One of the few equips that should be run IMO is Behemoth Sledge. I ran it as a 1 of, and it did alright. I liked it when I had it, but most of the time I really didn't need it. And I could have won the game without it.
I've been trying 3 Jaces in the side for 5CC/U-W Baneslayer control. They normally have a hard time killing a walker efficiently (especially Elspeth) and they always always have Card advantage over most decks. Especially aggro. So far I've liked them, but I haven't haf the chance to test them out quite as much as I would like.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Like DotA/HoN? You should definitely check out League of Legends <--Sign up link for you.
Plus, if if you feel like watching a few games: My Stream
I'm normally on most nights between 6pm-whenever.
is elspeth rly that good,
I tried playing 2 copies and every time i drew here she was really quite underwhelming.
card advantage is nt how bant wins, at leas tnot bant aggro, if you want to play heretic and garuuk and jace, elspeth, hell maybe throw in a few wraths and a baneslayer angel for good measure, thats fine, but personally I will stick to the 3/2 flying for 2 and using rafiq/finest and a few counters to steal wins where I really shouldn't be aloud to :).
Bant Aggro doesn't need equips to help out. They cost too much (5/6 to get online is painful when you should be protecting your early threat or dropping a Rafiq/ Elspeth.)
I've toyed around with the idea of running Jace SB for the control matchups, but I really don't think he's necessary (all we need to win vs. 5CC or U/W Control is 4 Negate/ Bane Charm to hit their Cryptics and Pithing Needle to shut down Archmage, Ajani V etc.)
I've been considering the Heretic, but at 1/1, he's way too fragile, and I don't think his possible card advantage is worth it. Post-rotation I'm not sure I'll have a choice, and he'll get tested for sure. I'm still waiting on a solid 2 drop from ZEN to replace Mimic (if not it's more than likely going to be Pridemage.)
Edit: Elspeth is never bad. With Rhox on board you're gaining more life. With an Infiltrator on board it's hitting harder. With an empty board you get a token to keep the board even. Coupled with Finest Hour or Rafiq she's a game breaker, and for the people running Time Warp, she gets even better. But what I really like about her is how she tends to draw fire, at least for a turn. She typically gets Pulsed or burned within her first few turns in play, and I can handle that if my opponent isn't killing my Rhox or Infiltrator.
y does no one think esper stormblade is an acceptable two drop??????????????
It's too conditional. Turn 3 we need to successfully cast a Rhox or Rafiq (or anything multicolored) for it to be efficient. It's not a bad 2 drop, just not an acceptable one for competitive. Also for it to be optimal borderposts would come into the discussion and... *shudders
It's too conditional. Turn 3 we need to successfully cast a Rhox or Rafiq (or anything multicolored) for it to be efficient. It's not a bad 2 drop, just not an acceptable one for competitive. Also for it to be optimal borderposts would come into the discussion and... *shudders
i highly agree to taint.. it's way too conditional for turn 3.. though it's his choice to use the blade.. but me personally i'd go for infiltrator..and im already thinking since our main threat is fallout. right?.. we can counter it by the mindbreak trap right?.. if im not mistaken..
I've come through with some success on this deck. The main two problems with WUG aggro is defense, and mana base. Hierarch solves problem two. Defense is solved with Fog and Baneslayer (which is anti R/B demigod and Jund dragons). Speed is never a problem here. Ardent plea brings out infiltrator in a clutch often times, and Aven Squire is actually a great flier to have around. Ajani coupled with Rafiq is a game-winning play.
Concerning the Infiltrator/Stormblade/Heretic debate, its Infiltrator all day. Id say that beyond 1 2cc and your accel dudes, an enemy Fallout becomes too taxing. However, if they fallout to get just 1 Hierarch and 1 Infiltrator, then both creatures already served their purpose.
Elspeth is downright amazing. I'll be trying to keep her around for as long as I can. Alot of times against 5CC, they have answers to just about every threat (a well placed Hallowed Burial can really put a damper on things). Even with only 2 creatures on the board.
I was just looking at something to give a little card draw against 5CC and since they have a problem with dealing with Elspeth (or walkers in general) I figured I'd give them a shot. Plus, he's more reliable than Heretic. With heretic, I've tried him another deck and he seems good in theory, but I never got a whole lot out of him.
-Pinball, Plea has waaay too many targets for you to hit an infiltrator when you need him (13 noncreature spells + 8 more other creatures). If you feel the need of 4 finest hours, go with a vigilant creature such as Stoic Angel. Doubling/tripling up on the hours w/o the untap isn't going to do you any good past the first.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Like DotA/HoN? You should definitely check out League of Legends <--Sign up link for you.
Plus, if if you feel like watching a few games: My Stream
I'm normally on most nights between 6pm-whenever.
i highly agree to taint.. it's way too conditional for turn 3.. though it's his choice to use the blade.. but me personally i'd go for infiltrator..and im already thinking since our main threat is fallout. right?.. we can counter it by the mindbreak trap right?.. if im not mistaken..
Precisely. At least that's how I'm reading the card (Mindbreak Trap that is.)
for what you use elspeth in bant aggro? to pump creatures up, right?
Most of the time yes that will really do it. +3/+3 and flying plus exalted triggers will be crazy. Elspeth gives you more reach for finishing the game and if need be 1/1 token generator after sweeps.
Most of the time yes that will really do it. +3/+3 and flying plus exalted triggers will be crazy. Elspeth gives you more reach for finishing the game and if need be 1/1 token generator after sweeps.
Not to mention, with enough cover, b/r decks begin to fear your ability to become indestructible. Your cheap counters can be used to protect yourself from direct shots instead of your creatures. In general, elspeth typically becomes a high priority target, which usually draws enemy damage off of you or your creatures. Combined with unblockables, elspeth becomes a nice win condition and sometimes a shield with the token chumper. In my opinion, I don't think she's necessary, but I really like how she works in my deck.
You're running way to many non-creature spells IMO. To be Aggro enough, you need at least 20-24 threats. Also Ajani is not as good as Elspeth in Bant.
Yeah. That's just the standard balance. When I face off against other aggro or control, I usually board in more creatures. Most of my board is creatures, so when the going gets tough, I add more threats. Also, I argue that Ajani is better because Bant is terrible defensively. Exalted is basically a one-way Bushido, so it only works on offense. The +1/+1 counter Ajani gives is a permanent offensive and defensive boost, as well as giving vigilance. That's why I run him.
Hey guys, I've lurked here for about a year or two, but am a first time poster.
I've been playing bant for months now, and have tried to make my deck a bit rotation proof. I took out my 2 Cryptics for Jaces, and the 4 shorecrashers were replaced by Stoics. Now, this lets me continue to come out fast with Jessian and Rhox, but I can also slow down and play more tempo against control and swarm decks without sideboarding as much. What do you guys think? I still consider my list a bant aggro one, but I like being able to slow down and play control if I need too.
And what do people think about running Sable Stag maindeck? Good idea or no? What would someone take out for it?
And what do people think about running Sable Stag maindeck? Good idea or no? What would someone take out for it?
It all depends on the types of decks ran in your meta. If there's a majority of blue or black, I say you should. In my meta, there's too much white weenie, so I don't get the luxury to main deck my stags :mad:.
It all depends on the types of decks ran in your meta. If there's a majority of blue or black, I say you should. In my meta, there's too much white weenie, so I don't get the luxury to main deck my stags :mad:.
That's what I thought. The problem is, I can't tell if my meta can justify it either. Most of the people I play with bring slightly new/changed decks every week. I might just play it today and see how it goes down. I'll probably post a deck list on here soon too. I need some outside feedback.
I've shifted from Bant aggro, which I don't believe is viable without Shorecrasher Mimic, to Bant midrange. Of course 150 ZEN cards need to be spoiled, but I'm liking this current build I have.
The lifegain more than makes up for the beating it takes in the first 3 turns. Wall of Reverence and Mycoid Shepherd work incredibly together, and I use those walls to protect my Walkers so they can pump out tokens and such. (Elspeth +3/+3 pump + Shepherd + Wall of Reverence is GG)
I geuss I just don't see losing a single point of damage because you don't have a three drop its two points of dmg with rafiq, and the difference between 8 dmg and 10 is so, soooooo important I understand its situational but the situation jsut comes up almost everytime so it really doesn't matter.
what do you guys think of River Boa in here. I think a threat that protects itself is needed. Turn two u drop it and you can protect it without the bant charm or negate. I dunno, I hope zen has an even better regen creature but river boa seems pretty decent. Most of my losses come from them killing all my threats right after i play them. I never even have time to get escort out and i never have mana to protect them. I think one green is easier to do.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTG Rules Advisor
Quote from thundyr »
Jacerator is an aggro deck - it just wins by attacking the library, it doesn't really control the board other than to play a few Fogs
what do you guys think of River Boa in here. I think a threat that protects itself is needed. Turn two u drop it and you can protect it without the bant charm or negate. I dunno, I hope zen has an even better regen creature but river boa seems pretty decent. Most of my losses come from them killing all my threats right after i play them. I never even have time to get escort out and i never have mana to protect them. I think one green is easier to do.
We have a better hoser in the Sable Stag. Plus River Boa is basically 3 mana, 2 to cast, 1 to keep open to regenerate.
I've shifted from Bant aggro, which I don't believe is viable without Shorecrasher Mimic, to Bant midrange. Of course 150 ZEN cards need to be spoiled, but I'm liking this current build I have.
The lifegain more than makes up for the beating it takes in the first 3 turns. Wall of Reverence and Mycoid Shepherd work incredibly together, and I use those walls to protect my Walkers so they can pump out tokens and such. (Elspeth +3/+3 pump + Shepherd + Wall of Reverence is GG)
that deck is absurd with life gain if i may say, but you're running with stags MD so i assume blue and black are rampant at ur place.. but why aren't you running negate?.. just a question bro...
and currently im running a modified bant right now i've already splash black ..(currently testing and ATM it's working quite well)
that deck is absurd with life gain if i may say, but you're running with stags MD so i assume blue and black are rampant at ur place.. but why aren't you running negate?.. just a question bro...
and currently im running a modified bant right now i've already splash black ..(currently testing and ATM it's working quite well)
I think I'm going to move the Stag to the SB and move the Negates to the MD. I just wanted more 3 drops.
I just realized that Scute Mob would be fantastic in this deck. He can be a chump blocker or a late game beater / life gain engine when coupled with Wall of Reverence.
EDIT: Realized that this deck doesn't need Garruk. An overrun ability doesn't work well with the whole 'attack with one guy a turn' theme.
I geuss I just don't see losing a single point of damage because you don't have a three drop its two points of dmg with rafiq, and the difference between 8 dmg and 10 is so, soooooo important I understand its situational but the situation jsut comes up almost everytime so it really doesn't matter.
I'm not sure what you mean by this... Are you referring to how Fetchlands hit us for 1? Cause that's pretty much irrelevant...
Are you talking about instances of exalted maybe?
I'm very confused by what you posted, and it would be cool if you could clarify what you meant
As to the Vedalken Heretic discussion: I'd really like for my deck to have 7-8 two-drops, 4 of those will be Jhessian Infiltrator, and I'm just considering the Heretic for the other slot. More than likely it will end up being Qasali Pridemage, but I figure Heretic is worth testing at least.
I'm not sure what you mean by this... Are you referring to how Fetchlands hit us for 1? Cause that's pretty much irrelevant...
Are you talking about instances of exalted maybe?
I'm very confused by what you posted, and it would be cool if you could clarify what you meant
As to the Vedalken Heretic discussion: I'd really like for my deck to have 7-8 two-drops, 4 of those will be Jhessian Infiltrator, and I'm just considering the Heretic for the other slot. More than likely it will end up being Qasali Pridemage, but I figure Heretic is worth testing at least.
The Heretic has done good for me in testing, but only if you run Harm's Way as a 4-of.
When you attack with him they'll always block in the early turns with a 2/2, which lets you play Harm's Way to kill their creature. If they don't block, you've got card advantage.
Plus, a sweet move is a turn 1 Hierarch, turn 2 Heretic, then when they try to Pyroclasm on their turn, you save your Heretic with Harm's Way, then beat in with it on turn 3. Granted this only happened to me once, but it was sweet.
im sorry I was unclear I was talking about the difference between the 2/2 unblockable and the 3/2 esper stormblade, I am actually only running stormblade as my two drops, however I'm also running all 8 acceleraters so that might influence a bit. no, the one point from the fetchland is completely irrelevant I agree. there are just so few decks running flying creatures these days (no im not counting baneslayer angel) that I have relegated infiltraitor to my sb. I'm not sayin you have to like it I am merely discussing its merits, just test it, I think you will see great results.
I've been trying 3 Jaces in the side for 5CC/U-W Baneslayer control. They normally have a hard time killing a walker efficiently (especially Elspeth) and they always always have Card advantage over most decks. Especially aggro. So far I've liked them, but I haven't haf the chance to test them out quite as much as I would like.
Plus, if if you feel like watching a few games: My Stream
I'm normally on most nights between 6pm-whenever.
I tried playing 2 copies and every time i drew here she was really quite underwhelming.
card advantage is nt how bant wins, at leas tnot bant aggro, if you want to play heretic and garuuk and jace, elspeth, hell maybe throw in a few wraths and a baneslayer angel for good measure, thats fine, but personally I will stick to the 3/2 flying for 2 and using rafiq/finest and a few counters to steal wins where I really shouldn't be aloud to :).
I AM TEH MASTAH O FAIL
ty spiderboys
I've toyed around with the idea of running Jace SB for the control matchups, but I really don't think he's necessary (all we need to win vs. 5CC or U/W Control is 4 Negate/ Bane Charm to hit their Cryptics and Pithing Needle to shut down Archmage, Ajani V etc.)
I've been considering the Heretic, but at 1/1, he's way too fragile, and I don't think his possible card advantage is worth it. Post-rotation I'm not sure I'll have a choice, and he'll get tested for sure. I'm still waiting on a solid 2 drop from ZEN to replace Mimic (if not it's more than likely going to be Pridemage.)
Edit: Elspeth is never bad. With Rhox on board you're gaining more life. With an Infiltrator on board it's hitting harder. With an empty board you get a token to keep the board even. Coupled with Finest Hour or Rafiq she's a game breaker, and for the people running Time Warp, she gets even better. But what I really like about her is how she tends to draw fire, at least for a turn. She typically gets Pulsed or burned within her first few turns in play, and I can handle that if my opponent isn't killing my Rhox or Infiltrator.
:symw::symu::symg:Sovereign Mythic (8-4-0)
:symw::symu:Mythic Bant (20-10-0)
:symr::symb::symg: Jund
:symw::symr::symg:Where Ancients Suck
I AM TEH MASTAH O FAIL
ty spiderboys
It's too conditional. Turn 3 we need to successfully cast a Rhox or Rafiq (or anything multicolored) for it to be efficient. It's not a bad 2 drop, just not an acceptable one for competitive. Also for it to be optimal borderposts would come into the discussion and... *shudders
:symw::symu::symg:Sovereign Mythic (8-4-0)
:symw::symu:Mythic Bant (20-10-0)
:symr::symb::symg: Jund
:symw::symr::symg:Where Ancients Suck
i highly agree to taint.. it's way too conditional for turn 3.. though it's his choice to use the blade.. but me personally i'd go for infiltrator..and im already thinking since our main threat is fallout. right?.. we can counter it by the mindbreak trap right?.. if im not mistaken..
I've come through with some success on this deck. The main two problems with WUG aggro is defense, and mana base. Hierarch solves problem two. Defense is solved with Fog and Baneslayer (which is anti R/B demigod and Jund dragons). Speed is never a problem here. Ardent plea brings out infiltrator in a clutch often times, and Aven Squire is actually a great flier to have around. Ajani coupled with Rafiq is a game-winning play.
FNM: 8-3
Only spiderboy4 at High~Light could do it like this! Thanks spidey!
I was just looking at something to give a little card draw against 5CC and since they have a problem with dealing with Elspeth (or walkers in general) I figured I'd give them a shot. Plus, he's more reliable than Heretic. With heretic, I've tried him another deck and he seems good in theory, but I never got a whole lot out of him.
-Pinball, Plea has waaay too many targets for you to hit an infiltrator when you need him (13 noncreature spells + 8 more other creatures). If you feel the need of 4 finest hours, go with a vigilant creature such as Stoic Angel. Doubling/tripling up on the hours w/o the untap isn't going to do you any good past the first.
Plus, if if you feel like watching a few games: My Stream
I'm normally on most nights between 6pm-whenever.
Precisely. At least that's how I'm reading the card (Mindbreak Trap that is.)
You're running way to many non-creature spells IMO. To be Aggro enough, you need at least 20-24 threats. Also Ajani is not as good as Elspeth in Bant.
:symw::symu::symg:Sovereign Mythic (8-4-0)
:symw::symu:Mythic Bant (20-10-0)
:symr::symb::symg: Jund
:symw::symr::symg:Where Ancients Suck
Most of the time yes that will really do it. +3/+3 and flying plus exalted triggers will be crazy. Elspeth gives you more reach for finishing the game and if need be 1/1 token generator after sweeps.
Not to mention, with enough cover, b/r decks begin to fear your ability to become indestructible. Your cheap counters can be used to protect yourself from direct shots instead of your creatures. In general, elspeth typically becomes a high priority target, which usually draws enemy damage off of you or your creatures. Combined with unblockables, elspeth becomes a nice win condition and sometimes a shield with the token chumper. In my opinion, I don't think she's necessary, but I really like how she works in my deck.
MTG Rules Advisor
Standard
UW UW Control
B MBC (developing)
Legacy
WUG Bant
Yeah. That's just the standard balance. When I face off against other aggro or control, I usually board in more creatures. Most of my board is creatures, so when the going gets tough, I add more threats. Also, I argue that Ajani is better because Bant is terrible defensively. Exalted is basically a one-way Bushido, so it only works on offense. The +1/+1 counter Ajani gives is a permanent offensive and defensive boost, as well as giving vigilance. That's why I run him.
FNM: 8-3
I've been playing bant for months now, and have tried to make my deck a bit rotation proof. I took out my 2 Cryptics for Jaces, and the 4 shorecrashers were replaced by Stoics. Now, this lets me continue to come out fast with Jessian and Rhox, but I can also slow down and play more tempo against control and swarm decks without sideboarding as much. What do you guys think? I still consider my list a bant aggro one, but I like being able to slow down and play control if I need too.
And what do people think about running Sable Stag maindeck? Good idea or no? What would someone take out for it?
It all depends on the types of decks ran in your meta. If there's a majority of blue or black, I say you should. In my meta, there's too much white weenie, so I don't get the luxury to main deck my stags :mad:.
MTG Rules Advisor
Standard
UW UW Control
B MBC (developing)
Legacy
WUG Bant
That's what I thought. The problem is, I can't tell if my meta can justify it either. Most of the people I play with bring slightly new/changed decks every week. I might just play it today and see how it goes down. I'll probably post a deck list on here soon too. I need some outside feedback.
Bant Midrange:
4x Great Sable Stag
4x Rafiq of the Many
4x Rhox War Monk
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Wall of Reverence
2x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Elspeth, Knight Errant
4x Bant Charm
4x Path to Exile
2x Harm's Way
4x Seaside Citadel
7x Forest
5x Island
2x Plains
4x Negate
4x Celestial Purge
3x Qasali Pridemage
2x Mark of Asylum
2x Pithing Needle
The lifegain more than makes up for the beating it takes in the first 3 turns. Wall of Reverence and Mycoid Shepherd work incredibly together, and I use those walls to protect my Walkers so they can pump out tokens and such. (Elspeth +3/+3 pump + Shepherd + Wall of Reverence is GG)
I AM TEH MASTAH O FAIL
ty spiderboys
We have a better hoser in the Sable Stag. Plus River Boa is basically 3 mana, 2 to cast, 1 to keep open to regenerate.
that deck is absurd with life gain if i may say, but you're running with stags MD so i assume blue and black are rampant at ur place.. but why aren't you running negate?.. just a question bro...
and currently im running a modified bant right now i've already splash black ..(currently testing and ATM it's working quite well)
I think I'm going to move the Stag to the SB and move the Negates to the MD. I just wanted more 3 drops.
I just realized that Scute Mob would be fantastic in this deck. He can be a chump blocker or a late game beater / life gain engine when coupled with Wall of Reverence.
EDIT: Realized that this deck doesn't need Garruk. An overrun ability doesn't work well with the whole 'attack with one guy a turn' theme.
I'm not sure what you mean by this... Are you referring to how Fetchlands hit us for 1? Cause that's pretty much irrelevant...
Are you talking about instances of exalted maybe?
I'm very confused by what you posted, and it would be cool if you could clarify what you meant
As to the Vedalken Heretic discussion: I'd really like for my deck to have 7-8 two-drops, 4 of those will be Jhessian Infiltrator, and I'm just considering the Heretic for the other slot. More than likely it will end up being Qasali Pridemage, but I figure Heretic is worth testing at least.
:symw::symu::symg:Sovereign Mythic (8-4-0)
:symw::symu:Mythic Bant (20-10-0)
:symr::symb::symg: Jund
:symw::symr::symg:Where Ancients Suck
The Heretic has done good for me in testing, but only if you run Harm's Way as a 4-of.
When you attack with him they'll always block in the early turns with a 2/2, which lets you play Harm's Way to kill their creature. If they don't block, you've got card advantage.
Plus, a sweet move is a turn 1 Hierarch, turn 2 Heretic, then when they try to Pyroclasm on their turn, you save your Heretic with Harm's Way, then beat in with it on turn 3. Granted this only happened to me once, but it was sweet.
I AM TEH MASTAH O FAIL
ty spiderboys