Anyway, how does this deck win? I can see a basic strategy of "lots of mana" into "big creatures," but the mana-ramping part just doesn't seem sufficient and/or consistent enough.
It also won States in Minnesota. From what I have seen, the deck accels really fast to drop big stuff. It plays Garruk and Siege Gang and wall to stop aggro and late game the deck stocks up on mana with the storage lands, and uses it to burn for a lot. Personally I don't think the deck is that great, but that's me.
Personally I find this to be the most fun deck to play in type 2 right now, so I'm working on making it better.
The problem I had with the Krakow list is that is struggled to keep the threats coming. With only 4 Harmonize, it was too easy to run out of gas. Even with the Harmonize, I found myself drawing cards that were lands or got me lands. This lead me to a blue splash.
The blue splash allows Aeon Chronicler to be in the deck, which is a huge boon. Suspending it for 3 or more prevents you from running out of steam in an attrition war. I didn't feel 4 card draw spells were enough, so I also added Foresee. Rather than what Harmonize does, Foresee allows you to draw what you want to. Throw those lands and mana cards to the bottom, and keep drawing threats.
The second problem that I noticed is a huge weakness to the blue based control decks, be it pickles or MUC. I decided to revamp the creature base to include some goodies for those decks. First, I took out Siege-Gang. It was weak in the format stuffed full of removal, as it basically made three 1/1s for five mana. I took it out to add four copies of Quagnoth. I've always loved this guy, and this is the perfect format to play him in. It can come out as early as turn 4, and it's nearly impossible to deal with. It also greatly helps the random rack matchups you might encounter.
Finally, I went up to 3 Molten Disaster in the main. It can wrath aggro early, and it's another unstoppable finisher against control.
the gp krakow list is amazingly consistant
iv been testing it and i like it
just my kind of deck
so i dont like another splash (not that its hard to support) but i feel that it takes something away but why not ill test it but im keeping seige-gang commander
i love quagnoth been playing him since i build WGrb snow (amazing) and well he'll find his place
btw quagnoth nearly auto wins the pickles match (if you get him early)
and fertile ground+garruk=enough mana to play anything
Private Mod Note
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“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.“
Personally I find this to be the most fun deck to play in type 2 right now, so I'm working on making it better.
The problem I had with the Krakow list is that is struggled to keep the threats coming. With only 4 Harmonize, it was too easy to run out of gas. Even with the Harmonize, I found myself drawing cards that were lands or got me lands. This lead me to a blue splash.
The blue splash allows Aeon Chronicler to be in the deck, which is a huge boon. Suspending it for 3 or more prevents you from running out of steam in an attrition war. I didn't feel 4 card draw spells were enough, so I also added Foresee. Rather than what Harmonize does, Foresee allows you to draw what you want to. Throw those lands and mana cards to the bottom, and keep drawing threats.
The second problem that I noticed is a huge weakness to the blue based control decks, be it pickles or MUC. I decided to revamp the creature base to include some goodies for those decks. First, I took out Siege-Gang. It was weak in the format stuffed full of removal, as it basically made three 1/1s for five mana. I took it out to add four copies of Quagnoth. I've always loved this guy, and this is the perfect format to play him in. It can come out as early as turn 4, and it's nearly impossible to deal with. It also greatly helps the random rack matchups you might encounter.
Finally, I went up to 3 Molten Disaster in the main. It can wrath aggro early, and it's another unstoppable finisher against control.
The deck is testing well against a lot of the top decks, with Quagnoth being the MVP.
treetop village > llanowar reborn here
and wheres terramorphic expanse??
drop 1 disaster for 1 disentegrate. because you'll often find yourself short on life against control after they have been using triskelavus or beating you with their beats.
the blue splash is an interesting idea but is it the best route?? i like the idea of harmonize + chronicler + forsee, but what about tidings and the multitude of other draw spells:
the gp krakow list is amazingly consistant
iv been testing it and i like it
just my kind of deck
so i dont like another splash (not that its hard to support) but i feel that it takes something away but why not ill test it but im keeping seige-gang commander
i love quagnoth been playing him since i build WGrb snow (amazing) and well he'll find his place
btw quagnoth nearly auto wins the pickles match (if you get him early)
and fertile ground+garruk=enough mana to play anything
siege-gang seems a bit on the low end to me.. it could use more gobbos but i definately feel like there are better choices.
i like the syngergy between fertile ground a garruk.
The deck is testing well against a lot of the top decks, with Quagnoth being the MVP.
I'm sorry, but I'm gonna have to say that this deck is more or less still going to need to use tarmogoyf. He's too efficient not to be in here, quagnoth is a beast against any sort of control, no doubt, but he has no evasion and when he gets deathtouched or double blocked, or even single blocked by goofy, he's dead. And he was probably your only real play that turn. Not fun against aggro...
A splash for Aeon Chronicler and Foresee is a great idea though, since chronic is also a creature. My only beef is that he probably won't stay big, and you may not need the splash. Horizion Canopy can also be a really good solution for this deck as long as you don't enchant it.
Buuuuttt....
Since you are splashing, I know a guy that might want in on the action... He's pretty shifty though, so watch your back.
Hah. This deck reminds me of Wildfire from last standard season with 9th. It evoked the same reaction too "How does this deck win?" But at the same time, if you just play with it you understand how it works and wins.
Ok I just tested this deck and while it ramps into huge creatures and the awesome Hellkites it just gets ran over by Kavu Justice, Korlash Control, U/B Teachings, B/u/w Mannequin, Pickles, and the last deck I tested this against.... MUC.
So my overall opinion on this deck is... HUH?
Seriously there are better decks that have a greater overall standing verse wider deck varieties this deck has too many bad match-ups and is easily controlled the hardest thing to get rid of is the Quagnoth which still dies too easily.
I think I'm overthinking this deck.....
How does it work? Is it just "mana mana mana mana spellspellspellspelllspell and so forth" ?
Yes that is exactly how it works! Except that it plays out bogardan Hellkite on turn 5!
I'm personally wondering...If you bring it down to 2 colors again, could you add desert and then bring in Magus of the candelabra for more land untapping synergy? Even Keldon Megaliths could find a home maybe?
Now, this might not be some fancy pantsy version like the one with blue, but I'll tell you what, I have had a pretty high success rate with it.
Deck Detail:
I'll be taking a bit out of what Kyle Sanchez said in his article, but because he isn't me...well Take my word for it. ( Along with everything else I've said)
T3H b33f;
Now I know my online "cool" antics won't amaze you, but listen here.
Bogardan HellKite: Possible win condition, Board Saver, he is everything the republicans want!
Cloudthresher; What I like about this card is, its versitile, it is on edge and always ready for action! The fact that like hellkite, he has flash, and is a 7/7 to boot! helps versus any deck with fliers.
Siege-Gang Commander; He leads our troops into war for victory! seeing how aggressive decks are all the crazy, he allows our army to become air defencive, and suicide bombers when it comes down to it...what ever it takes to win.
The Support;
Wall of Roots; Allows you to accelerate
Tarmogoyf; Whats great about him is, you don't need him, but your opponents do not know that. A lot of their time will be taken from their victory strategy to getting rid of him, and allows you to build up card advantage, if not Mana!
Harmonize: Drawing, in any deck is important. What?
Search for Tomorrow/Fertile Ground; Doesn't even need an answer
Garruk; He is everything you can ask for, helps with mana, stall with creautures, or make them all get +3+3 trample and alpha strike.
The Commands and Disaster:
Primal Command: This is probably the most useful out of all of them In my opinion(Too cool to use IMO) +7 life, gets a creature, bounces any non creature (I'm Looking at you mesa) or Shuffles your grave to refuel your deck
Molten Disaster: This is the nuke of all nukes. Basically, think of Hiroshima, where...well...you get the point.
Profane Command: What I like about this one also, after a disaster, and your opponent is out of resources, that will most likely win the game for you. Loses life, Reanimates, gains your ground troops fear, or kills stuffy Doll.
Sideboard:
Extirpate: Now I know what your thinking Nation. Where is the graveyard decks that matter. Well I will tell you. The U/B tempo deck, Mannequin, relies off the graveyard to succeed! Well...Not entirely, but annoying enough after you get rid of their men. Other than that, after a disaster for 4 and you pickles player loses a shape shifter or 2, riding him of those only allowing a few other creatures is pretty good.
Detritivore: We Don't Like your Non-Basics that much.
Boom/Bust: We Don't Like control much.
Pyroclasm: This card has yet again proven itself. Dealing two damage to everything, flying or not, it will wipe boards, and help you out.
Seal of Prim: Now, Again Nation, I know what your thinking, what enchatments or artifacts would I like to get rid of? Well, its not really the artifacts that matter. Now. Nation. White is still out there, and so is Sacred Mesa. Prim it then Disaster the board. (Leaves that smell of satisfaction)
Ancient Grudge: WarHammer, Relic, anything you do not like.
Now Match ups.
I have tested versus anyone, and anything, noobs through good.
MUC: Its a really hardmatch up to decided on. But, you can pull it off. Split Second is really important in this and so is building up mana. Be careful of Cryptic Command on your Fertile Ground Lands!
Pickles: Same as mono blue, As long as you time your plays right, and don't cast anything too early, your fine. What I failed to put is, always try to trick your opponents into tapping out for teferi. Hellkite and Cloud will love you for ever.
Snow-Red: Or how I would like to call it. Bloody Arctic Tampon, is also a difficult match up, but that is why we have profane command. TAKE THAT DOLL FACE!
Life Varients: Also in your favor. They cannot race you, you have this in the bag.
Land Destruction: Listen. We all have weakness' who remembers that German Sea Fortress?
G/B discard: Be very careful here. You want to hold back as much as you can. Try to get an early tarmogoyf out. But not very many people play this deck as much.
how bout 1xpanglacial wurm with the shuffle effects, jic u topdeck a random search for tomorrow late game
hmm maybe one, or two MAX. Its more of a later game, type of, after you just cleared the board threat if anything. Against control your opponent will just Sower it. even then Shape Shifter will clone it and you will have a hard time versus it.
Against aggro maybe. If anything you could put it sideboard replacing taking out seal's or pyros on your comfertability.
Honestly, I do not like it that much because like most things can die easily. ***, Damn, Shriekmaw, Slaughter Pact, Cryptic Command can just bounce it, and pickles lock, and I mean, it comes down to a number of things.
I think what it comes down to is, rather than suggesting it. Try it. Because if you do not try it. Then Suggesting is just a useful as sending troops into a terrorist camp, with no proper equipment.
Ok. I just read Mr. Flores' article containing this deck and i get it now. I also LIKE it now.
Two things:
#1, i think "stephen" went a little overboard. Plz don't pretend to be the real colbert. It insults him (c'mon, man! He's losing votes! lol) [btw, colbert for president]
#2, i like Mike Flores' name for the deck, "Big Red Green". It just sounds beefy, which is exactly what the deck is.
AND... my opinions on the deck: it should be two color, and it should have 4 maindeck harmonize. ... that's pretty much it. I'm a n00b to teh standard. (i haven't played in about 6 months) But i'm getting back into it.
Is there any specific reason as to why he doesnt play Birds? Seems like they would fit perfectly in this deck and usually people wont bother removing them anyway. And if they do, it could turn out to your advantage as they might not have removal for the big threats later on.
Ok I just tested this deck and while it ramps into huge creatures and the awesome Hellkites it just gets ran over by Kavu Justice, Korlash Control, U/B Teachings, B/u/w Mannequin, Pickles, and the last deck I tested this against.... MUC.
So my overall opinion on this deck is... HUH?
Seriously there are better decks that have a greater overall standing verse wider deck varieties this deck has too many bad match-ups and is easily controlled the hardest thing to get rid of is the Quagnoth which still dies too easily.
yeah thats why i suggested things like gaea's herald and even eyes of the wisent. you will get RAPED by anthing that has counters....
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Karplusan Forest
5 Mountain
1 Pendelhaven
4 Treetop Village
2 Urza's Factory
3 Bogardan Hellkite
2 Cloudthresher
1 Hostility
4 Siege-Gang Commander
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Wall of Roots
3 Fertile Ground
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Harmonize
4 Incinerate
1 Molten Disaster
4 Search for Tomorrow
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Detritivore
2 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Molten Disaster
4 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
1 Seal of Primordium
2 Sulfurous Blast
My List
3rd Place - New Mexico
Main Deck
60 cards
3 Forest
3 Fungal Reaches
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Island
4 Karplusan Forest
3 Mountain
3 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Urza's Factory
22 lands
3 Aeon Chronicler
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Cloudthresher
3 Hostility
4 Wall of Roots
2 Disintegrate
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Harmonize
4 Incinerate
2 Molten Disaster
2 Pyroclasm
3 Search for Tomorrow
1 Sprout Swarm
20 other spells
1 Aeon Chronicler
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Detritivore
4 Dodecapod
3 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroclasm
15 sideboard cards
This is my Friends build of it
I don't like spam. Its not good. Infraction issued.
-Iceman8352
Credit given to this dude High~Light Studios
Check out my h/w list
Currently Playing
The Rock GB
Doran Beats GBW
RGb BIG Mana GRB
RG Warriors GR
Artist Strikes Fish
Credit given to this dude High~Light Studios
Check out my h/w list
Currently Playing
The Rock GB
Doran Beats GBW
RGb BIG Mana GRB
RG Warriors GR
from what i hear its a pretty fun deck to play. i think it needs gaea's herald SB to stop some of the counters.
The problem I had with the Krakow list is that is struggled to keep the threats coming. With only 4 Harmonize, it was too easy to run out of gas. Even with the Harmonize, I found myself drawing cards that were lands or got me lands. This lead me to a blue splash.
The blue splash allows Aeon Chronicler to be in the deck, which is a huge boon. Suspending it for 3 or more prevents you from running out of steam in an attrition war. I didn't feel 4 card draw spells were enough, so I also added Foresee. Rather than what Harmonize does, Foresee allows you to draw what you want to. Throw those lands and mana cards to the bottom, and keep drawing threats.
The second problem that I noticed is a huge weakness to the blue based control decks, be it pickles or MUC. I decided to revamp the creature base to include some goodies for those decks. First, I took out Siege-Gang. It was weak in the format stuffed full of removal, as it basically made three 1/1s for five mana. I took it out to add four copies of Quagnoth. I've always loved this guy, and this is the perfect format to play him in. It can come out as early as turn 4, and it's nearly impossible to deal with. It also greatly helps the random rack matchups you might encounter.
Finally, I went up to 3 Molten Disaster in the main. It can wrath aggro early, and it's another unstoppable finisher against control.
My current list looks like this:
5 Mountain
4 Karplusan Forest
2 Urza's Factory
4 Forest
2 Island
2 Yavimaya Coast
4 Llanowar Reborn
Creatures
4 Wall of Roots
3 Bogardan Hellkite
4 Quagnoth
4 Aeon Chronicler
2 Cloudthresher
2 Akroma, Angel of Fury
4 Search for Tomorrow
4 Fertile Ground
3 Molten Disaster
4 Foresee
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Molten Disaster
3 Seal of Primordium
3 Detritivore
4 Riftsweeper
4 Pyroclasm
The deck is testing well against a lot of the top decks, with Quagnoth being the MVP.
iv been testing it and i like it
just my kind of deck
so i dont like another splash (not that its hard to support) but i feel that it takes something away but why not ill test it but im keeping seige-gang commander
i love quagnoth been playing him since i build WGrb snow (amazing) and well he'll find his place
btw quagnoth nearly auto wins the pickles match (if you get him early)
and fertile ground+garruk=enough mana to play anything
However, I don't think that this deck is very good in the current metagame. It's not a bad deck, but it doesn't seem like the best choice.
My List
treetop village > llanowar reborn here
and wheres terramorphic expanse??
drop 1 disaster for 1 disentegrate. because you'll often find yourself short on life against control after they have been using triskelavus or beating you with their beats.
the blue splash is an interesting idea but is it the best route?? i like the idea of harmonize + chronicler + forsee, but what about tidings and the multitude of other draw spells:
and quagnoth?? really?? there isn't any better?
oh and the reason they reprinted siege-gang is because T2 lost skeletal vampire.
siege-gang seems a bit on the low end to me.. it could use more gobbos but i definately feel like there are better choices.
i like the syngergy between fertile ground a garruk.
I'm sorry, but I'm gonna have to say that this deck is more or less still going to need to use tarmogoyf. He's too efficient not to be in here, quagnoth is a beast against any sort of control, no doubt, but he has no evasion and when he gets deathtouched or double blocked, or even single blocked by goofy, he's dead. And he was probably your only real play that turn. Not fun against aggro...
A splash for Aeon Chronicler and Foresee is a great idea though, since chronic is also a creature. My only beef is that he probably won't stay big, and you may not need the splash. Horizion Canopy can also be a really good solution for this deck as long as you don't enchant it.
Buuuuttt....
Since you are splashing, I know a guy that might want in on the action... He's pretty shifty though, so watch your back.
haha.. as soon as you put him in you need to play some drifters too.
Trade thread!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=556274
or
http://darjarri.com
So my overall opinion on this deck is... HUH?
Seriously there are better decks that have a greater overall standing verse wider deck varieties this deck has too many bad match-ups and is easily controlled the hardest thing to get rid of is the Quagnoth which still dies too easily.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5401186#post5401186
How does it work? Is it just "mana mana mana mana spellspellspellspelllspell and so forth" ?
Modern: GGG Combo Elves
EDH: GW Rhys, the Redeemed
Yes that is exactly how it works! Except that it plays out bogardan Hellkite on turn 5!
I'm personally wondering...If you bring it down to 2 colors again, could you add desert and then bring in Magus of the candelabra for more land untapping synergy? Even Keldon Megaliths could find a home maybe?
Sig by the Great R&Doom!
5 [MR] Mountain (2)
6 [MR] Forest (1)
2 [7E] Karplusan Forest
4 [UL] Treetop Village
2 [TSP] Urza's Factory
2 [MR] Swamp (2)
2 [AP] Llanowar Wastes
// Creatures
3 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
3 [SC] Siege-Gang Commander
3 [LOR] Cloudthresher
3 [TSP] Bogardan Hellkite
4 [TSB] Wall of Roots
3 [FUT] Molten Disaster
3 [LOR] Primal Command
3 [TSP] Search for Tomorrow
3 [PLC] Harmonize
4 [IN] Fertile Ground
3 [LOR] Garruk Wildspeaker
2 [LOR] Profane Command
Now, this might not be some fancy pantsy version like the one with blue, but I'll tell you what, I have had a pretty high success rate with it.
Deck Detail:
I'll be taking a bit out of what Kyle Sanchez said in his article, but because he isn't me...well Take my word for it. ( Along with everything else I've said)
T3H b33f;
Now I know my online "cool" antics won't amaze you, but listen here.
Bogardan HellKite: Possible win condition, Board Saver, he is everything the republicans want!
Cloudthresher; What I like about this card is, its versitile, it is on edge and always ready for action! The fact that like hellkite, he has flash, and is a 7/7 to boot! helps versus any deck with fliers.
Siege-Gang Commander; He leads our troops into war for victory! seeing how aggressive decks are all the crazy, he allows our army to become air defencive, and suicide bombers when it comes down to it...what ever it takes to win.
The Support;
Wall of Roots; Allows you to accelerate
Tarmogoyf; Whats great about him is, you don't need him, but your opponents do not know that. A lot of their time will be taken from their victory strategy to getting rid of him, and allows you to build up card advantage, if not Mana!
Harmonize: Drawing, in any deck is important. What?
Search for Tomorrow/Fertile Ground; Doesn't even need an answer
Garruk; He is everything you can ask for, helps with mana, stall with creautures, or make them all get +3+3 trample and alpha strike.
The Commands and Disaster:
Primal Command: This is probably the most useful out of all of them In my opinion(Too cool to use IMO) +7 life, gets a creature, bounces any non creature (I'm Looking at you mesa) or Shuffles your grave to refuel your deck
Molten Disaster: This is the nuke of all nukes. Basically, think of Hiroshima, where...well...you get the point.
Profane Command: What I like about this one also, after a disaster, and your opponent is out of resources, that will most likely win the game for you. Loses life, Reanimates, gains your ground troops fear, or kills stuffy Doll.
Sideboard:
Extirpate: Now I know what your thinking Nation. Where is the graveyard decks that matter. Well I will tell you. The U/B tempo deck, Mannequin, relies off the graveyard to succeed! Well...Not entirely, but annoying enough after you get rid of their men. Other than that, after a disaster for 4 and you pickles player loses a shape shifter or 2, riding him of those only allowing a few other creatures is pretty good.
Detritivore: We Don't Like your Non-Basics that much.
Boom/Bust: We Don't Like control much.
Pyroclasm: This card has yet again proven itself. Dealing two damage to everything, flying or not, it will wipe boards, and help you out.
Seal of Prim: Now, Again Nation, I know what your thinking, what enchatments or artifacts would I like to get rid of? Well, its not really the artifacts that matter. Now. Nation. White is still out there, and so is Sacred Mesa. Prim it then Disaster the board. (Leaves that smell of satisfaction)
Ancient Grudge: WarHammer, Relic, anything you do not like.
Now Match ups.
I have tested versus anyone, and anything, noobs through good.
MUC: Its a really hardmatch up to decided on. But, you can pull it off. Split Second is really important in this and so is building up mana. Be careful of Cryptic Command on your Fertile Ground Lands!
Pickles: Same as mono blue, As long as you time your plays right, and don't cast anything too early, your fine. What I failed to put is, always try to trick your opponents into tapping out for teferi. Hellkite and Cloud will love you for ever.
Snow-Red: Or how I would like to call it. Bloody Arctic Tampon, is also a difficult match up, but that is why we have profane command. TAKE THAT DOLL FACE!
Life Varients: Also in your favor. They cannot race you, you have this in the bag.
Land Destruction: Listen. We all have weakness' who remembers that German Sea Fortress?
G/B discard: Be very careful here. You want to hold back as much as you can. Try to get an early tarmogoyf out. But not very many people play this deck as much.
Rogue: You win. Do not worry.
And that nation. Is the Word
hmm maybe one, or two MAX. Its more of a later game, type of, after you just cleared the board threat if anything. Against control your opponent will just Sower it. even then Shape Shifter will clone it and you will have a hard time versus it.
Against aggro maybe. If anything you could put it sideboard replacing taking out seal's or pyros on your comfertability.
Honestly, I do not like it that much because like most things can die easily. ***, Damn, Shriekmaw, Slaughter Pact, Cryptic Command can just bounce it, and pickles lock, and I mean, it comes down to a number of things.
I think what it comes down to is, rather than suggesting it. Try it. Because if you do not try it. Then Suggesting is just a useful as sending troops into a terrorist camp, with no proper equipment.
I been testing coalation relic and splashing a couple islands for aeon chronicler, and i must say it works wonders in this deck.
Two things:
#1, i think "stephen" went a little overboard. Plz don't pretend to be the real colbert. It insults him (c'mon, man! He's losing votes! lol) [btw, colbert for president]
#2, i like Mike Flores' name for the deck, "Big Red Green". It just sounds beefy, which is exactly what the deck is.
AND... my opinions on the deck: it should be two color, and it should have 4 maindeck harmonize. ... that's pretty much it. I'm a n00b to teh standard. (i haven't played in about 6 months) But i'm getting back into it.
Modern: GGG Combo Elves
EDH: GW Rhys, the Redeemed
cloudthesher kills BoP...
yeah thats why i suggested things like gaea's herald and even eyes of the wisent. you will get RAPED by anthing that has counters....
yeah uhhh. you need to play more 4-ofs. 4s and 1s are better then 3s and 2s. meaning CONSISTENCY WINS
and stop being a colbert-wannabe... i mean all of america already is but this a bit overboard.
nice job. yeah i'll bet chornicler with some more draw like forsee is better then straight-up GR.