i personally wouldn't hit their jaces with sacrament, i would hit their day of judgments instead because you just kill jace with hexmage or just swinging anyway. day of judgment is hard to comeback from unless you have your bloodghast in the yard, which they would probably be one of the first creatures to bite it to an o-ring, path, or purge.
on another note, has anyone else tested their build without the ghasts?
i've been running mine for the last week without the ghasts and it seems to have helped overall. it does make it slightly worse against control, but so far, i haven't had very many problems against control anyway. but i like not having them in against creature decks and running more kill/creatures that can block.
i'm also running a singleton tectonic edge. it slowed down my friends rwu deck just enough to win, getting it back with grim discovery was unnecessary
bloodghast is just to back breaking against control to drop it...grixis has no way to handle it and it=win for you.
Assuming they reprint Goyf, they could make it uncommon if they really wanted to. It's not like it would break limited or anything. I'm just not sure they'd want to drive its price into the ground for all of time. Shocks could be uncommon, too. It's not like dual lands are going to warp limited.
bloodghast is just to back breaking against control to drop it...grixis has no way to handle it and it=win for you.
from testing, it hasn't shown that its been bad for me. i won five games straight against rwu, 3 post sb. and grixis isn't that bad of a matchup in the first place. control in general isn't that difficult if you play it well and don't overextend your board. i would agree with you completely, but after fighting through 3 day of judgment, 2 martial coup, and 2 jace and winning, i've got to say, they really haven't helped.
and against every that wasnt control, i had to side them out anyway.
EDIT: @ CorpT: jace is good against vamps to some degree. we've still got hexmage and grim discovery to her back. jace is a pain, but he's not that bad. g1 yeah, he can certainly beat us, but game 2 our useless removal becomes more discard or creatures to deal with their deck.
Assuming they reprint Goyf, they could make it uncommon if they really wanted to. It's not like it would break limited or anything. I'm just not sure they'd want to drive its price into the ground for all of time. Shocks could be uncommon, too. It's not like dual lands are going to warp limited.
I've been testing Bojuka Bog against that new Naya Boss deck, bloodquake, and crypt combo. it certainly helps against those stupid Knight of the Reliquary. I wish it was a swamp to tutor with a fetch, but i guess you can't have everything.
it hasn't slowed me down too much, but i'll be doing heavy testing until friday since i'm taking vamps to the 5k in Richmond. Anyone else going, btw?
Removal is enough for Naya lol, no need for GY hate. Don't worry about BloodQuake and Crypt Combo, you won't see them that much (suck decks).
It's their choise, they have the tools but htey don't use it.
don't forget, rdw has unearthers too, i might keep in a misers bog, just because i would have the stupid luck of playing crypt combo round 1 and bloodquake round 2.
I thought I'd share these results with you all: I tested probably 35 games so far with this deck against Chapin's UW deck, and Vampires won exactly on game. Yes, 1 out of 35.
ROFL. This is absolutely hilarious. We've got two control players, a Mod and a MTGS Writer coming in here trying to troll the Vamp thread.
First of all CorpT, you play Grixis Control which is just gets rolled by Vamps. Sorry you feel so bad that you felt obliged to come in here and troll. How did Grixis do at PTSD? Oh wait, they weren't even on the radar. Sorry brah.
Second, I'm sorry getting your little sister to play a Vamp deck against you Shinjutsei doesn't count as real results. Unless you start naming a pilot who isn't a half brain dead your "results" don't hold any water. In Magical Christmas Land where every tournament is Chapin Control vs. Vamps (piloted by a horrible player) for every single match-up, yes we'd start quaking in our boots. But in real life, there's something called a meta where there's more than one deck. And in that meta Jeffrey Chen got more points in standard swiss than you're elevated to God status Chapin deck.
What is wrong with my response? You are an intelligent person, do you need me to explain why Jace is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE VS VAMPIRES?
Iona is your biggest wincon vs vampires. I don't care if you like it or not, facts are facts.
I agree we have answers to jace, but remember a good player already knows our answers and has a plan on taking care of them. i would suggest to proxy or build this deck and test against it before you make all kinds of comments. our own UW build is very close to chapins with just a couple of differences main and side, but there again its a meta call as to the changes.
man lands and inoa are there 2 secondary win conditions but they also defend very well. as shin stated jace is there main win condidtion. go back and look at what jace does and see how he wins games. remember jace ulti is very bad for anyone. most people are on a 3 turn clock with nothing relavent in hand.
Vamp is a very good deck and will continue to be a teir 1 deck till its hated out same goes for jund. meta is changing we need to change with it or we will change ourselves out of competition.
we all have very simular md builds with just a card diff here and there. our only discusions should be about what we do against the decks that are out there and the new ones that are being tested against us. new ideas to add to the deck. edge works great for some not for others. MS. same works great or a dead draw if not cards in hand. this is why we have such a huge gaunlet of decks to go up against. we see what or problems for each color is.
both vamps builds are 40/60 against the UW control and our build does not include Iona.
MODS please set up a sub forum for this thread !!!!!!!!
OHWHATDA, don't bother. I told Shin why jace is not that good vs vampirs, yet he claims it destroys vampires! 1 win out of 35 games! oh noez
First, he didn't claim that Jace DESTROYS Vampire, he only said that Iona and the manlands where not the only kill of the deck. Jace IS good against us in THIS deck. Yes we have alot of answers to it but they also have alot of response to those, never forget that. I dont know any good player that would just drop a Jace withought any possible way to back it up, that would just be stupid. Jace doesn't win games by himself but he IS something to look out for. I've played some games against those kind of decks (not this one but some similar list) and yes Jace is pain in the ass when they can back it up with some counters and removal. No Jace by himself is not much of a threat, but he will never be played withought any backup by good players. Yes Iona is much more of a threat then Jace, but he should not be ignored. Also Shin as alot more knowledge then any people in this thread about metagame and was just trying to help us making our deck better and all you guys did was flaming at him and said that he was wrong. When you dont know what your talking about just shut up! Now that my rant is done do and say whatever you want I couldn't care less, I was just tired to see all you know nothing kids just dissing what Shin and CorpT said withought even thinking about it a little or just test it for real against good control players. Haaaa that felt good.
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ROFL, you are trying to educate me? just because English is not my first language doesn't mean i am uneducated you prick, when you go study to become a genetic researcher or a brain surgeon amd succeed in it you can come and diss me with how smart you are okay? this is freaking card game forum, not cambridge university.
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First, he didn't claim that Jace DESTROYS Vampire, he only said that Iona and the manlands where not the only kill of the deck. Jace IS good against us in THIS deck. Yes we have alot of answers to it but they also have alot of response to those, never forget that. I dont know any good player that would just drop a Jace withought any possible way to back it up, that would just be stupid. Jace doesn't win games by himself but he IS something to look out for. I've played some games against those kind of decks (not this one but some similar list) and yes Jace is pain in the ass when they can back it up with some counters and removal. No Jace by himself is not much of a threat, but he will never be played withought any backup by good players. Yes Iona is much more of a threat then Jace, but he should not be ignored. Also Shin as alot more knowledge then any people in this thread about metagame and was just trying to help us making our deck better and all you guys did was flaming at him and said that he was wrong. When you dont know what your talking about just shut up! Now that my rant is done do and say whatever you want I couldn't care less, I was just tired to see all you know nothing kids just dissing what Shin and CorpT said withought even thinking about it a little or just test it for real against good control players. Haaaa that felt good.
for those of us who do know what we're talking about, we know that if we play well, vamps wins the mu. i'd sooner see 'know nothing kids' pilot uw because they saw the deck tech which leads to misplays and just makes it easier for us. i've been playing vamps competitively since zendikar came out, and my playtest partner is a great control player i.e. he takes a janky looking b/w control deck to a legacy event and gets 2nd. i think most of us here know how to play vampires properly enough to know that jace isn't all that great against us, and that we win more than 1 out of 35 games against u/w.
for those of us who do know what we're talking about, we know that if we play well, vamps wins the mu. i'd sooner see 'know nothing kids' pilot uw because they saw the deck tech which leads to misplays and just makes it easier for us. i've been playing vamps competitively since zendikar came out, and my playtest partner is a great control player i.e. he takes a janky looking b/w control deck to a legacy event and gets 2nd. i think most of us here know how to play vampires properly enough to know that jace isn't all that great against us, and that we win more than 1 out of 35 games against u/w.
Yes a good Vamp player can win against U/W Control, but Jace is good even against us. Yes it's not the best card, but that doesn't mean it's completly useless like some wants to think. As for the 1 out of 35 games, Shin played with a list that seems pretty ordinary, but that was the whole point of his post. If we dont playtest and tweak our deck against those deck just because we think we can win those match-ups, we are going to get crushed in competitive events. If you only play in your FNM with bad players and bad decks then yeah just keep your deck as it is and dont change a thing, you would probably win with any version anyways. But for those who want to improve our game I suggest you listen to people like Shin and playtest alot before even making any assumptions. That was the point of my post.
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ROFL, you are trying to educate me? just because English is not my first language doesn't mean i am uneducated you prick, when you go study to become a genetic researcher or a brain surgeon amd succeed in it you can come and diss me with how smart you are okay? this is freaking card game forum, not cambridge university.
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I had no problem taking on UW control this past weekend. Jace is a problem but we answer him fairly easy in the form of Vampire Hexmage or just straight up beatdown.
The only match I lost against them was when someone dropped 3 back to back cancels on me and dropped an Iona. Other than that I was beating on UW all day. Iona causes problems but that is our main concern. Game 3 i had to sac a hexmage to his damned chalice just to stop a t6 Iona and then I drew my Sludge to seal the win.
I did, however, lose to Time Sieve which kinda annoyed me. That was the last deck i expected to see play at a 5K. If i would have knownabout the possibility of time sieve, Pithing needle and/or underworld dreams and/or sadistic sacrament would have been in the board.
I'm seriously considering 3 or 4 Sadistic Sacrament in the SB for Boss Naya, UW, Pimped-Out WW, and OtV.(removing equipment, Iona/Jace, equipment, and Open the Vaults, respectively.)
P.S. I agree, we need a subforum. Keeping up with this thread is tiresome.
hahahaha, how ridicoules! Jace is a problem if we have NO ANSWER for it? Baneslayer is a problem if we have NO ANSWER for it aswell.
I can't believe how much hype Jace is getting. We have HEXMAGES, Grim Discovery to bring her back. With my build (12 2 drops, gl bouncing them bro) I HAVEN'T HAD ANY HARD TIME VS JACE AT ALL.
Jace can be the main win con of the deck, but it is not the main win con vs vampires. Iona is a bigger win con vs vampires. After SB, Duress and Mind Sludge join the party.
Jace won't ever become a problem, if he does which is highly unlikely (hexmage, duress, sludge) people will add PITHING NEEDLE to their SB and make sure Jace is obliterated.
I can't believe that Dark_Angel666 one of the better players around here didn't see this. I am getting sick of Jace2 hype everywhere i go.
And again your getting this all wrong. I didn't say that Jace is "the bomb" against us, I said that it's not a terrible card as you and others seems to think. Underestimating Jace is bad idea even if we do have alot of cards against it. Jace alone is nothing, but he is not alone remember that. Jace will most of the time have back-up and he will fuel the player with more back-up. Yes the match-up is winnable and probably easly most of the time with a good list, but my point was not about this. Jace IS good, yes maybe it's overhyped, but still it is a good card and should not be ignored. Shin's point was only to tell us to be ready for this deck, which you most likely are and am as well.
This is why I dont talk strategy with you guys anymore....It just end up like 4 or 5 pages of screaming and flaming over nothing.
ROFL, you are trying to educate me? just because English is not my first language doesn't mean i am uneducated you prick, when you go study to become a genetic researcher or a brain surgeon amd succeed in it you can come and diss me with how smart you are okay? this is freaking card game forum, not cambridge university.
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I'm seriously considering 3 or 4 Sadistic Sacrament in the SB for Boss Naya, UW, Pimped-Out WW, and OtV.(removing equipment, Iona/Jace, equipment, and Open the Vaults, respectively.)
P.S. I agree, we need a subforum. Keeping up with this thread is tiresome.
Yes I am strongly considering throwing my 3 Sadistic Sacraments back in the board. A sub-forum would help and be much appreciated lol.
This is why I dont talk strategy with you guys anymore....It just end up like 4 or 5 pages of screaming and flaming over nothing.
Exactly - it's honestly rather pointless, isn't it?
It's not that I truly believe that the win ratio for UW is actually 35:1. but rather that without further testing the numbers are obviously going to pan out in UW's favor.
And for the record, I don't write for this website - I write for SCG, and as such my testing has to be conclusive and it has to be against good players. That's quite imperative, and I strive to find good playtesting partners. So to the guy who said that I was playtesting with a little girl or w/e because he can't come to grips with the fact that his "pet deck" loses to a good match-up here and there: try again.
I was trying to help. Epic fail on my part for trying I guess.
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I played against UW control and I had no prob game 1. But game 2 was a different story. Still won 2 - 0 but it put up one heck of a fight. Underworld Dreams helps severely.
Exactly - it's honestly rather pointless, isn't it?
I was trying to help. Epic fail on my part for trying I guess.
As long as the people on this board are as rigid and stuck up about this deck as they are, there's really not much to do to help them. Vampires has been taken pretty far in terms of what cards do or do not work with it. It's kind of hard to build up once you hit the ceiling.
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My advice: squirm. Your best match-up (control) now smashes you into oblivion.
I bring these tidings as a means to not make the next thirty pages of this thread utterly useless to anyone who actually wants to win an FNM/5K/any Standard event ever.
So, and I hate to sound dismissive here but, the 6th best performing deck at ptsd is going to basically end Vampires, the 2nd best performing deck at ptsd.
Honestly, I can't see myself losing 35-1 against any deck.....at all.....ever. Opponent mana screw will win you more than that.
If need be, vamps will adjust to this change in the meta the same as any other. Already maindecked we have Hexmages and Grim Discovery to bring them back. We've got duress. Already sideboard I've got Underworld Dreams. Sadistic Sacrament also seems like a great option here. If necessary we'll add pithing needle. If creature counterspells become a problem we'll add Summoning Trap.
There is no shortage of answers.
Why do vamps draw so much hate? It's like some kind of MTG tourrettes with people stopping by the thread to declare the end of the deck. I remember, though, it was the same when the archetype was just developing and people were saying vamps would never even be tier 2.
Is it because of the Twilight movies? I hate them too. Maybe it's tribal blowback from Fae? Is it some ancient fear of vampires in our collective unconscious manifesting itself in a card game? I just don't get it.
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I was trying to help. Epic fail on my part for trying I guess.
If it really was you're intent to "help", I, and the other vamp players thank you for your time and effort, but it really didn't sound like you were trying to help, it sounded like you were simply foretelling our downfall, and then declaring martyrdom when met with the expected resistance, which as I previously stated, we are accustomed to around here.
Shin what do you want to accomplish? you want us to throw flowers in the air and thank you? I don't know for what kind of crowd you're used to write, but i am not one of them.
The cards we have for UW Jace2 deck are obvious, how to use them is also obvious. If you want start a discussion to improve this deck, do so for our Jund MU. Jace2 is not a big problem for Vampires and yes i have played against that deck.
Every card is problem if you can't answer them, vampires can and will answer Jace2.
Jesus Christ man, I don't think you actually read anything that I write.
Look, I don't give a damn if you like me or not, I'm OBVIOUSLY not coming to this thread to interact with you at all. I'm here to discuss with those who actually want to listen (i.e. not you).
Jace is good, and that's why you hear about it so much. Jace is fine against your deck, because after they wipe the board, your one creature is just going to get bounced every turn for free while I use my hand and my mana to control anything else you try to do on your turn. Eventually we Mind Spring, draw Iona, and you lose. It's actually very simple.
Like I said, I don't think the win ratio is truly 35:1 or something absurd, but I do believe it's at least 60:40 in favor of UW. That being said, you all can either blindly believe that "we beat control decks because we're Vampires" or you can actually think open-mindedly and realize that you need to CHANGE your deck to beat the control decks that have CHANGED in order to beat YOU.
Ugh.
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4 Deathmark: Just the best removal against Junk, WW, sometimes Jund, and any deck with Baneslayer Angel and Knight of Reliquary.
3 Pithing Needle: Have you tried this even with Hexmages (I run 3 MD)? Against Jund is just awesome. Garruks (sometimes these guys are dropped when using SB), Siege-Gang Commander, Master of the Wild Hunt, Raging Ravine, Lavaclaw Reaches. But you got to be careful with those Pulses. I know that many think that against Jund, you can only win if you use Mind Sludge (I run 2 MD), but I disagree. I've always win if I play Vampire Nocturnus, keeping copies in hand, in case of Pulse. For this task, Grim Discovery is just AMAZING. Other particular reason, is that Jund players are so afraid of Mind Sludge that at times try to take it out with Thought Hemorrhage. You can even try to sideboard the 2 GD and dropping 2 Mind Sludge, and try to make pression with Duress/Mire's Toll.
2 Grim Discovery: I've explained this already, but it's also good against RDW, recovering Kalastria or Hexmage, and with almost every deck which runs a lot of removal cards.
2 Nemesis Trap: this card is good not only against WW and Baneslayer Angel. It also works great when you need to remove those Great Sable Stag while blocking with the created token. Even when are no White Creatures attacking. Speaking of Great Sable Stag, you must sideboard the Grim Dicovery for recovering Gatekeeper of Malakir until the opponent has no other creatures than the Stag.
2 Duress+ 2 Mire's Toll: you have to think as if you were running 4 Duress. In a Mono Black Vampire Deck (without using Tectonic Edge, a card that I like in almost any deck, but not in Vampires, it just doesn't work well with Tendrils, Gatekeeper, Mire's Toll. In the other hand is a good friend of Grim Discovery for removing MANLANDS, but Pithing Needle works great too) Mire's Toll is very useful. Just give it a try.
I will appreciate some feedback. Again, best regards from Chile and keep playing Vampires. It will become Tier 1!
Shin what do you want to accomplish? you want us to throw flowers in the air and thank you? I don't know for what kind of crowd you're used to write, but i am not one of them.
The cards we have for UW Jace2 deck are obvious, how to use them is also obvious. If you want start a discussion to improve this deck, do so for our Jund MU. Jace2 is not a big problem for Vampires and yes i have played against that deck.
Every card is problem if you can't answer them, vampires can and will answer Jace2.
Is trying to accomplish Exactly what I said. Help us getting ready for this deck. This as nothing to do with Jace2. He has tested against Chapin's build and went 1-34 on 35 games of is first test results and wanted to share that with us so we could try it out ourself to see if we where ready for it. Yes we played alot against W/B control, but not this exact build and it will probably see alot of play. If you make the test and do well, it's good that means your ready. That was all he was trying to do. Guess I'll give up as well, I already wasted enought time here.
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bloodghast is just to back breaking against control to drop it...grixis has no way to handle it and it=win for you.
You should play against Jace before saying this. Jace crushes Vampires.
from testing, it hasn't shown that its been bad for me. i won five games straight against rwu, 3 post sb. and grixis isn't that bad of a matchup in the first place. control in general isn't that difficult if you play it well and don't overextend your board. i would agree with you completely, but after fighting through 3 day of judgment, 2 martial coup, and 2 jace and winning, i've got to say, they really haven't helped.
and against every that wasnt control, i had to side them out anyway.
EDIT: @ CorpT: jace is good against vamps to some degree. we've still got hexmage and grim discovery to her back. jace is a pain, but he's not that bad. g1 yeah, he can certainly beat us, but game 2 our useless removal becomes more discard or creatures to deal with their deck.
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it hasn't slowed me down too much, but i'll be doing heavy testing until friday since i'm taking vamps to the 5k in Richmond. Anyone else going, btw?
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don't forget, rdw has unearthers too, i might keep in a misers bog, just because i would have the stupid luck of playing crypt combo round 1 and bloodquake round 2.
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ROFL. This is absolutely hilarious. We've got two control players, a Mod and a MTGS Writer coming in here trying to troll the Vamp thread.
First of all CorpT, you play Grixis Control which is just gets rolled by Vamps. Sorry you feel so bad that you felt obliged to come in here and troll. How did Grixis do at PTSD? Oh wait, they weren't even on the radar. Sorry brah.
Second, I'm sorry getting your little sister to play a Vamp deck against you Shinjutsei doesn't count as real results. Unless you start naming a pilot who isn't a half brain dead your "results" don't hold any water. In Magical Christmas Land where every tournament is Chapin Control vs. Vamps (piloted by a horrible player) for every single match-up, yes we'd start quaking in our boots. But in real life, there's something called a meta where there's more than one deck. And in that meta Jeffrey Chen got more points in standard swiss than you're elevated to God status Chapin deck.
Sorry, try again.
I agree we have answers to jace, but remember a good player already knows our answers and has a plan on taking care of them. i would suggest to proxy or build this deck and test against it before you make all kinds of comments. our own UW build is very close to chapins with just a couple of differences main and side, but there again its a meta call as to the changes.
man lands and inoa are there 2 secondary win conditions but they also defend very well. as shin stated jace is there main win condidtion. go back and look at what jace does and see how he wins games. remember jace ulti is very bad for anyone. most people are on a 3 turn clock with nothing relavent in hand.
Vamp is a very good deck and will continue to be a teir 1 deck till its hated out same goes for jund. meta is changing we need to change with it or we will change ourselves out of competition.
we all have very simular md builds with just a card diff here and there. our only discusions should be about what we do against the decks that are out there and the new ones that are being tested against us. new ideas to add to the deck. edge works great for some not for others. MS. same works great or a dead draw if not cards in hand. this is why we have such a huge gaunlet of decks to go up against. we see what or problems for each color is.
both vamps builds are 40/60 against the UW control and our build does not include Iona.
MODS please set up a sub forum for this thread !!!!!!!!
First, he didn't claim that Jace DESTROYS Vampire, he only said that Iona and the manlands where not the only kill of the deck. Jace IS good against us in THIS deck. Yes we have alot of answers to it but they also have alot of response to those, never forget that. I dont know any good player that would just drop a Jace withought any possible way to back it up, that would just be stupid. Jace doesn't win games by himself but he IS something to look out for. I've played some games against those kind of decks (not this one but some similar list) and yes Jace is pain in the ass when they can back it up with some counters and removal. No Jace by himself is not much of a threat, but he will never be played withought any backup by good players. Yes Iona is much more of a threat then Jace, but he should not be ignored. Also Shin as alot more knowledge then any people in this thread about metagame and was just trying to help us making our deck better and all you guys did was flaming at him and said that he was wrong. When you dont know what your talking about just shut up! Now that my rant is done do and say whatever you want I couldn't care less, I was just tired to see all you know nothing kids just dissing what Shin and CorpT said withought even thinking about it a little or just test it for real against good control players. Haaaa that felt good.
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And what's the average number of points per Vampire player VS the average per Chapin U/W player?
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for those of us who do know what we're talking about, we know that if we play well, vamps wins the mu. i'd sooner see 'know nothing kids' pilot uw because they saw the deck tech which leads to misplays and just makes it easier for us. i've been playing vamps competitively since zendikar came out, and my playtest partner is a great control player i.e. he takes a janky looking b/w control deck to a legacy event and gets 2nd. i think most of us here know how to play vampires properly enough to know that jace isn't all that great against us, and that we win more than 1 out of 35 games against u/w.
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Aside: What is the average number of pro-points for the U/W deck, as compared to Vamps.
Yes a good Vamp player can win against U/W Control, but Jace is good even against us. Yes it's not the best card, but that doesn't mean it's completly useless like some wants to think. As for the 1 out of 35 games, Shin played with a list that seems pretty ordinary, but that was the whole point of his post. If we dont playtest and tweak our deck against those deck just because we think we can win those match-ups, we are going to get crushed in competitive events. If you only play in your FNM with bad players and bad decks then yeah just keep your deck as it is and dont change a thing, you would probably win with any version anyways. But for those who want to improve our game I suggest you listen to people like Shin and playtest alot before even making any assumptions. That was the point of my post.
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In minutes disappears
The only match I lost against them was when someone dropped 3 back to back cancels on me and dropped an Iona. Other than that I was beating on UW all day. Iona causes problems but that is our main concern. Game 3 i had to sac a hexmage to his damned chalice just to stop a t6 Iona and then I drew my Sludge to seal the win.
I did, however, lose to Time Sieve which kinda annoyed me. That was the last deck i expected to see play at a 5K. If i would have knownabout the possibility of time sieve, Pithing needle and/or underworld dreams and/or sadistic sacrament would have been in the board.
Legacy/Vintage: Sneak Attack!, Reanimator, SuiBlack, Painter's Grindstone
Standard:Mono-Black midrange, BW Vamp-Blade
Extended: Mono-Black Vampires, Faeries
EDH: Jhoira, Glissa (In progress), Kaervec the Merciless.
Liliana Vess Collection count: 91 and 8 Liliana of the Veil
P.S. I agree, we need a subforum. Keeping up with this thread is tiresome.
And again your getting this all wrong. I didn't say that Jace is "the bomb" against us, I said that it's not a terrible card as you and others seems to think. Underestimating Jace is bad idea even if we do have alot of cards against it. Jace alone is nothing, but he is not alone remember that. Jace will most of the time have back-up and he will fuel the player with more back-up. Yes the match-up is winnable and probably easly most of the time with a good list, but my point was not about this. Jace IS good, yes maybe it's overhyped, but still it is a good card and should not be ignored. Shin's point was only to tell us to be ready for this deck, which you most likely are and am as well.
This is why I dont talk strategy with you guys anymore....It just end up like 4 or 5 pages of screaming and flaming over nothing.
MTGS....Full of fail all day, everyday. Welcome to Hell!
Yes I am strongly considering throwing my 3 Sadistic Sacraments back in the board. A sub-forum would help and be much appreciated lol.
Legacy/Vintage: Sneak Attack!, Reanimator, SuiBlack, Painter's Grindstone
Standard:Mono-Black midrange, BW Vamp-Blade
Extended: Mono-Black Vampires, Faeries
EDH: Jhoira, Glissa (In progress), Kaervec the Merciless.
Liliana Vess Collection count: 91 and 8 Liliana of the Veil
Exactly - it's honestly rather pointless, isn't it?
It's not that I truly believe that the win ratio for UW is actually 35:1. but rather that without further testing the numbers are obviously going to pan out in UW's favor.
And for the record, I don't write for this website - I write for SCG, and as such my testing has to be conclusive and it has to be against good players. That's quite imperative, and I strive to find good playtesting partners. So to the guy who said that I was playtesting with a little girl or w/e because he can't come to grips with the fact that his "pet deck" loses to a good match-up here and there: try again.
I was trying to help. Epic fail on my part for trying I guess.
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View my MTGS-era TFK articles here!
As long as the people on this board are as rigid and stuck up about this deck as they are, there's really not much to do to help them. Vampires has been taken pretty far in terms of what cards do or do not work with it. It's kind of hard to build up once you hit the ceiling.
Standard
RWBDark Vengeant ControlBWR
Legacy
UBFaeries in My SoupBU
EDH
UBOona's Dance PartyBU
So, and I hate to sound dismissive here but, the 6th best performing deck at ptsd is going to basically end Vampires, the 2nd best performing deck at ptsd.
Honestly, I can't see myself losing 35-1 against any deck.....at all.....ever. Opponent mana screw will win you more than that.
If need be, vamps will adjust to this change in the meta the same as any other. Already maindecked we have Hexmages and Grim Discovery to bring them back. We've got duress. Already sideboard I've got Underworld Dreams. Sadistic Sacrament also seems like a great option here. If necessary we'll add pithing needle. If creature counterspells become a problem we'll add Summoning Trap.
There is no shortage of answers.
Why do vamps draw so much hate? It's like some kind of MTG tourrettes with people stopping by the thread to declare the end of the deck. I remember, though, it was the same when the archetype was just developing and people were saying vamps would never even be tier 2.
Is it because of the Twilight movies? I hate them too. Maybe it's tribal blowback from Fae? Is it some ancient fear of vampires in our collective unconscious manifesting itself in a card game? I just don't get it.
If it really was you're intent to "help", I, and the other vamp players thank you for your time and effort, but it really didn't sound like you were trying to help, it sounded like you were simply foretelling our downfall, and then declaring martyrdom when met with the expected resistance, which as I previously stated, we are accustomed to around here.
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EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
Jesus Christ man, I don't think you actually read anything that I write.
Look, I don't give a damn if you like me or not, I'm OBVIOUSLY not coming to this thread to interact with you at all. I'm here to discuss with those who actually want to listen (i.e. not you).
Jace is good, and that's why you hear about it so much. Jace is fine against your deck, because after they wipe the board, your one creature is just going to get bounced every turn for free while I use my hand and my mana to control anything else you try to do on your turn. Eventually we Mind Spring, draw Iona, and you lose. It's actually very simple.
Like I said, I don't think the win ratio is truly 35:1 or something absurd, but I do believe it's at least 60:40 in favor of UW. That being said, you all can either blindly believe that "we beat control decks because we're Vampires" or you can actually think open-mindedly and realize that you need to CHANGE your deck to beat the control decks that have CHANGED in order to beat YOU.
Ugh.
Read my Constructed column on Star City, Thirst for Knowledge!
View my MTGS-era TFK articles here!
I've reading this topic for a while, foundig it very interesting.
I'm currently running same deck as Jeff Chen.
But, with my Meta my sideboard is a little bit different:
4 Deathmark
3 Pithing Needle
2 Nemesis Trap
2 Grim Discovery
2 Duress
2 Mire's Toll
REASONS
4 Deathmark: Just the best removal against Junk, WW, sometimes Jund, and any deck with Baneslayer Angel and Knight of Reliquary.
3 Pithing Needle: Have you tried this even with Hexmages (I run 3 MD)? Against Jund is just awesome. Garruks (sometimes these guys are dropped when using SB), Siege-Gang Commander, Master of the Wild Hunt, Raging Ravine, Lavaclaw Reaches. But you got to be careful with those Pulses. I know that many think that against Jund, you can only win if you use Mind Sludge (I run 2 MD), but I disagree. I've always win if I play Vampire Nocturnus, keeping copies in hand, in case of Pulse. For this task, Grim Discovery is just AMAZING. Other particular reason, is that Jund players are so afraid of Mind Sludge that at times try to take it out with Thought Hemorrhage. You can even try to sideboard the 2 GD and dropping 2 Mind Sludge, and try to make pression with Duress/Mire's Toll.
2 Grim Discovery: I've explained this already, but it's also good against RDW, recovering Kalastria or Hexmage, and with almost every deck which runs a lot of removal cards.
2 Nemesis Trap: this card is good not only against WW and Baneslayer Angel. It also works great when you need to remove those Great Sable Stag while blocking with the created token. Even when are no White Creatures attacking. Speaking of Great Sable Stag, you must sideboard the Grim Dicovery for recovering Gatekeeper of Malakir until the opponent has no other creatures than the Stag.
2 Duress+ 2 Mire's Toll: you have to think as if you were running 4 Duress. In a Mono Black Vampire Deck (without using Tectonic Edge, a card that I like in almost any deck, but not in Vampires, it just doesn't work well with Tendrils, Gatekeeper, Mire's Toll. In the other hand is a good friend of Grim Discovery for removing MANLANDS, but Pithing Needle works great too) Mire's Toll is very useful. Just give it a try.
I will appreciate some feedback. Again, best regards from Chile and keep playing Vampires. It will become Tier 1!
Is trying to accomplish Exactly what I said. Help us getting ready for this deck. This as nothing to do with Jace2. He has tested against Chapin's build and went 1-34 on 35 games of is first test results and wanted to share that with us so we could try it out ourself to see if we where ready for it. Yes we played alot against W/B control, but not this exact build and it will probably see alot of play. If you make the test and do well, it's good that means your ready. That was all he was trying to do. Guess I'll give up as well, I already wasted enought time here.
MTGS....Full of fail all day, everyday. Welcome to Hell!