Imo, Its because Jund is easier to pilot compared to Affinity or Faeries. Its not that hard to play Jund compared to the other two and Cascade is a no brainer. Play 1 card and get 1 free. There was also no direct hate/counter to Jund like what happened to Affinity.
I think it has more to do with the sudden bumrush of new players the game is supposedly gaining. We didn't have so many players around during the various heydays of faeries and Affinity. I'm willing to bet more people left the game because of those decks than because of Jund.
Besides, Fae and Affinity were like mobsters knocking on your door with a shotgun and an offer you can't refuse. Jund is more like a teenager with a leather jacket and a baseball bat. You know, that "bad influence friend" type of kid who you're hesitant to say no to because he's "cool" . He just gives off that "rebel" impression, generally to people who are impressionable (Read: New players who barely know how to netdeck) but is in fact actually the biggest douchebag you'll ever meet.
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Imo, Its because Jund is easier to pilot compared to Affinity or Faeries. Its not that hard to play Jund compared to the other two and Cascade is a no brainer. Play 1 card and get 1 free. There was also no direct hate/counter to Jund like what happened to Affinity.
I'll give you faeries being more difficult to pilot.
But Affinity??? Really? Have you played affinity, it is as brainless of a deck as I've ever played.
And there is plenty of hate for jund. Great sable stag, while not as much for jund as it was for faeries is a big hate card. Also how about double negative, mindbreak trap, ethersworn cannonist?
I
But Affinity??? Really? Have you played affinity, it is as brainless of a deck as I've ever played.
I agree. Affinity decks are very one dimensional. You trigger the ability and start dropping fatties. Where's the science? I'm sure there's some, but nothing obvious comes to mind. I beat down a few different Affinity decks with my current type 2 RDW a few days ago. I even beat one with my control deck. Affinity is good sometimes - when you're dropping massive fatties they're awesome. Still, It really is brainless, isn't it?
I think it has more to do with the sudden bumrush of new players the game is supposedly gaining. We didn't have so many players around during the various heydays of faeries and Affinity. I'm willing to bet more people left the game because of those decks than because of Jund.
If one goes by the current histories, Affinity decks were responsible for depleting the player base. New players are "bumrushing" because one-dimensional Affinity decks are a thing of the past. Hopefully.
I don't think a "bumrush of new players" explains why 50% of professional Magic players brought the Jund deck to the Worlds 2009. Emphasis on professional.
Since so many professionals are using Jund, it is obvious why old and new players alike are flocking to the deck. Let's face it, Jund has a ton of strengths going for it. If you haven't tried (or considered trying out) the Jund, then you are probably in some sort of denial.
Why is Jund so popular? Because it's a great deck. Is it the best deck in the format? Maybe. However, remember, 50% of the people showing up at Worlds 2009 brought Jund. A small percentage brought decks like - oh, Monoblack control. Monoblack control made it into the top 8. Amazing. So, the deck can obviously beat Jund on occasion.
If 50% of the people playing in a tournament bring the same sort of deck, then it is quite logical to conclude that that same deck will make it into the top 8 - and probably multiple versions, too. Indeed, 50% of the floor played Jund, and 50% of the top 8 was Jund. It stands to reason then that said deck has a good chance of winning the tournament - merely because of the sheer numbers. Four of the same deck - one of them has a good chance of operating under great circumstances (good draws, against players with bad draws and no land, etc.).
If only 25% of the people at Worlds 2009 had brought Jund, and Jund had still won, then I would be more inclined toward saying "yes, Jund is for sure 'the' great deck of the current Standard."
I'll give you faeries being more difficult to pilot.
But Affinity??? Really? Have you played affinity, it is as brainless of a deck as I've ever played.
And there is plenty of hate for jund. Great sable stag, while not as much for jund as it was for faeries is a big hate card. Also how about double negative, mindbreak trap, ethersworn cannonist?
Imo, As a deck, Affinity is a no brainer compared to Jund but in the standard environment they were in, Affinity had to suffer from alot of hate compared to Jund because it was too strong and thats what made it harder to pilot. You had to deal with alot of hate cards against affinity while Jund only has a few hate/counter to it..
Great Sable Stag dies to bolt and can be used within jund to counterattack the opponent's GSS. Double Negative and Mindbreak Trap forces you to leave mana open during your third/fourth turn (and lose that turn) to try to counter a possible cascade.
Ethersworn Canonist would be FAR from better if was an enchantment OR if it had shroud (it dies to anything).
I really hope to see some real cascade hate (like an enchant like ethersworn with shroud or something) on worldwake...
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What I would give for Paladin en-Vec right now. Something which was a Jund hoser on the level of that card would be fantastic. But here's the real issue. Cascade is *insane*. You needed Cryptic Command and Faeries to keep that beast in check.
Well, until someone comes up with a viable combo. Then, we all cry. Here's to some mediocre but consistent combo dominating post WWK standard.
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In Affinity's defense, it may not have been the hardest deck to play, but it did make my head hurt a few times back in the day... of course, I was a wee lad. And I hate math. This was before 'clamp and DotV were banned (in Standard), so there were a lot of different ways to deal damage and figuring out how to go about it was rough sometimes.
But Affinity??? Really? Have you played affinity, it is as brainless of a deck as I've ever played.
Against other decks pretty much easy, the mirror match was insanely hard tho which is the norm for any top tier dominant deck.
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I will play what wins, not what is convenient. Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters. I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity. Style points do not appear on tournament reports. A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win. I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him. Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
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Affinity is way harder to pilot than Jund. If you don't think so, then you haven't played enough Affinity. Not that it was hard compared to something like Gifts Tron, but compared to Jund....
Also the Affinity Mirror match is way cooler than the Jund mirror match. The Jund mirror match is just stupid and everyone hates playing it.
Also the Affinity Mirror match is way cooler than the Jund mirror match. The Jund mirror match is just stupid and everyone hates playing it.
I agree on this, It was really fun playing affinity for me since it involved math in calculating if you're already dealing lethal and its much harder if its the mirror match..
Besides all of the Affinity hate you had to deal with, you had the Ravager + DotV combo to think about and the vial tricks you could do..
new players+ a deck so easy to pilot it verges on a parody of the game itself= reason why it's so popular. I'm more surprised someone took the time to sit down and write an entire article about such a simple solution.
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new players+ a deck so easy to pilot it verges on a parody of the game itself= reason why it's so popular. I'm more surprised someone took the time to sit down and write an entire article about such a simple solution.
Like someone already said in this thread, new players and an easy to pilot deck doesnt explain why 50% of the PROFESSIONAL magic players chose to run jund at the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP.
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Quote from thundyr »
Jacerator is an aggro deck - it just wins by attacking the library, it doesn't really control the board other than to play a few Fogs
Affinity is way harder to pilot than Jund. If you don't think so, then you haven't played enough Affinity. Not that it was hard compared to something like Gifts Tron, but compared to Jund....
Also the Affinity Mirror match is way cooler than the Jund mirror match. The Jund mirror match is just stupid and everyone hates playing it.
Quoted for its truth in the Affinity - Jund comparison. There is little to no planning ahead involved when playing Jund. Play your land, tap your lands, play a dork or remove a blocker, attack rinse and repeat. Jund takes the most efficient cards from its three colors to make a mid range beast. I would love to see a deck requiring more thought and planning post good numbers in this standard, but that probably is not going to happen for a set or two at least.
BBE has made me cry on numerous occassions. Arguably the best 4 casting cost creature in standard right now, cascading into blightning is the control player's nightmare (Which would be me). Its very disheartening realizing that the best answer for this is Double Negative. Mindbreak Trap is a better option for U/W obviously.
Like someone already said in this thread, new players and an easy to pilot deck doesnt explain why 50% of the PROFESSIONAL magic players chose to run jund at the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP.
you answer your own question, in a way.
jund is an amazingly simple, synergistic and well rounded deck. it lost the least tech from rotation, and was practically built from the ground up for it. new players and proffessionals alike can pick it up and win.
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Anyone who disagrees with "Jack from NC" is an idiot."-The Dead Weatherman
you answer your own question, in a way.
jund is an amazingly simple, synergistic and well rounded deck. it lost the least tech from rotation, and was practically built from the ground up for it. new players and proffessionals alike can pick it up and win.
Yes, it is synergestic and well rounded. Those are valid reasons. More new players and easy to pilot are not valid reasons for the strong showing at worlds.
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Quote from thundyr »
Jacerator is an aggro deck - it just wins by attacking the library, it doesn't really control the board other than to play a few Fogs
Yes, it is synergestic and well rounded. Those are valid reasons. More new players and easy to pilot are not valid reasons for the strong showing at worlds.
How is easy to pilot not a valid reason?
If you're going to play Magic for several hours, a deck thats easier to pilot wont put much stress on you. Also Jund is forgiving for doing bad plays/mistakes. Even Pros gets tired and worn out.
Affinity is way harder to pilot than Jund. If you don't think so, then you haven't played enough Affinity. Not that it was hard compared to something like Gifts Tron, but compared to Jund....
Also the Affinity Mirror match is way cooler than the Jund mirror match. The Jund mirror match is just stupid and everyone hates playing it.
As a guy who played the "wrong build" (Broodstar plus a heavy Blue influence) of Affinity back in the day (pre Darksteel and a little post Darksteel), I'd agree it was far from brainless. Playing around copious amounts of, often maindeck, artifact hate, and knowing how to use all the tools at your disposal (spellbombs, counters, etc.) the right way was far from brainless. Even the aggro version required thought too, though I never played it much, $20-$25 Ravagers was a little too steep for me, seeing as the entirety of my deck beforehand had only cost about $40 to build at the start, and a little trading for Glimmervoids.
If you're going to play Magic for several hours, a deck thats easier to pilot wont put much stress on you. Also Jund is forgiving for doing bad plays/mistakes. Even Pros gets tired and worn out.
I might be wrong, but i don't think being easy to use factors into a pro's decision of what deck to play at the world championship.
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Quote from thundyr »
Jacerator is an aggro deck - it just wins by attacking the library, it doesn't really control the board other than to play a few Fogs
I might be wrong, but i don't think being easy to use factors into a pro's decision of what deck to play at the world championship.
Pros at the World Championship plays different formats. If some of them are good at a certain format then it would make sense to play a deck which is easy to pilot and has a good success at a format your not that good with. And playing for several days and on different formats is tiring and will wore you out.
I'm not trying to say Jund take a genious to play effectivley. But I can't believe how many of you try to make an argument that affinity somehow took a phd to run. It is FAR more mindless than Jund. I'd put it on the same level as white weenie. I'll throw a bunch of artificats out of my hand and play big stuff for free. Yeah that is pretty tough.
I'm not trying to say Jund take a genious to play effectivley. But I can't believe how many of you try to make an argument that affinity somehow took a phd to run. It is FAR more mindless than Jund. I'd put it on the same level as white weenie. I'll throw a bunch of artificats out of my hand and play big stuff for free. Yeah that is pretty tough.
Have you even read the posts as to why Affinity is harder to pilot than Jund in the standard they were in?
If all you do is solitaire or goldfishing then Affinity is indeed brainless but if you consider the fact that your playing against someone and there was ALOT of artifact hate before thats what made Affinity harder to pilot than Jund.
Affinity is aggro-combo sometimes even control while Jund is Aggro-midrage, Affinity is not just playing stuff for free then a fattie. You need to think in advance if you need to combo out on the attack phase and you need to play around with the hate against it..
Im really doubting if you've really played affinity before..
When any PTQ level player or higher is looking at a deck they will tell say two things. Am I comfortable with this deck and does it have the best MU's against the field. Sometimes even if the MU's are not the best your understanding and comfort (especially with a long day of playing ahead) can place you higher than your opponents. This is because a simpler deck helps you make less mistakes and your understanding allows for better plays. This is not true of the myriad of opponents that will run the best deck but are not comfortable and have complex interactions that they are more likely to mess up when they are tired. I believe jund is dominating just like fae did for the same reasons. It can control your opponents board on its pilot or opponent's turn. Add to this that you are getting 2 for 1's with most of your plays. This makes for a strong deck that is not easily dismantled.
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Grats, here is your cookie I took a bite out of it because you're not worth a whole cookie. GL with your horrible tezzeret deck. Shmanka
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The main point he makes is that jund is making showings almost double that of faeries or affinity during their time in standard.
Besides, Fae and Affinity were like mobsters knocking on your door with a shotgun and an offer you can't refuse. Jund is more like a teenager with a leather jacket and a baseball bat. You know, that "bad influence friend" type of kid who you're hesitant to say no to because he's "cool" . He just gives off that "rebel" impression, generally to people who are impressionable (Read: New players who barely know how to netdeck) but is in fact actually the biggest douchebag you'll ever meet.
I'll give you faeries being more difficult to pilot.
But Affinity??? Really? Have you played affinity, it is as brainless of a deck as I've ever played.
And there is plenty of hate for jund. Great sable stag, while not as much for jund as it was for faeries is a big hate card. Also how about double negative, mindbreak trap, ethersworn cannonist?
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I agree. Affinity decks are very one dimensional. You trigger the ability and start dropping fatties. Where's the science? I'm sure there's some, but nothing obvious comes to mind. I beat down a few different Affinity decks with my current type 2 RDW a few days ago. I even beat one with my control deck. Affinity is good sometimes - when you're dropping massive fatties they're awesome. Still, It really is brainless, isn't it?
If one goes by the current histories, Affinity decks were responsible for depleting the player base. New players are "bumrushing" because one-dimensional Affinity decks are a thing of the past. Hopefully.
I don't think a "bumrush of new players" explains why 50% of professional Magic players brought the Jund deck to the Worlds 2009. Emphasis on professional.
Since so many professionals are using Jund, it is obvious why old and new players alike are flocking to the deck. Let's face it, Jund has a ton of strengths going for it. If you haven't tried (or considered trying out) the Jund, then you are probably in some sort of denial.
Why is Jund so popular? Because it's a great deck. Is it the best deck in the format? Maybe. However, remember, 50% of the people showing up at Worlds 2009 brought Jund. A small percentage brought decks like - oh, Monoblack control. Monoblack control made it into the top 8. Amazing. So, the deck can obviously beat Jund on occasion.
If 50% of the people playing in a tournament bring the same sort of deck, then it is quite logical to conclude that that same deck will make it into the top 8 - and probably multiple versions, too. Indeed, 50% of the floor played Jund, and 50% of the top 8 was Jund. It stands to reason then that said deck has a good chance of winning the tournament - merely because of the sheer numbers. Four of the same deck - one of them has a good chance of operating under great circumstances (good draws, against players with bad draws and no land, etc.).
If only 25% of the people at Worlds 2009 had brought Jund, and Jund had still won, then I would be more inclined toward saying "yes, Jund is for sure 'the' great deck of the current Standard."
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Imo, As a deck, Affinity is a no brainer compared to Jund but in the standard environment they were in, Affinity had to suffer from alot of hate compared to Jund because it was too strong and thats what made it harder to pilot. You had to deal with alot of hate cards against affinity while Jund only has a few hate/counter to it..
Just my 2 cents..
Ethersworn Canonist would be FAR from better if was an enchantment OR if it had shroud (it dies to anything).
I really hope to see some real cascade hate (like an enchant like ethersworn with shroud or something) on worldwake...
Sorry for my english mistakes, I'm a Brazilian guy.
Well, until someone comes up with a viable combo. Then, we all cry. Here's to some mediocre but consistent combo dominating post WWK standard.
Against other decks pretty much easy, the mirror match was insanely hard tho which is the norm for any top tier dominant deck.
Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters.
I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity.
Style points do not appear on tournament reports.
A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win.
I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him.
Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
Also the Affinity Mirror match is way cooler than the Jund mirror match. The Jund mirror match is just stupid and everyone hates playing it.
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
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I agree on this, It was really fun playing affinity for me since it involved math in calculating if you're already dealing lethal and its much harder if its the mirror match..
Besides all of the Affinity hate you had to deal with, you had the Ravager + DotV combo to think about and the vial tricks you could do..
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Actual Truth:
Like someone already said in this thread, new players and an easy to pilot deck doesnt explain why 50% of the PROFESSIONAL magic players chose to run jund at the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP.
Quoted for its truth in the Affinity - Jund comparison. There is little to no planning ahead involved when playing Jund. Play your land, tap your lands, play a dork or remove a blocker, attack rinse and repeat. Jund takes the most efficient cards from its three colors to make a mid range beast. I would love to see a deck requiring more thought and planning post good numbers in this standard, but that probably is not going to happen for a set or two at least.
BBE has made me cry on numerous occassions. Arguably the best 4 casting cost creature in standard right now, cascading into blightning is the control player's nightmare (Which would be me). Its very disheartening realizing that the best answer for this is Double Negative. Mindbreak Trap is a better option for U/W obviously.
you answer your own question, in a way.
jund is an amazingly simple, synergistic and well rounded deck. it lost the least tech from rotation, and was practically built from the ground up for it. new players and proffessionals alike can pick it up and win.
Thanks, Heroes of The Planes! You guys are great!
Actual Truth:
Yes, it is synergestic and well rounded. Those are valid reasons. More new players and easy to pilot are not valid reasons for the strong showing at worlds.
How is easy to pilot not a valid reason?
If you're going to play Magic for several hours, a deck thats easier to pilot wont put much stress on you. Also Jund is forgiving for doing bad plays/mistakes. Even Pros gets tired and worn out.
As a guy who played the "wrong build" (Broodstar plus a heavy Blue influence) of Affinity back in the day (pre Darksteel and a little post Darksteel), I'd agree it was far from brainless. Playing around copious amounts of, often maindeck, artifact hate, and knowing how to use all the tools at your disposal (spellbombs, counters, etc.) the right way was far from brainless. Even the aggro version required thought too, though I never played it much, $20-$25 Ravagers was a little too steep for me, seeing as the entirety of my deck beforehand had only cost about $40 to build at the start, and a little trading for Glimmervoids.
I might be wrong, but i don't think being easy to use factors into a pro's decision of what deck to play at the world championship.
Pros at the World Championship plays different formats. If some of them are good at a certain format then it would make sense to play a deck which is easy to pilot and has a good success at a format your not that good with. And playing for several days and on different formats is tiring and will wore you out.
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My trade thread!
Have you even read the posts as to why Affinity is harder to pilot than Jund in the standard they were in?
If all you do is solitaire or goldfishing then Affinity is indeed brainless but if you consider the fact that your playing against someone and there was ALOT of artifact hate before thats what made Affinity harder to pilot than Jund.
Affinity is aggro-combo sometimes even control while Jund is Aggro-midrage, Affinity is not just playing stuff for free then a fattie. You need to think in advance if you need to combo out on the attack phase and you need to play around with the hate against it..
Im really doubting if you've really played affinity before..