Hoping to swap the 2 Nightmare for 2 Grave Titan but I don't own any yet. I have an M11 box arriving in the mail today so fingers crossed. I know it is a pretty standard MBC list and nothing too exciting but it has been very consistent for me, with a turn 5 Mind Sludge landing the majority of games.
Because the deck doesn't have a super low curve. If you drop it on turn 3 the odds are much greater that you will die before being able to win regardless of whether or not you are in control of the game. It's greedy to drop it early when you need to be dropping cards that affect the board immediately, anyway.
Early game SiB is almost indisputably better. Late game I think Tutelage will prove its worth, keeping your hand filled with the gas you need to win - and a few bad flips shouldn't matter when you can end the game in just a few turns.
^ This. Sign in blood is better early game and playling tutelage early, when you don't have crystal ball will likely kill you before you can play your wincon. Plus you can't even play corrupt yet to regain your life.
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Standard
none
Modern UBG B/U/G control BBB MBC WUR Control WWW Prison RRR Goblins
Legacy BBB Pox UBG B/U/G Control UWU StoneBlade UW Miracle Control
Hoping to swap the 2 Nightmare for 2 Grave Titan but I don't own any yet. I have an M11 box arriving in the mail today so fingers crossed. I know it is a pretty standard MBC list and nothing too exciting but it has been very consistent for me, with a turn 5 Mind Sludge landing the majority of games.
Anything I should consider changing? Thanks!
Since your using tectonic edges, as well as hexmages and gatekeepers, Grim Discovery might be a good addition. Also I don't see what the smothers are for. Maybe use Deathmark instead?
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Standard
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Modern UBG B/U/G control BBB MBC WUR Control WWW Prison RRR Goblins
Legacy BBB Pox UBG B/U/G Control UWU StoneBlade UW Miracle Control
You already said you want to change the Nightmares for Titans...my advice: swap them out for just about anything! Nightmare is a vanilla flier...sure, he can get big late game, but you already have Persecutors for a beefy flier who can hit the red zone. Nightmare just sucks. My advice: drop the flying horses and one MC for three Duress.
I live there actually but can't make it. Work work work.
I can relate. I was thinking about making the drive from Ottawa, but I'm not Q'd this year and didn't want to shell out for hotel and all that for Grinders and (in all likelihood) side tournaments.
Since your using tectonic edges, as well as hexmages and gatekeepers, Grim Discovery might be a good addition. Also I don't see what the smothers are for. Maybe use Deathmark instead?
Smother comes in against Mono Red, and probably Jund, depending...You need to be able to deal with hasty little bastards.
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Some people like to win MtG matches in the Red Zone. I prefer to win the way God intended: on the stack.
This is what I'm planning on running right now. I just got my new M11 toys (minus Grave Titans, which I'm not shelling out for right now), and this should be quite resilient against everything in my local meta. However, it's difficult for me to test this against something like Super Friends, as no one in the area has shelled out the money to build it (nor will they). This has "Outs" against everything I can think of, including Eldrazi (plenty of Sac effects, plus 2 Brittle Effigies), can handle Planeswalkers (clumsily, but All is Dust, sided Hexmages and Duress), and it should have enough removal to keep most aggro on the back foot until I can stabilize. I do have one Haunting Echoes to handle a couple of the local players who like to shuffle their graveyard back into the library and reuse everything, which can be tutored up with Liliana before they get too far into their decks, as well.
I used to use a pair of Sadistic Sacraments in the sideboard, and won almost every game that they showed up early in, as I could remove the biggest threats from my opponents' decks. I'm thinking I can get away without them, now, though.
@Kadrec: How consistent do you think Kozilek will be for you? Seems like you'll have a hard time dropping him on the field. I'm looking for an alt win con (besides Grave Titan and Percy) so I'm interested in how he works out.
This is what I'm planning on running right now. I just got my new M11 toys (minus Grave Titans, which I'm not shelling out for right now), and this should be quite resilient against everything in my local meta. However, it's difficult for me to test this against something like Super Friends, as no one in the area has shelled out the money to build it (nor will they). This has "Outs" against everything I can think of, including Eldrazi (plenty of Sac effects, plus 2 Brittle Effigies), can handle Plainswalkers (clumsily, but All is Dust, sided Hexmages and Duress), and it should have enough removal to keep most aggro on the back foot until I can stabilize. I do have one Haunting Echoes to handle a couple of the local players who like to shuffle their graveyard back into the library and reuse everything, which can be tutored up with Liliana before they get too far into their decks, as well.
I used to use a pair of Sadistic Sacraments in the sideboard, and won almost every game that they showed up early in, as I could remove the biggest threats from my opponents' decks. I'm thinking I can get away without them, now, though.
Opinions?
Kozilek is a terrible choice. You dont have any ramp so you would have to wait till turn 10 to play him, and thats assuming you dont miss a land drop.
With Cosi youve got 6 wincons? Maybe? Id add some more and take Cosi out. I run 4 titans, two persecutors and 4 shades. I know you said you didnt want to shell out for the titans, so maybe something else. Nightmares? Seems kinda vanilla, but its certainly a budget option.
@Kadrec: How consistent do you think Kozilek will be for you? Seems like you'll have a hard time dropping him on the field. I'm looking for an alt win con (besides Grave Titan and Percy) so I'm interested in how he works out.
Kozilek is thrown in as anti-mill tech right now, because two of the local players love playing Mill, and he ensures that playing it is very much to their disadvantage. A former incarnation of this deck had 2x Nirkana Revenant and 1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, which worked out well on several occasions, letting Ulamog hit the ground while I'm at 6-7 lands, crush whatever single permanent is causing me the most pain, and then proceed to beat face.
Since I took the Revenants out, I decided to try out Kozilek, as the 4 draw + anti-mill tech could be useful, and he's 1 less CMC than Ulamog. I don't feel that he fits well in the deck, and would rather switch to another Persecutor or get a Grave Titan for the slot, but he's the best option I've got at the moment. If I find that this current iteration of the deck doesn't work for me, I'll be shuffling out the Persecutors and Kozilek to bring in the Nirkana Revenants and Ulamog again, most likely. If a Revenant has hit the field and stuck for even a single turn to attack, I've always won; they're very much a "remove or die" creature, considering MBC's formidable ability to keep the enemy field empty.
Went 3-2 last night. Beat 2 mill decks and 1 runeflare trap/underworld dreams deck. I lost to 2 UW control decks, which should not have happened. I'm pretty salty about that. It was a combination of bad luck and inexperience on my part.
The first UW deck started with leyline of sanctity in play game 1. It was still a good game, but I ended up losing. G2 he never sa a leyline and I steamrolled him. G3 he played the layline and I rolled over.
The 2nd one didn't have leylines. G1 was real close, but I lost it. G2 was also close, but I ended the game with 14 swamps out on the field, so yeah, mana flood much?
I also realized that when playing against UW, if you have the same/similar discard package that I do, just play draw go. And don't lay down a turn 2 gatekeepr just to try and get some damage in. Same with nantuko, unless you duress/IoK on T1, but even then. I think it would be better to let them build up unused removal in their hand while keeping counters in check with duress/IoK and planeswalker in check with PithN and Hexmage and then hit them with a mind sludge (even if you have to wait awhile for it, then start laying beaters. Mistakes made, lessons learned.
It does stop planeswalkers, manlands, KotR, Nantuko Shades!!, a bunch of other things. I actually boarded it in last night to stop Temple Bell in the runeflare trap deck.
Edit: The only things that stop resolved leylines are splashing for another color or All is Dust. Am I right?
The only things that stop resolved leylines are splashing for another color or All is Dust. Am I right?
Correct. Obviously, for *Mono* Black, the only choice is All is Dust, or Ulamog if you want something that's legendary and even more expensive, CMC-wise. That's actually part of the reason I had been running Ulamog, as he was a useful removal piece when I didn't have any other options. This, of course, assumed the game drew out long enough for me to throw him down.
It does stop planeswalkers, manlands, KotR, Nantuko Shades!!, a bunch of other things. I actually boarded it in last night to stop Temple Bell in the runeflare trap deck.
Edit: The only things that stop resolved leylines are splashing for another color or All is Dust. Am I right?
I still didn't see a Destructive Force deck. I played Vampires with Captivating and Nocturnus, U/W control (he top 8'd earlier this year), Grixis Control, and a Fauna Shaman/Mitotic/Elf deck.
I went 2-2, with every single match except for the Vamp one going to game 3, but I blew him out so...
Vampires: I removed all his threats early both games, and just trashed him with Persecutor and Grave Titan
U/W control: This is seriously a winnable matchup. Game 1 I got out turn 4 Percy, which he answered followed by two Grave Titans. I won shortly after. Game 2 he answered every threat I played, and even though I pushed the game to about 20 or so turns, he finished me with Gideon. Game 3 I made a mistake after about 30 turns of us removing threats back and forth. He was at 11 and I was at 13. I had a Corrupt and Diabolic Tutor in hand, and 9 swamps on the board along with a Chalice, and Crystal Ball. He only had Gideon. I shot his Gideon with the Corrupt instead of Tutoring for a swamp, and scrying for another swamp for the win next turn. The game went another 8-10 turns and he won by Martial Coup into Elspeth.
Grixis Control: This was a seriously difficult matchup for me. I had yet to play against this kind of deck and didn't have any idea what to expect. After multiple blightings and multiple Cruel Ultimatums in games 1 and 3 I lost. Game 3 I died when I had 6 lands in play (missed land drops and a pair of Ruinblasters) and two Grave Titans in hand, and to top it off, I died to a single Creeping Tarpit. But now I know how to play against that deck, and I won't make the same mistakes again.
Fauna Shama/Elf deck: This deck can do some really powerful things, but with Marsh Casualties and Consume the meek, they really just get annihilated. Blow up the mana dorks early with spot removal, then late game wait for him to overextend. They only run 3 Path sideboard as their only removal, so you can play all the threats you need, and Consume the Meek or Marsh for the win. I threw down 2 Grave titans in each of the games I won. Awesome!
I realized, this maindeck that I have is really solid. I didn't lose a single game 1. So only a few changes that I have in mind for next week:
Main
-1 Corrupt
-1 Royal Assassin
-1 Everflowing Chalice
-1 Haunting Echoes
-2 Tectonic Edge
+1 Grave Titan
+1 Vampire Nighthawk
+2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
+2 Mystifying Maze
Maybe -1 Swamp +1 more Gatekeeper
I don't know what I should put in this last slot. I'm building the mainboard for more aggro, and the sideboard more control, so I think that would be the right call. I feel like adding more theats is the right idea with this deck, pushing the aggressiveness up one notch. Although I did hit turn 4 Abyssal Persecutor followed up by turn 5 Grave Titan more than once tonight. And even one time Iwent Nighthawk, Percy, GT. Whenever Grave Titan hits the board it simply demoralizes the opponent, since removing him doesn't take away the Zombies except for Day or Coup. Its such a good card!
Anyways, feel free to comment on my deck's construction. I'd like to know what I could improve, or just adding different ideas to how the deck or even sideboard plays out.
Anyways, feel free to comment on my deck's construction. I'd like to know what I could improve, or just adding different ideas to how the deck or even sideboard plays out.
Thanks for the report and insights, Archie. Too bad about the result. That's gotta be frustrating. Coupla quick comments...
-No MD Sludge? I find this to be my greatest quandary with your list.
-You are really going to drop Echoes? Have you cast it in anger yet or are you just not drawing it and thus not seeing it's power? I guess you have no Tutor effects son the one-of may be kind of random...Still, I have one in my Esper bombs control deck and wiped out a UW control deck in testing, over and over again. Echoes is really, really good.
-I'm not personally a big fan of Tendrils in a non-Tutelage build, but if you like them...they are at least better against RDW than other options, but generally weaker everywhere else.
-I am surprised you ran afoul of Grixis. That deck is pretty much dead now.
/M
Better luck next week.
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Some people like to win MtG matches in the Red Zone. I prefer to win the way God intended: on the stack.
Hey folks, I've been lurking and commenting on the lists other put up for a week or so and figured it's high time for me to add my own list to the mix and give you all a chance to tell me in which particular ways I suck...
The Hexmages are obviously anti PW, the Needles just random solutions to annoying problems and will come in for all the usual suspects like PW, man lands and Fauna Shaman. I thought about running a random Ulamog and that may still happen as it gives you something against Mill decks (no I don't actually expect to see any) but it also gives you point removal, albeit very, very expensive point removal. Corrupt is anti RDW. The plan there is just to stay alive with point removal and cheap blockers long enough to hit Corrupt for 5 or 6 and pull away a bit. SadSacs come in against the RG big mana decks to rip their Forces, Titans and -- yes, this is no joke -- Warp Worlds.
The last card I cut from the maindeck was Dreamstone Hedron. I haven't seen anyone here talking about this card (for the last few weeks, at least) but figure it can be good for a late game boost to draw some cards and pull away.
Thoughts?
/M
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Some people like to win MtG matches in the Red Zone. I prefer to win the way God intended: on the stack.
Hey folks, I've been lurking and commenting on the lists other put up for a week or so and figured it's high time for me to add my own list to the mix and give you all a chance to tell me in which particular ways I suck...
The Hexmages are obviously anti PW, the Needles just random solutions to annoying problems and will come in for all the usual suspects like PW, man lands and Fauna Shaman. I thought about running a random Ulamog and that may still happen as it gives you something against Mill decks (no I don't actually expect to see any) but it also gives you point removal, albeit very, very expensive point removal. Corrupt is anti RDW. The plan there is just to stay alive with point removal and cheap blockers long enough to hit Corrupt for 5 or 6 and pull away a bit. SadSacs come in against the RG big mana decks to rip their Forces, Titans and -- yes, this is no joke -- Warp Worlds.
The last card I cut from the maindeck was Dreamstone Hedron. I haven't seen anyone here talking about this card (for the last few weeks, at least) but figure it can be good for a late game boost to draw some cards and pull away.
Thoughts?
/M
I'm wondering why you put corrupt in the side and not the main. I would swap the Duress and Corrupt. Also tendrils should be a 4 of in any mbc deck. Nantuko Shade is another good creature that puts early pressure on control decks and a good finisher against others. Mystifying Maze is something I'm not sold on quite yet. I'd rather just use brittle effigy.
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Standard
none
Modern UBG B/U/G control BBB MBC WUR Control WWW Prison RRR Goblins
Legacy BBB Pox UBG B/U/G Control UWU StoneBlade UW Miracle Control
I'm wondering why you put corrupt in the side and not the main. I would swap the Duress and Corrupt. Also tendrils should be a 4 of in any mbc deck. Nantuko Shade is another good creature that puts early pressure on control decks and a good finisher against others. Mystifying Maze is something I'm not sold on quite yet. I'd rather just use brittle effigy.
Corrupt is in the side because it doesn't kill a Fauna Shaman early in the game, but Consume does. These could be Tendrils, but Consume hits early PWs if necessary making it the most versatile of the three options IMHO.
Tendrils lost out to Doomblade because, in my meta, I HAVE to be able to kill something getting the Conscription treatment before it kills me and if you miss the opp with Tendrils then all of a sudden your target is going to be out of Tendrils range.
I agree with you on the Maze, but at the moment my deck is really tight and Effigy takes up a spell slot. The Maze, being in a land slot, is "free."
Shade is an excellent creature and I have argued here that he is not just an aggro option, but I don't want too many slots dedicated to creatures and all those that do make the deck have to serve multiple functions. Gatekeeper kills something, Titan... well, Titan is just Titan and I don't need to explain why he gets two spots. That leaves Persecutor and, if you prefer, Shade could get this slot, but Shade is one dimensional. He just attacks or blocks. Whereas Percy wins the fight against BSA and trades with any Titan. He also comes down early enough to be significant against RDW. Shade can't block BSA and only deals with Titans if you have 4 mana open, which I usually don't.
/M
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Some people like to win MtG matches in the Red Zone. I prefer to win the way God intended: on the stack.
If you're having trouble with conscription give royal assassin a try. It destroys Mythic. I run 2 in my sideboard. I would try and squeeze in a least two shades.
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Standard
none
Modern UBG B/U/G control BBB MBC WUR Control WWW Prison RRR Goblins
Legacy BBB Pox UBG B/U/G Control UWU StoneBlade UW Miracle Control
Thanks for the report and insights, Archie. Too bad about the result. That's gotta be frustrating. Coupla quick comments...
-No MD Sludge? I find this to be my greatest quandary with your list.
-You are really going to drop Echoes? Have you cast it in anger yet or are you just not drawing it and thus not seeing it's power? I guess you have no Tutor effects son the one-of may be kind of random...Still, I have one in my Esper bombs control deck and wiped out a UW control deck in testing, over and over again. Echoes is really, really good.
-I'm not personally a big fan of Tendrils in a non-Tutelage build, but if you like them...they are at least better against RDW than other options, but generally weaker everywhere else.
-I am surprised you ran afoul of Grixis. That deck is pretty much dead now.
/M
Better luck next week.
Actually I'm really glad that I ended up with the results I did. It gave me the insights to know how to play against these up-and-coming decks a little bit better next time. Game plan, more aggro.
Yeah, no Mind Sludge. I pulled it last second, and I think I'm happy with that choice. It is a great card, but like Blightning, has been slowly getting worse since decks can now recover much faster, and the Baloth and the Leyline. Most people are running creature heavy decks (except U/W), so I'm just letting them hit the board and removing them at that time. I want them to tap out every turn, so that I can tap out every turn.
I am actually running a pair of Diabolic Tutors, but no Liliana. Haunting Echoes is great, but I only had 2 opportunities to use it last night where it would pull more than 4 or 5 cards. It sort of wins the game, but not 100%. The reason I'm pulling it is that each card in most people's decks can win the game single handedly. Also, since I don't have Mind Sludge, I think pulling the Echoes is the right chioce. Most of the time, I found myself tutoring for Grave Titan or Tendrils anyways. Speaking of Tendrils, you don't like them in a non Tutelage build?!?! What?? The card is so good, and has saved my hide many times over. It's okay Tendrils, he didn't mean it.;)
I'm glad I played Grixis, since I know what to expect next time. Aggro thrashes that deck.
Thanks for the comments. As for your deck:
First, your land base is heavy on non-swamps and will definitely hurt your Mind Sludge. Pulling Tec edges for swamps would be the route I would take.
Pull those Consume Spirits! They aren't as good as Corrupt.
Edit: Seeing your comment, I still stand by my statement. It seems to me, that you're trying to get Consume Spirit to do other spell's jobs. And Tendrils and Doom Blade shouldn't be battling for the same slot, they should both be in the 75.
You only have 7 ways to remove 4 Persecutors, so killing them will be a little difficult. I'd try to make room for at least a pair of Tendrils.
I really don't like All is Dust in Monoblack, especially if you aren't able to ramp it out.
Careful with the heavy discard, since the Baloth and the Leyline are starting to run rampant in every sideboard. My $.02. Hope it helps.
One question: What do you do against Jund, Vampires, B/G Rock, and Grixis decks?
2 Nightmare
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Abyssal Persecutor
Spells (21):
4 Sign in Blood
3 Tendrils of Corruption
4 Doom Blade
3 Consuming Vapors
3 Mind Sludge
3 Marsh Casualties
1 Corrupt
23 Swamps
2 Tectonic Edge
3 Duress
4 Smother
3 Malakir Bloodwitch
3 Sadistic Sacrament
2 Bojuka Bog
Hoping to swap the 2 Nightmare for 2 Grave Titan but I don't own any yet. I have an M11 box arriving in the mail today so fingers crossed. I know it is a pretty standard MBC list and nothing too exciting but it has been very consistent for me, with a turn 5 Mind Sludge landing the majority of games.
Anything I should consider changing? Thanks!
I live there actually but can't make it. Work work work.
RADAMARO, FIRST TO DESIRER
UKEFNET THE MINDFULU
GSASAYA, OROCHI ASCENDANTG
MODERN
RMONO-RED ELDRAZIR
^ This. Sign in blood is better early game and playling tutelage early, when you don't have crystal ball will likely kill you before you can play your wincon. Plus you can't even play corrupt yet to regain your life.
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
Since your using tectonic edges, as well as hexmages and gatekeepers, Grim Discovery might be a good addition. Also I don't see what the smothers are for. Maybe use Deathmark instead?
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
You already said you want to change the Nightmares for Titans...my advice: swap them out for just about anything! Nightmare is a vanilla flier...sure, he can get big late game, but you already have Persecutors for a beefy flier who can hit the red zone. Nightmare just sucks. My advice: drop the flying horses and one MC for three Duress.
I can relate. I was thinking about making the drive from Ottawa, but I'm not Q'd this year and didn't want to shell out for hotel and all that for Grinders and (in all likelihood) side tournaments.
$10 Euros is more like $15, but it's still a bargain! Jump. Fast. You can probably trade it for two regular ones if you want.
And just to set the record straight...Just because a guy is a great dancer and dresses well doesn't mean he's gay. Jace is just very metro.
Smother comes in against Mono Red, and probably Jund, depending...You need to be able to deal with hasty little bastards.
17 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
Creatures (10)
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Nantuko Shade
2 Abyssal Persecutor
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Plainswalkers (2)
2 Liliana Vess
Spells (22)
4 Grim Discovery
4 Sign in Blood
3 Doom Blade
2 All is Dust
4 Consuming Vapors
2 Mind Sludge
2 Corrupt
1 Haunting Echoes
2 Crystal Ball
2 Brittle Effigy
2 Duress
2 Black Knight
4 Vampire Hexmage
2 Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
2 Malakir Bloodwitch
2 Consume the Meek
This is what I'm planning on running right now. I just got my new M11 toys (minus Grave Titans, which I'm not shelling out for right now), and this should be quite resilient against everything in my local meta. However, it's difficult for me to test this against something like Super Friends, as no one in the area has shelled out the money to build it (nor will they). This has "Outs" against everything I can think of, including Eldrazi (plenty of Sac effects, plus 2 Brittle Effigies), can handle Planeswalkers (clumsily, but All is Dust, sided Hexmages and Duress), and it should have enough removal to keep most aggro on the back foot until I can stabilize. I do have one Haunting Echoes to handle a couple of the local players who like to shuffle their graveyard back into the library and reuse everything, which can be tutored up with Liliana before they get too far into their decks, as well.
I used to use a pair of Sadistic Sacraments in the sideboard, and won almost every game that they showed up early in, as I could remove the biggest threats from my opponents' decks. I'm thinking I can get away without them, now, though.
Opinions?
Commander
BBB - Erebos, MBC
GB - Glissa, Recursion Valuetown
UB - Wrexial/Phenax Mill
UBR - Nekusar, Mindwheeler
R - Feldon, God of Reanimation(?!?!)
Kozilek is a terrible choice. You dont have any ramp so you would have to wait till turn 10 to play him, and thats assuming you dont miss a land drop.
With Cosi youve got 6 wincons? Maybe? Id add some more and take Cosi out. I run 4 titans, two persecutors and 4 shades. I know you said you didnt want to shell out for the titans, so maybe something else. Nightmares? Seems kinda vanilla, but its certainly a budget option.
Kozilek is thrown in as anti-mill tech right now, because two of the local players love playing Mill, and he ensures that playing it is very much to their disadvantage. A former incarnation of this deck had 2x Nirkana Revenant and 1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, which worked out well on several occasions, letting Ulamog hit the ground while I'm at 6-7 lands, crush whatever single permanent is causing me the most pain, and then proceed to beat face.
Since I took the Revenants out, I decided to try out Kozilek, as the 4 draw + anti-mill tech could be useful, and he's 1 less CMC than Ulamog. I don't feel that he fits well in the deck, and would rather switch to another Persecutor or get a Grave Titan for the slot, but he's the best option I've got at the moment. If I find that this current iteration of the deck doesn't work for me, I'll be shuffling out the Persecutors and Kozilek to bring in the Nirkana Revenants and Ulamog again, most likely. If a Revenant has hit the field and stuck for even a single turn to attack, I've always won; they're very much a "remove or die" creature, considering MBC's formidable ability to keep the enemy field empty.
Commander
BBB - Erebos, MBC
GB - Glissa, Recursion Valuetown
UB - Wrexial/Phenax Mill
UBR - Nekusar, Mindwheeler
R - Feldon, God of Reanimation(?!?!)
Legacy: Pox | Tiny Leaders: Thalia Hatebears
3 Duress
4 Inquisition
2 Mind Sludge
4 Tendrils of Corruption
2 Corrupt
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Brittle Effigy
4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Sign in Blood
2 Crystal Ball
1 Elixer of Immortality
24 Swamp
1 Duress
4 Vampire Hexmage
3 Consume the Meek
1 Sorin Markov
2 Bloodwitch of Malakir
1 Mind Sludge
3 Pithing Needle
MD
-1 Swamp
-1 Elixer of Immortality
+1 Crystal Ball
+1 Grave Titan
SB
-1 Sorin Markov (This should've been a 3rd corrupt anyway, but I couldn't find one)
-2 Bloodwitch of Malakir
+3 Sadistic Sacrament
Went 3-2 last night. Beat 2 mill decks and 1 runeflare trap/underworld dreams deck. I lost to 2 UW control decks, which should not have happened. I'm pretty salty about that. It was a combination of bad luck and inexperience on my part.
The first UW deck started with leyline of sanctity in play game 1. It was still a good game, but I ended up losing. G2 he never sa a leyline and I steamrolled him. G3 he played the layline and I rolled over.
The 2nd one didn't have leylines. G1 was real close, but I lost it. G2 was also close, but I ended the game with 14 swamps out on the field, so yeah, mana flood much?
I also realized that when playing against UW, if you have the same/similar discard package that I do, just play draw go. And don't lay down a turn 2 gatekeepr just to try and get some damage in. Same with nantuko, unless you duress/IoK on T1, but even then. I think it would be better to let them build up unused removal in their hand while keeping counters in check with duress/IoK and planeswalker in check with PithN and Hexmage and then hit them with a mind sludge (even if you have to wait awhile for it, then start laying beaters. Mistakes made, lessons learned.
But it's a good way to stop planeswalkers indeed.
Legacy: Pox | Tiny Leaders: Thalia Hatebears
It does stop planeswalkers, manlands, KotR, Nantuko Shades!!, a bunch of other things. I actually boarded it in last night to stop Temple Bell in the runeflare trap deck.
Edit: The only things that stop resolved leylines are splashing for another color or All is Dust. Am I right?
Correct. Obviously, for *Mono* Black, the only choice is All is Dust, or Ulamog if you want something that's legendary and even more expensive, CMC-wise. That's actually part of the reason I had been running Ulamog, as he was a useful removal piece when I didn't have any other options. This, of course, assumed the game drew out long enough for me to throw him down.
Commander
BBB - Erebos, MBC
GB - Glissa, Recursion Valuetown
UB - Wrexial/Phenax Mill
UBR - Nekusar, Mindwheeler
R - Feldon, God of Reanimation(?!?!)
You are correct.
So here was my final list that I played.
2x Tectonic Edge
2x Grave Titan
2x Nantuko Shade
3x Vampire nighthawk
3x Abyssal Persecutor
3x Royal Assassin
4x Everflowing Chalice (3 is definitely the right number)
4x Sign in Blood
3x Tendrils of corruption
2x Marsh Casualties
3x Smother
2x Diabolic Tutor
2x Crystal Ball
1x Corrupt
1x Haunting Echoes
4x Vampire Hexmage
3x Duress
3x Doom Blade
2x Pithing Needle
2x Leyline of the Void (completely wrecks Mitotic Slime!)
1x Consume the Meek
I went 2-2, with every single match except for the Vamp one going to game 3, but I blew him out so...
Vampires: I removed all his threats early both games, and just trashed him with Persecutor and Grave Titan
U/W control: This is seriously a winnable matchup. Game 1 I got out turn 4 Percy, which he answered followed by two Grave Titans. I won shortly after. Game 2 he answered every threat I played, and even though I pushed the game to about 20 or so turns, he finished me with Gideon. Game 3 I made a mistake after about 30 turns of us removing threats back and forth. He was at 11 and I was at 13. I had a Corrupt and Diabolic Tutor in hand, and 9 swamps on the board along with a Chalice, and Crystal Ball. He only had Gideon. I shot his Gideon with the Corrupt instead of Tutoring for a swamp, and scrying for another swamp for the win next turn. The game went another 8-10 turns and he won by Martial Coup into Elspeth.
Grixis Control: This was a seriously difficult matchup for me. I had yet to play against this kind of deck and didn't have any idea what to expect. After multiple blightings and multiple Cruel Ultimatums in games 1 and 3 I lost. Game 3 I died when I had 6 lands in play (missed land drops and a pair of Ruinblasters) and two Grave Titans in hand, and to top it off, I died to a single Creeping Tarpit. But now I know how to play against that deck, and I won't make the same mistakes again.
Fauna Shama/Elf deck: This deck can do some really powerful things, but with Marsh Casualties and Consume the meek, they really just get annihilated. Blow up the mana dorks early with spot removal, then late game wait for him to overextend. They only run 3 Path sideboard as their only removal, so you can play all the threats you need, and Consume the Meek or Marsh for the win. I threw down 2 Grave titans in each of the games I won. Awesome!
I realized, this maindeck that I have is really solid. I didn't lose a single game 1. So only a few changes that I have in mind for next week:
Main
-1 Corrupt
-1 Royal Assassin
-1 Everflowing Chalice
-1 Haunting Echoes
-2 Tectonic Edge
+1 Grave Titan
+1 Vampire Nighthawk
+2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
+2 Mystifying Maze
Maybe -1 Swamp +1 more Gatekeeper
SB
-1 Vampire Hexmage
+1 Corrupt
-1 Duress
+1 Mind Sludge?
I don't know what I should put in this last slot. I'm building the mainboard for more aggro, and the sideboard more control, so I think that would be the right call. I feel like adding more theats is the right idea with this deck, pushing the aggressiveness up one notch. Although I did hit turn 4 Abyssal Persecutor followed up by turn 5 Grave Titan more than once tonight. And even one time Iwent Nighthawk, Percy, GT. Whenever Grave Titan hits the board it simply demoralizes the opponent, since removing him doesn't take away the Zombies except for Day or Coup. Its such a good card!
Anyways, feel free to comment on my deck's construction. I'd like to know what I could improve, or just adding different ideas to how the deck or even sideboard plays out.
Thanks for the report and insights, Archie. Too bad about the result. That's gotta be frustrating. Coupla quick comments...
-No MD Sludge? I find this to be my greatest quandary with your list.
-You are really going to drop Echoes? Have you cast it in anger yet or are you just not drawing it and thus not seeing it's power? I guess you have no Tutor effects son the one-of may be kind of random...Still, I have one in my Esper bombs control deck and wiped out a UW control deck in testing, over and over again. Echoes is really, really good.
-I'm not personally a big fan of Tendrils in a non-Tutelage build, but if you like them...they are at least better against RDW than other options, but generally weaker everywhere else.
-I am surprised you ran afoul of Grixis. That deck is pretty much dead now.
/M
Better luck next week.
Niche, I want your list, for starters. If anyone else has a different style of MBC that they would like in the OP, let me know.
3 Tectonic Edge
2 Mystifying Maze
4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Grave Titan
3 Mind Sludge
3 Duress
2 Marsh Casualties
2 Consume Spirit
2 All is Dust
4 Sign in Blood
3 Crystal Ball
1 Haunting Echoes
2 Liliana Vess
4 Vampire Hexmage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Duress
1 Consume the Meek
3 Sadistic Sacrament
3 Corrupt
1 Haunting Echoes
The Hexmages are obviously anti PW, the Needles just random solutions to annoying problems and will come in for all the usual suspects like PW, man lands and Fauna Shaman. I thought about running a random Ulamog and that may still happen as it gives you something against Mill decks (no I don't actually expect to see any) but it also gives you point removal, albeit very, very expensive point removal. Corrupt is anti RDW. The plan there is just to stay alive with point removal and cheap blockers long enough to hit Corrupt for 5 or 6 and pull away a bit. SadSacs come in against the RG big mana decks to rip their Forces, Titans and -- yes, this is no joke -- Warp Worlds.
The last card I cut from the maindeck was Dreamstone Hedron. I haven't seen anyone here talking about this card (for the last few weeks, at least) but figure it can be good for a late game boost to draw some cards and pull away.
Thoughts?
/M
I'm wondering why you put corrupt in the side and not the main. I would swap the Duress and Corrupt. Also tendrils should be a 4 of in any mbc deck. Nantuko Shade is another good creature that puts early pressure on control decks and a good finisher against others. Mystifying Maze is something I'm not sold on quite yet. I'd rather just use brittle effigy.
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
Corrupt is in the side because it doesn't kill a Fauna Shaman early in the game, but Consume does. These could be Tendrils, but Consume hits early PWs if necessary making it the most versatile of the three options IMHO.
Tendrils lost out to Doomblade because, in my meta, I HAVE to be able to kill something getting the Conscription treatment before it kills me and if you miss the opp with Tendrils then all of a sudden your target is going to be out of Tendrils range.
I agree with you on the Maze, but at the moment my deck is really tight and Effigy takes up a spell slot. The Maze, being in a land slot, is "free."
Shade is an excellent creature and I have argued here that he is not just an aggro option, but I don't want too many slots dedicated to creatures and all those that do make the deck have to serve multiple functions. Gatekeeper kills something, Titan... well, Titan is just Titan and I don't need to explain why he gets two spots. That leaves Persecutor and, if you prefer, Shade could get this slot, but Shade is one dimensional. He just attacks or blocks. Whereas Percy wins the fight against BSA and trades with any Titan. He also comes down early enough to be significant against RDW. Shade can't block BSA and only deals with Titans if you have 4 mana open, which I usually don't.
/M
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
Actually I'm really glad that I ended up with the results I did. It gave me the insights to know how to play against these up-and-coming decks a little bit better next time. Game plan, more aggro.
Yeah, no Mind Sludge. I pulled it last second, and I think I'm happy with that choice. It is a great card, but like Blightning, has been slowly getting worse since decks can now recover much faster, and the Baloth and the Leyline. Most people are running creature heavy decks (except U/W), so I'm just letting them hit the board and removing them at that time. I want them to tap out every turn, so that I can tap out every turn.
I am actually running a pair of Diabolic Tutors, but no Liliana. Haunting Echoes is great, but I only had 2 opportunities to use it last night where it would pull more than 4 or 5 cards. It sort of wins the game, but not 100%. The reason I'm pulling it is that each card in most people's decks can win the game single handedly. Also, since I don't have Mind Sludge, I think pulling the Echoes is the right chioce. Most of the time, I found myself tutoring for Grave Titan or Tendrils anyways. Speaking of Tendrils, you don't like them in a non Tutelage build?!?! What?? The card is so good, and has saved my hide many times over. It's okay Tendrils, he didn't mean it.;)
I'm glad I played Grixis, since I know what to expect next time. Aggro thrashes that deck.
Thanks for the comments. As for your deck:
First, your land base is heavy on non-swamps and will definitely hurt your Mind Sludge. Pulling Tec edges for swamps would be the route I would take.
Pull those Consume Spirits! They aren't as good as Corrupt.
Edit: Seeing your comment, I still stand by my statement. It seems to me, that you're trying to get Consume Spirit to do other spell's jobs. And Tendrils and Doom Blade shouldn't be battling for the same slot, they should both be in the 75.
You only have 7 ways to remove 4 Persecutors, so killing them will be a little difficult. I'd try to make room for at least a pair of Tendrils.
I really don't like All is Dust in Monoblack, especially if you aren't able to ramp it out.
Careful with the heavy discard, since the Baloth and the Leyline are starting to run rampant in every sideboard. My $.02. Hope it helps.
One question: What do you do against Jund, Vampires, B/G Rock, and Grixis decks?