Why not? A lot of people can't afford to buy multiple expensive decks, so they would sell the baneslayer for other things they need. like when t2 cards rotate, their price goes down. why does the price go down? because they dont need the cards anymore
obviously it wont go down as much as it would go up, but it should still go down some
Because price doesn't go down when people sell their cards. Price goes down when demand goes down. Cards rotating out of Standard - less demand. Card not in the top 8 at one tournament - not less demand. Additionally, prices are always sticky on the downside.
Because price doesn't go down when people sell their cards. Price goes down when demand goes down. Cards rotating out of Standard - less demand. Card not in the top 8 at one tournament - not less demand. Additionally, prices are always sticky on the downside.
That Grixis Control looks kind of cool, and it's nice to see a control deck do something. Although Divination!? Really? I guess Courier's Capsule isn't enough, and Jace flounders with all the aggro.
I agree. This saddens me deeply because Standard is basically all I play and it is my favorite format. It is absolutely terrible right now though so it really turns me off to magic. The only other magic I've been playing are local 8 man legacy tournaments each weekend.
mabe you should stop looking up decklists on the internet and be more creative. just like everyone one this site. like the dude who asked for a grixis control list. how about you make your own list and develop deck building skills more. no affense or anything but people have become addicted to net decking, and have stopped developing that... "deck building creative skill". So stop getting on the internet and go make a home browed decklist.
mabe you should stop looking up decklists on the internet and be more creative. just like everyone one this site. like the dude who asked for a grixis control list. how about you make your own list and develop deck building skills more. no affense or anything but people have become addicted to net decking, and have stopped developing that... "deck building creative skill". So stop getting on the internet and go make a home browed decklist.
I really don't know what it is about posts like this that push my hate button but they always do.
1) There are way more skilled pilots than there are first-class deckbuilders. Being a wizard at discovering obscure tech or breaking garbage cards through arcane combos should not be a prerequisite for playing the game. People netdeck because the decks are good (usually), and running a good deck dramatically increases your chance of placing in a competitive environment.
2) No matter how diverse metagame, there are only so many general archetypes in Magic, and within those archetypes there is always a best deck (even if it changes from week to week).
If you restrict your deck decisions to the point where people can't play "Jund Midrange" or "Naya Aggro" or "WUR Control" because those decks aren't "original", you won't have any decks to choose from. Any deck that can't be classified by "[color(s)] [deck archetype]" is by definition a random pile that doesn't have a gameplan.
Assuming your deck is an archetype and not a random pile, then the next question is "what are the best cards in this archetype?" This is the whole point of decklists. Decks that perform well in major tournaments are vastly more likely to contain correct card choices, and thus more likely to be imitated. Good ideas, by their nature, spread. Only a handful of people can come independently to the realization that Ruinblaster or MD Flashfreeze or Spreading Seas are excellent choices to combat the current metagame before it becomes general knowledge and anyone else running those cards automatically becomes a "netdecker".
In conclusion, you're wrong, netdecking is fine, get over yourself.
As for the tournament; Only one Jund? What happend to the Jund decks? Didn't they hit their favourite cascades often enough? *snicker*
Red Deck Wins and Mono Red have always been a powerhouse in any format, and so it continues to be, because it's so stable and fast. I hope we will get to see some new decks when worldwake comes out though, as the meta now basically is nothing new. Except spread em, which btw is very funny xD. (Did i mention i didn't like Jund much? :P)
I didn't get a count, but by my observations, RDW might have actually had more players than Jund. It just felt like all day, the top table was missing lots of Jund and instead had RDW/Boros/Spread Um/Control at the top. Eldrazi Green was small but noticable, and lots of Bant decks running around.
Jacerator seemed to to have every player draw round 1, as i drew round 1 against it, and all around me was mirror matches of Jace and Spread Um. Spread Um seemed to be the more popular deck between the previous 2 best Blue Decks, and i saw lots of Jund go 0-2 drop, along with a surprising amount of Spread Um at the top later in the day.
This format is as healthy as ever. And its doing so with what might be the most narrow card pool in the history of standard. Jund just didn't lose anything in the rotation, so all the ZEN cards took their time and now have decklists maturing into t1. You may not find the format healthy, but you also may not be looking.
I didn't get a count, but by my observations, RDW might have actually had more players than Jund. It just felt like all day, the top table was missing lots of Jund and instead had RDW/Boros/Spread Um/Control at the top. Eldrazi Green was small but noticable, and lots of Bant decks running around.
Jacerator seemed to to have every player draw round 1, as i drew round 1 against it, and all around me was mirror matches of Jace and Spread Um. Spread Um seemed to be the more popular deck between the previous 2 best Blue Decks, and i saw lots of Jund go 0-2 drop, along with a surprising amount of Spread Um at the top later in the day.
This format is as healthy as ever. And its doing so with what might be the most narrow card pool in the history of standard. Jund just didn't lose anything in the rotation, so all the ZEN cards took their time and now have decklists maturing into t1. You may not find the format healthy, but you also may not be looking.
people like you would like a format no matter what. even if there were only 20 different cards in the format. you would find some retarded reason to say the format is developing or involves skillz
people like you would like a format no matter what. even if there were only 20 different cards in the format. you would find some retarded reason to say the format is developing or involves skillz
and people like you are close minded to playing other decks but draw-go, or control.
If you wanted to win last year, you had to play 5CC or Fairies. They were control. Guess what, aggro players didn't complain like this.
stop whining and stop going after aggro players.
and people like you are close minded to playing other decks but draw-go, or control.
If you wanted to win last year, you had to play 5CC or Fairies. They were control. Guess what, aggro players didn't complain like this.
stop whining and stop going after aggro players.
[/anger]
you cant argue that jund is kind of out of hand. you never had to play 5cc or fairies last season. for some reason everyone seems to have forgotten all the other decks that existed. even when fairies was the big dog, there were still other decks, and even faeries wasn't as dominant as jund is in a lot of areas (mtgo). eh, anyways jund probably didn't do to well because spread em decks probably hated it out. it just has to good of a jund mu, and there wasn't to much jund at most states to begin with.
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power nine,reserved list,snow lands,rules changes,planeswalkers,auras,legends,mythics,rares, counterspell,tarmogoyf,cascade,affinity,equipment, noobs,powergamers, mods, net-deckers,fnm,the dci,wotc,negate,psychatog,dredge,bloodbraid elf,people flicking their cards,fairies,cryptic command,dark ritual,eldrazi,path to exile,new formats,new products,yu-gi-oh,baneslayer angel,lotus cobra,core sets,and Mark Rosewater,especially Mark Rosewater.
you cant argue that jund is kind of out of hand. you never had to play 5cc or fairies last season. for some reason everyone seems to have forgotten all the other decks that existed. even when fairies was the big dog, there were still other decks, and even faeries wasn't as dominant as jund is in a lot of areas (mtgo). eh, anyways jund probably didn't do to well because spread em decks probably hated it out. it just has to good of a jund mu, and there wasn't to much jund at most states to begin with.
No, I agree that Jund is out of hand. But do the control players really need whine incessantly about how control isn't very good in this meta.
Aggro wasn't that good last standard. It wasn't this bad, but still. The meta shifted, and whining doesn't change it
No, I agree that Jund is out of hand. But do the control players really need whine incessantly about how control isn't very good in this meta.
Aggro wasn't that good last standard. It wasn't this bad, but still. The meta shifted, and whining doesn't change it
Actually, whining is EXACTLY what will change it. Accepting it leads to the developers thinking they did it right and continuing.
I really don't know what it is about posts like this that push my hate button but they always do.
1) There are way more skilled pilots than there are first-class deckbuilders. Being a wizard at discovering obscure tech or breaking garbage cards through arcane combos should not be a prerequisite for playing the game. People netdeck because the decks are good (usually), and running a good deck dramatically increases your chance of placing in a competitive environment.
2) No matter how diverse metagame, there are only so many general archetypes in Magic, and within those archetypes there is always a best deck (even if it changes from week to week).
If you restrict your deck decisions to the point where people can't play "Jund Midrange" or "Naya Aggro" or "WUR Control" because those decks aren't "original", you won't have any decks to choose from. Any deck that can't be classified by "[color(s)] [deck archetype]" is by definition a random pile that doesn't have a gameplan.
Assuming your deck is an archetype and not a random pile, then the next question is "what are the best cards in this archetype?" This is the whole point of decklists. Decks that perform well in major tournaments are vastly more likely to contain correct card choices, and thus more likely to be imitated. Good ideas, by their nature, spread. Only a handful of people can come independently to the realization that Ruinblaster or MD Flashfreeze or Spreading Seas are excellent choices to combat the current metagame before it becomes general knowledge and anyone else running those cards automatically becomes a "netdecker".
In conclusion, you're wrong, netdecking is fine, get over yourself.
[/hate]
LMAO!!!!!. you totaly missed the point. The point was that that netdecking wont build your skill at deckbuilding. All it shows is that you can read, Ive seen so many people netdeck and fail its amazing. They end up looking at a really good list from a pro tour, then put it together and FAIL, because they dont have the better knowlege of how to run it/ run it well. like for instanse at states 2 weeks ago 80% of the field was jund, i bet 70% just went on faith that "thats the decklist I want to run" and didnt even try to test other cards and to gain a preference(aka modify it), and didnt even know the ends and outs of the deck. im saying that If you arnt that good dont try and netdeck. try and develop you deckbuilding skills with free creative thought. like if you think to your self....hummmmm.."i want to make a grixis control deck, I dont want to do the work for my self and try to develop my own list...so im going to have someone do the dirty work for me" Trying to make your own lists and playing them before you go look on the internet will help you. like if you had and idea for that"grixis control" try and make your list and play with it....then if you feel like somthing is wrong, then go on the internet and look for "Advise" and make your own decision how you want to mod your deck. A great Jedi wants said "netdecking leads to weekness, weekness leads to being a bad player" So try and be more creative guys dont relay on other people to build your decks for you.
and on that note " Only a handful of people can come independently to the realization that Ruinblaster or MD Flashfreeze or Spreading Seas are excellent choices to combat the current metagame before it becomes general knowledge and anyone else running those cards automatically becomes a "netdecker".
most people only come onto that knowledge because they see that a pro did it. If that pro would have never used said cards then they wouldnt have used the tech. is some smoe would have never used spread'um NObody would be using that deck. Because they think just because its not used means its not good.....And im not on my self, Im just giving advise....douche
LMAO!!!!!. you totaly missed the point. The point was that that netdecking wont build your skill at deckbuilding. All it shows is that you can read, Ive seen so many people netdeck and fail its amazing. They end up looking at a really good list from a pro tour, then put it together and FAIL, because they dont have the better knowlege of how to run it/ run it well. like for instanse at states 2 weeks ago 80% of the field was jund, i bet 70% just went on faith that "thats the decklist I want to run" and didnt even try to test other cards and to gain a preference(aka modify it), and didnt even know the ends and outs of the deck.
Is it your contention that these same people would do better if they didn't netdeck and just threw a deck together at the last minute?
Because the people that grab a list, sleeve it and play it at a tournament are probably not the people who would spend months fine tuning a list from scratch.
*snip the same rant every anti-netdeck person posts while patting himself on the back*
Continue playing your original deck and hoping that TOs start giving out points for creativity. Someone has to go 1-3 at FNM every week.
Is it your contention that these same people would do better if they didn't netdeck and just threw a deck together at the last minute?
Because the people that grab a list, sleeve it and play it at a tournament are probably not the people who would spend months fine tuning a list from scratch.
Continue playing your original deck and hoping that TOs start giving out points for creativity. Someone has to go 1-3 at FNM every week.
i meant that. if your going to netdeck atleast try and obtain a view on every card in the deck. and test it to see if you like them or modify it to what you like. dont just go in faith of other peoples prefferances, Develop your own preferances. Because if you dont you may find that "hey i dont like this card" and i may come to wishing that you switched it with some other card. but you didnt because you never "full" tested it. like for instance. 1st round at "a major touney" " i played this guy(playing jund, me playing boros) and he didnt full test with the deck and play it(dude straight up let me path to exile his bbe after he cascaded into blightning, and i only have two cards in hand). i could have won the match had he actually known the deck better. he simply netdecked, and whent with what he saw instead of testing it for him self. and it cost him the match.
i meant that. if your going to netdeck atleast try and obtain a view on every card in the deck. and test it to see if you like them or modify it to what you like. dont just go in faith of other peoples prefferances, Develop your own preferances. Because if you dont you may find that "hey i dont like this card" and i may come to wishing that you switched it with some other card. but you didnt because you never "full" tested it. like for instance. 1st round at "a major touney" " i played this guy(playing jund, me playing boros) and he didnt full test with the deck and play it(dude straight up let me path to exile his bbe after he cascaded into blightning, and i only have two cards in hand). i could have won the match had he actually known the deck better. he simply netdecked, and whent with what he saw instead of testing it for him self. and it cost him the match.
So wait. You played someone who did not understand the cascade rules, and during the game you willfully cheated?
i meant that. if your going to netdeck atleast try and obtain a view on every card in the deck. and test it to see if you like them or modify it to what you like. dont just go in faith of other peoples prefferances, Develop your own preferances. Because if you dont you may find that "hey i dont like this card" and i may come to wishing that you switched it with some other card. but you didnt because you never "full" tested it. like for instance. 1st round at "a major touney" " i played this guy(playing jund, me playing boros) and he didnt full test with the deck and play it(dude straight up let me path to exile his bbe after he cascaded into blightning, and i only have two cards in hand). i could have won the match had he actually known the deck better. he simply netdecked, and whent with what he saw instead of testing it for him self. and it cost him the match.
I see your point that people need to do some testing rather than just copy someone else's list.
However, in the last part, you willingly cheated and could have gotten a DQ if a judge had been watching. It's never worth it to do that, no matter how much it seems like it is.
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Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I see your point that people need to do some testing rather than just copy someone else's list.
However, in the last part, you willingly cheated and could have gotten a DQ if a judge had been watching. It's never worth it to do that, no matter how much it seems like it is.
Clearly anyone who netdecks is wholly deserving of being cheated.
Well mr. Knight of Magic, since you've called me out on two posts so far, (I asked for the grixis list) I guess i will respond. First, I already have a 4 color control list that I developed with the help of everyone on this forum. I don't have infinite hours to playtest, so I asked for the grixis list that did well at a tournament. Not once did I say or have intention of copying the deck card for card. I just wanted an Idea of what works in the grixis colors. If you look back on the Cruel Control thread, you would see I was one of the first people running flashfreeze and spreading seas in the sideboard. Granted, I was running spreading sea's to deal with problem lands like Emeria, but soon I independently realized it can color screw an opponent.
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Quote from thundyr »
Jacerator is an aggro deck - it just wins by attacking the library, it doesn't really control the board other than to play a few Fogs
Because price doesn't go down when people sell their cards. Price goes down when demand goes down. Cards rotating out of Standard - less demand. Card not in the top 8 at one tournament - not less demand. Additionally, prices are always sticky on the downside.
What he said....
Thanks spiderboy and Highlight Studios!!!
My trade thread!
mabe you should stop looking up decklists on the internet and be more creative. just like everyone one this site. like the dude who asked for a grixis control list. how about you make your own list and develop deck building skills more. no affense or anything but people have become addicted to net decking, and have stopped developing that... "deck building creative skill". So stop getting on the internet and go make a home browed decklist.
I really don't know what it is about posts like this that push my hate button but they always do.
1) There are way more skilled pilots than there are first-class deckbuilders. Being a wizard at discovering obscure tech or breaking garbage cards through arcane combos should not be a prerequisite for playing the game. People netdeck because the decks are good (usually), and running a good deck dramatically increases your chance of placing in a competitive environment.
2) No matter how diverse metagame, there are only so many general archetypes in Magic, and within those archetypes there is always a best deck (even if it changes from week to week).
If you restrict your deck decisions to the point where people can't play "Jund Midrange" or "Naya Aggro" or "WUR Control" because those decks aren't "original", you won't have any decks to choose from. Any deck that can't be classified by "[color(s)] [deck archetype]" is by definition a random pile that doesn't have a gameplan.
Assuming your deck is an archetype and not a random pile, then the next question is "what are the best cards in this archetype?" This is the whole point of decklists. Decks that perform well in major tournaments are vastly more likely to contain correct card choices, and thus more likely to be imitated. Good ideas, by their nature, spread. Only a handful of people can come independently to the realization that Ruinblaster or MD Flashfreeze or Spreading Seas are excellent choices to combat the current metagame before it becomes general knowledge and anyone else running those cards automatically becomes a "netdecker".
In conclusion, you're wrong, netdecking is fine, get over yourself.
[/hate]
I like your attitude ;D
As for the tournament; Only one Jund? What happend to the Jund decks? Didn't they hit their favourite cascades often enough? *snicker*
Red Deck Wins and Mono Red have always been a powerhouse in any format, and so it continues to be, because it's so stable and fast. I hope we will get to see some new decks when worldwake comes out though, as the meta now basically is nothing new. Except spread em, which btw is very funny xD. (Did i mention i didn't like Jund much? :P)
Jacerator seemed to to have every player draw round 1, as i drew round 1 against it, and all around me was mirror matches of Jace and Spread Um. Spread Um seemed to be the more popular deck between the previous 2 best Blue Decks, and i saw lots of Jund go 0-2 drop, along with a surprising amount of Spread Um at the top later in the day.
This format is as healthy as ever. And its doing so with what might be the most narrow card pool in the history of standard. Jund just didn't lose anything in the rotation, so all the ZEN cards took their time and now have decklists maturing into t1. You may not find the format healthy, but you also may not be looking.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
people like you would like a format no matter what. even if there were only 20 different cards in the format. you would find some retarded reason to say the format is developing or involves skillz
and people like you are close minded to playing other decks but draw-go, or control.
If you wanted to win last year, you had to play 5CC or Fairies. They were control. Guess what, aggro players didn't complain like this.
stop whining and stop going after aggro players.
[/anger]
you cant argue that jund is kind of out of hand. you never had to play 5cc or fairies last season. for some reason everyone seems to have forgotten all the other decks that existed. even when fairies was the big dog, there were still other decks, and even faeries wasn't as dominant as jund is in a lot of areas (mtgo). eh, anyways jund probably didn't do to well because spread em decks probably hated it out. it just has to good of a jund mu, and there wasn't to much jund at most states to begin with.
power nine,reserved list,snow lands,rules changes,planeswalkers,auras,legends,mythics,rares,
counterspell,tarmogoyf,cascade,affinity,equipment,
noobs,powergamers, mods,
net-deckers,fnm,the dci,wotc,negate,psychatog,dredge,bloodbraid elf,people flicking their cards,fairies,cryptic command,dark ritual,eldrazi,path to exile,new formats,new products,yu-gi-oh,baneslayer angel,lotus cobra,core sets,and Mark Rosewater,especially Mark Rosewater.
No, I agree that Jund is out of hand. But do the control players really need whine incessantly about how control isn't very good in this meta.
Aggro wasn't that good last standard. It wasn't this bad, but still. The meta shifted, and whining doesn't change it
Actually, whining is EXACTLY what will change it. Accepting it leads to the developers thinking they did it right and continuing.
Whining on Salvation =/= giving R&D constructive criticism
LMAO!!!!!. you totaly missed the point. The point was that that netdecking wont build your skill at deckbuilding. All it shows is that you can read, Ive seen so many people netdeck and fail its amazing. They end up looking at a really good list from a pro tour, then put it together and FAIL, because they dont have the better knowlege of how to run it/ run it well. like for instanse at states 2 weeks ago 80% of the field was jund, i bet 70% just went on faith that "thats the decklist I want to run" and didnt even try to test other cards and to gain a preference(aka modify it), and didnt even know the ends and outs of the deck. im saying that If you arnt that good dont try and netdeck. try and develop you deckbuilding skills with free creative thought. like if you think to your self....hummmmm.."i want to make a grixis control deck, I dont want to do the work for my self and try to develop my own list...so im going to have someone do the dirty work for me" Trying to make your own lists and playing them before you go look on the internet will help you. like if you had and idea for that"grixis control" try and make your list and play with it....then if you feel like somthing is wrong, then go on the internet and look for "Advise" and make your own decision how you want to mod your deck. A great Jedi wants said "netdecking leads to weekness, weekness leads to being a bad player" So try and be more creative guys dont relay on other people to build your decks for you.
and on that note " Only a handful of people can come independently to the realization that Ruinblaster or MD Flashfreeze or Spreading Seas are excellent choices to combat the current metagame before it becomes general knowledge and anyone else running those cards automatically becomes a "netdecker".
most people only come onto that knowledge because they see that a pro did it. If that pro would have never used said cards then they wouldnt have used the tech. is some smoe would have never used spread'um NObody would be using that deck. Because they think just because its not used means its not good.....And im not on my self, Im just giving advise....douche
Is it your contention that these same people would do better if they didn't netdeck and just threw a deck together at the last minute?
Because the people that grab a list, sleeve it and play it at a tournament are probably not the people who would spend months fine tuning a list from scratch.
Continue playing your original deck and hoping that TOs start giving out points for creativity. Someone has to go 1-3 at FNM every week.
i meant that. if your going to netdeck atleast try and obtain a view on every card in the deck. and test it to see if you like them or modify it to what you like. dont just go in faith of other peoples prefferances, Develop your own preferances. Because if you dont you may find that "hey i dont like this card" and i may come to wishing that you switched it with some other card. but you didnt because you never "full" tested it. like for instance. 1st round at "a major touney" " i played this guy(playing jund, me playing boros) and he didnt full test with the deck and play it(dude straight up let me path to exile his bbe after he cascaded into blightning, and i only have two cards in hand). i could have won the match had he actually known the deck better. he simply netdecked, and whent with what he saw instead of testing it for him self. and it cost him the match.
So wait. You played someone who did not understand the cascade rules, and during the game you willfully cheated?
Good one. You're the problem with society.
I see your point that people need to do some testing rather than just copy someone else's list.
However, in the last part, you willingly cheated and could have gotten a DQ if a judge had been watching. It's never worth it to do that, no matter how much it seems like it is.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Clearly anyone who netdecks is wholly deserving of being cheated.
RDW < Burn Jund
No suprise.
Thanks spiderboy and Highlight Studios!!!
My trade thread!
Uh no.
No it doesn't. Tradition Jund gets slaughtered by RDW, even more so by RDW splash black for term/blightning.
See this Jund: http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=30562
See this Jund: http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=30558
If Jund only runs 4 Bolts and 2-3 Terminates and doesn't draw into at least one of them, you can pretty much call that game over.
RDW easily wins T4 if you aren't dropping removal. If your land comes into play tapped, you aren't dropping removal either.