I was running a Koth list and a sligh list for about 20 games each vs several of my friends decks prepping for Saturday. First off, I did not test vs Twin because honestly, I do not fear it at all. We have had the answers for this matchup for a while and nothing m12 offers brings much more to the table to make it any different. 3 combusts, 2 GftT, and 3 Act of Aggressions side come in and make this match up a joke. I run 4 Dragonskull Summits and 3 Blackcleave Cliffs for black mana (trust me, you will see this more common coming soon, Specially when sac lands rotate and the format slows down)
Some of the pro's are already doing it.
matchups:
B/U Control- joke of a match up, just side in acts and you are fine.
W/U Control-Can be troublesome. If it gets into late game and the successfully get vensor and gideon on the board, we lose. Sligh build did better, I went 4-1 with sligh and 3-2 with koth. We absolutely need more answers for Kor Firewalker.
Valakut- Sligh wrecked it mostly thanks to Furnace scamp and pretty much getting some nut draws. 5-0 Koth did ok 4-1, not what I was hoping for but can be worked on. I probably want to run 20 or so matches against this alone to get a more balanced win/loss b/c i cant get those hands all the time
Boros- won game 1, lost games 2-5 with BOTH DECKS. Match up needs some work
Here are my concerns overall
kor firewalker. 4 Dismembers is not enough answers to make it after game1 vs this match up.My suggestions is to add Perilious Myr to sideboard for the next 2 months just to have 4 more answers. This would also help in the mirror vs the refugee.
Emberhauler Vs. Furnace Scamp
Furnace Scamp shined in control matchups and against a leyline on the board, however, It was not as good against Valakut and Boros. Games 2-4 of Valakut, he always had multiple walls out after siding in 4 wall of tanglecords. So the scamps could never get through. In boros, I didn't get a first turn Furnace Scamp out any game so it is hard to judge.
Searing Blaze, Burst Lightning, Staggershock, Lightning Bolt, Arc Trail, Incinerate, and for Laughs but our future burn, Shock, Volt Charge
Our burns ranking of importance
Lightning Bolt
Incinerate
Staggershock
Searing Blaze (overall,I think this is the correct spot, but in aggro matchups, I would rank this right under LB)
Burst lightning
Arc trail (however, if in sideboard, can be bumped up in importance vs aggro)
Lets try to get this under control. So many different builds floating around, There has to be a balance. I don't think getting rid of Koth is the answer but I also don't think Koth IS the answer. Mana barbs (run 3 in my side in sligh) does not cut it vs W/U, it kept getting O. Ringed. I dont know, I think Hero of Oxid Ridge might be the right 4 drop but not as a 1 of. we need him to get through so I would say a 3 of just like Koth.
thank you for grinding out a bunch of games this is much needed in our fourm
my only problem right now with red deck is that we have access to so many great cards just playing one over the other will tip our MU for one deck in the right direction but set us back in another
if you grind out more games can you suggest your best sly and koth builds so we all can test and discuss the lists
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thank you for grinding out a bunch of games this is much needed in our fourm
my only problem right now with red deck is that we have access to so many great cards just playing one over the other will tip our MU for one deck in the right direction but set us back in another
if you grind out more games can you suggest your best sly and koth builds so we all can test and discuss the lists
This is the list we decided on after all of our testing. I am still on the fence between Furnace Scamp and Emberhauler. It is a 50/50 split between what is better vs what matchups.
Emberhauler- shines vs Aggro/Mirror/Twin
Furnace Scamp- shines vs control matchups and Valakut(but only turn 1 drop on the play, so not very relavent)
Seeing as how I think I will see the mirror alot, I chose to go with Emberhauler
Sideboard Explanation- After play testing the refugee, I have not liked him in the mirror. The mirror is such a toss up with who is on the play, who gets a turn 2 shrine, etc, that I think it is best to stay consistent and rely on your dismembers and myrs to take care of the refugees they play against you.
Mirror- Kiln Fiend, 1 Dismember, 2 Go for the throat (this saves you from wasting burn on their creatures and gives you more outs for refugee)
W/U- Kiln Fiend, 1 Dismember, 2 Go for the throat (assuming leyline and kor firewalker come in) I am still not sure it is enough to stop firewalker. That card makes me nervious.
Valakut- Kiln Fiend, and Flame Slash. This will wreck Valakut, especially if you get both in opening hand along side a Searing blaze haha. Turn 1, GG, turn 2 KF, turn 3, flameslash their wall, in response Searing Blaze it, Swing for 11 + 3 from SB and the 4 from GG turns 1 and 2. Puts Valakut at 2 life going into turn 4 with an empty board.
Twin- Flame Slash, Combust, 1 Dismember 2 GftT....Easy matchup in my opinion
MBC- Act of Aggression........... Wow, so sick in this Match up.
GOD PLEASE SOMEONE HELP WITH MIRROR. Is the refugee our only hope? I was told by a pro source that Kiln Fiend should come in to be a threat to take away their burn and to help keep lavamancer on the board. He also said Refugee was an option but didnt like it.
If you see baneslayer from blue white would you board in combusts?
what would you SB out in these MU?
How much have you tested Chandra's Phoenix and what is your pros/cons for him that make him miss the cu
That is a tough call. My thinking is that game 1 they would see medismember their baneslayer and so they would prob side out baneslayer for Kor firewalker. They will keep their Wall of Omens in for card draw and early protection. Most lists I have seen do not run Baneslayer. They run a combination of W/U Titans.
As far as what I side out. Here you go:
Sideboard Explanation- After play testing the refugee, I have not liked him in the mirror. The mirror is such a toss up with who is on the play, who gets a turn 2 shrine, etc, that I think it is best to stay consistent and rely on your dismembers and myrs to take care of the refugees they play against you.
Mirror- OUT 4 Goblin Guide 2 Incinerate Kiln Fiend, 1 Dismember, 2 Go for the throat (this saves you from wasting burn on their creatures and gives you more outs for refugee)
W/U- OUT 3 Emberhauler 3 Searing Blaze Kiln Fiend, 1 Dismember, 2 Go for the throat (assuming leyline and kor firewalker come in) I am still not sure it is enough to stop firewalker. That card makes me nervious.
Valakut- OUT 2 Emberhayler 4 Staggershock Kiln Fiend, and Flame Slash. This will wreck Valakut, especially if you get both in opening hand along side a Searing blaze haha. Turn 1, GG, turn 2 KF, turn 3, flameslash their wall, in response Searing Blaze it, Swing for 11 + 3 from SB and the 4 from GG turns 1 and 2. Puts Valakut at 2 life going into turn 4 with an empty board.
Twin- OUT 3 Koth of the Hammer 4 Incinerate 2 Stagger Shock Flame Slash, Combust, 1 Dismember 2 GftT....Easy matchup in my opinion
MBC- Act of Aggression........... Wow, so sick in this Match up
For the mirror do you feel that you like leaving grim lavamacer in to be a lightning rod for your opponents burn is better than having goblin guide give them a land or 2
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I like ember hauler in the kut matchup, hes a guy that gets in for 4 with a peaks, he also takes out battlements on his own. I usually side out my staggershocks, and toss in my dismembers for this matchup. I run a creature heavier list, so, i get in there with my creatures, let them get clasmed, then i burn for the finish. Not a bad matchup at all.
The lists you are testing against sound really odd.
Valakut with 4 wall of Tanglechord? Most lists run 0.
UW with Venser?
Boros isn't even a real deck anymore, I don't know why you were testing against it, or why you were losing to it with either build. You are faster than them game 1 and have infinite control options game 2 and 3 until you grind them out with Chandra's Phoenix or Shrine or Koth.
Kor Firewalker isn't really a card I'm afraid of. You have 8 ways to kill it(Dismember and Shrine), and racing it isn't unheard of...especially now that we have Shrine and Chandra's Phoenix. It is also only a 2-3 of in most sideboards, and while the 'hope they don't have it' plan isn't the best, 1 Firewalker has almost never been enough to beat me.
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THE THOUGHTHAMMER HAS SPOKEN!
Current Standard:
Boros
Current Legacy:
Merfolk
UW Stoneforge
MonoUDelver(in progress)
The lists you are testing against sound really odd.
Valakut with 4 wall of Tanglechord? Most lists run 0.
UW with Venser?
Boros isn't even a real deck anymore, I don't know why you were testing against it, or why you were losing to it with either build. You are faster than them game 1 and have infinite control options game 2 and 3 until you grind them out with Chandra's Phoenix or Shrine or Koth.
Kor Firewalker isn't really a card I'm afraid of. You have 8 ways to kill it(Dismember and Shrine), and racing it isn't unheard of...especially now that we have Shrine and Chandra's Phoenix. It is also only a 2-3 of in most sideboards, and while the 'hope they don't have it' plan isn't the best, 1 Firewalker has almost never been enough to beat me.
Exactly this. I take most testing results like these with a grain of salt. You were testing against bad lists, and you were obviously playing poorly against the Boros player if you were losing. You can control boros very effectivly. It's no slight on you, just work towards getting better.
None the less, threads like these are rather useless, as they don't give us valid information. Unless your testing with an optimized list of your own against other lists you would ACTUALLY SEE and both players are very competant, the results are going to be skewed.
Goblin Fireslinger is better than arsonist and spikeshot elder. it might not be quite as explosive, but with it and grim lavamancer you can easily push damage through creatures. not to mention a repeatable source or removal against x/1s which is good against vamps and probably boros, although I haven seen a boros list since it was the original caw-blade.
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Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Fireslinger is players only.
Phoenix seems well good.
my bad lol. still might be useful. Although I will not turn 1 pick it in draft now....
Chandra's Phoenix is a house but I would at least run 16 burn spells with it, but this should be a requirement in RDW anyway.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Exactly this. I take most testing results like these with a grain of salt. You were testing against bad lists, and you were obviously playing poorly against the Boros player if you were losing. You can control boros very effectivly. It's no slight on you, just work towards getting better.
None the less, threads like these are rather useless, as they don't give us valid information. Unless your testing with an optimized list of your own against other lists you would ACTUALLY SEE and both players are very competant, the results are going to be skewed.
Actually, wall of Tanglecords is in many Valakut sideboards. They side them in and take out cobras against aggro and burn. Specially in the late days of cawblade, wall of tanglecords were used to block the sworded birds.
In regards to my play, I play at FNM's with people that top 32 and top 16 on a regular basis at all SCG events. In the past 3 weeks of playing RDW standard, I am 15-2 match play losing only to the mirror.
The lists you are testing against sound really odd.
Valakut with 4 wall of Tanglechord? Most lists run 0.
UW with Venser?
Boros isn't even a real deck anymore, I don't know why you were testing against it, or why you were losing to it with either build. You are faster than them game 1 and have infinite control options game 2 and 3 until you grind them out with Chandra's Phoenix or Shrine or Koth.
Kor Firewalker isn't really a card I'm afraid of. You have 8 ways to kill it(Dismember and Shrine), and racing it isn't unheard of...especially now that we have Shrine and Chandra's Phoenix. It is also only a 2-3 of in most sideboards, and while the 'hope they don't have it' plan isn't the best, 1 Firewalker has almost never been enough to beat me.
First off, RDW hasnt been part of tier 1 in a long time therefore no reason to see Kor Firewalker. Everyone sided vs cawblade, valakut and vamps. RDW will be in the top 3 decks played- I would bet money on it. So you will see Kor Firewalker as a 4 of. Also, it will be in a deck running 8+ mainboard counters.
In reguards to Venser, yes, he is in the m12 B/W control as is Mini jace and Gideon. This deck is being highly promoted by Patrick Chapin, AJ Sacher, Edgar Flores, and Alex Bertoncini (3 of which are top 3 on the SCG open series) who are all traditional B/W players. So, before you say I jank, maybe do some research.
Oh, and by the way, Boros used to be quite the aggresive deck with viability but got shut doown just because it could not beat caw-blade. Expect to see a high showing of it. Look at Channelfireball's most recent list and test it out. It is quite good. Oh and guess what, 4 Kor Firewalkers in the sideboard.
Actually, wall of Tanglecords is in many Valakut sideboards. They side them in and take out cobras against aggro and burn. Specially in the late days of cawblade, wall of tanglecords were used to block the sworded birds.
In the late days of Caw-Blade, nobody was playing Valakut. If you check out LSV's, Chapins, or any other pros lists there are a grand total of 0 Wall of Tanglecord in them. See, you aren't the only one capable of looking at pros lists.
First off, RDW hasnt been part of tier 1 in a long time therefore no reason to see Kor Firewalker. Everyone sided vs cawblade, valakut and vamps. RDW will be in the top 3 decks played- I would bet money on it. So you will see Kor Firewalker as a 4 of. Also, it will be in a deck running 8+ mainboard counters.
This is quite simply, untrue. RDW has been a major player on the SCG Open series for the past few months, and people still never boarded Firewalkers, nor will they have 4x now. People are much more concerned with beating Twin and Valakut than us, for the most part.
In reguards to Venser, yes, he is in the m12 B/W control as is Mini jace and Gideon. This deck is being highly promoted by Patrick Chapin, AJ Sacher, Edgar Flores, and Alex Bertoncini (3 of which are top 3 on the SCG open series) who are all traditional B/W players. So, before you say I jank, maybe do some research.
AJ, Edgar, and Alex, while good players, are NOT good builders. They simply take their cues from the real pros and don't worry much beyond tweaking. As for Chapin, he enjoys his 'cute' interactions, believe me. If you check out the top 4s of recent Magic-League trials, the non-Venser versions have been far out performing the Venser versions.
I am also going to teach you a very, very important lesson, right now. Just becaue a pro(or 'pro' in the case of three of your names) posts a list, or an idea, does not make it good in the longer term, or even the short term. The higher level metagame for which they design and test their decks is not the same as you will face in FNM, or even SCGs or PTQs. Chapin is especially guilty of posting lists that aren't quite...optimal.
Oh, and by the way, Boros used to be quite the aggresive deck with viability but got shut doown just because it could not beat caw-blade. Expect to see a high showing of it. Look at Channelfireball's most recent list and test it out. It is quite good. Oh and guess what, 4 Kor Firewalkers in the sideboard.
Boros can never win now without Stoneforge Mystic. It made the deck, and the passing of it broke the deck. They aren't resilient enough to beat a sweeper, fast enough to beat Valakut, nor do they have enough reach to beat Deceiver Exarch decks. They are a strictly worse version of our deck, and you should never lose to them.
Bolded responses. I have no doubt that your testing results are fine...against the lists you are playing against. But either the lists are wrong, or the players are making poor decisions, because nearly everyone else, including Sullivan, Spagnolo, and Jason Ford, that I have talked to has had nearly polar opposite results in certain areas.
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THE THOUGHTHAMMER HAS SPOKEN!
Current Standard:
Boros
Current Legacy:
Merfolk
UW Stoneforge
MonoUDelver(in progress)
@Tokwana - While I agree with many of your points, I have to say that it seems a bit contradictory to say that RDW has been a major player in Magic League Trials but that people won't be looking to beat it. I'm pretty sure people know the potential of RDW in this new M11/M12 metagame. I myself am kicking myself thinking of a deck that can beat it and still have a good game vs. other decks. Right now I'm thinking UW, which is a deck I've stayed away from ever since after Jund ruled. I'm actually thinking about playing UW, which honestly I don't like to play, just to give myself a chance vs. RDW. Maybe I could play Valakut instead and tune it for RDW.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Actually, wall of Tanglecords is in many Valakut sideboards. They side them in and take out cobras against aggro and burn. Specially in the late days of cawblade, wall of tanglecords were used to block the sworded birds.
It's interesting that you say this, because Valaklut typically runs 0 Lotus Cobras also. Not sure if you are looking at 3 months old pre-ban lists?
Oh, and by the way, Boros used to be quite the aggresive deck with viability but got shut doown just because it could not beat caw-blade. Expect to see a high showing of it. Look at Channelfireball's most recent list and test it out. It is quite good. Oh and guess what, 4 Kor Firewalkers in the sideboard.
Boros used to be a deck when Stoneforge Mystic was legal. Without that it just hasn't got the lategame potential it did before, which was pretty much its only strength compared to RDW and Vampires. It doesn't run enough removal to kill Fauna Shaman reliably, and it's also too slow to have a chance versus Valakut. It's really a non-deck right now.
Also, when you say thing like "B/U Control- joke of a match up, just side in acts and you are fine." you lose a lot of credibility, because everyone who has tested this matchup know's it's far from a freewin. Act/Mark can steal a game here and there yes, but a lot of the time they will win without ever playing a single Wurmcoil. The combination of discard, cheap removal and Night Hawk can be tough, and if they play Sphinx/Grave Titan Acto of Agression isn't nearly as useful. Especially as they will frequently know you have it due to Inquisition.
I am also going to teach you a very, very important lesson, right now. Just becaue a pro(or 'pro' in the case of three of your names) posts a list, or an idea, does not make it good in the longer term, or even the short term. The higher level metagame for which they design and test their decks is not the same as you will face in FNM, or even SCGs or PTQs. Chapin is especially guilty of posting lists that aren't quite...optimal.
I couldn't agree more, which is why testing against Venser is legit as he pops up at FNMs and PTQs all the freekin time! If you aren't playing on the PT or a GP you have to prep for the casual-competative enviroment. Net-decking without knowing your meta never works.
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I was running a Koth list and a sligh list for about 20 games each vs several of my friends decks prepping for Saturday. First off, I did not test vs Twin because honestly, I do not fear it at all. We have had the answers for this matchup for a while and nothing m12 offers brings much more to the table to make it any different. 3 combusts, 2 GftT, and 3 Act of Aggressions side come in and make this match up a joke. I run 4 Dragonskull Summits and 3 Blackcleave Cliffs for black mana (trust me, you will see this more common coming soon, Specially when sac lands rotate and the format slows down)
Some of the pro's are already doing it.
matchups:
B/U Control- joke of a match up, just side in acts and you are fine.
W/U Control-Can be troublesome. If it gets into late game and the successfully get vensor and gideon on the board, we lose. Sligh build did better, I went 4-1 with sligh and 3-2 with koth. We absolutely need more answers for Kor Firewalker.
Valakut- Sligh wrecked it mostly thanks to Furnace scamp and pretty much getting some nut draws. 5-0 Koth did ok 4-1, not what I was hoping for but can be worked on. I probably want to run 20 or so matches against this alone to get a more balanced win/loss b/c i cant get those hands all the time
Boros- won game 1, lost games 2-5 with BOTH DECKS. Match up needs some work
Here are my concerns overall
kor firewalker. 4 Dismembers is not enough answers to make it after game1 vs this match up.My suggestions is to add Perilious Myr to sideboard for the next 2 months just to have 4 more answers. This would also help in the mirror vs the refugee.
Emberhauler Vs. Furnace Scamp
Furnace Scamp shined in control matchups and against a leyline on the board, however, It was not as good against Valakut and Boros. Games 2-4 of Valakut, he always had multiple walls out after siding in 4 wall of tanglecords. So the scamps could never get through. In boros, I didn't get a first turn Furnace Scamp out any game so it is hard to judge.
Searing Blaze, Burst Lightning, Staggershock, Lightning Bolt, Arc Trail, Incinerate, and for Laughs but our future burn, Shock, Volt Charge
Our burns ranking of importance
Lightning Bolt
Incinerate
Staggershock
Searing Blaze (overall,I think this is the correct spot, but in aggro matchups, I would rank this right under LB)
Burst lightning
Arc trail (however, if in sideboard, can be bumped up in importance vs aggro)
Creatures
Goblin Guide
Grim Lavamancer
Emberhauler /Furnace Scamp
Chandra's Phoenix
Spike Shot Elder
Refugee (sideboard)
Perilous Myr (sideboard?)
Lets try to get this under control. So many different builds floating around, There has to be a balance. I don't think getting rid of Koth is the answer but I also don't think Koth IS the answer. Mana barbs (run 3 in my side in sligh) does not cut it vs W/U, it kept getting O. Ringed. I dont know, I think Hero of Oxid Ridge might be the right 4 drop but not as a 1 of. we need him to get through so I would say a 3 of just like Koth.
4 Drops
Koth
Mana Barbs
Hero of Oxid Ridge
I dont know, I am just frustrated.
my only problem right now with red deck is that we have access to so many great cards just playing one over the other will tip our MU for one deck in the right direction but set us back in another
if you grind out more games can you suggest your best sly and koth builds so we all can test and discuss the lists
accomplishments:T8 ptq Philly (Edison 180ish people)
Rpre ban RDWR
more to come in the future!
This is the list we decided on after all of our testing. I am still on the fence between Furnace Scamp and Emberhauler. It is a 50/50 split between what is better vs what matchups.
Emberhauler- shines vs Aggro/Mirror/Twin
Furnace Scamp- shines vs control matchups and Valakut(but only turn 1 drop on the play, so not very relavent)
Seeing as how I think I will see the mirror alot, I chose to go with Emberhauler
4 Goblin Guide
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Ember Hauler
Instants
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Incinerate
4 Staggershock
3 Searing Blaze
3 Dismember
4 Shrine of Burning Rage
Planeswalkers
3 Koth of the Hammer
Land
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Dragonskull Summit
3 Teetering Peaks
3 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
7 Mountains
3 Act of Aggression
3 Combust
3 Flame Slash
3 Kiln Fiend
1 Dismember
2 Go for the Throat
Sideboard Explanation- After play testing the refugee, I have not liked him in the mirror. The mirror is such a toss up with who is on the play, who gets a turn 2 shrine, etc, that I think it is best to stay consistent and rely on your dismembers and myrs to take care of the refugees they play against you.
Mirror- Kiln Fiend, 1 Dismember, 2 Go for the throat (this saves you from wasting burn on their creatures and gives you more outs for refugee)
W/U- Kiln Fiend, 1 Dismember, 2 Go for the throat (assuming leyline and kor firewalker come in) I am still not sure it is enough to stop firewalker. That card makes me nervious.
Valakut- Kiln Fiend, and Flame Slash. This will wreck Valakut, especially if you get both in opening hand along side a Searing blaze haha. Turn 1, GG, turn 2 KF, turn 3, flameslash their wall, in response Searing Blaze it, Swing for 11 + 3 from SB and the 4 from GG turns 1 and 2. Puts Valakut at 2 life going into turn 4 with an empty board.
Twin- Flame Slash, Combust, 1 Dismember 2 GftT....Easy matchup in my opinion
MBC- Act of Aggression........... Wow, so sick in this Match up.
GOD PLEASE SOMEONE HELP WITH MIRROR. Is the refugee our only hope? I was told by a pro source that Kiln Fiend should come in to be a threat to take away their burn and to help keep lavamancer on the board. He also said Refugee was an option but didnt like it.
what would you SB out in these MU?
How much have you tested Chandra's Phoenix and what is your pros/cons for him that make him miss the cu
accomplishments:T8 ptq Philly (Edison 180ish people)
Rpre ban RDWR
more to come in the future!
That is a tough call. My thinking is that game 1 they would see medismember their baneslayer and so they would prob side out baneslayer for Kor firewalker. They will keep their Wall of Omens in for card draw and early protection. Most lists I have seen do not run Baneslayer. They run a combination of W/U Titans.
As far as what I side out. Here you go:
Sideboard Explanation- After play testing the refugee, I have not liked him in the mirror. The mirror is such a toss up with who is on the play, who gets a turn 2 shrine, etc, that I think it is best to stay consistent and rely on your dismembers and myrs to take care of the refugees they play against you.
Mirror- OUT 4 Goblin Guide 2 Incinerate Kiln Fiend, 1 Dismember, 2 Go for the throat (this saves you from wasting burn on their creatures and gives you more outs for refugee)
W/U- OUT 3 Emberhauler 3 Searing Blaze Kiln Fiend, 1 Dismember, 2 Go for the throat (assuming leyline and kor firewalker come in) I am still not sure it is enough to stop firewalker. That card makes me nervious.
Valakut- OUT 2 Emberhayler 4 Staggershock Kiln Fiend, and Flame Slash. This will wreck Valakut, especially if you get both in opening hand along side a Searing blaze haha. Turn 1, GG, turn 2 KF, turn 3, flameslash their wall, in response Searing Blaze it, Swing for 11 + 3 from SB and the 4 from GG turns 1 and 2. Puts Valakut at 2 life going into turn 4 with an empty board.
Twin- OUT 3 Koth of the Hammer 4 Incinerate 2 Stagger Shock Flame Slash, Combust, 1 Dismember 2 GftT....Easy matchup in my opinion
MBC- Act of Aggression........... Wow, so sick in this Match up
accomplishments:T8 ptq Philly (Edison 180ish people)
Rpre ban RDWR
more to come in the future!
Valakut with 4 wall of Tanglechord? Most lists run 0.
UW with Venser?
Boros isn't even a real deck anymore, I don't know why you were testing against it, or why you were losing to it with either build. You are faster than them game 1 and have infinite control options game 2 and 3 until you grind them out with Chandra's Phoenix or Shrine or Koth.
Kor Firewalker isn't really a card I'm afraid of. You have 8 ways to kill it(Dismember and Shrine), and racing it isn't unheard of...especially now that we have Shrine and Chandra's Phoenix. It is also only a 2-3 of in most sideboards, and while the 'hope they don't have it' plan isn't the best, 1 Firewalker has almost never been enough to beat me.
Current Standard:
Boros
Current Legacy:
Merfolk
UW Stoneforge
MonoUDelver(in progress)
Exactly this. I take most testing results like these with a grain of salt. You were testing against bad lists, and you were obviously playing poorly against the Boros player if you were losing. You can control boros very effectivly. It's no slight on you, just work towards getting better.
None the less, threads like these are rather useless, as they don't give us valid information. Unless your testing with an optimized list of your own against other lists you would ACTUALLY SEE and both players are very competant, the results are going to be skewed.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
my bad lol. still might be useful. Although I will not turn 1 pick it in draft now....
Chandra's Phoenix is a house but I would at least run 16 burn spells with it, but this should be a requirement in RDW anyway.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Actually, wall of Tanglecords is in many Valakut sideboards. They side them in and take out cobras against aggro and burn. Specially in the late days of cawblade, wall of tanglecords were used to block the sworded birds.
In regards to my play, I play at FNM's with people that top 32 and top 16 on a regular basis at all SCG events. In the past 3 weeks of playing RDW standard, I am 15-2 match play losing only to the mirror.
First off, RDW hasnt been part of tier 1 in a long time therefore no reason to see Kor Firewalker. Everyone sided vs cawblade, valakut and vamps. RDW will be in the top 3 decks played- I would bet money on it. So you will see Kor Firewalker as a 4 of. Also, it will be in a deck running 8+ mainboard counters.
In reguards to Venser, yes, he is in the m12 B/W control as is Mini jace and Gideon. This deck is being highly promoted by Patrick Chapin, AJ Sacher, Edgar Flores, and Alex Bertoncini (3 of which are top 3 on the SCG open series) who are all traditional B/W players. So, before you say I jank, maybe do some research.
Oh, and by the way, Boros used to be quite the aggresive deck with viability but got shut doown just because it could not beat caw-blade. Expect to see a high showing of it. Look at Channelfireball's most recent list and test it out. It is quite good. Oh and guess what, 4 Kor Firewalkers in the sideboard.
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/feature-article-from-bant-to-boros/
Bolded responses. I have no doubt that your testing results are fine...against the lists you are playing against. But either the lists are wrong, or the players are making poor decisions, because nearly everyone else, including Sullivan, Spagnolo, and Jason Ford, that I have talked to has had nearly polar opposite results in certain areas.
Current Standard:
Boros
Current Legacy:
Merfolk
UW Stoneforge
MonoUDelver(in progress)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)It's interesting that you say this, because Valaklut typically runs 0 Lotus Cobras also. Not sure if you are looking at 3 months old pre-ban lists?
Boros used to be a deck when Stoneforge Mystic was legal. Without that it just hasn't got the lategame potential it did before, which was pretty much its only strength compared to RDW and Vampires. It doesn't run enough removal to kill Fauna Shaman reliably, and it's also too slow to have a chance versus Valakut. It's really a non-deck right now.
Also, when you say thing like "B/U Control- joke of a match up, just side in acts and you are fine." you lose a lot of credibility, because everyone who has tested this matchup know's it's far from a freewin. Act/Mark can steal a game here and there yes, but a lot of the time they will win without ever playing a single Wurmcoil. The combination of discard, cheap removal and Night Hawk can be tough, and if they play Sphinx/Grave Titan Acto of Agression isn't nearly as useful. Especially as they will frequently know you have it due to Inquisition.
I couldn't agree more, which is why testing against Venser is legit as he pops up at FNMs and PTQs all the freekin time! If you aren't playing on the PT or a GP you have to prep for the casual-competative enviroment. Net-decking without knowing your meta never works.