Best post on this thread. Both of these cards are awesome and not totally broken. They have chance of coming back. They can be used in both aggro and control decks and aren't bad for combo, either.
White is targeted removal on non-land, non-creature, permanants. They destroy enchantments and artifacts. Simple as that. Killing all your creatures doesn't quite make as much sense in white as it does in black. But, that's just what I think.
Why do you dislike it so much? It might help 5cc, and Fae, but it would also make more viable archetypes.
Blood Moon, more than the Magus, I would want the enchantment. Also in a similar vein I would love to see Bad Moon come back for completely nostalgic reasons :D.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Decks
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite) Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks) Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks) Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
I don't have a problem with Damnation or Wrath of God being in Standard. Both are very balanced, can be used any many decks, but more importantly, can be played around or .
What I hate in Standard are format defining cards that you and everyone else are forced to play to be competitive. Cards that make you say, 'God, I hate that card.'
Umezawa's Jitte is the ultimate example. Sure, cards in the past have been banned because they were enablers for decks so powerful they dominated the meta-game (I.E. Disciple of the Vault), but in my opinion, Jitte is the worst card ever printed.
Not only was Jitte an auto-include in any aggro deck, but all control decks would play it just to effectively remove an opponents Jitte from play. Sure, you could play Shatter or Naturalize, but why, when you could just remove an opponents Jitte with your own, and in best case scenarios, you could play one that your opponent couldn't answer. Games came down to, either getting a Jitte or not, and that made the environment miserable to play.
Personally, I would like to see Sulfuric Vortex return. A damage clock hasn't existed in the game since Jinxed Choker in Mirrodin, and it's an effective but balanced way to deal with decks loaded with lifegain that make tournament games go too long.
I agree with many that Counterspell was a bit too good, but cards like Absorb and Undermine were reasonably priced and because they are two colors, it was difficult for them to be abused across multiple decks.
I highly believe a Blood Moon or Magus of the Moon needs to be in Standard to keep color stretching within a reasonable bounds. There's a reason there are five colors. There needs to be some risk and it shouldn't be so easy to play the whole gamit of colors in the game.
I wouldn't mind seeing blood knight back, just because he's arguably the best two drop ever printed in red. otherwise, I'd love to get wood elves or something that fetches forests. either that, or harrow. I miss having a multi basic searcher in.
White is targeted removal on non-land, non-creature, permanants. They destroy enchantments and artifacts. Simple as that. Killing all your creatures doesn't quite make as much sense in white as it does in black. But, that's just what I think.
White is not the color for targeted removal like that (not since 7th edition, anyway, and not counting the Timeshifted Specials). White is known for its global removal - Armageddon, Wrath of God, and the new Tempest of Light. They switched Disenchant to green and Tranquility to white because it made sense in the color pie's designation for White to be the color of mass removal. If anything, WotC is finally giving White some spot options in the way of Oblivion Ring and Unmake.
We usually talk about what could be reprinted in 11th and what would be good for type 2. Obviously, there are my favorites that i'd like to see return ie. Oath of Druids and Hatred. But lets be honest here.
Here are some cards in the rare slot that it would be nice to see. In the rare slot that is.
Black. This color screams Damnation but i disagree. I think 2 B rare staples should be Nantuko Shade and Mutilate!! Phyrexian Arena deserves to be here too!
Red. At first look we have a card like Earthquake. We however have Pyroclasm. I think the best option for red is clearly Sulfuric Vortex. I'd throw in Wildfire too but that may be reprinted anyways. Urza's Rage maybe?
Green. This is a tough color actually. But creatures fast blah blah. We know the drill. I would like to see Rude Awakening myself but i'll be realistic. Plow Under could be here but i think Spike Weaver would be cool to see in standard. I could see moving Eternal Witness up to the rare slot.
Lands. There is no contest in my book here. Rishadan Port.
I could spend all day here talking about what i'd like to see in standard /base set as far as commons and uncommons. The notables would be.(of the top of my head)
Then only actual things I would disagree with you on, Ryxsyn (besides how hard your name is to spell >.>), are some of the cards you want reprinted have abilities that were only around for that set, or maybe two sets. These types of things aren't going to be reprinted.
So, Wild Mongrel, and Rude Awakening are kind of out. I agree with you on a lot of your other thoughts, but think about what Mox Diamond would do to extended...yeah. Affinity would reign supreme. It would be nasty.
Then only actual things I would disagree with you on, Ryxsyn (besides how hard your name is to spell >.>), are some of the cards you want reprinted have abilities that were only around for that set, or maybe two sets. These types of things aren't going to be reprinted.
So, Wild Mongrel, and Rude Awakening are kind of out. I agree with you on a lot of your other thoughts, but think about what Mox Diamond would do to extended...yeah. Affinity would reign supreme. It would be nasty.
Counterspell just won't happen, ever again. But I will totally back you up on Stone Rain. Rain of Tears was nice and all, but I like my LD nice and red, and cheaper than the red LD we have gotten lately.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Decks
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite) Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks) Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks) Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
I was totally expecting this in Shards of Alara to be honest. It fits Jund theme of destruction, and it seems like the most balanced nonbasic hate, and seems fitting in a format that's quickly becoming basicless.
But I will totally back you up on Stone Rain. Rain of Tears was nice and all, but I like my LD nice and red, and cheaper than the red LD we have gotten lately.
Meh, I hear a lot of people complaining about the lack of Stone Rain, and I think it's based in "If only, then LD would be good!". The point is, it doesn't matter what way it's costed- 3cc LD spells are just not that great in standard right now. We have Rain of Tears and Fulminator (who is better than both most of the time), and we used to have Boom//Bust. And it still didn't see competitive play for the most part. I think that if you can make LD viable, the fixing in standard means that Rain of Tears is just as good. (Cairns ftw)
Cataclysm deserves a look here too.
Because WW needs the help... that will never happen. It's too powerful in standard or extended.
Screw Cloudpost- I want Tron back in standard.
Rishaden Port?! Ryxsyn: Are you crazy? Did you play standard when it was in it? It was completely defined by Port vs Port play, and got really old, really fast.
Wildfire seems really strong as a reprint- it's a card like Ultimatum, that wins the game, but it's a 6cc sorcery.
Among a bunch of other "That will never happen- broken", I do like the thought of Simulacrum. He's probably a little overpowered, but so is every other good, non-broken card.
Witness would be replacing Recollect in 11th- which is fine by me- and I think would help keep Green on par with the other colors. (don't bother making it rare- it just makes people angry :P)
It just made sense. It created a very control oriented meta, which would be awesome right now, to slow down a lot of the aggro decks that explode during turns 2 through 5.
That's just what I think.
It's also the exact same reason Wizards made Lorwyn the way it is, fast-paced and hard for control to handle. So Damnation was the problem, not the solution.
GB Elves <-man I hate this deck, it has a 50/50 matchup against Tier 1/2 but loses to jank aggro most of the time. UB Faeries <-only reason it's good is because of all those people that's still playing 5CC. WB Tokens <-so boring, there's only 2 ways to play this deck. RB Blightning <-Autopilotting you to victory 0-2 drop.
???B Super Secret Tech <-dude, this thing is nuts! 90/10 against all matchups.
Talon of Pain
I would really like a non-red source to kill those pesky Forge Tenders.
WOW that's a really random choice. How about Ghostfire if you're worried about BFT?
I'd like to see a lot of mono-black cards, obviously. Arena, Mutilate, and Night of Soul's Betrayal aren't really too much to ask for. Dark Ritual probably would be asking too much.
Ya know, I'd like Eradicate to come back. It was so much fun in my Mono-Black Deck-Gutter deck (casual, could have been extended playable based on what was in it - except the Dark Rituals of course :cool:).
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite) Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks) Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks) Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
Vindicate. It answers the "how do we remove Planeswalkers?" dilemma and is a sweet card overall.
What dilemma? Every color has a dozen answers to planeswalkers in Shards of Alara alone. Or are you the guy from my Lorwyn pre-release who didn't realize that creatures can attack planeswalkers, even though it explicitly said so on the rules insert?
Best post on this thread. Both of these cards are awesome and not totally broken. They have chance of coming back. They can be used in both aggro and control decks and aren't bad for combo, either.
My choices (one for each color/artifact/land):
Land: Time Spiral storage lands (eg., Calciform Pool)
Artifact: Scroll Rack (probably too good)
White: Mother of Runes
Blue: Dismiss
Black: Phyrexian Arena or Night's Whisper
Red: Fire Imp or Starstorm
Green: Eternal Witness or Sakura-Tribe Elder
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Because it makes more sense than Wrath of God.
White is targeted removal on non-land, non-creature, permanants. They destroy enchantments and artifacts. Simple as that. Killing all your creatures doesn't quite make as much sense in white as it does in black. But, that's just what I think.
Why do you dislike it so much? It might help 5cc, and Fae, but it would also make more viable archetypes.
Thanks to spiderboy4 of High~Light Studios for the awesome banner and avatar!
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite)
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks)
Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks)
Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
Standard
Waiting for Innistrad...
Extended
Hah!
Modern
Living End Cascade (RGB)
Legacy
Burn
Vintage
None
Casual
WB Aggro-Control
Green Stompy
Pink Floyd (UWr Wall Control)
Lunch Box (Fatty ramp)
D-Bag (White Control)
Level 13 Task Mage
What I hate in Standard are format defining cards that you and everyone else are forced to play to be competitive. Cards that make you say, 'God, I hate that card.'
Umezawa's Jitte is the ultimate example. Sure, cards in the past have been banned because they were enablers for decks so powerful they dominated the meta-game (I.E. Disciple of the Vault), but in my opinion, Jitte is the worst card ever printed.
Not only was Jitte an auto-include in any aggro deck, but all control decks would play it just to effectively remove an opponents Jitte from play. Sure, you could play Shatter or Naturalize, but why, when you could just remove an opponents Jitte with your own, and in best case scenarios, you could play one that your opponent couldn't answer. Games came down to, either getting a Jitte or not, and that made the environment miserable to play.
Personally, I would like to see Sulfuric Vortex return. A damage clock hasn't existed in the game since Jinxed Choker in Mirrodin, and it's an effective but balanced way to deal with decks loaded with lifegain that make tournament games go too long.
I agree with many that Counterspell was a bit too good, but cards like Absorb and Undermine were reasonably priced and because they are two colors, it was difficult for them to be abused across multiple decks.
I highly believe a Blood Moon or Magus of the Moon needs to be in Standard to keep color stretching within a reasonable bounds. There's a reason there are five colors. There needs to be some risk and it shouldn't be so easy to play the whole gamit of colors in the game.
Art Page
Alters for sale
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
White is not the color for targeted removal like that (not since 7th edition, anyway, and not counting the Timeshifted Specials). White is known for its global removal - Armageddon, Wrath of God, and the new Tempest of Light. They switched Disenchant to green and Tranquility to white because it made sense in the color pie's designation for White to be the color of mass removal. If anything, WotC is finally giving White some spot options in the way of Oblivion Ring and Unmake.
Anyway, if I had to choose a card or two, it'd be Phyrexian Arena and Mana Leak.
Signature from Nakamura and Heroes of the Planes Studios.
MAFIA STATS
Scum
Basic 17 (Afterlife) - lose
Basic 15 (Coffeehouse) - win
Duel Monsters - lose
Manipulator - lose
Town
Anita Blake - lose
Basic 17 (Demonata) - lose
Canada - ongoing
Ongoing
Basic 24
Here are some cards in the rare slot that it would be nice to see. In the rare slot that is.
White. We all would like to see Akroma, Angel of Wrath but for the base set? No. What about Exalted Angel? Morph may not get it. So what do we have?
How about Pristine Angel? Cataclysm deserves a look here too.
Blue. This one is vast (like any of them are not.) But honestly, why not Morphling? What about Intuition or Tradewind Rider?
Black. This color screams Damnation but i disagree. I think 2 B rare staples should be Nantuko Shade and Mutilate!! Phyrexian Arena deserves to be here too!
Red. At first look we have a card like Earthquake. We however have Pyroclasm. I think the best option for red is clearly Sulfuric Vortex. I'd throw in Wildfire too but that may be reprinted anyways. Urza's Rage maybe?
Green. This is a tough color actually. But creatures fast blah blah. We know the drill. I would like to see Rude Awakening myself but i'll be realistic. Plow Under could be here but i think Spike Weaver would be cool to see in standard. I could see moving Eternal Witness up to the rare slot.
Lands. There is no contest in my book here. Rishadan Port.
Artifact. There are 3 any deck cards. Mox Diamond (i know you're initial thought, but think about it for a min.) Solemn Simulacrum and Cursed Scroll. Oblivion Stone and Nevinyrral's Disk could be interesting here too!
I could spend all day here talking about what i'd like to see in standard /base set as far as commons and uncommons. The notables would be.(of the top of my head)
White. Circle of Protection: Red
Blue. Mana Leak Hinder
Black. Mind Sludge
Red. Fireblast Stone Rain
Green. Wild Mongrel Worldly Tutor
Land. Ghost Quarter Cloudpost
Artifact. Guardian Idol. I'd like to see Pentad Prism but the sunburst would not make it to a core set..so,Wayfarer's Bauble
hatred
I will flay the skin from your flesh,
the flesh from your bones,
and scrape your bones dry,
and still you will not have suffered enough!
Quote the Ryxsyn;
NeVeRMoRe!
You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain!
-Harvey Dent
If not for PoP, how about Ruination, Back to Basics, or even Destructive Flow? Standard has no good nonbasic hoser right now.
We don't even have ****ing Stone Rain in Type 2 despite it being in the core sets for YEARS. How sad.
So, Wild Mongrel, and Rude Awakening are kind of out. I agree with you on a lot of your other thoughts, but think about what Mox Diamond would do to extended...yeah. Affinity would reign supreme. It would be nasty.
EDIT: Give me Stone Rain and Counterspell and I'll be a happy boy.
Thanks to spiderboy4 of High~Light Studios for the awesome banner and avatar!
Counterspell just won't happen, ever again. But I will totally back you up on Stone Rain. Rain of Tears was nice and all, but I like my LD nice and red, and cheaper than the red LD we have gotten lately.
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite)
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks)
Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks)
Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
Standard
Waiting for Innistrad...
Extended
Hah!
Modern
Living End Cascade (RGB)
Legacy
Burn
Vintage
None
Casual
WB Aggro-Control
Green Stompy
Pink Floyd (UWr Wall Control)
Lunch Box (Fatty ramp)
D-Bag (White Control)
Level 13 Task Mage
I was totally expecting this in Shards of Alara to be honest. It fits Jund theme of destruction, and it seems like the most balanced nonbasic hate, and seems fitting in a format that's quickly becoming basicless.
Meh, I hear a lot of people complaining about the lack of Stone Rain, and I think it's based in "If only, then LD would be good!". The point is, it doesn't matter what way it's costed- 3cc LD spells are just not that great in standard right now. We have Rain of Tears and Fulminator (who is better than both most of the time), and we used to have Boom//Bust. And it still didn't see competitive play for the most part. I think that if you can make LD viable, the fixing in standard means that Rain of Tears is just as good. (Cairns ftw)
Because WW needs the help... that will never happen. It's too powerful in standard or extended.
Screw Cloudpost- I want Tron back in standard.
Rishaden Port?! Ryxsyn: Are you crazy? Did you play standard when it was in it? It was completely defined by Port vs Port play, and got really old, really fast.
Wildfire seems really strong as a reprint- it's a card like Ultimatum, that wins the game, but it's a 6cc sorcery.
Among a bunch of other "That will never happen- broken", I do like the thought of Simulacrum. He's probably a little overpowered, but so is every other good, non-broken card.
Witness would be replacing Recollect in 11th- which is fine by me- and I think would help keep Green on par with the other colors. (don't bother making it rare- it just makes people angry :P)
Art Page
Alters for sale
It's also the exact same reason Wizards made Lorwyn the way it is, fast-paced and hard for control to handle. So Damnation was the problem, not the solution.
GB Elves <-man I hate this deck, it has a 50/50 matchup against Tier 1/2 but loses to jank aggro most of the time.
UB Faeries <-only reason it's good is because of all those people that's still playing 5CC.
WB Tokens <-so boring, there's only 2 ways to play this deck.
RB Blightning <-Autopilotting you to
victory0-2 drop.???B Super Secret Tech <-dude, this thing is nuts! 90/10 against all matchups.
WOW that's a really random choice. How about Ghostfire if you're worried about BFT?
I'd like to see a lot of mono-black cards, obviously. Arena, Mutilate, and Night of Soul's Betrayal aren't really too much to ask for. Dark Ritual probably would be asking too much.
Akuma will wreck you.
Ghost Quarter seems reasonable; I want Phyrexian Arena so bad.
Eternal Witness would be pretty nifty, but not as likely I think.
I really miss GQ as well.
Dark Confidant
Duress
Eternal Witness
Commander
Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite)
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks)
Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks)
Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
Standard
Waiting for Innistrad...
Extended
Hah!
Modern
Living End Cascade (RGB)
Legacy
Burn
Vintage
None
Casual
WB Aggro-Control
Green Stompy
Pink Floyd (UWr Wall Control)
Lunch Box (Fatty ramp)
D-Bag (White Control)
Level 13 Task Mage
What dilemma? Every color has a dozen answers to planeswalkers in Shards of Alara alone. Or are you the guy from my Lorwyn pre-release who didn't realize that creatures can attack planeswalkers, even though it explicitly said so on the rules insert?