It was already explained earlier. They sac for multiple turns, drop more lands more artifacts, when you run out of stuff to sac, play open the vaults, lather, rinse, repeat, kill. It's crazy. I knew open the vaults might see some play, but this just took me by surprise. This is great.
Although, drop an underworld dreams and it'll be a race to kill their draws or they kill you.
More importantly, when you Open the Vaults on your "garbage-2-drop-cantrippers," you get an extra turn with 2-4 extra cards in hand. I have quickly fallen for the deck and if you can survive to t5, it's lights out.
Love the Maindeck Canonist in Ruel's list, although I think they are almost better in the side because opp is likely to side out most removal after not seeing any creatures g1.
my mouth is full of winsome lies -
and eyes are full of death besides
but luckily the soul is wise -
it sees beyond my blindness and
forced failure makes a better guise,
so as i come again alive,
it feels like life's a decent plan
Bad. I have come ridiculously close to decking myself before and that would just make it happen faster.
1 Font is fine. Howling Mine effects are really good in this deck, and the Font lets you Time Sieve with 6 artifacts out without wrecking your draw engine. Its not an optimal turn 4 play, but isn't the worst thing in the world.
The only way you can deck yourself with this deck is by not paying attention. Count your library, and sac away the required number of Howling Mine effects so you don't have to keep drawing.
there were two OTV-s in estonian nats, which were sadly open nationals.
One was 3-0 and later made top 8, other was 2-1, with only loss in mirror:) and didn't make it. the 3-0 lost in the quarters to faeries 0-3.
I believe the deck cannot beat faeries.
I played Kithkin and had Lapse of Certainty for it. In testing Lapse meant that if you draw it you won't lose.
there were two OTV-s in estonian nats, which were sadly open nationals.
One was 3-0 and later made top 8, other was 2-1, with only loss in mirror:) and didn't make it. the 3-0 lost in the quarters to faeries 0-3.
I believe the deck cannot beat faeries.
I played Kithkin and had Lapse of Certainty for it. In testing Lapse meant that if you draw it you won't lose.
Please explain how a Lapse of Certainty means you cannot lose.
It tests well against 5cc, Jund, and Kithkin. It's good against Fae g1, and 50/50 g2. It's dead to Elfball 90% of the time. I don't kn ow how to make that matchup better. : /
I would like to get a third Cryptic but I don't feel like buying one so close to the rotation.
With my feet upon the ground
I move myself between the sounds,
And open wide to suck it in
I feel it move across my skin,
I'm reaching up and reaching out,
I'm reaching for the random or
Whatever will bewilder me,
Whatever will bewilder me,
And following our will and wind
We may just go where no one's been,
We'll ride the spiral to the end,
And may just go where no one's been.
The reason I like O-Ring is because even if it's destroyed, it comes back with your Vaults.
For a second there I was like, "awesome that makes so much sense!" then I realized that since it comes into play at the same time as everything else you wouldn't be able to attach it to anything that wasn't already on the board.
Now that said, if they destroyed a Oblivion Ring that was on a Pithing Needle more than likely the needle is still in play and you can just re-target it.
The reason I like these cards is that they cantrip for 1, and both serve a purpose after a vault - hulks are an alternative win condition, and the architects sort out the top of your deck ala Top style, which is seems fine, but might be unescessary considering the amount of cards you draw.
What are people's thoughts on these 1 mana cycling creatures?
Well I just realised something about Glassdust Hulk. If he has been cycled and then you cast Open the Vaults I'm not so sure that he'll get the bonuses since all the artifacts came into play at the same time.
Well I just realised something about Glassdust Hulk. If he has been cycled and then you cast Open the Vaults I'm not so sure that he'll get the bonuses since all the artifacts came into play at the same time.
I think you're right... however, this doesn't make him a bad card - once you start the Sieve-sac-vault cycle with the Husk in play, you're swinging in for a crap ton of damage each turn...
Also, even if it did work with Open the Vault, it would have summoning sickness anyway. He needs to stay on your board for a turn before he really starts kicking ass.
Please explain how a Lapse of Certainty means you cannot lose.
Simple, If I get an average draw, the OTV player needs Cryptic/fog effect every turn since turn 4 or maybe sometimes 5. I counter the fog and win.
Seems naive, but I tested the deck against the guy who went 3-0 previous night and I won every game in which I drew Lapse. I believe we played around 10 games after side and I won 7-8.
For a second there I was like, "awesome that makes so much sense!" then I realized that since it comes into play at the same time as everything else you wouldn't be able to attach it to anything that wasn't already on the board.
Now that said, if they destroyed a Oblivion Ring that was on a Pithing Needle more than likely the needle is still in play and you can just re-target it.
Something to play around with, no doubt.
Yes it would be able too. O-Ring doesn't target until it is in play. Everything comes in, abilities go on the stack. O-ring is one of those abilities on the stack, it targets their needle (or whatever).
Yes it would be able too. O-Ring doesn't target until it is in play. Everything comes in, abilities go on the stack. O-ring is one of those abilities on the stack, it targets their needle (or whatever).
Who gets to pick the order of the stack? I thought it was all simaltaneous meaning that it wouldn't work.
I think you're right... however, this doesn't make him a bad card - once you start the Sieve-sac-vault cycle with the Husk in play, you're swinging in for a crap ton of damage each turn...
Also, even if it did work with Open the Vault, it would have summoning sickness anyway. He needs to stay on your board for a turn before he really starts kicking ass.
Okay I just asked over in the rulings thread. It's cool everything works out!
603.6a Enters-the-battlefield abilities trigger when a permanent enters the battlefield. These are written, “When [this object] enters the battlefield, . . . “ or “Whenever a [type] enters the battlefield, . . .” Each time an event puts one or more permanents onto the battlefield, all permanents on the battlefield (including the newcomers) are checked for any enters-the-battlefield triggers that match the event.
Okay I just asked over in the rulings thread. It's cool everything works out!
Because of summoning sickness the point is moot anyway, isn't it? You ain't swinging with him the turn he comes into play even if he does get the bonus.
Oh yes I see what you were getting at earlier. Damn that sucks. The EoT was not sticking in my head I was thinkin' counters. He still works well if you would've hardcasted him and then OPV'd next turn.
I proxied out the deck to test it out and it works pretty well. Only deck that I seem to have problems with is super fast rush decks with pumps. Figure that's why I would need silences to stop them from casting in the beginning of their turn to slow them down.
I'm kinda tempted to try adding Nemesis of Reason, at the very least in the sideboard. Although it's not an artifact, it does have synergy with Jace Beleren's ultimate and would be an alternate win condition in the event of thought hemorrhage. Thoughts?
Private Mod Note
():
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Evil is boring. The universe is friendly. Life is on your side. Joy is your birthright. Cynicism is idiotic. Fear is a bad habit. Despair is lazy. In fact, all of creation wants you to succeed. Act as if the universe is a prodigious miracle created for your amusement and illumination. Assume that secret helpers are working behind the scenes to assist you in turning into the gorgeous masterpiece you were born to be. . . Life always gives you exactly what you need, exactly when you need it.
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More importantly, when you Open the Vaults on your "garbage-2-drop-cantrippers," you get an extra turn with 2-4 extra cards in hand. I have quickly fallen for the deck and if you can survive to t5, it's lights out.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
don't know exact lists tho
and eyes are full of death besides
but luckily the soul is wise -
it sees beyond my blindness and
forced failure makes a better guise,
so as i come again alive,
it feels like life's a decent plan
Bad. I have come ridiculously close to decking myself before and that would just make it happen faster.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
1 Font is fine. Howling Mine effects are really good in this deck, and the Font lets you Time Sieve with 6 artifacts out without wrecking your draw engine. Its not an optimal turn 4 play, but isn't the worst thing in the world.
The only way you can deck yourself with this deck is by not paying attention. Count your library, and sac away the required number of Howling Mine effects so you don't have to keep drawing.
One was 3-0 and later made top 8, other was 2-1, with only loss in mirror:) and didn't make it. the 3-0 lost in the quarters to faeries 0-3.
I believe the deck cannot beat faeries.
I played Kithkin and had Lapse of Certainty for it. In testing Lapse meant that if you draw it you won't lose.
Please explain how a Lapse of Certainty means you cannot lose.
These disruption options win you the mirror, and protect what is otherwise an insanely fragile and expensive combo.
I also think Oblivion ring is needed in the sideboard for Relic of Progenitus, Pithing Needle and random cards like Platinum Angel.
Cryptic Command is better than O-Ring against all of those problem cards.
Here is my list:
5x Swamp
5x Island
3x Plains
4x Mistvein Borderpost
4x Fieldmist Borderpost
4x Elsewhere Flask
2x Kaleidostone
4x Howling Mine
3x Time Sieve
2x Ethersworn Canonist
4x Pollen Lullaby
2x Silence
2x Cryptic Command
2x Jace Beleren
4x Time Warp
4x Open the Vaults
4x Duress
3x Burrenton Forge-Tender
3x Meddling Mage
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Vedalken Outlander
1x Jace Beleren
It tests well against 5cc, Jund, and Kithkin. It's good against Fae g1, and 50/50 g2. It's dead to Elfball 90% of the time. I don't kn ow how to make that matchup better. : /
I would like to get a third Cryptic but I don't feel like buying one so close to the rotation.
I move myself between the sounds,
And open wide to suck it in
I feel it move across my skin,
I'm reaching up and reaching out,
I'm reaching for the random or
Whatever will bewilder me,
Whatever will bewilder me,
And following our will and wind
We may just go where no one's been,
We'll ride the spiral to the end,
And may just go where no one's been.
The reason I like O-Ring is because even if it's destroyed, it comes back with your Vaults.
Also, it stops relics/needles from hitting the bin, and hence stops them coming back with your own vault.
I guess I'm also thinking post rotation...
Silence
For a second there I was like, "awesome that makes so much sense!" then I realized that since it comes into play at the same time as everything else you wouldn't be able to attach it to anything that wasn't already on the board.
Now that said, if they destroyed a Oblivion Ring that was on a Pithing Needle more than likely the needle is still in play and you can just re-target it.
Something to play around with, no doubt.
Glassdust Hulk
Architects of will
The reason I like these cards is that they cantrip for 1, and both serve a purpose after a vault - hulks are an alternative win condition, and the architects sort out the top of your deck ala Top style, which is seems fine, but might be unescessary considering the amount of cards you draw.
What are people's thoughts on these 1 mana cycling creatures?
Current list I'm testing:
3x Mystic Gate
7x Island
2x Plains
1x Mistveil Plains
3x Swamp
4x Fieldmist Borderpost
4x Mistvein Borderpost
Combo (11)
4x Time Sieve
4x Open the Vaults
3x Time warp
4x Howling Mine
4x Kaleidostone
3x Elsewhere flask
Win conditions (6)
2x Jace Beleren
2x Tezzeret the Seeker
2x Glassdusk Hulk
Control (8)
4x Pollen Lyllaby
3x Cryptic Command
1x Oblivion Ring
4x Duress
4x Silence / Thoughtseize
4x Ethersworn Cannonist
3x Oblivion Ring
I think you're right... however, this doesn't make him a bad card - once you start the Sieve-sac-vault cycle with the Husk in play, you're swinging in for a crap ton of damage each turn...
Also, even if it did work with Open the Vault, it would have summoning sickness anyway. He needs to stay on your board for a turn before he really starts kicking ass.
Simple, If I get an average draw, the OTV player needs Cryptic/fog effect every turn since turn 4 or maybe sometimes 5. I counter the fog and win.
Seems naive, but I tested the deck against the guy who went 3-0 previous night and I won every game in which I drew Lapse. I believe we played around 10 games after side and I won 7-8.
Yes it would be able too. O-Ring doesn't target until it is in play. Everything comes in, abilities go on the stack. O-ring is one of those abilities on the stack, it targets their needle (or whatever).
Who gets to pick the order of the stack? I thought it was all simaltaneous meaning that it wouldn't work.
Okay I just asked over in the rulings thread. It's cool everything works out!
Because of summoning sickness the point is moot anyway, isn't it? You ain't swinging with him the turn he comes into play even if he does get the bonus.