I did some testing with Scullers tonight and I really think they are good in here. I have them in the board atm but I had to make a few changes to the mana base to make sure I could cast them turn 2. As long as you play a UB land followed by a Plains it will not effect your gameplan at all. However it does take up cycling turns but in the matchup where you bring it in, you have all day to do that anyways.
I am not having no issues in the Uw matchup. As long as you are able to get ahead on mana and stick a Oblivion ring on jace you should be fine. Honestly a turn 2 threat is more annoying. I am debating Agony Warp in the main. I would actually suggest that you bring in Jace Beleren in that matchup.
I wouldn't worry too much about graveyard hate as you can just bring in more removal and cast your threats due to Chalice's.
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On the flip side I am having issues with jund when it curves out perfectly. My main issue is turn 2 leech followed by multiple bloodbraids that hit more threats. Something I am actually going to be doing for gameday is going up to 4 DoJ in the main and dropping the paths for Journey to Nowhere due to the lack of RDW in my area. This would make my board look like this:
4 Tidehollow Sculler - Control//Slower Midrange
3 Path to Exile - RDW//Junk
3 Negate - Countermagic
1 Sanguine Bond - Any matchup where I need to kill them in one turn.
4 Flashfreeze - RDW//Eldrazi//Jund//Mythic
Thought Scour is terrible in BV. How many flashback spells are being run? Say roughly 15. This gives you a roughly 38% chance of milling one flashback spell. And even if you do, you paid one mana to cantrip and dump an overcosted spell. Alchemy, Geistflame, Devil's play, etc. all cost much more to flash back than your average card, so you're not getting full value out of it.
You'd much rather play Ponder. At least that generates a tangible advantage.
Sphinx of the Steel wind is huge in the Jund matchup. I agree sculler is lackluster. Might consider cutting black from my build, but I find I rarely run into mana inconsistencies except when hit by 2+ tectonic edge. I also find executioners cap is a good 2-of SB against naya, ww, boros, and any allies.
I would absolutely not recommend playing 24 mana sources, I play 23 and often find this deck ends up with more than it can play. With so many cheap cyclers and card draw (spreading seas + courier's capsules), I can play a starting hand with 2 mana in it and consistently hit my mana drops.
After many hours of playtesting today and yesterday,the hardest matchup for this deck is unquestionably UW control. I'm probably going to ditch vedalken outlander in my sideboard (he doesnt do squat against RDW, purge and flashfreeze hold the fort), in favor of more counters, possibly spell pierce to protect the combo. I still do about 60% win post SB, but its not enough. Theyre usually long drawn out matches where I go midgame rather than for a combo finish.
RDW not a particularly hard matchup post SB. The only risk is you usually drop the 1st game so you cant afford mana screw or a opening hand w/o purge or flashfreeze. Purge is huge against Hell's Thunder, prevents the unearth.
Ex-cap is huge for longer matches, I've used the same ex-cap 3 times in one game against a UW felidar sovereign deck playing counters and sweepers. Not that great against the fast decks though, too time consuming and black-intensive, will probably board down to 2, or take out if I go UW.
Haven't encountered more than a few decks boarding in bojuka bog on MTGO, lets hope it doesn't catch on!!
I would use dispel to protect your combo in the control match ups, because ussualy, they will try to negate your Vaults. Spell pierce won't protect you from anything in the control matchup. They will cast day of judgment, and have more than enough mana to pay the 2 mana.
Agreed on the land count.
Agreed on U/W being most difficult. It runs 7 counters that target Open the Vaults, and 4 to 5 sweepers (which, when played after you play open the vaults, makes you almost auto-lose). I know because I play both U/W control and Vaults Combo.
In the U/W matchup. I ussualy play my creatures like regular (not cycling them to open the vaults) to apply early to mid game pressure when the deck is vulnerable. I let them waste thier DoJ on those played creatures, and then play open the vaults.
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Modern (I collect the format):
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron WDeath and Taxes WSoul Sisters RWG Pod Combo URSplinter Twin URStorm RBurn
Just an idea: how about some Luminarch Ascensions in the sideboard against UW control?
Luminarch Ascension really has no place in a deck like this. Sure it can be brought back with OtV, but we aren't really in the game of preventing a bunch of damage. By the time it would be online, even in a perfect game scenario, it wouldn't be active until 1 turn past OtV, and we should already be in control at that point. If anything, it is a marginal win-more, if that.
Yeah whoever stated that my sideboard was short was right, didn't realize it til I ended up at FNM, so went ahead and purchased another Celestrial Purge and Negate.
Well took first in FNM, with that list last night, although it somewhat felt like a hollow victory. Match were Jund x2, Boss, some janky homebrew, and Jacerator.
Junds were a romplstomp, wining both 2-0. Didn't even side board one game lol.
Boss Naya 2-1, First game went a good 15 turns, with me wasting a turn 7 OtV, on 2 O-Rings and an Journey, cause I couldn't pull any DoJs. But in the end it was 2 landed Steel Winds that put that match up in my favor. Second game he blew up before I could get anything on the board, and once again couldn't pull a Day. Third game, wasn't much of a chance, turn 3 DoJ, which I was finally happy to see, and then kept his mana dorks down with Ex Caps, and Journeys until a turn 6 OtV won it.
Homebrew 2-0 I wont even go into the match against the homebrew, because honestly it wasn't worth it. From what little I saw, it looked like a Bant Allies deck.
Jacerator 2-0, First game I was quite surprised with how efficient that deck really is. After a counter of a turn 5 OtV, I decided to just blitz, and won on the back of 2 Glassdusts. Was funning because lured him out on the last turn, by tapping out to play 2 OtV, since I figured he had counter, once both of them were countered I dropped a 0CC non kicked Chalice, boosting the Glassdusts for lethal. Second game wasn't too special, just brought in the Negates, and was able to win a counter war on turn 9 for OtV and won 2 turns later.
Overall not a bad night, but there was one vicious U/W control deck that I had hoped to play against. Once the night was over I asked him to play for ☺☺☺☺s and giggles, and he declined, WTF is that!!!! I was pissed needless to say. Got a tourney Wed night at a different shop, right now he has 83 entries, and if he can get to 125 the owner is going to have a case of WWK, as the prize pool with first place getting 4 boxes....So here's hoping that we'll get the required people. And of course I'll be posting results from that one.
Oh and if anyone cared, pulled a Jace, and 2 Abyssals, so not an entire waste.
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@ SgtD - I am strongly against a U/W build, it just doesn't give us the options that the extra B does.
@ Tidehollow - I guess that's more of a personal preference. I myself don't find it necessary, but I can see the point of it being in there for early disruption, and/or during an OtV, to ensure your creatures stick. I've tried them out, and they were always lack luster for me. I'd rather drop a T2 Capsule, Spreading, Chalice, or Journey.
And lastly Deathmark vs Executioner's Capsule, I use to run the Marks SB, and then switched to Ex Cap, which as you can see actually made their way into the MD. Ex cap can take everything out that the Mark can, plus some. I can see where it is a turn later early game, if you cast one turn with no mana left open, you would have to activate it next turn, but it can be done at instant speed, which sometimes is a blessing. Plus of course the obvious synergy with the deck as a whole, I for one have used Caps multiple times in games. I don't have too many Vamps in my meta, hence why I took them MD, as hardly ever a dead card, but I could see if you did, not using them. Other than that, I don't believe there is any reason, to run Marks over Ex Caps.
I went to my local Gameday today w/ my Open the Vaults; went 3-2 and did manage to Top 8 - nabbed 7th - I believe there was only 25 people (small turnout due to a big Yu-Gi-Oh tournament at the same shop). Nobody really prepared against this and everytime I started cycling Glassdust and Architects people were facepalming themselves.
Anyway, here's how the matchups went down:
Matchup 1 vs B/W Hybrid (w/ Vamps)
Not sure exactly what deck this was - guy said it's a B/W Vampire hybrid. I didn't get to see much of it because I was able to control what Plains he managed to get out w/ Spreading Seas and throw good stuff in the GY until I could Vault - pretty much T6 each game. I do know he ran Tidehollow though (not sure why he didn't rip my Vault).
2-0 (1-0)
Matchup 2 vs Grixis Control Hybrid
Again, not a full Grixis control because he did use Sedraxis Specters.
G1 - good, close game. He ran Spreading Seas and managed to put them on my Arcane Sanctum's to slow me down for a bit. He did resolve a Snapper which was a pest for the whole game and I never drew a DoJ. However, I did manage to finally Vault w/ a problem - I had 2 JtN in my GY and had to use them on my creatures - only unvaulted 3. I won G1 in the end after a long, drawn-out game after I did survive several Blightnings and a Cruel.
G2 - pretty much same as G1 except the snapper came out early and I couldn't draw a DoJ to get rid of it. He managed to get out enough Spreading Seas so I didn't have enough W mana to Vault. He won G2.
G3 - this was brutal as he sided in his Ruinblasters which absolutely killed me - I'd get out a 4th or 5th land and he'd blast it away. Eventually I was 1 turn away from using OtV w/ Sphinx of Steel Wind, 2X Filigree and an Inkwell coming back which would have been GG but another Spreading Seas got me. Very close here and he just had a better draw then me - was 1 turn away from winning here. This guy ended up taking 2nd - good player.
1-2 (1-1)
Matchup 3 vs Vamps
Not much needs to be said here; I couldn't put anything worthwhile in the GY and put anything out on the battlefield to stop his Vamps. All my Courier's Capsule's and Cycles just didn't bring me anything worthwhile and I got stomped both games. Complete backfire and just a case of bad draw. G2 I actually used OtV to bring out 1 Glassdust and that was it just to have a chump out there for his Vamp army. If I would have drawn my Spreading Seas or JtN then it would have been different but I couldn't control the board early enough for this one.
0-2 (1-2)
At this point I'm thinking 1-4 and a "Pity Pack" as they called it at my shop - all the "losers" get a pity booster.
Matchup 4 vs Magical Christmas Land
I've actually never faced this deck before so I didn't know what to expect. I didn't see much of it because like the first matchup it was pretty much over at T6 for both games. He manage to get out a Lotus Cobra in both and produce some creatures but this time I controlled the board - DoJ T4, Sphinx T5 into OtV T6 for 3X Filigree (27 life) - GG.
2-0 (2-2)
Matchup 5 vs WW
Pretty much how I expected - I took early damage and stabilized after another T4 DoJ, T5 Sphinx, T6 OtV - in comes an Inkwell and 2 more Filigrees. G2 I controlled from the beginning - Spreading Seas on his 2 Plains and JtN on whatever creature came down. He manage to resolve an Elspeth and her 2nd ability did manage to kill a Filigree but it didn't matter. I actually was able to kill w/ the Colannade in G2.
2-0 (3-2)
I'm surprised I didn't face Jund at all - probably 10-13 people were running it out of 25 total (not quite half), and I played some decks I haven't played before - Grixis and Christmas Land. With more people I don't think I would have had a Top 8 finish, but w/ only 25 I probably got it tiebreakers because the games I won were 2-0 wipeouts - although I could have very easily gone 4-1 if the Grixis player hadn't had a God-draw w/ Ruinblasters. I had a ton of fun w/ this though, and I highly recommend anybody to run this if they are thinking of taking something to a tourney that nobody would expect. I didn't see any GY hate all day. The Jund decks I managed to watch weren't running Jund Charms, either.
how do u usually sb against certain decks and is 19 land really enough
Its funny you ask this. I use to only run 14! But yeah 19+Borderposts and Chalices it runs fine. Easily hit turn 5 Sphinx turn 6 OtV, with a lot of the time both of them a turn earlier. I'm on my phone right now but when I get home I'll list my sideboarding.
@Akkountent
I was with ya quite a bit on the ☺☺☺☺ty no DoJ this week, not sure what happened there. Don't think I wanna go to 4, but was somewhat upset.
I do agree this deck is extremly fun to play. I use to play Grixis Control, and that just isn't anywhere near the fun this is.
One of your matchups further pushes the idea of running all/most basic lands. I've never really had a problem with getting a color, other than maybe black, that I don't think we have a need with all the nons. With MB Vamps, U/W Control, WW all running Tectonic Edge, and Jund, RDW, Barely Boros, and some Grixis Counter/Burn all running Riunblaster, I believe it's just safer to play basics.
Ok well my fingers hurt like hell from touching this little screen, so I'll bid farewell til I get home.
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One of your matchups further pushes the idea of running all/most basic lands. I've never really had a problem with getting a color, other than maybe black, that I don't think we have a need with all the nons. With MB Vamps, U/W Control, WW all running Tectonic Edge, and Jund, RDW, Barely Boros, and some Grixis Counter/Burn all running Riunblaster, I believe it's just safer to play basics.
Given this, I'm wondering what the thought behind running the borderposts is? I get that it would technically dodge Ruinblaster / Tectonic Edge, but is it worth it to open up for say, O Ring or Maelstrom Pulse?
The advantage gained seems marginal because you only run one of each, so does it make the deck less consistent?
Hi, I'm really interested in this deck but I'm wondering why nobody seems to be running sphynx of Jwar Isle it does extreame amounts of work in other decks that can run it
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STANDARD
U/B kontroll
U/W Kontroll
:symb::symu::symg: In A :symr::symu::symg:
EXTENDED
Jund's second rampage! :symb::symr::symg:
Given this, I'm wondering what the thought behind running the borderposts is? I get that it would technically dodge Ruinblaster / Tectonic Edge, but is it worth it to open up for say, O Ring or Maelstrom Pulse?
The advantage gained seems marginal because you only run one of each, so does it make the deck less consistent?
You know I've thought about what you just said, and even after thinking back to last night, I honestly don't believe I saw a Borderpost more than twice all night. I believe I will make a switch with them. Maybe something like -2 Borderposts +1 Swamp +1Chalice.
Hi, I'm really interested in this deck but I'm wondering why nobody seems to be running sphynx of Jwar Isle it does extreame amounts of work in other decks that can run it
Reason that we don't run Jwar Jwar, is mainly because we have another 6CC drop that we want to hit, every Turn 5-6. Jwar while is a great creature in the current standard, really doesn't do anything for our deck. I'd personally rather land a OtV, or Sharuum or wait a turn or 2 and get a Filigree, or Steel Wind. Plus Jwar Jwar doesn't come back via OtV, nor Sharuum.
I'll like the Tier 1 decks, and a couple 1.5s for sake of space.
I'm considering Outlander in the board, but you don't even bring it in for Jund. I don't really want to commit the sideboard slots for something that I only want in 2 matchups.
Outlander is an artifact, but I can't help but think I'd rather have Firewalker if I did play a pro red dude..
I'm considering Outlander in the board, but you don't even bring it in for Jund. I don't really want to commit the sideboard slots for something that I only want in 2 matchups.
Outlander is an artifact, but I can't help but think I'd rather have Firewalker if I did play a pro red dude..
I've thought about dropping one Outlander from the board, not sure what I'd replace it with though.
Honestly, they aren't needed verse Jund. I believe without a doubt in my mind they are our easy match-up.
The Firewalker would be better over the Outlander of course, but more often than not the WW would be harder to get than WU. Atleast for me.
The reason they are in there for those 2 match ups is because one of those match ups is our second worse. Now don't get me wrong, with the addition of the Rest for the Wearys I don't know if we need to stack all the red hate like previously. It would take more playtesting verse RDW to get a confident answer. Unfortunately none of my local buddies plays RDW, so I normally only see it in tourneys. I don't call MTGO, reasonable playtesting...too many wannabes running PT decks.
If someone would want to test the Firewalker, or if someone has easy access to RDW, then I would love if they could test them out and let us know how it works, or even if we need any Pro-Red verse them. I may just be scared, and semi-unfamiliar with the match up, and indeed it might be costing me some SB spots I can devote to something else.
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I've thought about dropping one Outlander from the board, not sure what I'd replace it with though.
Honestly, they aren't needed verse Jund. I believe without a doubt in my mind they are our easy match-up.
The Firewalker would be better over the Outlander of course, but more often than not the WW would be harder to get than WU. Atleast for me.
The reason they are in there for those 2 match ups is because one of those match ups is our second worse. Now don't get me wrong, with the addition of the Rest for the Wearys I don't know if we need to stack all the red hate like previously. It would take more playtesting verse RDW to get a confident answer. Unfortunately none of my local buddies plays RDW, so I normally only see it in tourneys. I don't call MTGO, reasonable playtesting...too many wannabes running PT decks.
If someone would want to test the Firewalker, or if someone has easy access to RDW, then I would love if they could test them out and let us know how it works, or even if we need any Pro-Red verse them. I may just be scared, and semi-unfamiliar with the match up, and indeed it might be costing me some SB spots I can devote to something else.
If RDW/Boros are completely unwinnable matches, even with the outlander out of the side, there probably isn't that much point to using them. I think that something that should be investigated is putting Path to Exile in the board instead.
Instant speed removal is highly relevant versus these matchups, and esp for RDW, they can't do that much with the extra land. It'd also give us some more flexibility in other matchups, potentially. At the very least it'd have to be more flexible than a Pro-Red Bear.
Just my thoughts on it, I should try and get some testing done against RDW, my friend's got the cards to build it, so might as well.
If RDW/Boros are completely unwinnable matches, even with the outlander out of the side, there probably isn't that much point to using them. I think that something that should be investigated is putting Path to Exile in the board instead.
Instant speed removal is highly relevant versus these matchups, and esp for RDW, they can't do that much with the extra land. It'd also give us some more flexibility in other matchups, potentially. At the very least it'd have to be more flexible than a Pro-Red Bear.
Just my thoughts on it, I should try and get some testing done against RDW, my friend's got the cards to build it, so might as well.
RDW isn't completely unwinnable, but it is one of our harder MU. Some people are adamant about PoE over Journey, on here. So maybe Paths wouldn't be too bad for a sideboard minus the outlanders, or it may just be that we don't even need anything else due to the Rests, Freezes and Purges. And it might allow for something, though I have no clue what, to be put in to help push U/W in our favor.
That will be my next mission, lol, find what helps versus Chaplin.
EDIT: .......All you Guests reading this thread......
Sign up and lay down some Ideas or results you've had with this deck. More heads are always better.
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RDW isn't completely unwinnable, but it is one of our harder MU. Some people are adamant about PoE over Journey, on here. So maybe Paths wouldn't be too bad for a sideboard minus the outlanders, or it may just be that we don't even need anything else due to the Rests, Freezes and Purges. And it might allow for something, though I have no clue what, to be put in to help push U/W in our favor.
That will be my next mission, lol, find what helps versus Chaplin.
Cheap counters - Dispel/Spell Pierce - possibly? I lost a game the other day because I had to go all in with an Open the Vaults that got shot down by negate. Dispel woulda had it.
Cheap counters - Dispel/Spell Pierce - possibly? I lost a game the other day because I had to go all in with an Open the Vaults that got shot down by negate. Dispel woulda had it.
Well, that might be something to look at. I'd definitly go Dispel over Spell Pierce because any competent control player always has additional mana open, and that's mainly the only decks we'd side in counters for. It does limit what you can hit, but I guess with 3 Negates and 3 Dispels, you would have a reasonable chance to stop whatever it was you wanted...DoJ, Jace, or counters.
I still need some supporting evidence that we don't need as much red hate in the SB for RDW, but I'll playtest some Dispels in their place against Chaplin Control this week.
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I'm definitely going to run this this week, so I'm hoping for a little info about how you actually play. When are you cycling vs playing bodies? Whats a mulligan and what isn't? Whats the answer for malakir bloodwitch? And finally, why JtN instead of PtE? Thanks!
Hi everyone, Im just gonna share the version of Open the vaults that I used on yesterdays gameday at our local shop(36 people). I managed to nab 2nd place but was possible for 1st but I felt kind when my opponent offered to split the top prize after were on 1-1. I don't like being a douche and gave the newbie(just on his 2nd tourney) the win, though we split the prize. I got 4-1 on swiss round and conceded the finals.
My only loss was against jund when I wasn't able to hardcast the sphinx of the steel wind and it was just sitting there in my hand. Overall, I loved it's performance, best configuration I had. I'll be adding a 3x marsh flats and a swamp, so I can hard cast steel wind and also the architects.
I'm still a bit iffy with the SB because, the only cards that i was able to sideboarded in were flashfreeze+outlander(against jund) and additional DOJ.
And also, I find journey to nowhere better than path to exile. 1. I can keep my opponent off tempo, making my spreading seas optimal, 2. I can use it as fodder for discarding.
Really? I play both UW Chapin and Open The Vaults. And I get my O-Rings on a regular basis. I got 3 in my deck.
I'm not saying people don't play them. Might be a difference in decklists. And it's also not uncommon to not see one copy of a card you only have 3 of. In any case, while LA is removable, it's certainly not a bad strategy. I've lost games to those decks where the only nonland permanent they have is jace.
Luminarch Ascension really has no place in a deck like this. Sure it can be brought back with OtV, but we aren't really in the game of preventing a bunch of damage. By the time it would be online, even in a perfect game scenario, it wouldn't be active until 1 turn past OtV, and we should already be in control at that point. If anything, it is a marginal win-more, if that.
Yeah whoever stated that my sideboard was short was right, didn't realize it til I ended up at FNM, so went ahead and purchased another Celestrial Purge and Negate.
Well took first in FNM, with that list last night, although it somewhat felt like a hollow victory. Match were Jund x2, Boss, some janky homebrew, and Jacerator.
Junds were a romplstomp, wining both 2-0. Didn't even side board one game lol.
Boss Naya 2-1, First game went a good 15 turns, with me wasting a turn 7 OtV, on 2 O-Rings and an Journey, cause I couldn't pull any DoJs. But in the end it was 2 landed Steel Winds that put that match up in my favor. Second game he blew up before I could get anything on the board, and once again couldn't pull a Day. Third game, wasn't much of a chance, turn 3 DoJ, which I was finally happy to see, and then kept his mana dorks down with Ex Caps, and Journeys until a turn 6 OtV won it.
Homebrew 2-0 I wont even go into the match against the homebrew, because honestly it wasn't worth it. From what little I saw, it looked like a Bant Allies deck.
Jacerator 2-0, First game I was quite surprised with how efficient that deck really is. After a counter of a turn 5 OtV, I decided to just blitz, and won on the back of 2 Glassdusts. Was funning because lured him out on the last turn, by tapping out to play 2 OtV, since I figured he had counter, once both of them were countered I dropped a 0CC non kicked Chalice, boosting the Glassdusts for lethal. Second game wasn't too special, just brought in the Negates, and was able to win a counter war on turn 9 for OtV and won 2 turns later.
Overall not a bad night, but there was one vicious U/W control deck that I had hoped to play against. Once the night was over I asked him to play for ☺☺☺☺s and giggles, and he declined, WTF is that!!!! I was pissed needless to say. Got a tourney Wed night at a different shop, right now he has 83 entries, and if he can get to 125 the owner is going to have a case of WWK, as the prize pool with first place getting 4 boxes....So here's hoping that we'll get the required people. And of course I'll be posting results from that one.
Oh and if anyone cared, pulled a Jace, and 2 Abyssals, so not an entire waste.
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@ SgtD - I am strongly against a U/W build, it just doesn't give us the options that the extra B does.
@ Tidehollow - I guess that's more of a personal preference. I myself don't find it necessary, but I can see the point of it being in there for early disruption, and/or during an OtV, to ensure your creatures stick. I've tried them out, and they were always lack luster for me. I'd rather drop a T2 Capsule, Spreading, Chalice, or Journey.
And lastly Deathmark vs Executioner's Capsule, I use to run the Marks SB, and then switched to Ex Cap, which as you can see actually made their way into the MD. Ex cap can take everything out that the Mark can, plus some. I can see where it is a turn later early game, if you cast one turn with no mana left open, you would have to activate it next turn, but it can be done at instant speed, which sometimes is a blessing. Plus of course the obvious synergy with the deck as a whole, I for one have used Caps multiple times in games. I don't have too many Vamps in my meta, hence why I took them MD, as hardly ever a dead card, but I could see if you did, not using them. Other than that, I don't believe there is any reason, to run Marks over Ex Caps.
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STANDARD
U/B kontroll
U/W Kontroll
:symb::symu::symg: In A :symr::symu::symg:
EXTENDED
Jund's second rampage! :symb::symr::symg:
I am not having no issues in the Uw matchup. As long as you are able to get ahead on mana and stick a Oblivion ring on jace you should be fine. Honestly a turn 2 threat is more annoying. I am debating Agony Warp in the main. I would actually suggest that you bring in Jace Beleren in that matchup.
I wouldn't worry too much about graveyard hate as you can just bring in more removal and cast your threats due to Chalice's.
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On the flip side I am having issues with jund when it curves out perfectly. My main issue is turn 2 leech followed by multiple bloodbraids that hit more threats. Something I am actually going to be doing for gameday is going up to 4 DoJ in the main and dropping the paths for Journey to Nowhere due to the lack of RDW in my area. This would make my board look like this:
4 Tidehollow Sculler - Control//Slower Midrange
3 Path to Exile - RDW//Junk
3 Negate - Countermagic
1 Sanguine Bond - Any matchup where I need to kill them in one turn.
4 Flashfreeze - RDW//Eldrazi//Jund//Mythic
Agreed on the land count.
Agreed on U/W being most difficult. It runs 7 counters that target Open the Vaults, and 4 to 5 sweepers (which, when played after you play open the vaults, makes you almost auto-lose). I know because I play both U/W control and Vaults Combo.
In the U/W matchup. I ussualy play my creatures like regular (not cycling them to open the vaults) to apply early to mid game pressure when the deck is vulnerable. I let them waste thier DoJ on those played creatures, and then play open the vaults.
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron
WDeath and Taxes
WSoul Sisters
RWG Pod Combo
URSplinter Twin
URStorm
RBurn
4 island
1 swamp
4 arcane sanctum
4 glacial fortress
2 celestial colonade
1 drowned catacombs
3 sphinx of the lost truth
4 filigree angel
4 glassdusk hulk
4 architects of will
3 merfolk looter
1 sharuum
3 day of judgement
3 fieldmist borderpost
4 open the vaults
3 journey to nowhere
3 oblivion ring
Sideboard currently is
4 spreading seas
4 negate
4 tidehollow sculler
2 valeron outlander
The main deck is consistent but still need to work on the sideboard
Probs should put one sanguine bond in there
It started off as white blue and has just started splashing black so manabase is a bit shaky
UW control is hard to play well but the other matchups are pretty good
Standard
Goblins
Extended
Nothing
Legacy
Spring tide
MY twitter
Http://twitter.com/Piggyboy1
How did you do with this at FNM?
Luminarch Ascension really has no place in a deck like this. Sure it can be brought back with OtV, but we aren't really in the game of preventing a bunch of damage. By the time it would be online, even in a perfect game scenario, it wouldn't be active until 1 turn past OtV, and we should already be in control at that point. If anything, it is a marginal win-more, if that.
Yeah whoever stated that my sideboard was short was right, didn't realize it til I ended up at FNM, so went ahead and purchased another Celestrial Purge and Negate.
Well took first in FNM, with that list last night, although it somewhat felt like a hollow victory. Match were Jund x2, Boss, some janky homebrew, and Jacerator.
Junds were a romplstomp, wining both 2-0. Didn't even side board one game lol.
Boss Naya 2-1, First game went a good 15 turns, with me wasting a turn 7 OtV, on 2 O-Rings and an Journey, cause I couldn't pull any DoJs. But in the end it was 2 landed Steel Winds that put that match up in my favor. Second game he blew up before I could get anything on the board, and once again couldn't pull a Day. Third game, wasn't much of a chance, turn 3 DoJ, which I was finally happy to see, and then kept his mana dorks down with Ex Caps, and Journeys until a turn 6 OtV won it.
Homebrew 2-0 I wont even go into the match against the homebrew, because honestly it wasn't worth it. From what little I saw, it looked like a Bant Allies deck.
Jacerator 2-0, First game I was quite surprised with how efficient that deck really is. After a counter of a turn 5 OtV, I decided to just blitz, and won on the back of 2 Glassdusts. Was funning because lured him out on the last turn, by tapping out to play 2 OtV, since I figured he had counter, once both of them were countered I dropped a 0CC non kicked Chalice, boosting the Glassdusts for lethal. Second game wasn't too special, just brought in the Negates, and was able to win a counter war on turn 9 for OtV and won 2 turns later.
Overall not a bad night, but there was one vicious U/W control deck that I had hoped to play against. Once the night was over I asked him to play for ☺☺☺☺s and giggles, and he declined, WTF is that!!!! I was pissed needless to say. Got a tourney Wed night at a different shop, right now he has 83 entries, and if he can get to 125 the owner is going to have a case of WWK, as the prize pool with first place getting 4 boxes....So here's hoping that we'll get the required people. And of course I'll be posting results from that one.
Oh and if anyone cared, pulled a Jace, and 2 Abyssals, so not an entire waste.
---------------------------------------
@ SgtD - I am strongly against a U/W build, it just doesn't give us the options that the extra B does.
@ Tidehollow - I guess that's more of a personal preference. I myself don't find it necessary, but I can see the point of it being in there for early disruption, and/or during an OtV, to ensure your creatures stick. I've tried them out, and they were always lack luster for me. I'd rather drop a T2 Capsule, Spreading, Chalice, or Journey.
And lastly Deathmark vs Executioner's Capsule, I use to run the Marks SB, and then switched to Ex Cap, which as you can see actually made their way into the MD. Ex cap can take everything out that the Mark can, plus some. I can see where it is a turn later early game, if you cast one turn with no mana left open, you would have to activate it next turn, but it can be done at instant speed, which sometimes is a blessing. Plus of course the obvious synergy with the deck as a whole, I for one have used Caps multiple times in games. I don't have too many Vamps in my meta, hence why I took them MD, as hardly ever a dead card, but I could see if you did, not using them. Other than that, I don't believe there is any reason, to run Marks over Ex Caps.
Currently Playing
Standard
UBU/B ControlBU
EDH
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
Anyway, here's how the matchups went down:
Matchup 1 vs B/W Hybrid (w/ Vamps)
Not sure exactly what deck this was - guy said it's a B/W Vampire hybrid. I didn't get to see much of it because I was able to control what Plains he managed to get out w/ Spreading Seas and throw good stuff in the GY until I could Vault - pretty much T6 each game. I do know he ran Tidehollow though (not sure why he didn't rip my Vault).
2-0 (1-0)
Matchup 2 vs Grixis Control Hybrid
Again, not a full Grixis control because he did use Sedraxis Specters.
G1 - good, close game. He ran Spreading Seas and managed to put them on my Arcane Sanctum's to slow me down for a bit. He did resolve a Snapper which was a pest for the whole game and I never drew a DoJ. However, I did manage to finally Vault w/ a problem - I had 2 JtN in my GY and had to use them on my creatures - only unvaulted 3. I won G1 in the end after a long, drawn-out game after I did survive several Blightnings and a Cruel.
G2 - pretty much same as G1 except the snapper came out early and I couldn't draw a DoJ to get rid of it. He managed to get out enough Spreading Seas so I didn't have enough W mana to Vault. He won G2.
G3 - this was brutal as he sided in his Ruinblasters which absolutely killed me - I'd get out a 4th or 5th land and he'd blast it away. Eventually I was 1 turn away from using OtV w/ Sphinx of Steel Wind, 2X Filigree and an Inkwell coming back which would have been GG but another Spreading Seas got me. Very close here and he just had a better draw then me - was 1 turn away from winning here. This guy ended up taking 2nd - good player.
1-2 (1-1)
Matchup 3 vs Vamps
Not much needs to be said here; I couldn't put anything worthwhile in the GY and put anything out on the battlefield to stop his Vamps. All my Courier's Capsule's and Cycles just didn't bring me anything worthwhile and I got stomped both games. Complete backfire and just a case of bad draw. G2 I actually used OtV to bring out 1 Glassdust and that was it just to have a chump out there for his Vamp army. If I would have drawn my Spreading Seas or JtN then it would have been different but I couldn't control the board early enough for this one.
0-2 (1-2)
At this point I'm thinking 1-4 and a "Pity Pack" as they called it at my shop - all the "losers" get a pity booster.
Matchup 4 vs Magical Christmas Land
I've actually never faced this deck before so I didn't know what to expect. I didn't see much of it because like the first matchup it was pretty much over at T6 for both games. He manage to get out a Lotus Cobra in both and produce some creatures but this time I controlled the board - DoJ T4, Sphinx T5 into OtV T6 for 3X Filigree (27 life) - GG.
2-0 (2-2)
Matchup 5 vs WW
Pretty much how I expected - I took early damage and stabilized after another T4 DoJ, T5 Sphinx, T6 OtV - in comes an Inkwell and 2 more Filigrees. G2 I controlled from the beginning - Spreading Seas on his 2 Plains and JtN on whatever creature came down. He manage to resolve an Elspeth and her 2nd ability did manage to kill a Filigree but it didn't matter. I actually was able to kill w/ the Colannade in G2.
2-0 (3-2)
I'm surprised I didn't face Jund at all - probably 10-13 people were running it out of 25 total (not quite half), and I played some decks I haven't played before - Grixis and Christmas Land. With more people I don't think I would have had a Top 8 finish, but w/ only 25 I probably got it tiebreakers because the games I won were 2-0 wipeouts - although I could have very easily gone 4-1 if the Grixis player hadn't had a God-draw w/ Ruinblasters. I had a ton of fun w/ this though, and I highly recommend anybody to run this if they are thinking of taking something to a tourney that nobody would expect. I didn't see any GY hate all day. The Jund decks I managed to watch weren't running Jund Charms, either.
how do u usually sb against certain decks and is 19 land really enough
He has 24 mana sources.. counting the Chalices and Borderposts, so I assume that would be sufficient.
Its funny you ask this. I use to only run 14! But yeah 19+Borderposts and Chalices it runs fine. Easily hit turn 5 Sphinx turn 6 OtV, with a lot of the time both of them a turn earlier. I'm on my phone right now but when I get home I'll list my sideboarding.
@Akkountent
I was with ya quite a bit on the ☺☺☺☺ty no DoJ this week, not sure what happened there. Don't think I wanna go to 4, but was somewhat upset.
I do agree this deck is extremly fun to play. I use to play Grixis Control, and that just isn't anywhere near the fun this is.
One of your matchups further pushes the idea of running all/most basic lands. I've never really had a problem with getting a color, other than maybe black, that I don't think we have a need with all the nons. With MB Vamps, U/W Control, WW all running Tectonic Edge, and Jund, RDW, Barely Boros, and some Grixis Counter/Burn all running Riunblaster, I believe it's just safer to play basics.
Ok well my fingers hurt like hell from touching this little screen, so I'll bid farewell til I get home.
Currently Playing
Standard
UBU/B ControlBU
EDH
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
Given this, I'm wondering what the thought behind running the borderposts is? I get that it would technically dodge Ruinblaster / Tectonic Edge, but is it worth it to open up for say, O Ring or Maelstrom Pulse?
The advantage gained seems marginal because you only run one of each, so does it make the deck less consistent?
U/B kontroll
U/W Kontroll
:symb::symu::symg: In A :symr::symu::symg:
EXTENDED
Jund's second rampage! :symb::symr::symg:
LEGACY
Reanimator
My name on Lackeyccg is MtgCzarno
TRADE WITH ME!! http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=304531
Props to KrakkShot http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=198744
You know I've thought about what you just said, and even after thinking back to last night, I honestly don't believe I saw a Borderpost more than twice all night. I believe I will make a switch with them. Maybe something like -2 Borderposts +1 Swamp +1Chalice.
Reason that we don't run Jwar Jwar, is mainly because we have another 6CC drop that we want to hit, every Turn 5-6. Jwar while is a great creature in the current standard, really doesn't do anything for our deck. I'd personally rather land a OtV, or Sharuum or wait a turn or 2 and get a Filigree, or Steel Wind. Plus Jwar Jwar doesn't come back via OtV, nor Sharuum.
I'll like the Tier 1 decks, and a couple 1.5s for sake of space.
Jund: -2 O-Ring -1 Fieldmist Borderpost -1 Capsule -1 Sharuum -1 Inkwell
+3 Flash Freeze +3 Celestial Purge
Vamps: -3 Ex Cap
+3 Celestial Purge
RDW: -1 Sharuum -1 Inkwell -2 O-Ring -2 Journey -2 Architects of Will -2 OtV
+2 Flash Freeze +2 Rest for the Weary +3 Celestial Purge +3 Outlander
Boros Bushwaker: -1 Inkwell -1 Sharuum -3 Journey -1 Steel Wind
+3 Celestial Purge +3 Outlander +3 Flash Freeze
U/W Control: -3 Journey -3 DoJ
+2 Rest for the Weary +1 Sanguine Bond +3 Negate
Boss Naya: -1 Sharumm -1 OtV -1 Glassdust
+3 Flash Freeze
WW: If i do side anything in, it will be -1 Inkwell -1 Sharuum -1 Architect
+2 Rest for the Weary +1 Sanguine Bond
Jacerator: -3 Ex Cap -3 Journey
+3 Negate +2 Rest for the Weary +1 Sanguine Bond
Grixis and Runeflare: -3 Journey -3 Ex Cap
+3 Flash Freeze +3 Negate
Elfdrazi: -1 Inkwell -1 Sharuum -Architect
+3 Flash Freeze
That's pretty much all the decks I can think of off the top of my head right now.
Currently Playing
Standard
UBU/B ControlBU
EDH
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
Outlander is an artifact, but I can't help but think I'd rather have Firewalker if I did play a pro red dude..
I've thought about dropping one Outlander from the board, not sure what I'd replace it with though.
Honestly, they aren't needed verse Jund. I believe without a doubt in my mind they are our easy match-up.
The Firewalker would be better over the Outlander of course, but more often than not the WW would be harder to get than WU. Atleast for me.
The reason they are in there for those 2 match ups is because one of those match ups is our second worse. Now don't get me wrong, with the addition of the Rest for the Wearys I don't know if we need to stack all the red hate like previously. It would take more playtesting verse RDW to get a confident answer. Unfortunately none of my local buddies plays RDW, so I normally only see it in tourneys. I don't call MTGO, reasonable playtesting...too many wannabes running PT decks.
If someone would want to test the Firewalker, or if someone has easy access to RDW, then I would love if they could test them out and let us know how it works, or even if we need any Pro-Red verse them. I may just be scared, and semi-unfamiliar with the match up, and indeed it might be costing me some SB spots I can devote to something else.
Currently Playing
Standard
UBU/B ControlBU
EDH
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
If RDW/Boros are completely unwinnable matches, even with the outlander out of the side, there probably isn't that much point to using them. I think that something that should be investigated is putting Path to Exile in the board instead.
Instant speed removal is highly relevant versus these matchups, and esp for RDW, they can't do that much with the extra land. It'd also give us some more flexibility in other matchups, potentially. At the very least it'd have to be more flexible than a Pro-Red Bear.
Just my thoughts on it, I should try and get some testing done against RDW, my friend's got the cards to build it, so might as well.
RDW isn't completely unwinnable, but it is one of our harder MU. Some people are adamant about PoE over Journey, on here. So maybe Paths wouldn't be too bad for a sideboard minus the outlanders, or it may just be that we don't even need anything else due to the Rests, Freezes and Purges. And it might allow for something, though I have no clue what, to be put in to help push U/W in our favor.
That will be my next mission, lol, find what helps versus Chaplin.
EDIT: .......All you Guests reading this thread......
Sign up and lay down some Ideas or results you've had with this deck. More heads are always better.
Currently Playing
Standard
UBU/B ControlBU
EDH
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
Cheap counters - Dispel/Spell Pierce - possibly? I lost a game the other day because I had to go all in with an Open the Vaults that got shot down by negate. Dispel woulda had it.
Well, that might be something to look at. I'd definitly go Dispel over Spell Pierce because any competent control player always has additional mana open, and that's mainly the only decks we'd side in counters for. It does limit what you can hit, but I guess with 3 Negates and 3 Dispels, you would have a reasonable chance to stop whatever it was you wanted...DoJ, Jace, or counters.
I still need some supporting evidence that we don't need as much red hate in the SB for RDW, but I'll playtest some Dispels in their place against Chaplin Control this week.
Currently Playing
Standard
UBU/B ControlBU
EDH
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
2x Halimar Depths
8x Island
4x Kabira Crossroads
4x Plains
4x Architects of Will
2x Filigree Angel
2x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
4x Glassdust Hulk
4x Sphinx of Lost Truths
3x Day of Judgment
2x Fieldmist Borderpost
3x Journey to Nowhere
3x Oblivion Ring
4x Open the Vaults
4x Spreading Seas
1x Day of Judgment
1x Journey to Nowhere
1x Oblivion Ring
4x Celestial Purge
3x Flashfreeze
3x Vedalken Outlander
2x Luminarch Ascension
My only loss was against jund when I wasn't able to hardcast the sphinx of the steel wind and it was just sitting there in my hand. Overall, I loved it's performance, best configuration I had. I'll be adding a 3x marsh flats and a swamp, so I can hard cast steel wind and also the architects.
I'm still a bit iffy with the SB because, the only cards that i was able to sideboarded in were flashfreeze+outlander(against jund) and additional DOJ.
And also, I find journey to nowhere better than path to exile. 1. I can keep my opponent off tempo, making my spreading seas optimal, 2. I can use it as fodder for discarding.
Only if they have one. I've seen maybe 1 in all the UW matchups I've played.
Really? I play both UW Chapin and Open The Vaults. And I get my O-Rings on a regular basis. I got 3 in my deck.
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron
WDeath and Taxes
WSoul Sisters
RWG Pod Combo
URSplinter Twin
URStorm
RBurn
I'm not saying people don't play them. Might be a difference in decklists. And it's also not uncommon to not see one copy of a card you only have 3 of. In any case, while LA is removable, it's certainly not a bad strategy. I've lost games to those decks where the only nonland permanent they have is jace.
U/B kontroll
U/W Kontroll
:symb::symu::symg: In A :symr::symu::symg:
EXTENDED
Jund's second rampage! :symb::symr::symg:
LEGACY
Reanimator
My name on Lackeyccg is MtgCzarno
TRADE WITH ME!! http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=304531
Props to KrakkShot http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=198744