If you're running ~20 creatures in your MBC deck, then sorry, but you are no longer running MBC.
I'd like to agree with the folks RE: Gargoyle Castle- I have MD'd 2 of them, and I've never regretted it. It's especially good late game if you've got Grim Discoveries to use.
Also on Scepter of Fugue- I have 2 MD'd and it's really great almost all of the time- the really great part about it is that it's one of those cards that's super easy to side out- you either need it or you don't.
Actually I added that card yesterday in place of an infest (since it did not perform too well). I still have to observe results though because I played only against pyromancer's ascension combo where I lost most of the games... either because my opponent is very lucky or the deck is more consistent than it looks... mind sludge and duress did almost nothing... my only solution preboard is to be the agressive deck...
I think against a Pyromancer's Ascension deck I'd side in Hexmages and Sadistic Sacraments- but I am surprised that Duress / Mind Sludge didn't help.
did you test a lot? if you only play one match you cant just conclude "duress/mindsludge dont help"
I probably played a bit more than dozen games of which 3-4 with sideboard...
pre-sideboard I never drew echoes or liliana to tutor but I had the impression that with them it would be an easy win...
post-SB I took in 1 sadistic sacrament, 1 additional echoes, 1 more sludge (still better than removal...) and 4 hexmages taking out 4 disfigures and 3 tendrils (I kept 1 just in case I needed some life when he tried to banefire)
the fact is that with 4 worldy council and 4 ponder my friend always seemed to find the cards that he needed... also after a mind sludge drawing them, a time warp or a naya charm meant that he was back in business... and duress t1 taking out ascension was almost as useless...
post-SB he had something like 4 negate and 2 spell pierce that I also needed to deal with in order to have sadistic sacrament/haunting echoes resolve
once he also managed to charge ascension 3 times and play a second one (I drew 2 hexmages)
I'm pretty sure that if I can resolve echoes or sacrament the game is over but I never managed to get them or an opening for them... on the occasions that he was tapped out I "only" had mind sludge but he almost always got back in game...
the problem with discard is that ascension still has time to recover while against jund and its blightning he did not have that luxury (we played also 2-3 games jund vs pyromancer ascension)
at the moment I'm evaluating the addition of 1 forest and 4 maelstrom pulses because it seems to solve so many of our problems (ie enchantments mainly)... still it is no solution against jund...
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"The bird of wonder dies, the maiden phoenix,
Her ashes new-create another heir
As great in admiration as herself.”
—William Shakespeare, King Henry the Eighth
I really like this deck list. It has a transformative SB to where (if necessary) the deck can be changed to an almost pseudo-vamps by adding ghast and nighthawk. How does it fair against our arch nemesis, Jund. What do you side in? and finally does not having duress hurt your advantage against them? (taking an early pulse from their hand is a very good play imho)
I really like this deck list. It has a transformative SB to where (if necessary) the deck can be changed to an almost pseudo-vamps by adding ghast and nighthawk. How does it fair against our arch nemesis, Jund. What do you side in? and finally does not having duress hurt your advantage against them? (taking an early pulse from their hand is a very good play imho)
TBQH, my meta is infested with RDW, Boros, Vampires, and a few random control decks (such as Esper). It's not an issue yet IRL, but on MWS I have found Jund to be a very hard matchup. I almost need to keep the board locked down until I can drop a turn 5 Mind Sludge (which I don't always have on turn 5). I think Sprouting Thrinax is one of the main threats, and while I can deal with it (Disfigure + block or the card-disadvantageous Tendrils + Infest), it's a serious pain to do so.
TBQH, my meta is infested with RDW, Boros, Vampires, and a few random control decks (such as Esper). It's not an issue yet IRL, but on MWS I have found Jund to be a very hard matchup. I almost need to keep the board locked down until I can drop a turn 5 Mind Sludge (which I don't always have on turn 5). I think Sprouting Thrinax is one of the main threats, and while I can deal with it (Disfigure + block or the card-disadvantageous Tendrils + Infest), it's a serious pain to do so.
So do you think duress would help? I feel it's almost necessary in that MU plus it helps in many other matchups. Taking a blightning and/or pulse can really increase our chances of winnin that game.
for those having problems with jund, thrinax is the most dangerous threat they have vs MBC, therfor the best solution is to not let it hit the board. I use sacraments vs jund and rip out thrinaxes, then broodmates if they have them, then bloodbraid followed buy pulse. I also play four maindeck sacraments and no actual creatures but I'm sure you get the idea. To stop the biggest threat they have sipmly keep them from playing it. As for sideboard options, deathmark is an auto 4-of, sacraments from the board if that's where they are, but duress is not as valuable in the matchup as you may think. Thier biggest advantage is thier creatures. Stop those and stop the deck cold. Since duress does not hit creatures it's really less valuable, better to sludge+echoes.
for those having problems with jund, thrinax is the most dangerous threat they have vs MBC, therfor the best solution is to not let it hit the board. I use sacraments vs jund and rip out thrinaxes, then broodmates if they have them, then bloodbraid followed buy pulse. I also play four maindeck sacraments and no actual creatures but I'm sure you get the idea. To stop the biggest threat they have sipmly keep them from playing it. As for sideboard options, deathmark is an auto 4-of, sacraments from the board if that's where they are, but duress is not as valuable in the matchup as you may think. Thier biggest advantage is thier creatures. Stop those and stop the deck cold. Since duress does not hit creatures it's really less valuable, better to sludge+echoes.
I think your right, Thrinaxe is such a hassle for us...I love Sadistic Sacrament in the SB. The card will be a house vs the combo decks that appear, and maybe against jund?
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I think your right, Thrinaxe is such a hassle for us...I love Sadistic Sacrament in the SB. The card will be a house vs the combo decks that appear, and maybe against jund?
I think Sacrament should have a couple spots main. It allows you to remove there best cards or most troublesome cards from your opponents deck. Since MBC removal is far less impressive then jund or UWx control you need to rely on Sludge/Echoes/Sacrament to even the odds or put them completely in your favor. Seriously, 3 Sludge, 2 Echoes, 2 Sacrament, all main, solves alot of problems. Not like we need to worry about life here just surviving long enough for us to get the life and win the long game, so wrecking the hand and the library is the best strategy you can go with.
One of the big variations we seem to have is in our finishers. Sorin is pretty much a beast in and of himself, but a single big creature is always great. Nightmare has come up, as has Nyaxthid, both of which have their benefits. Bloodwitch seems to be a favorite, most notably due to the fact that she is immune to doomblade, path, and lightning bolt, with the mini drain life effect as a cherry on top.
I run three Ob Nixilises, which I normally play as a 6 drop, hitting for three at least on the turn I drop him and possibly attacking for 9 (plus another three damage) if I can drop a seventh land. I like him because he mitigates the damage of late game mana flood, making otherwise useless late game swamps work for me. I've found that normally by that late in the game I've killed pretty much all their blockers as well, or at least enough for a Nighthawk or Hexmage to slip in while they chump the giant demon with their top decked creatures. Downside is he is legendary, can get instantly killed by a lightning bolt, and doesn't benefit from any swamps played before he hits the field. I do run the bloodwitches in the side however, and would side Ob out in a second against a deck that can consistantly kill him.
Not sure what else is there to consider, but I will say that anyone who runs the Bloodchief of Ghet is crazy.
One of the big variations we seem to have is in our finishers. Sorin is pretty much a beast in and of himself, but a single big creature is always great. Nightmare has come up, as has Nyaxthid, both of which have their benefits. Bloodwitch seems to be a favorite, most notably due to the fact that she is immune to doomblade, path, and lightning bolt, with the mini drain life effect as a cherry on top.
I run three Ob Nixilises, which I normally play as a 6 drop, hitting for three at least on the turn I drop him and possibly attacking for 9 (plus another three damage) if I can drop a seventh land. I like him because he mitigates the damage of late game mana flood, making otherwise useless late game swamps work for me. I've found that normally by that late in the game I've killed pretty much all their blockers as well, or at least enough for a Nighthawk or Hexmage to slip in while they chump the giant demon with their top decked creatures. Downside is he is legendary, can get instantly killed by a lightning bolt, and doesn't benefit from any swamps played before he hits the field. I do run the bloodwitches in the side however, and would side Ob out in a second against a deck that can consistantly kill him.
Not sure what else is there to consider, but I will say that anyone who runs the Bloodchief of Ghet is crazy.
I don't see how Bloodchief is worse than nightmare... for a bit less of P/T and evasion you get the potential to kill larger creatures that come late game... and evasion should not be really a problem since we should already have killed all of their small creatures and if not we still have some disfigures or other stuff for them... Kalitas is just maybe a bit less powerful but more versatile finisher... and it basically dies to the same removals
basically the same argument holds for Ob although he can be easier to kill since if you do not have a fetch land he dies to bolt... either in response to the trigger when you play a land on your turn or in his turn when he cannot play a land...
moreover Bloodchief is the one that requires less land commitment to maximize its impact (nightmare wants swamps -> gargoyle castles hurt a bit there; ob needs 8 fetches and 4 grim discoveries at least and eventually also terramorphic expanses...)
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"The bird of wonder dies, the maiden phoenix,
Her ashes new-create another heir
As great in admiration as herself.”
—William Shakespeare, King Henry the Eighth
I think your right, Thrinaxe is such a hassle for us...I love Sadistic Sacrament in the SB. The card will be a house vs the combo decks that appear, and maybe against jund?
one thinrax out isnt a problem in early-mid game...getting hit for 3 a turn isnt a problem. i would prefer to rip out broodmate dragons before thinraxes with sacrement.
one thinrax out isnt a problem in early-mid game...getting hit for 3 a turn isnt a problem. i would prefer to rip out broodmate dragons before thinraxes with sacrement.
It really does depend on when you get the sacraments. Like I said earlier I play four main so I have no problem getting them. If you just side them in then shoot for thrinaxes early and broodmates right after. Thrinax has a higher chance of hitting play then Broodmate. 3cmc means bloodbraid can hit it and it can be easily played. Broodmate is 6cmc which means you have a bit of breathing room to sludge/echos, sacrament them out before they become a threat. Thrinax is the better target early, but late (like if you had to get threw two already) then thrinax is a worse target then broodmate.
It really does depend on when you get the sacraments. Like I said earlier I play four main so I have no problem getting them. If you just side them in then shoot for thrinaxes early and broodmates right after. Thrinax has a higher chance of hitting play then Broodmate. 3cmc means bloodbraid can hit it and it can be easily played. Broodmate is 6cmc which means you have a bit of breathing room to sludge/echos, sacrament them out before they become a threat. Thrinax is the better target early, but late (like if you had to get threw two already) then thrinax is a worse target then broodmate.
My list of issues game 1 are.
1) Broodmate dragon
2) Garruk Wildspeaker
3) Blightning
4) BBE+BitBlast taking out bloodwitch/sorin.
Thrinax is annoying, you can often deal with it and the tokens fairly reasonably.
My list of issues game 1 are.
1) Broodmate dragon
2) Garruk Wildspeaker
3) Blightning
4) BBE+BitBlast taking out bloodwitch/sorin.
Thrinax is annoying, you can often deal with it and the tokens fairly reasonably.
Those look like reasons enough to play sacrament in numbers main. I really don't see Broodmate as a problem though, not as much as thrinax. They literally have to tap six to play ot since you cant cascade into it.
I don't see how Bloodchief is worse than nightmare... for a bit less of P/T and evasion you get the potential to kill larger creatures that come late game... and evasion should not be really a problem since we should already have killed all of their small creatures and if not we still have some disfigures or other stuff for them... Kalitas is just maybe a bit less powerful but more versatile finisher... and it basically dies to the same removals
basically the same argument holds for Ob although he can be easier to kill since if you do not have a fetch land he dies to bolt... either in response to the trigger when you play a land on your turn or in his turn when he cannot play a land...
moreover Bloodchief is the one that requires less land commitment to maximize its impact (nightmare wants swamps -> gargoyle castles hurt a bit there; ob needs 8 fetches and 4 grim discoveries at least and eventually also terramorphic expanses...)
I just feel that 8 mana is a lot more than 6 in this deck. Especially since a finisher into an open board already peppered with removal is a strong play immediately after a sudden Mindsludge or Haunting Echoes hits the threats they haven't played. Ob and Nightmare both have a strong head start on the Chief in that regard, while powering up as and if the game stretches on.
I also hate big expensive creatures with abilities that prevent them from actually attacking or blocking, though his vampire spawns may make up for this in the long run. He seems like he would dominate in a long multiplayer game or EDH though, in a situation where the game lasts long enough and provides enough targets to take advantage of his bloodsucking tallents.
You might want to give this more time so that way you can see if your feelings persist. If they do, they return to play with a -1/-1 counter and you gain 2 life.
Only 22 lands? and no Malakir Bloodwitch? She is such a house worth a spot in the main deck if you ask me Ive noticed some people are starting to play bob nixilis, the fallen i think he could become a pretty sick card. How does he do for you?
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Only 22 lands? and no Malakir Bloodwitch? She is such a house worth a spot in the main deck if you ask me Ive noticed some people are starting to play bob nixilis, the fallen i think he could become a pretty sick card. How does he do for you?
Sorry the deck has 24 lands... and yes, ob nixilis is way better than malakir if you ask me if played proprely. thing is, you only play it turn 6 and play a fetch land and wait. if they dont do anything, just swing and play your lands, if they attempt to remove it, fetch in response. it can easily do 6-9 damage without even landing a hit. The deck is semi-midrange with the bloodghasts as you noticed.
Malakir is good because it doedges path and purge but at some point, she doesnt do much. it's not much of a clock and its easily raceable(?). As for ob nixilis, if you can land a single hit, you win (notice the 8 fetchs)
Basicly, the strategy is to play few removal but with bloodghast/fetchs shenanigans to increase the gravelord's playability.
You might want to give this more time so that way you can see if your feelings persist. If they do, they return to play with a -1/-1 counter and you gain 2 life.
If you're running ~20 creatures in your MBC deck, then sorry, but you are no longer running MBC.
I'd like to agree with the folks RE: Gargoyle Castle- I have MD'd 2 of them, and I've never regretted it. It's especially good late game if you've got Grim Discoveries to use.
Also on Scepter of Fugue- I have 2 MD'd and it's really great almost all of the time- the really great part about it is that it's one of those cards that's super easy to side out- you either need it or you don't.
I think against a Pyromancer's Ascension deck I'd side in Hexmages and Sadistic Sacraments- but I am surprised that Duress / Mind Sludge didn't help.
I probably played a bit more than dozen games of which 3-4 with sideboard...
pre-sideboard I never drew echoes or liliana to tutor but I had the impression that with them it would be an easy win...
post-SB I took in 1 sadistic sacrament, 1 additional echoes, 1 more sludge (still better than removal...) and 4 hexmages taking out 4 disfigures and 3 tendrils (I kept 1 just in case I needed some life when he tried to banefire)
the fact is that with 4 worldy council and 4 ponder my friend always seemed to find the cards that he needed... also after a mind sludge drawing them, a time warp or a naya charm meant that he was back in business... and duress t1 taking out ascension was almost as useless...
post-SB he had something like 4 negate and 2 spell pierce that I also needed to deal with in order to have sadistic sacrament/haunting echoes resolve
once he also managed to charge ascension 3 times and play a second one (I drew 2 hexmages)
I'm pretty sure that if I can resolve echoes or sacrament the game is over but I never managed to get them or an opening for them... on the occasions that he was tapped out I "only" had mind sludge but he almost always got back in game...
the problem with discard is that ascension still has time to recover while against jund and its blightning he did not have that luxury (we played also 2-3 games jund vs pyromancer ascension)
at the moment I'm evaluating the addition of 1 forest and 4 maelstrom pulses because it seems to solve so many of our problems (ie enchantments mainly)... still it is no solution against jund...
Her ashes new-create another heir
As great in admiration as herself.”
—William Shakespeare, King Henry the Eighth
I really like this deck list. It has a transformative SB to where (if necessary) the deck can be changed to an almost pseudo-vamps by adding ghast and nighthawk. How does it fair against our arch nemesis, Jund. What do you side in? and finally does not having duress hurt your advantage against them? (taking an early pulse from their hand is a very good play imho)
TBQH, my meta is infested with RDW, Boros, Vampires, and a few random control decks (such as Esper). It's not an issue yet IRL, but on MWS I have found Jund to be a very hard matchup. I almost need to keep the board locked down until I can drop a turn 5 Mind Sludge (which I don't always have on turn 5). I think Sprouting Thrinax is one of the main threats, and while I can deal with it (Disfigure + block or the card-disadvantageous Tendrils + Infest), it's a serious pain to do so.
I don't mind getting my 3 drop pathed so I can sludge on turn 4. 6 drop on the other hand.. is just not acceptable,
So do you think duress would help? I feel it's almost necessary in that MU plus it helps in many other matchups. Taking a blightning and/or pulse can really increase our chances of winnin that game.
Would you play Nyxathid on turn 3? I mean, you could, but I don't think I ever have. Granted the turn 4 sludge is nice.
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Cremate
4 Think Twice
3 Forbbiden Alchemy
3 Syncopate
3 Psychic Strike
2 Negate
3 Dimir Charm
3 Tragic Slip
3 Tribute to Hunger
3 Mutilate
2 Vanishment
3 Evolving Wilds
4 Watery Grave
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Island
8 Swamp
I think your right, Thrinaxe is such a hassle for us...I love Sadistic Sacrament in the SB. The card will be a house vs the combo decks that appear, and maybe against jund?
:symb:The Night Mono Black Control:symb:
:symw::symr::symu:IonaMorph:symw::symr::symu:
I think Sacrament should have a couple spots main. It allows you to remove there best cards or most troublesome cards from your opponents deck. Since MBC removal is far less impressive then jund or UWx control you need to rely on Sludge/Echoes/Sacrament to even the odds or put them completely in your favor. Seriously, 3 Sludge, 2 Echoes, 2 Sacrament, all main, solves alot of problems. Not like we need to worry about life here just surviving long enough for us to get the life and win the long game, so wrecking the hand and the library is the best strategy you can go with.
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Cremate
4 Think Twice
3 Forbbiden Alchemy
3 Syncopate
3 Psychic Strike
2 Negate
3 Dimir Charm
3 Tragic Slip
3 Tribute to Hunger
3 Mutilate
2 Vanishment
3 Evolving Wilds
4 Watery Grave
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Island
8 Swamp
I run three Ob Nixilises, which I normally play as a 6 drop, hitting for three at least on the turn I drop him and possibly attacking for 9 (plus another three damage) if I can drop a seventh land. I like him because he mitigates the damage of late game mana flood, making otherwise useless late game swamps work for me. I've found that normally by that late in the game I've killed pretty much all their blockers as well, or at least enough for a Nighthawk or Hexmage to slip in while they chump the giant demon with their top decked creatures. Downside is he is legendary, can get instantly killed by a lightning bolt, and doesn't benefit from any swamps played before he hits the field. I do run the bloodwitches in the side however, and would side Ob out in a second against a deck that can consistantly kill him.
Not sure what else is there to consider, but I will say that anyone who runs the Bloodchief of Ghet is crazy.
I don't see how Bloodchief is worse than nightmare... for a bit less of P/T and evasion you get the potential to kill larger creatures that come late game... and evasion should not be really a problem since we should already have killed all of their small creatures and if not we still have some disfigures or other stuff for them... Kalitas is just maybe a bit less powerful but more versatile finisher... and it basically dies to the same removals
basically the same argument holds for Ob although he can be easier to kill since if you do not have a fetch land he dies to bolt... either in response to the trigger when you play a land on your turn or in his turn when he cannot play a land...
moreover Bloodchief is the one that requires less land commitment to maximize its impact (nightmare wants swamps -> gargoyle castles hurt a bit there; ob needs 8 fetches and 4 grim discoveries at least and eventually also terramorphic expanses...)
Her ashes new-create another heir
As great in admiration as herself.”
—William Shakespeare, King Henry the Eighth
one thinrax out isnt a problem in early-mid game...getting hit for 3 a turn isnt a problem. i would prefer to rip out broodmate dragons before thinraxes with sacrement.
It really does depend on when you get the sacraments. Like I said earlier I play four main so I have no problem getting them. If you just side them in then shoot for thrinaxes early and broodmates right after. Thrinax has a higher chance of hitting play then Broodmate. 3cmc means bloodbraid can hit it and it can be easily played. Broodmate is 6cmc which means you have a bit of breathing room to sludge/echos, sacrament them out before they become a threat. Thrinax is the better target early, but late (like if you had to get threw two already) then thrinax is a worse target then broodmate.
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Cremate
4 Think Twice
3 Forbbiden Alchemy
3 Syncopate
3 Psychic Strike
2 Negate
3 Dimir Charm
3 Tragic Slip
3 Tribute to Hunger
3 Mutilate
2 Vanishment
3 Evolving Wilds
4 Watery Grave
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Island
8 Swamp
My list of issues game 1 are.
1) Broodmate dragon
2) Garruk Wildspeaker
3) Blightning
4) BBE+BitBlast taking out bloodwitch/sorin.
Thrinax is annoying, you can often deal with it and the tokens fairly reasonably.
Those look like reasons enough to play sacrament in numbers main. I really don't see Broodmate as a problem though, not as much as thrinax. They literally have to tap six to play ot since you cant cascade into it.
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Cremate
4 Think Twice
3 Forbbiden Alchemy
3 Syncopate
3 Psychic Strike
2 Negate
3 Dimir Charm
3 Tragic Slip
3 Tribute to Hunger
3 Mutilate
2 Vanishment
3 Evolving Wilds
4 Watery Grave
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Island
8 Swamp
I just feel that 8 mana is a lot more than 6 in this deck. Especially since a finisher into an open board already peppered with removal is a strong play immediately after a sudden Mindsludge or Haunting Echoes hits the threats they haven't played. Ob and Nightmare both have a strong head start on the Chief in that regard, while powering up as and if the game stretches on.
I also hate big expensive creatures with abilities that prevent them from actually attacking or blocking, though his vampire spawns may make up for this in the long run. He seems like he would dominate in a long multiplayer game or EDH though, in a situation where the game lasts long enough and provides enough targets to take advantage of his bloodsucking tallents.
I'm not a extended play but, yeah it seems decent, maybe you should try the extended part of the forums.. hehe
:symb:The Night Mono Black Control:symb:
:symw::symr::symu:IonaMorph:symw::symr::symu:
4 bloodghast
4 vampire nighthawk
4 malakir gatekeeper
4 sign in blood
4 duress
2 infest
4 tendrils
2 mind sludge
2 quest of the gravelord
2 sorin markov
4 marsh flats
2 gargoyle castle
14 swamp
Only 22 lands? and no Malakir Bloodwitch? She is such a house worth a spot in the main deck if you ask me Ive noticed some people are starting to play bob nixilis, the fallen i think he could become a pretty sick card. How does he do for you?
:symb:The Night Mono Black Control:symb:
:symw::symr::symu:IonaMorph:symw::symr::symu:
Sorry the deck has 24 lands... and yes, ob nixilis is way better than malakir if you ask me if played proprely. thing is, you only play it turn 6 and play a fetch land and wait. if they dont do anything, just swing and play your lands, if they attempt to remove it, fetch in response. it can easily do 6-9 damage without even landing a hit. The deck is semi-midrange with the bloodghasts as you noticed.
Malakir is good because it doedges path and purge but at some point, she doesnt do much. it's not much of a clock and its easily raceable(?). As for ob nixilis, if you can land a single hit, you win (notice the 8 fetchs)
Basicly, the strategy is to play few removal but with bloodghast/fetchs shenanigans to increase the gravelord's playability.
:symb:The Night Mono Black Control:symb:
:symw::symr::symu:IonaMorph:symw::symr::symu: