I'm still not sold on the Rancor. It's a good card, but not sure if it brings more than you lose on the Wild Defiance.
The beauty of the wild defiance build is that any turn, you can deal 9-10 infect with one creature in one swing.
1/1 -> cast Rangers Guile for hexprof & 1/1-> 5/5 -> Mutagenic growth is a 10/10
1/1 -> Appostle's blessing for protection -> 4/4-> Mutagenic growth is a 9/9
Even gut shot gives you +3/3 if you hit your own guy.
With so few creatures, you can't afford to swing a 3/1 with trample most of the time and lose your creature, you're still stalling for the one big hit. However, you can cast Unnatural Predation for G also and will end up doing more damage more often since it would make your 1/1 a 5/5 with trample when Wild Defiance is on the board (or send 2 at the creature through lash).
My friend has been testing with Rancor and he's been getting awesome results so far. It is true, you don't gain the same benefits with it than using other cards + Wild Defiance, but the good part is that it comes back to your hand, you can always make any creature a 3/1 Trample or even 5/1 Trample, if have enough cards in your hand you can use less cards to make it a 10/x and swing for the win.
The addition of Rancor is what makes the defiant infect decks a force now. Running 4 of each works and is seeing some competitive play. Also, the first post of this thread isn't being kept well considering it's an "official" thread with 24 pages. There's primers to be had and list to be gone over from bigger events. I guess I can ask a mod for a rework unless someone beats me to it and wants to handle the upkeep. Or the OP. Whatever works.
There is always a trade off between speed and resiliency in combo decks like this. Rancor adds resiliency at the cost of speed, but the deck remains blisteringly fast. I'm going to do more playtesting but my initial impressions indicate the trade off is worth it.
There is always a trade off between speed and resiliency in combo decks like this. Rancor adds resiliency at the cost of speed, but the deck remains blisteringly fast. I'm going to do more playtesting but my initial impressions indicate the trade off is worth it.
True. Rancor doesn't really slow down the deck at all, if something it makes it sightly faster.
From my experience, this deck is perfectly happy mulling to 5 if needed. Ponder and Probe really fill in a lot of the gaps. I do prefer 10 infect critters, however (4 Agents, 4 Nexi, 2 Elfs).
Kuiji: Only 9 infect creatures? That is only 70% chance of having infect creature in your opening hand. It means almost 1/3 of games mulliganing due to having no creatures. With ponder it is 83% (13 cards out of 60) but Ponder itself doesnt grant it 100% (I dont know the chance righ now and im too lazy to count it, let say 50%) so it is definitely less - around 75%. It is still not enough for deck which needs an infect card early or its chances drops dramaticaly (Curse of death's hold is GO)
I played U/G year ago - ZEN/SOM and played 16 infects + 4 nexus (different deck though)
I know it is a little number but it works out great for me. I would like to add an extra Elf, but that's it.
I'm sold on a T1 or T2 cathedral of war, and going in for a T3 or T4 kill. I'm also trying to go without Wild Defiance. I put blue in the deck but it's pretty unnecessary, I just wanted extra creatures. I considered Mirran Mettle for artifacts, and it would be easier to do with the colorless mana lands, but I don't think Necropede or Plague Myr are worth it
I have been watching this thread for a while and finally go around to making an account.
Here is what I am planning on playing the next three months(with adjustments):
I was skeptical of Spellskites at first but after playing with them I have mainboarded 2 and kept 2 in side. Rancor is of course the best addition to this deck by far.
My Sideboard is still a work in progress; could I have some suggestions?:
My meta is fairly small with half home-brews, half competitive decks. Competitive includes Naya Pod, B/r Zombies, Tempered Steel, and thankfully, only sometimes a Delver deck.
Thanks for your input!
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The Miracle green cards, Revenge of the Hunted and Blessings of Nature, are cards that seem made for Wild Defiance. With 2 dudes down Blessings can make them into monsters, and if Wild Defiance is on the board it is game over.
I'm going to try this out on MTGO and I'll post back when I have some results.
The Miracle green cards, Revenge of the Hunted and Blessings of Nature, are cards that seem made for Wild Defiance. With 2 dudes down Blessings can make them into monsters, and if Wild Defiance is on the board it is game over.
I'm going to try this out on MTGO and I'll post back when I have some results.
Too inconsistent with that many miracles. Also, there is a mono green infect thread you should post that in.
Wow that list would really not work, miracles aren't good enough for infect because if you get them in hand its basically a loss...its very annoying :/
It's great for a deck like mono green that will ALWAYS have creatures, plus can ramp up the mana.
I have been watching this thread for a while and finally go around to making an account.
Here is what I am planning on playing the next three months(with adjustments):
I was skeptical of Spellskites at first but after playing with them I have mainboarded 2 and kept 2 in side. Rancor is of course the best addition to this deck by far.
My Sideboard is still a work in progress; could I have some suggestions?:
My meta is fairly small with half home-brews, half competitive decks. Competitive includes Naya Pod, B/r Zombies, Tempered Steel, and thankfully, only sometimes a Delver deck.
Thanks for your input!
Don't ever use just 2 Elves, the weakness of infect is having little creatures, if they have Liliana, what will you do? Scoop?
With that many spells, you should take one out and put in Runechanter's Pike
What do you guys do vs Mono Black aggro running 4 Lillianas and 4 Obliterators? Thx.
wouldn't the solution to board in ghostform or use the blessing to name black,
there was a post a few back that says you swing 3 times and win max!
and i agree i built a jankier version (missing the full 4 creature count and the nexus) and when wild defiance dropped i had to swing but 1 more time, 2 guts, 1 bless and i had enough infect damage being evaded to kill
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If that's your "casual," what on earth is required for "formal," a butler in livery shuffling the decks whilst a pianist plays Brahms in front of a tapestry?
all games were a 4 or 5 turn win, 3 times it was livewire triggers for win, 4 times it was wild defiance with apostle's blessing for unblockable (even had double wild defiance once), and 1 time had livewire and wild defiance on for win.
this is a pretty solid deck and it doesn't even need to be fully constructed to win, that said i am still trading to make the inkmoths total 4, and i don't think it particularly needs rancor
Sideboard note: corrupted resolve is a great counterspell if they have mana up (and no leak in hand )
What do you guys do vs Mono Black aggro running 4 Lillianas and 4 Obliterators? Thx.
Honestly, I don't feel that that matchup is entirely unfavorable. lillianna's second ability is annoying but not unusual and obliterator is bad against unblockable/flying creatures (blighted agent, thrummingbird). you can usually just race them.
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If that's your "casual," what on earth is required for "formal," a butler in livery shuffling the decks whilst a pianist plays Brahms in front of a tapestry?
Here is the deck I used,
adding trample from unnatural predation is really good, saves your guy and can be a trap for the poor 2/2 blocker who is dead and their controller is now up 3 poision
And what do you guys do against Melira?
Does even anybody play her?
I think ill add some Turn Aside to protect my deathbringer against possible threats.
funny enough that was on the top of my opponents dungrove library last game.
but i did have outs in the deck even on the field,
because Melira, Sylvok Outcast makes my creatures lose infect, livewire lash triggers causes 2 damage from the creatures. i would be able to smash melira in the face with a lash before combat damage and get through with my newly restored infect
....or double gut shot melira if i must or snag it in game 3 with sideboard cards
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The beauty of the wild defiance build is that any turn, you can deal 9-10 infect with one creature in one swing.
1/1 -> cast Rangers Guile for hexprof & 1/1-> 5/5 -> Mutagenic growth is a 10/10
1/1 -> Appostle's blessing for protection -> 4/4-> Mutagenic growth is a 9/9
Even gut shot gives you +3/3 if you hit your own guy.
With so few creatures, you can't afford to swing a 3/1 with trample most of the time and lose your creature, you're still stalling for the one big hit. However, you can cast Unnatural Predation for G also and will end up doing more damage more often since it would make your 1/1 a 5/5 with trample when Wild Defiance is on the board (or send 2 at the creature through lash).
True. Rancor doesn't really slow down the deck at all, if something it makes it sightly faster.
2 mana to give it hexproof, and with Wild Defiance, gain a bunch of life?
Sounds good, but more like a SB card.
I know it is a little number but it works out great for me. I would like to add an extra Elf, but that's it.
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Hinterland Harbor
8 Forest
5 Island
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Glistener Elf
3 Blighted Agent
Spells
4 Rancor
4 Livewire Lash
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Apostles Blessing
4 Rangers Guile
4 Gitaxian Probe
I'm sold on a T1 or T2 cathedral of war, and going in for a T3 or T4 kill. I'm also trying to go without Wild Defiance. I put blue in the deck but it's pretty unnecessary, I just wanted extra creatures. I considered Mirran Mettle for artifacts, and it would be easier to do with the colorless mana lands, but I don't think Necropede or Plague Myr are worth it
Here is what I am planning on playing the next three months(with adjustments):
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Evolving Wilds
4 Hinterland Harbor
7 Forest
5 Island
Creatures
4 Blighted Agent
2 Glistener Elf
2 Spellskite
Spells
4 Wild Defiance
1 Livewire Lash
4 Mutagenic Growth
1 Titanic Growth
2 Ranger's Guile
4 Apostle's Blessing
1 Artful Dodge
1 Gut Shot
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Rancor
2 Spellskite
1 Glistener Elf
1 Artful Dodge
3 Natualize
2 Gut Shot
2 Mana Leak
2 Mental Mistep
2 Grafdigger's Cage
I was skeptical of Spellskites at first but after playing with them I have mainboarded 2 and kept 2 in side. Rancor is of course the best addition to this deck by far.
My Sideboard is still a work in progress; could I have some suggestions?:
My meta is fairly small with half home-brews, half competitive decks. Competitive includes Naya Pod, B/r Zombies, Tempered Steel, and thankfully, only sometimes a Delver deck.
Thanks for your input!
I'm going to try this out on MTGO and I'll post back when I have some results.
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Glistener Elf
4 Blight Mamba
4 Ichorclaw Myr
2 Viridian Corrupter
4 Revenge of the Hunted
4 Blessings of Nature
4 Apostle's Blessing
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Ranger's Guile
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=7718699&postcount=248
Too inconsistent with that many miracles. Also, there is a mono green infect thread you should post that in.
Wow that list would really not work, miracles aren't good enough for infect because if you get them in hand its basically a loss...its very annoying :/
It's great for a deck like mono green that will ALWAYS have creatures, plus can ramp up the mana.
Don't ever use just 2 Elves, the weakness of infect is having little creatures, if they have Liliana, what will you do? Scoop?
With that many spells, you should take one out and put in Runechanter's Pike
Also, where is Ichorclaw myr ?
Had trouble against This ;(
wouldn't the solution to board in ghostform or use the blessing to name black,
there was a post a few back that says you swing 3 times and win max!
and i agree i built a jankier version (missing the full 4 creature count and the nexus) and when wild defiance dropped i had to swing but 1 more time, 2 guts, 1 bless and i had enough infect damage being evaded to kill
2 runechanter's pike
2 livewire lash
4 wild defiance
4 rancor
2 ponder
2 artful dodge
4 revenge of the hunted
4 titanic growth
4 blighted agent
2 thrummingbird
4 glistener elf
4 inkmoth nexus
4 island
7 forest
please comment on this.
signature by rivenor at http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=329663
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I hate the reserved list.
Mythic rares are fine.
went 4-0 at our LGS tuesday casual with 18 people, all 2-0 rounds.
Beat Wb Token, WR Homebrew, UW Delver, G Dungrove.
all games were a 4 or 5 turn win, 3 times it was livewire triggers for win, 4 times it was wild defiance with apostle's blessing for unblockable (even had double wild defiance once), and 1 time had livewire and wild defiance on for win.
this is a pretty solid deck and it doesn't even need to be fully constructed to win, that said i am still trading to make the inkmoths total 4, and i don't think it particularly needs rancor
Sideboard note: corrupted resolve is a great counterspell if they have mana up (and no leak in hand
deck to follow
Honestly, I don't feel that that matchup is entirely unfavorable. lillianna's second ability is annoying but not unusual and obliterator is bad against unblockable/flying creatures (blighted agent, thrummingbird). you can usually just race them.
signature by rivenor at http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=329663
I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling, and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
I hate the reserved list.
Mythic rares are fine.
4x Glistener Elf
4x Blighted Agent
4x ThrumingBird
Spells:
4x Mutagenic Growth
4x Titanic Growth
3x Revenge of the Hunted
4x Apostle's Blessing
4x Ponder
4x Rancor
4x Wild Defiance
Land:
4x Hinterland Harbor
2x Inkmoth Nexus
9x Forest
6x Island
Do you guys think that this could be played competitively?
Current Standard Decks:
BRVampiresRB
adding trample from unnatural predation is really good, saves your guy and can be a trap for the poor 2/2 blocker who is dead and their controller is now up 3 poision
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
2 Necropede
1 Ichorclaw Myr
Instants (16)
4 Apostle's Blessing
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Unnatural Predation
3 Gut Shot
1 Ranger's Guile
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Artful Dodge
Enchantment (3)
3 Wild Defiance
Equipment (3)
3 Livewire Lash
Land (22)
8 Forest
7 Island
4 Hinterland Harbor
2 Evolving Wilds
1 Inkmoth Nexus
3 Viridian Corrupter
2 Disperse
3 Vapor Snag
1 Corrupted Resolve
3 Mana Leak
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Tormond's Crypt
1 Witchbane Orb
funny enough that was on the top of my opponents dungrove library last game.
but i did have outs in the deck even on the field,
because Melira, Sylvok Outcast makes my creatures lose infect, livewire lash triggers causes 2 damage from the creatures. i would be able to smash melira in the face with a lash before combat damage and get through with my newly restored infect
....or double gut shot melira if i must or snag it in game 3 with sideboard cards