I feel like Pyromancer Ascension is a well-positioned card advantage machine, and the endgame involving 2 Call to Minds is unparalleled in this format. I treat it a lot like the way I treat either version of Jace: it helps draw cards and fix board positions, and it helps you get out from behind or get more ahead when you're already ahead. You can win with the card, but it's usually just a good draw engine/board control tool. In contrast, Ascension costs half the mana as a Mind Sculptor and it produces about ten times the card advantage for a small investment of time (while being a more difficult permanent to remove in many circumstances).
I like 4 Into the Roil. That card can get you out of so many situations, and even bring you ahead in many cases. I have been trying to find a deck which can support 4 maindeck Roils, and Pyromancer seems to be the one. I know that it seems kind of slow or it seems like it's card disadvantage, but think of it this way: the first one will usually be unkicked, the second one will usually blow your opponent out and draw a card, and the third one will bounce 2-3 permanents and draw you 2-3 cards. I always want to see a Roil in every game in every match-up, as it is the card that makes me feel safer than any other answer in the entire format. Often, I'm digging for a second or third copy. So considering those facts and the understanding that Pyromancer Ascension demands maximum copies of cards with the same name, I play 4.
I find that Gitaxian Probe is worth maindecking as a strong cantrip. If you think that something along the lines of a removal spell or a counterspell is a better metagame call, then it's probably better than running Probes. I personally board out Probe almost every single match, but I don't really like any of my sideboard tools enough to be maindecked. Maybe Pyroclasm or Misstep could be maindecked if the meta is specific enough in either direction, but I would rather play a cantrip for now.
From my testing so far, Probe is definitely better than See Beyond (although maybe I'm biased here because I've always thought that See Beyond was rather weak) and Steady Progress, which seem to be the other 2 main options for relatively cantrips. What makes it better is that, because it's 0-1 mana, you can play it early like a Preordain or Halimar Depths. It works a bit backwards towards hitting the same goal as those two setup cards. Preordain and Halimar Depths are there to set up your draw and sculpt a hand both proactively and in preparation for what your opponent could do. On the other hand, Probe sets you up by taking a look at your opponent's chess pieces and giving you valuable information about how you should go about playing your spells. I've been playing with Peek in High Tide for years and I cannot stress enough how strong that kind of tool is in any deck which wants the cantrip...so running Probes seems to be a no-brainer. However, like I said earlier, there is only so much space in a deck. If more answers are required, then something like Misstep or Burst or Pyroclasm may be more important.
I try to test most every potential combo and control idea for a PTQ season, so I follow a lot of forum threads in search for information. I figured I should give back to one which has been a help to inspire me. Some good ideas are bouncing around in this thread.
I'd just like to say how great it is to have all these decisions again pre-NPH pyro ascension had very little card choice with Neurok Commando being the only significant difference between decks.
@Terrapin Guts: I remember you saying a while ago that you'd just bought a bunch of splinter twins. I'd been thinking about playing the combo but had totally forgot to actually buy the cards. I jumped on eBay way back when you first said that and bought 10 for $1 each too Thanks man
Have you actually run into that situation where the board is empty except for your commando
This deck does a pretty good job of keeping the board clear. It's not uncommon to do something like Staggershock at the end of their turn and then Arc Trail on your turn.
Oh boy, I didn't even notice that. I thought this card was an upgrade to Peek, but I guess it just has an alternate life cost. I'm almost certain I won't run four probes then, if any.
The issue is spending mana on your turn. 0-1 is okay, but 2 or more is not what we want to be doing (unless we're behind and it's a guaranteed 2-for-1). Also, it's very important to know when to hold your counters and when to hold your burn, and Probe helps with that.
Anyway, I would like it if proponents for the transformative EE/ST sideboard could make valid, meaningful posts as to the benefits of keeping the combo in the SB for G2 rather than MB (besides "it was done that way in extended.")
The combo, to me, seems like a great way to go over the top of Valakut; however, I haven't tested it, so I'm not sure how consistent it really is. Still, I can't get over the fact that that the "stopper" cards are the same: any deck playing green is going to bring in cheap enchantment removal (Nature's Claim, etc.) and any deck with blue is going to bring in counters or bounce, and those cards are still good against the DE+ST combo. This is why I'm not 100% sold on that board plan over Shape Anew or Kiln Fiend.
Honestly, if you're playing that combo, I don't see what Pyromancer Ascension is really doing for you. Why not just board in the PA for G2?
Yeah, I'm not too sure where probe fits in. I was thinking about -2 Koth, -1 Mountain, -1 Island, and just running 20 lands with 8 1cc cantrips and the top of my curve being 3 (Neurok Commando), but Adam W says that 24 lands with 4x Tectonic Edge works great for him and Tectonic Edge is something I'd like to try and include if at all possible. I only cut it before because of the mana issues it caused.
Just FYI, I have tested everything from 20-25 lands. I find 24 with 4 Edges to be a good balance between hitting my color requirements and not being screwed/flooded. You definitely want to be aggressive with your Edges, so they rarely stick around to tap for much mana.
Obviously, Phyrexian mana changes things, but 20 just seems like too few. You still want to hit your land drops in the mid-game, since you can grind out advantage by casting more than one spell per turn. Also, with 24 lands, sorceries are less awkward.
I'm not saying I have it all figured out, but it's been pretty smooth for me.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Just FYI, I have tested everything from 20-25 lands. I find 24 with 4 Edges to be a good balance between hitting my color requirements and not being screwed/flooded. You definitely want to be aggressive with your Edges, so they rarely stick around to tap for much mana.
Obviously, Phyrexian mana changes things, but 20 just seems like too few. You still want to hit your land drops in the mid-game, since you can grind out advantage by casting more than one spell per turn. Also, with 24 lands, sorceries are less awkward.
I'm not saying I have it all figured out, but it's been pretty smooth for me.
I've played 22 lands, no edges in every pyromancer deck I've made so far but you make a persuasive argument. I'll probably run 24 lands, 3 edges this week.
On paper, the deck looks like it has a bit of an identity crisis, perhaps because I have trouble viewing Pyromancer Ascension as anything other than a balls-to-the-walls combo enabler. Either that, or the Pyromancer Engine requires too much compromise to be incorporated into a traditional control deck, which is the impresssion that I get. By building the deck as both a PA deck and a Control deck, I feel like the deck becomes a worse version of both.
That said, if ever there was a deck that truly illustrated your mad love affair with Jace's Ingenuity, this would be it.
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I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Both will put two counters on PA with one copy in the yard. the real question is how much you value getting PA online ASAP.
Volt Charge gets you an extra counter even if you don't have one in the yard, but only deals 6
Staggershock deals 8 (over 2 turns), but doesn't get you the second counter without a staggershock in the yard.
With the current standard which is flush with two toughness or less creatures (hawk, STM), I'd say staggershock will most likely be better.
If you are running Jace (1 or 2), thats another matter entirely. But for the Basic PA that only proliferates for PA itself, Staggershock will most likely be better.
Both will put two counters on PA with one copy in the yard. the real question is how much you value getting PA online ASAP.
Volt Charge gets you an extra counter even if you don't have one in the yard, but only deals 6
Staggershock deals 8 (over 2 turns), but doesn't get you the second counter without a staggershock in the yard.
With the current standard which is flush with two toughness or less creatures (hawk, STM), I'd say staggershock will most likely be better.
If you are running Jace (1 or 2), thats another matter entirely. But for the Basic PA that only proliferates for PA itself, Staggershock will most likely be better.
I run jace b and I think I like staggershock better.
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Sideboard (proof Im probably a dumbass but whatever)
4xBloodchief Ascension
4xMindcrank
4xBlackcleave Cliffs
3xDragonskull Summit
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Both were serviceable in the pre-New Phyrexia builds of Pyromancer Ascension. See Beyond was a cheap-ish cantrip (2CC) that helped you draw more, shuffle back trash, and power up an Ascension with relative ease. The only real drawback is that you might end up not going deep enough. Foresee digs really deep, and when duped off of an Ascension, often fills your hand with so much gas you burn them out the following turn. The drawback is its cost, as it is relatively counter-prone (Spell Pierce, Mana Leak).
I've been brewing a bit with a post-New Phyrexia list, and am trying to figure out if I need to give new slots to Tezzeret's Gambit (seems like a solid card) over Foresee, or if I should go with what's tried and true.
Thought Scour is terrible in BV. How many flashback spells are being run? Say roughly 15. This gives you a roughly 38% chance of milling one flashback spell. And even if you do, you paid one mana to cantrip and dump an overcosted spell. Alchemy, Geistflame, Devil's play, etc. all cost much more to flash back than your average card, so you're not getting full value out of it.
You'd much rather play Ponder. At least that generates a tangible advantage.
To me the digging deeper is totally worth the mana here, how do you guys decide which to go with?
To me, those aren't in competition with each other at all. 4 Mana is a big spell in this deck. Foresee is a game winner type card if PA is active, and if you are casting without an active PA then it's either a last-ditch effort to save game, or you are setting up for next turn, where you do expect to either win or at least be in full control of what's happening.
OTOH, Treasure Hunt and See Beyond, those in are in competition for same slot. And I actually like Treasure Hunt better there. When I don't have a PA yet, I don't like shuffling a non-PA card back into library.
Both Treasure Hunt and See Beyond might be outclassed by Gitaxian Probe though. Don't know yet.
Except the entire deck needs PA to work, and Probe helps you find it. Also, it doesn't stress your mana base. I don't think you could make something that can cast duress on turn 1.
I tried this deck with Probe and it was pretty sweet. It would give you useful information as to whether you should tap out for draw spells or hold up counters, and essentially making the deck smaller is exactly what you want. It isn't as good as Ponder was for the deck, although I think we're going to get ponder back in m12, so with 12 one mana cantrips, this deck could get pretty spicy.
I cannot stress this enough, gitaxian probe is terrible. sure it cantrips so playing it costs you no CA and also gains you none. I didn't take out cantrips though to fit in duress and misstep. You don't want to turn one duress with this deck anyway. you hold it until you are just about to play your pyromancer ascension or just about to burn in for the win. Duress was purpose built for combo protection. Duress is also a card advantage neutral play as well.
Also playing grixis gives you creeping tar pit, and he is stupid good. he will steal games for you.
Mana base issues were solved with the fast lands, running 3 of each with 4 tar pits and dropping Halimar Depths has worked well for me. the fast lands only come in tapped when they aren't as important and with free targeted discard protection tapping out is less of an issue.
Gitaxian Probe-0
Cycle U or 2 life
if you cycle this card, look at your opponent's hand
^does that seriously look good to you?
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that card is sick. play with it and you will see. free spells have always been good adn this one is essential to letting you resolve a combo. knowing an opponants hand makes the rest of your filtering with see beyond, preordain and the like soooooo much better.
this card lets you have a counter on ascension on t2 and activate+cast a copied spell t3....
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Cycle U or 2 life
if you cycle this card, look at your opponent's hand
^does that seriously look good to you?
Seriously? Does running 56 cards in a combo deck sound good? If you want to see a specific card, let alone multiple copies of cards, than you want to run less cards. Its basic Magic theory. Fewer card = better probability. It looks AMAZING. The peek is just an awesome side effect of an amazing card.
Garbage for constructed, costs way too much mana and can't even deal with walkers.
To sum it up. Creature removal doesn't take care of Plainswalkers...how am I to respond to a statment like that? It's like somebody saying division symbols suck at simple addition.
that card is sick. play with it and you will see. free spells have always been good adn this one is essential to letting you resolve a combo. knowing an opponants hand makes the rest of your filtering with see beyond, preordain and the like soooooo much better.
this card lets you have a counter on ascension on t2 and activate+cast a copied spell t3....
Maybe in magical christmas land...free spells aren't always worth playing.
the arguement is not whether looking at your opponents hand is good, it's why are you only doing that instead of also taking something away from him/her. T2 ascension activation is a pipedream. Can it happen? sure. does it happen enough to use as an argument for the card? Nope.
I did play test this card...it's garbage.
Mental misstep is the real deal though, this the only deck where I would maindeck MM, because it hoses turn 1 IoK/Duress and Spell Pierce, which are the bane of this deck.
The real argument for NOT running duress is the manabase, and it's not really a problem. If caw can run UWb and hit UU and WW consistently, then there is no reason this deck can't run URb and never have to hit a single double cost spell. heck you can even run tec edge too and be alright.
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"The smallest seed of regret can bloom into redemption."
Maybe in magical christmas land...free spells aren't always worth playing.
the arguement is not whether looking at your opponents hand is good, it's why are you only doing that instead of also taking something away from him/her. T2 ascension activation is a pipedream. Can it happen? sure. does it happen enough to use as an argument for the card? Nope.
I did play test this card...it's garbage.
Mental misstep is the real deal though, this the only deck where I would maindeck MM, because it hoses turn 1 IoK/Duress and Spell Pierce, which are the bane of this deck.
The real argument for NOT running duress is the manabase, and it's not really a problem. If caw can run UWb and hit UU and WW consistently, then there is no reason this deck can't run URb and never have to hit a single double cost spell. heck you can even run tec edge too and be alright.
Your missing the point of the card. Its lets you run 56 cards instead of 60. The peek effect is NOT the main benefit of this card.
I won't argue its better than duress, but it fits in any combo deck ever conceived, including this one.
Garbage for constructed, costs way too much mana and can't even deal with walkers.
To sum it up. Creature removal doesn't take care of Plainswalkers...how am I to respond to a statment like that? It's like somebody saying division symbols suck at simple addition.
Maybe in magical christmas land...free spells aren't always worth playing.
No.... If it were christmas land you wouldn't care about your opponent spells. Magical Christmas land goes => t1 bolt, t2 pyro, t3 bolt bolt bolt.
Back to what everyone's being trying to tell you: It lets you run less cards in a combo deck that relies on 4 core cards.
Also, I hate to say it, but I believe you aren't using the information advantage the probe gives you to its full potential... When you know what cards your opponent has, if you're good at the deck, you get SUCH an advanage.
I've won games I shouldn't have (once when my opponent had 3 celestial purges in his hand) simply because of gitaxian.
It reduces the element of suprise and chance; thats gold in any deck in magic (regardless of combo/aggro/control)
4 Island
4 Mountain
2 Forest
4 Rootbound Crag
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Evolving Wilds
4 Into the Roil
4 Mana Leak
4 Preordain
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Explore
4 Jace's Ingenuity
2 Call to Mind
4 Pyromancer Ascension
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
4 Mental Misstep
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Pyroclasm
3 Wall of Frost/whatever is best at man-handling Vengevines and Bloodghasts
I feel like Pyromancer Ascension is a well-positioned card advantage machine, and the endgame involving 2 Call to Minds is unparalleled in this format. I treat it a lot like the way I treat either version of Jace: it helps draw cards and fix board positions, and it helps you get out from behind or get more ahead when you're already ahead. You can win with the card, but it's usually just a good draw engine/board control tool. In contrast, Ascension costs half the mana as a Mind Sculptor and it produces about ten times the card advantage for a small investment of time (while being a more difficult permanent to remove in many circumstances).
I like 4 Into the Roil. That card can get you out of so many situations, and even bring you ahead in many cases. I have been trying to find a deck which can support 4 maindeck Roils, and Pyromancer seems to be the one. I know that it seems kind of slow or it seems like it's card disadvantage, but think of it this way: the first one will usually be unkicked, the second one will usually blow your opponent out and draw a card, and the third one will bounce 2-3 permanents and draw you 2-3 cards. I always want to see a Roil in every game in every match-up, as it is the card that makes me feel safer than any other answer in the entire format. Often, I'm digging for a second or third copy. So considering those facts and the understanding that Pyromancer Ascension demands maximum copies of cards with the same name, I play 4.
I find that Gitaxian Probe is worth maindecking as a strong cantrip. If you think that something along the lines of a removal spell or a counterspell is a better metagame call, then it's probably better than running Probes. I personally board out Probe almost every single match, but I don't really like any of my sideboard tools enough to be maindecked. Maybe Pyroclasm or Misstep could be maindecked if the meta is specific enough in either direction, but I would rather play a cantrip for now.
From my testing so far, Probe is definitely better than See Beyond (although maybe I'm biased here because I've always thought that See Beyond was rather weak) and Steady Progress, which seem to be the other 2 main options for relatively cantrips. What makes it better is that, because it's 0-1 mana, you can play it early like a Preordain or Halimar Depths. It works a bit backwards towards hitting the same goal as those two setup cards. Preordain and Halimar Depths are there to set up your draw and sculpt a hand both proactively and in preparation for what your opponent could do. On the other hand, Probe sets you up by taking a look at your opponent's chess pieces and giving you valuable information about how you should go about playing your spells. I've been playing with Peek in High Tide for years and I cannot stress enough how strong that kind of tool is in any deck which wants the cantrip...so running Probes seems to be a no-brainer. However, like I said earlier, there is only so much space in a deck. If more answers are required, then something like Misstep or Burst or Pyroclasm may be more important.
I try to test most every potential combo and control idea for a PTQ season, so I follow a lot of forum threads in search for information. I figured I should give back to one which has been a help to inspire me. Some good ideas are bouncing around in this thread.
@Terrapin Guts: I remember you saying a while ago that you'd just bought a bunch of splinter twins. I'd been thinking about playing the combo but had totally forgot to actually buy the cards. I jumped on eBay way back when you first said that and bought 10 for $1 each too Thanks man
This deck does a pretty good job of keeping the board clear. It's not uncommon to do something like Staggershock at the end of their turn and then Arc Trail on your turn.
The issue is spending mana on your turn. 0-1 is okay, but 2 or more is not what we want to be doing (unless we're behind and it's a guaranteed 2-for-1). Also, it's very important to know when to hold your counters and when to hold your burn, and Probe helps with that.
The combo, to me, seems like a great way to go over the top of Valakut; however, I haven't tested it, so I'm not sure how consistent it really is. Still, I can't get over the fact that that the "stopper" cards are the same: any deck playing green is going to bring in cheap enchantment removal (Nature's Claim, etc.) and any deck with blue is going to bring in counters or bounce, and those cards are still good against the DE+ST combo. This is why I'm not 100% sold on that board plan over Shape Anew or Kiln Fiend.
Honestly, if you're playing that combo, I don't see what Pyromancer Ascension is really doing for you. Why not just board in the PA for G2?
Just FYI, I have tested everything from 20-25 lands. I find 24 with 4 Edges to be a good balance between hitting my color requirements and not being screwed/flooded. You definitely want to be aggressive with your Edges, so they rarely stick around to tap for much mana.
Obviously, Phyrexian mana changes things, but 20 just seems like too few. You still want to hit your land drops in the mid-game, since you can grind out advantage by casting more than one spell per turn. Also, with 24 lands, sorceries are less awkward.
I'm not saying I have it all figured out, but it's been pretty smooth for me.
I've played 22 lands, no edges in every pyromancer deck I've made so far but you make a persuasive argument. I'll probably run 24 lands, 3 edges this week.
On paper, the deck looks like it has a bit of an identity crisis, perhaps because I have trouble viewing Pyromancer Ascension as anything other than a balls-to-the-walls combo enabler. Either that, or the Pyromancer Engine requires too much compromise to be incorporated into a traditional control deck, which is the impresssion that I get. By building the deck as both a PA deck and a Control deck, I feel like the deck becomes a worse version of both.
That said, if ever there was a deck that truly illustrated your mad love affair with Jace's Ingenuity, this would be it.
If PA has a counter on it and you play Volt Charge you get a second counter even if there's none in your graveyard.
Staggershock puts two counters on PA over two turns if one is in the graveyard.
Is there a winner here or is it meta\personal preference?
Depends on two things -
1. Do you have a Jace Beleren in play?
2. Does your opponent have more than 1 creature with toughness 2 or less?
Staggershock is played because it's a possible 2-for-1 removal spell, not because it powers up PA on its own.
PS - I am going to work on the primer this weekend; it's gotten hopelessly out of date.
Volt Charge gets you an extra counter even if you don't have one in the yard, but only deals 6
Staggershock deals 8 (over 2 turns), but doesn't get you the second counter without a staggershock in the yard.
With the current standard which is flush with two toughness or less creatures (hawk, STM), I'd say staggershock will most likely be better.
If you are running Jace (1 or 2), thats another matter entirely. But for the Basic PA that only proliferates for PA itself, Staggershock will most likely be better.
UR Storm WUBRG Sunnyside Up W Death+Taxes BR 7->0:60 Discard
EDH
GU Vig RWU Zedruu BR Olivia
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I run jace b and I think I like staggershock better.
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I am a little confused as to what cards are most expendable to sideboard out in the most common matches: valakut, caw-blade, vampires, boros, rug
I havnt decided on a decklist yet but it would prolly be commando or kiln version for now until NPH.
To me the digging deeper is totally worth the mana here, how do you guys decide which to go with?
Meh, Decklist (though I am considering a Grixis Pyromancer, it worked in extended for me)
Lands
4xScalding Tarn
3xHalimar Depths
2xTec Edge
8xMountain
6xIsland
4xGitaxian Probe
4xPreordain
4xPyromancer Ascension
4xVolt Charge
4xLighting Bolt
4xSee Beyond
3xInto the Roil
4xMana Leak
4xBurst Lighting
2xStaggershock
Sideboard (proof Im probably a dumbass but whatever)
4xBloodchief Ascension
4xMindcrank
4xBlackcleave Cliffs
3xDragonskull Summit
for he is the messenger between the spheres
and the traveler between the realms of the living and the dead.
He shall summon forth the ancient ones
and wake them from their deathly slumber
then shall the elder signs be shattered.
Trade Thread
I've been brewing a bit with a post-New Phyrexia list, and am trying to figure out if I need to give new slots to Tezzeret's Gambit (seems like a solid card) over Foresee, or if I should go with what's tried and true.
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4 Neurok Commando
Damage 12
2 Burst Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Staggershock
Dig 9
4 Preordain
2 See Beyond
3 Foresee
2 Call To Mind
3 Into The Roil
4 Mana Leak
4 Pyromancer Ascension
Land 22
7 Island
7 Mountain
4 Halimar Depths
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Deceiver Exarch
2 Volt Charge
2 Gitaxian Probe
3 Tezzeret's Gambit
4 Splinter Twin
To me, those aren't in competition with each other at all. 4 Mana is a big spell in this deck. Foresee is a game winner type card if PA is active, and if you are casting without an active PA then it's either a last-ditch effort to save game, or you are setting up for next turn, where you do expect to either win or at least be in full control of what's happening.
OTOH, Treasure Hunt and See Beyond, those in are in competition for same slot. And I actually like Treasure Hunt better there. When I don't have a PA yet, I don't like shuffling a non-PA card back into library.
Both Treasure Hunt and See Beyond might be outclassed by Gitaxian Probe though. Don't know yet.
I cannot stress this enough, gitaxian probe is terrible. sure it cantrips so playing it costs you no CA and also gains you none. I didn't take out cantrips though to fit in duress and misstep. You don't want to turn one duress with this deck anyway. you hold it until you are just about to play your pyromancer ascension or just about to burn in for the win. Duress was purpose built for combo protection. Duress is also a card advantage neutral play as well.
Also playing grixis gives you creeping tar pit, and he is stupid good. he will steal games for you.
Mana base issues were solved with the fast lands, running 3 of each with 4 tar pits and dropping Halimar Depths has worked well for me. the fast lands only come in tapped when they aren't as important and with free targeted discard protection tapping out is less of an issue.
Gitaxian Probe-0
Cycle U or 2 life
if you cycle this card, look at your opponent's hand
^does that seriously look good to you?
UBANTBU
UBRWDDFTWRBU
WUBRGT.E.S.GRBUW
this card lets you have a counter on ascension on t2 and activate+cast a copied spell t3....
Seriously? Does running 56 cards in a combo deck sound good? If you want to see a specific card, let alone multiple copies of cards, than you want to run less cards. Its basic Magic theory. Fewer card = better probability. It looks AMAZING. The peek is just an awesome side effect of an amazing card.
Rogue players for the win!
Maybe in magical christmas land...free spells aren't always worth playing.
the arguement is not whether looking at your opponents hand is good, it's why are you only doing that instead of also taking something away from him/her. T2 ascension activation is a pipedream. Can it happen? sure. does it happen enough to use as an argument for the card? Nope.
I did play test this card...it's garbage.
Mental misstep is the real deal though, this the only deck where I would maindeck MM, because it hoses turn 1 IoK/Duress and Spell Pierce, which are the bane of this deck.
The real argument for NOT running duress is the manabase, and it's not really a problem. If caw can run UWb and hit UU and WW consistently, then there is no reason this deck can't run URb and never have to hit a single double cost spell. heck you can even run tec edge too and be alright.
UBANTBU
UBRWDDFTWRBU
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Your missing the point of the card. Its lets you run 56 cards instead of 60. The peek effect is NOT the main benefit of this card.
I won't argue its better than duress, but it fits in any combo deck ever conceived, including this one.
Rogue players for the win!
No.... If it were christmas land you wouldn't care about your opponent spells. Magical Christmas land goes => t1 bolt, t2 pyro, t3 bolt bolt bolt.
Back to what everyone's being trying to tell you: It lets you run less cards in a combo deck that relies on 4 core cards.
Also, I hate to say it, but I believe you aren't using the information advantage the probe gives you to its full potential... When you know what cards your opponent has, if you're good at the deck, you get SUCH an advanage.
I've won games I shouldn't have (once when my opponent had 3 celestial purges in his hand) simply because of gitaxian.
It reduces the element of suprise and chance; thats gold in any deck in magic (regardless of combo/aggro/control)
4x Halimar Depths
4x Scalding Tarn
8x Mountain
6x Island
Draw / Counter / Utility
4x Preordain
4x Mana Leak
4x Into the Roil
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Burst Lightning
4x Arc Trail
4x Staggershock
Creatures
4x Neurok Commando
Enchantments
4x Pyromancer Ascension
Planeswalkers
2x Koth of the Hammer
4x Spell Pierce
4x Mark of Mutiny
2x Teetering Peaks
4x Slagstorm
1x Red Sun's Zenith
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