this is an interesting card that requires some special attention. it superficially ressembles a sweeper but it won't realistically function as a sweeper when you're on defense. your opponent can choose to just pay life and keep beating you down. this is actually a sweeper to use on OFFENSE.
but how do you stay on offense while casting Killing Waves? obviously you need sources of damage that will be unhindered by it.
Undying Creatures
Creatures that can return from the graveyard
Direct Damage Spells
Planeswalkers
or a board position based around enhancing a single creature, so you can pay the life to keep your guy, but keep up the beatdown. so, Equipment or Enchantments that boost creatures.
i have no idea if this amounts to a playable card or not, but i did find the card interesting because its tricky to use it the right way. i like the design. maybe it will be a cool card for a RB or GB undying aggro deck.
In my eyes it's a stalemate breaker. Seems to be the clearest use for it, because in a stalemate both options are terrible options for your opponent. In that light I think this has value as maybe a 2 of or a sideboard card.
In the right deck it's awesome. Zombies comes right to mind, but Pod could get use out of it, unburial decks, HS Lich decks. It's also just a versatile card for black (or anyone that splashes black).
Short on mana, then it can do a little damage or clear a few creatures, heavy on mana late game, cast x= lots.
At first glance it seems like a candidate for the worst rare of the set (with only a few spoiled, no less) but how can I dismiss it when a deck like Zombies exists in the format?
Zombies can and probably should sideboard it as an answer to tokens and RG Aggro. Either to bring things back down to a level where Gravecrawler actually matters, or to just burn your opponent down at the expense of the Huntmaster and mana dorks they desperately need.
If, after testing, it fails in Zombie sideboards, then I highly doubt it will shine anywhere else.
Yeah it seems like a good sideboard option for Zombies decks in aggro mirrors. Gravecrawler and Messenger can be sacked with ease and who knows what other undying goodies AVR might bring to Zombies. Plus there will be situations where you just win the game by casting this.
That being said, cards that give your opponent options are not always ideal.
I think that a good card to compare to this one is Smallpox.
Smallpox does the same thing to you as it does to the opponent. The difference is that you spent a card and some mana to cast it. It becomes a good card when discarding a card and sacrificing a creature benefit you or don't effect you. You have to get value for this card to be good.
As for Killing Wave, it might get value in a deck like Zombies where losing a Gravecrawler and the first half of Geralf's Messenger is easy to do. However, why not just play Black Sun's Zenith? I gave one in my Zombies sideboard. It does everything that Killing Wave does in a best case scenario without the opponent having the option of keeping his Mirran Crusader around at the cost of X life. Plus, you should be packing Ratchet Bomb too.
This is a card that will win games that you're already winning and do nothing when you need it to do something.
I just like how this is basically The Rock as a card: Making your opponent make bad choices for incremental advantage.
That being said, this is technically a horrible card: mana-depleting best-case-scenario choices for your opponent that makes you make those same choices? Doesn't even work on paper.
I think I might try it as a 1-of in the main and a 1-of in the side of my Zombies build when the set is released. Against midranged decks, it should be quite a beating.
I actually love this card! In a ramp deck I think it will be very powerful. As was mentioned, with either little creatures that you don't care if they die, or no creatures on the board, it can become a huge game swing. With a ramp deck, casting this turn 4 or 5 for x=6 or 7 for EACH creature can swing the game insanely. I am milling a BGu ramp deck around in my head after seeing a few of the AVR cards, and it's something I will definitely test it once the whole set is released
With a ramp deck, casting this turn 4 or 5 for x=6 or 7 for EACH creature can swing the game insanely.
What if he instead opts to sacrifice all his creatures? Then all you have accomplished is a sweeper at turn 4. How can that be spectacular when turn 4 Day of Judgment happens all the time?
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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
- H. L. Mencken
This feels an awful lot like something like Browbeat. Your opponent will always choose the mode you don't want.
However, in an aggro deck like Zombies, it usually doesn't matter which they choose. If the board is clear on your half, it does seem bad, but if your opponent just cast Timely Reinforcements and you cast this for 3B or 4B, that puts them in quite the pickle. If you are racing against an aggro deck, and you cast it for that much, and you have undying, quite the pickle again.
What if he instead opts to sacrifice all his creatures? Then all you have accomplished is a sweeper at turn 4. How can that be spectacular when turn 4 Day of Judgment happens all the time?
There is always that comparison, but how detrimental is a turn 4 DoJ to an aggro deck? It's a huge play. And at first, most aggro decks will see you not playing white, and could over reach, making this either pound their life total, or come close to wipe their board. If they leave a creature or two, your already running black, so you should have the removal to take them out.
Also, DoJ is a lot harder to splash. As I mentioned in my post, the deck I am looking at putting this in for Standard is a BGu ramp deck. Where splashing white for WW is so detrimental to the mana base its not worth it.
I'm not saying this card is going to be huge, but I can totally see it in any black based deck, honestly. Since it can swing games in such a huge way.
Because, if you are playing aggro and your opponent is trying to stabilize, you don't mind paying 4-5 life for each of your creatures (within reason), your opponent does when you have a Messenger with Mortarpod out. This is going to be a good card, but as said in the OP, not as a board wiper, but as an aggro finisher.
It is not supposed to be a defensive board wipe, it is an offensive one. This will see no play in a control deck, but in a midrange deck, crap is going down.
this is an interesting card that requires some special attention. it superficially ressembles a sweeper but it won't realistically function as a sweeper when you're on defense. your opponent can choose to just pay life and keep beating you down. this is actually a sweeper to use on OFFENSE.
but how do you stay on offense while casting Killing Waves? obviously you need sources of damage that will be unhindered by it.
Undying Creatures
Creatures that can return from the graveyard
Direct Damage Spells
Planeswalkers
or a board position based around enhancing a single creature, so you can pay the life to keep your guy, but keep up the beatdown. so, Equipment or Enchantments that boost creatures.
i have no idea if this amounts to a playable card or not, but i did find the card interesting because its tricky to use it the right way. i like the design. maybe it will be a cool card for a RB or GB undying aggro deck.
Short on mana, then it can do a little damage or clear a few creatures, heavy on mana late game, cast x= lots.
It will see plenty of play.
Zombies can and probably should sideboard it as an answer to tokens and RG Aggro. Either to bring things back down to a level where Gravecrawler actually matters, or to just burn your opponent down at the expense of the Huntmaster and mana dorks they desperately need.
If, after testing, it fails in Zombie sideboards, then I highly doubt it will shine anywhere else.
That being said, cards that give your opponent options are not always ideal.
It's obviously good with undying and Gravecrawler.
It also seems good vs Swarm aggro and Lingering Souls, but will control play this? Definitely an interesting card.
Smallpox does the same thing to you as it does to the opponent. The difference is that you spent a card and some mana to cast it. It becomes a good card when discarding a card and sacrificing a creature benefit you or don't effect you. You have to get value for this card to be good.
As for Killing Wave, it might get value in a deck like Zombies where losing a Gravecrawler and the first half of Geralf's Messenger is easy to do. However, why not just play Black Sun's Zenith? I gave one in my Zombies sideboard. It does everything that Killing Wave does in a best case scenario without the opponent having the option of keeping his Mirran Crusader around at the cost of X life. Plus, you should be packing Ratchet Bomb too.
This is a card that will win games that you're already winning and do nothing when you need it to do something.
That card is confirmed to be fake.
- H. L. Mencken
French Duel Commander
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer RUG
That being said, this is technically a horrible card: mana-depleting best-case-scenario choices for your opponent that makes you make those same choices? Doesn't even work on paper.
I should have know with that name......
You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
What if he instead opts to sacrifice all his creatures? Then all you have accomplished is a sweeper at turn 4. How can that be spectacular when turn 4 Day of Judgment happens all the time?
- H. L. Mencken
French Duel Commander
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer RUG
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
However, in an aggro deck like Zombies, it usually doesn't matter which they choose. If the board is clear on your half, it does seem bad, but if your opponent just cast Timely Reinforcements and you cast this for 3B or 4B, that puts them in quite the pickle. If you are racing against an aggro deck, and you cast it for that much, and you have undying, quite the pickle again.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
There is always that comparison, but how detrimental is a turn 4 DoJ to an aggro deck? It's a huge play. And at first, most aggro decks will see you not playing white, and could over reach, making this either pound their life total, or come close to wipe their board. If they leave a creature or two, your already running black, so you should have the removal to take them out.
Also, DoJ is a lot harder to splash. As I mentioned in my post, the deck I am looking at putting this in for Standard is a BGu ramp deck. Where splashing white for WW is so detrimental to the mana base its not worth it.
I'm not saying this card is going to be huge, but I can totally see it in any black based deck, honestly. Since it can swing games in such a huge way.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
It has several in Standard.
Black Sun's Zenith, Life's Finale, Massacre Wurm aren't enough for you?
Meh. I'll stick to BSZ, Day of Judgment, Sunblast Angel, Massacre Wurm, Elesh Norn, Slagstorm, Whipflare, and Marrow Shards (Snapcasted for cookies).
No, not really. They're all terrible.
I guess that is why none of them see play, huh?
Man, I wish every amazing, new deck builder on these forums would just ride the pro tour so they can wreck with all the pros using bad cards.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
That's right. None of them see play except in terrible decks.