the same deck.
Reid just posted a "Why you should still play Jund article" recently and it was a good read. Gives solid points as to why still play the deck, and how to tackle reanimator.
Reid just posted a "Why you should still play Jund article" recently and it was a good read. Gives solid points as to why still play the deck, and how to tackle reanimator.
Yeah I saw that. Too bad I don't own premium anymore otherwise I'd be all over it.
Could you give some of what he was talking about? I'd be interested in how he said to tackle reanimator.
Yeah I saw that. Too bad I don't own premium anymore otherwise I'd be all over it.
Could you give some of what he was talking about? I'd be interested in how he said to tackle reanimator.
Half of his advice was "if they're on a bad draw you have a better chance" which was pretty dumb, but he opts for high-impact cards like Ground Seal and Slaughter Games over Tormod's or DRS. He sides in SG, Cage and a few bonfires. The plan is to keep them from reanimating. That piece of advice was less impressive than his whole article, but still not bad advice.
I am picking Jund back up after not having success with the list that was going around pre-GTC. I have been playtesting Reid Duke's list to excellent results. This deck seems to deal with things my Prime Speaker Bant couldn't because it has hard removal not just temporary bounce spells.
His deck is the only one that I had an absolute nightmare against when playing Control or Prime Speaker.
Jund is testing favorably for me, and I am only worried about the matchup against the barely Boros list up there.
As I am semi-new / returning player to this archetype I was hoping to hear that Jund might crush such a strategy.
I have been running 2. I had 4, but since reduced that number due to lingering souls not being as prominent. I feel that 2 is the right number at the moment. It's still amazing when you draw it, but not always good against some of the more aggressive strategies.
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Any list that runs Arbor Elfs should consider 1 or 2 copies for the unlikely but potential turn 3 Hellkite.
*I enjoy rooting for Jund. No matter what happens, every SCG Open I've got to listen to the commentators trash it for being a wannabe control deck, while praising Esper, even though Esper never seems to take home the trophy.
Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
I've been running three MD Thundermaws and they've often been the deciding factor against control and Reanimator decks. Against Reanimator, they have very little, outside of AoS, to deal with Thundermaw. Even with an AoS on the table, it's still a free 5 damage.
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His deck is extremely Strong. However I'm not convined with the Lilianas, perhaps cut them for 2 Garruks and replace the Thragtusk
He obviously cut one Thragtusk because you can't have too many 5-drops. I think 6 is the right number. Adding 2 Garruks and a Thragtusk would be a horrible idea. The top-curve would become totally bloated. I also don't understand why you are not convinced with LotV. She doesn't even have to convince anyone anymore, she's been a staple for months now.
EDIT: I've played 2 Searing Spears in the MD for ages, but I've finally come to think about cutting them. 3 Damage doesn't seem to be enough in many cases now. I have thought about adding 2 Dreadbores, or maybe a 3rd Mizzium Mortars or 3rd Victim of Night instead of the second Dreadbore. I have a PTQ and WMCQ this weekend and my meta has very little super fast aggro decks and very little Jund. Searing Spear is good when your opponent tries to blink a Tusk, and it can burn Planeswalkers... Opinions?
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I'd still say the 4th Thragtusk should be in there before the 3rd Thundermaw.
I really like Garruk, too... it is just as strong against Junk as the Thundermaws, and better in some other matchups... I don't know, its too bad all those 5 drops are what we want to be playing :/
As for the Searing Spears, I cut them. They are only really much good against aggro, and honestly, removal is pretty much all good against them.
Without knowing your list, Dreadbore and Victim of Night seems fine, depending on how much Planeswalking your opponents do you may want the second Dreadbore of course.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=54799
Esper:
+1 Staff of Nin
+2 Acidic Slime
+2 Underworld Connections
+1 Rakdos's Return
+2 Slaughter Games
-2 Arbor Elf
-1 Murder
-3 Mizzium Mortars
-2 Tragic Slip
Jund Mirror:
+1 Staff of Nin
+2 Acidic Slime
+1 Murder
+1 Olivia Voldaren
-2 Ground Seal
-2 Tragic Slip
-1 Mizzium Mortars
Naya Blitz
+1 Abrupt Decay
+1 Murder
+2 Pillar of Flame
+1 Sever the Bloodline
-2 Rakdos's Return
-2 Ground Seal
-1 Liliana of the Veil
Naya Midrange:
Is this even a deck?
Haven't seen it, don't know what to do about it.
R/X Aggro:
+1 Abrupt Decay
+1 Murder
+2 Pillar of Flame
-2 Rakdos's Return
-2 Ground Seal
UWR Midrange/Flash/Tempo/Whatever
+1 Staff of Nin
+1 Abrupt Decay
+1 Rakdos's Return
+1 Slaughter games
+1 Olivia Voldaren
-2 Tragic Slip
-1 Dreadbore
-1 Mizzium Mortars
-1 Liliana of the Veil
Junk Reanimator:
+1 Grafdigger's Cage
+1 Staff of Nin
+2 Underworld Connections
+1 Olivia Voldaren
+1 Murder
+1 Sever the Bloodline
+2 Slaughter Games
-4 Liliana of the Veil
-2 Rakdos's Return
-1 Dreadbore
-2 Arbor Elf
A couple things there I'm not entirely sure on, such as well, most of the UWR plan, as well as the Arbor Elves against Junk.
I never liked Arbor Elf in this deck, to be honest. Deathrite Shaman should work much better in the longer games.
DRS is a much better choice, especially with Reanimator out there. I don't like Arbor Elf in the main since it really is a dead card after turn three. I dropped the Elves a while ago in my build since I hated seeing them in the mid game, and now run DRS instead and they're so much better against just about every tier 1 deck
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DRS just isn't great in Standard. Ground Seal performs the same function as DRS against the reanimator decks, but as an upside (and a huge upside) it draws you a card.
Yeah I've seen some people having success with splashing white for souls and restoration angel.
As to the WBR deck, it's that midrange/controlish deck that runs Boros reckoners, aurelia, obzedat, faithless looting, etc.
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You obviously don't go turn 1 DRS, turn 2 Ground Seal. If you have the DRS out, keep Ground Seal in your hand. Usually when they Abrupt Decay DRS, you can hit something in their graveyard in response to keep them from using said card. And then next turn play Ground Seal and start all over. Or... just have both in play and not use the DRS. Junk can't kill both cards in one blow so it's not like you have to worry about overextending.
I'm not saying you are wrong to play Nighthawk, but that DRS and Ground Seal can be played in the same deck.
Yeah I saw that. Too bad I don't own premium anymore otherwise I'd be all over it.
Could you give some of what he was talking about? I'd be interested in how he said to tackle reanimator.
(246-174-26)
Don't overload on hate and keep your deck filled with threats.
Half of his advice was "if they're on a bad draw you have a better chance" which was pretty dumb, but he opts for high-impact cards like Ground Seal and Slaughter Games over Tormod's or DRS. He sides in SG, Cage and a few bonfires. The plan is to keep them from reanimating. That piece of advice was less impressive than his whole article, but still not bad advice.
Anyways I was wondering how everyone thought Jund would fare against this list? http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=55115
His deck is the only one that I had an absolute nightmare against when playing Control or Prime Speaker.
Jund is testing favorably for me, and I am only worried about the matchup against the barely Boros list up there.
As I am semi-new / returning player to this archetype I was hoping to hear that Jund might crush such a strategy.
Beware of Junk Reanimator, though.
How well does the deck do against flash in your guy's experience?